Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I think he's done a great job this season, the reason he's over played certain players is because he knows their replacements aren't up to scratch. The drop off from Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro to anything including Fred and McT is too much. Can't say I blame him for not wanting to look at either or those two clowns in midfield.

He's inherited a woeful collection of footballers, the technical levels just aren't high enough, not enough players who are comfortable and good on the ball. He's had to compromise by sitting deeper and trying to hit teams on the break. This is not his style, but it's probably the best he can do with this group of players. Eriksen, Martinez and Antony are all very technical footballers used to playing a certain way, but they aren't enough. He needs another window or two to get rid of the dross and bring 6 or 7 players with better technical levels on the ball to impose his style.
 
I just can’t understand why anyone can look at how the game is going and thinking that Sabitzer, Sancho and Weghorst is the answer. We just asked to get dominated even more with those subs.

Several players are just coming back from injury.
 
The summer is going to be make or break. We look a long way off it at the moment.

We’re tired, sure. But the only way to avoid matches is to get knocked out of Europe and domestic cups asap, which of course we don’t want to do. We’re always going to have a heavy schedule. EtH needs to solve that problem this summer.

I like him. I think he could be a great manager. He has to turn us into certain Top 4 material (not scraping about for wins with five games to go) otherwise we will struggle to recruit.

It will be tough to do it in one window but he has to. We could easily be overtaken by Liverpool and Chelsea next year. Newcastle look here to stay. If we finish fifth (let’s face it, even 6th or 7th wouldn’t be a shock), he will be fired. Brutal, crazy, whatever, he has one more season to pull it together which really means one transfer window.
 
Weghorst is awful. Every minute he spends on the pitch between now and the end of the season reduces our chances of finishing top 4. It's like being down to 10 men when he comes on.

And if another person mentions his "workrate" and "pressing" I think I'm gonna puke! Sure, he runs around after defenders like a blue arsed fly, but he's too slow to be an effective presser, he can't put pressure on anyone!!

So he can't score, can't run, can't press, can't hold up the ball, doesn't win headers even though he's 7'6....... so what exactly does ETH thinks he brings to the team?! His continued persistence with him is now bordering on gross negligence.
 
I'm a massive fan of Erik - but I feel his in-gaming management in recent weeks has been dreadful. Today was a prime example. 5 minutes into the second half it was obvious that we were about to get utterly shat upon in terms of energy levels and in terms of possession. 10 minutes go by, and nothing is being changed - Brighton slice through us like butter and we can barely keep the ball for more than 12 seconds. Granted, we only lost via a penalty in the 97th minute but I think he's so slow to make a tweak.

Far too slow to act when the tide is turning in the opposition's favour. We don't have the quality in the team at the moment to realise on their own that we're losing utter control of the game and that they need to just get some momentum back by keeping the ball and frustrating Brighton a bit.

Needs to get it bang on right on Sunday.
 
If we finish outside top 4 there will be some huge question marks over his head for me. Yea we’ve played a lot of games but we’ve been horrendous away from home all season. Several absolute batterings and dreadful performances to the point now where they can’t just be one-offs imo
 
Why? A better (footballing) keeper than de Gea and the game still ends the same as today. A better striker and we win today. Buying a new striker is much more important than buying a new goalkeeper. Im totally fine with starting another year of de Gea if that means signing an excellent striker and midfielder.

Stop gap goalkeeper shouldn't cost that much even with majority of funds going to Stiker and midfield aquisition it should be doable .

If it's still not possible then Get Henderson back into the fold and release De Gea.

I would rather United not get stuck with De Gea for another 3 years on big wages relative to his quality when we have an opportunity for a clean Break and when it's clear as day We can't become a top team with him in Goal .
 
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I truly hope we're in the market for a new #1, but I think De Gea will be our starting keeper again next season and we'll have the same issues.
I think they'll buy a new keeper. DDG is out of contract next month and it wouldn't surprise me if he's released. And if he does stay it'll be as a short-term backup to help the new keeper settle. I think if the money is there, then I foresee us signing a new GK, RB, CM and striker. It's not difficult to see where the problems are in this team.

The key to having a fluid attack is to have technically strong players on the ball in the defensive and deeper midfield lines. Casemiro shouldn't be the first receiver in midfield and that task should be for a new CM who has the craft, guile and ball retention skills to make a difference when it comes to progressing the play.

But it all begins with the keeper and just buying a striker might stem the bleeding in some games. But it won't help with the current problem, where we struggle to play through the press in the build up phase. And we aren't going to develop into a fast and fluid attacking unit without raising the technical ability of players in the first phase of the build up. And that begins with the keeper.
 
Zerbi had a team, ten Hag had players that started the game

i wonder if he asked incey for the bottle of wine back at FT for the flight home.
 
Had to replace a lot of players that left though, and came into a squad made of a hodgepodge of signings made by different managers, with no real thought to an overarching style.

He's having to try and lay the foundations after the walls have already been put up, and each wall is made of a different material and to a different height, so the roof doesn't fit properly.
That is true for sure but he was part of the group that at least didn't found anything wrong with wasting all of summer chasing FDJ and spunking an insane part of the budget (apparently even the budget for his NEXT summer) on Antony. If he knew about the dimensions of the problem, he should have gone for more than just 4 signings. He could have gone for 6 or 7.

Obviously I am not judging ETH on it - the club is the one that is responsible for things like that. But lets not act as if ETH didn't get his hands dirty. He had to and its fine.
 
A lot of that goal scoring issue is down to poor middle 3rd play though, if you consistently concede turnovers, or bypass the midfield completely, you aren’t generating the volume of chances needed for a high scoring team. We were admittedly wasteful today, but take the City - Arse game for instance, the best striker in the league, possibly the world, missed 2 1on1s against Ramsdale, and his team were up 3-1 before he got his goal. We had 3 or 4 decent chances in the 1st half then that’s it, we just stopped creating as midfield control was completely lost.

If you look ar Arsenal, I don’t think their forward line is particularly more clinical than ours, but they just generate so much more chances through possession and relentless pressure. We would alleviate our goalscoring issue with a top striker, but if we don’t fix our build up and midfield then I think what will happen is a lot of the goals the new striker score will just be taken from the tally of our midfield or wide forwards.
It's not so much us being wasteful with the chances we have, we are but the bigger thing is just having better forwards who make better decisions in the final third, have better movement to give others an easier target to find, or having better hold up play to give time for others to come. Our forwards are horrendous at keeping the ball and getting others into play. An inform Martial can do it, but he is very far from that (and his movement is horrible otherwise, so we don't have targets to turn good positions into actual chances). A top striker isn't just about being clinical. It's making chances through their own play for themselves, or getting on the end of better chances because they know where and when to move to certain areas.

Agree there are steps for our build up to take. Time is needed, it doesn't happen in 1 season, and you need reinforcements to get it up there as well. But the single biggest thing we lack is even a competent center forward. It has been championship level output from the most important position on the pitch.
 
I think they'll buy a new keeper. DDG is out of contract next month and it wouldn't surprise me if he's released. And if he does stay it'll be as a short-term backup to help the new keeper settle. I think if the money is there, then I foresee us signing a new GK, RB, CM and striker. It's not difficult to see where the problems are in this team.

The key to having a fluid attack is to have technically strong players on the ball in the defensive and deeper midfield lines. Casemiro shouldn't be the first receiver in midfield and that task should be for a new CM who has the craft, guile and ball retention skills to make a difference when it comes to progressing the play.

But it all begins with the keeper and just buying a striker might stem the bleeding in some games. But it won't help with the current problem, where we struggle to play through the press in the build up phase. And we aren't going to develop into a fast and fluid attacking unit without raising the technical ability of players in the first phase of the build up. And that begins with the keeper.
It is really obvious that you are looking at a GK as first priority. This is really interesting, your reasoning is plausible even though I would think that the middle of pitch would be the most decisive part in gaining control. Do you have a favorite for GK spot? (Genuinely interested, have soft spot for DDG but his time is gone)
 
Maybe our manager shouldn't have pushed to sign Antony for a good portion of the budget.

Indeed especially when he’s worked with him previously and knows his limitations. Shocking transfer all round
 
That is true for sure but he was part of the group that at least didn't found anything wrong with wasting all of summer chasing FDJ and spunking an insane part of the budget (apparently even the budget for his NEXT summer) on Antony. If he knew about the dimensions of the problem, he should have gone for more than just 4 signings. He could have gone for 6 or 7.

Obviously I am not judging ETH on it - the club is the one that is responsible for things like that. But lets not act as if ETH didn't get his hands dirty. He had to and its fine.
We didn't waste all of last summer chasing Frenkie de Jong and actually brought players in to improve the first phase of the build up by adding three starting players after missing out on de Jong. Martinez, Casemiro and Eriksen are first phase players. But the keeper and RB position is a bigger problem than he probably even imagined. He also wanted to keep Henderson according to reports but Solskjaer had apparently alienated Henderson to such a extent that he didn't want to stay.


And why it took as long as it did to sign Antony is a question only the owners can answer. Because going off reports, the budget made available for the transfer window was only £120m, so Antony couldn't be signed early. And that only changed when the pressure was put on the owners after the defeats in the first two league games. You'd have a point if the final spend was also the budget allocated at the beginning of the window. That wasn't the case and competent clubs don't operate like that because transfer budgets are known before the window opens.








The target was top 4 after the debacle of last season and we're on course for top 4.
 
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That is true for sure but he was part of the group that at least didn't found anything wrong with wasting all of summer chasing FDJ and spunking an insane part of the budget (apparently even the budget for his NEXT summer) on Antony. If he knew about the dimensions of the problem, he should have gone for more than just 4 signings. He could have gone for 6 or 7.

Obviously I am not judging ETH on it - the club is the one that is responsible for things like that. But lets not act as if ETH didn't get his hands dirty. He had to and its fine.
Impossible for him to know the dimension of the problem coming fresh off the boat to the new league, and the mess he inherited. Our players as mismatched and meh as they are, still on different level than most of his Ajax players he had coached.

Antony signing is overpriced, but you get at best 2 quality players that late in the window with 100mil. Paying 33mil+ each for 3 signings, you likely end up adding dross on top of dross. And the bigger problem is this club doesn't help him but put him in position where ETH has to pick transfer targets. Do you think him would be able to find better than Antony alternative paying 33+mil? He would have likely picked Ziyech, Neres, or somebody from Dutch league or buy Gakpo and use him on the right. Or the alternative is no RW signing and some random . Antony may be underwhelming considering his fee, but we're better than no right winger.

Klopp thought it was Okay that Karius could be mound into top class GK, and it cost him in CL final. Klopp got Klavan in, but ended up having to stick with Lovren. Pep bought Bravo ball playing GK that was a weakness for his team in his first season. Nolito flopped badly too. Those thing happens. And these are proven manager at top level with more experienced.

Ultimately, it was a failure of the recruitment team at the club. They just sit back and do nothing until receiving instruction from the manager.
 
Indeed especially when he’s worked with him previously and knows his limitations. Shocking transfer all round
Read the tweet below your post. It looks like it's another reactive action by the club.

Antony is a work in progress with the right profile. He has potential to grow. You can go find highlight of last season CL against Sporting Lisbon. He could clearly cross and provide service for the CF. The issue is the club left this transfer too late, without no alternative so they got taken to the cleaner by Ajax. Instead of a cog of machine signing, his fee gave him the talisman tag, where the lack of proper CF limits his game.

Edit: If the club could have negotiated for Kvaratskhelia at 20mil something, Isak 70mil, Kim under 20mil and just asked for ETH green light, I doubt he would turn down any of them.

The issue is they didn't do nothing, but wait for ETH to figure thing out. Assessing Sancho potential for right wing, Martial and Ronaldo for CF. Maguire for CB in high defensive line set up. Fred or McTominay as no 6. It's luck that Varane was bought last season, and Casemiro was available to purchase. Else that 3 holes in the spines of the team, and the long term issue with noneexistent right wing.
 
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Hmm who spent all summer chasing De Jong again?
FdJ, or other high profile unique CM is still transfer target we need to fill into the coming summer.

So chasing FdJ till last second in hope he changed his mind was nothing wrong. The issue is this club had no plan B, and couldn't put that plan B in the motion in the background. Always react aftermath. This is nothing new.

Let the fresh off the boat manager to devise plan A, and even react with a plan B after the disastrous first 2 games is incompetent of the highest order. We did well this season despite that level of incompetence from the director level.
 
I don't think he / the team can hide behind the we need to finish our chances excuse. We're 49G from 52.5 xG. Most teams / players don't outperform their xG significantly. Even peak Ronaldo was basically hitting his xG numbers.

Sure if we had a better forward he'll result in us making more xG but that's not the claim right now.
 
Indeed especially when he’s worked with him previously and knows his limitations. Shocking transfer all round
Do people actually watch the game or just follow trends online ?. Whilst Antony isn't performing at top level he is by far not our worst player. Martial added nothing tonight and our NO.9 position all year ( with Rashford there being an exception but not ideal ) has been none existent. Thus the wingers get more attention than they would with the right NO.9 in place. Rashford didnt play well tonight either and no mention how he allowed 2 brighton players to walk int to the box unmarked in the first half. Brighton are a good team we have played this team for basically 2 matches plus extra time with no goals in open play. Some are talking as if we are a full fledged team. This team is running on fumes and a lot of our main players are injured. We spent a shite load on Sancho but its Antony's fault. We never bought a proper DM until this year but Antony's rubbish. We have 2 first choice backs out ,its because we spent 86m on Antony fault. This lad may pack his bags and leave along with Casemiro as he is never more than one match away from being over the hill and a panic buy. Someone who managed this club said we need 10 players, so far we have got 5 let take a breather get Garancho back and see what the team is like with another 4 signings that we are missing. We are expecting too much of this squad that is miles behind City probably 3-5 years and a drive-through at Fort Knox. Looking for scapegoats constantly is just a self defence mechanism.
 
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Do people actually watch the game or just follow trends online ?. Whilst Antony isn't performing at top level he is by far not our worst player. Martial added nothing tonight and our NO.9 position all year ( with Rashford there being an exception but not ideal ) has been none existent. Thus the wingers get more attention than they would with the right NO.9 in place. Rashford didnt play well tonight either and no mention how he allowed 2 brighton players to walk int to the box unmarked in the first half. Brighton are a good team we have played this team for basically 2 matches plus extra time with no goals in open play. Some are talking as if we are a full fledged team. This team is running on fumes and a lot of our main players are injured. We spent a shite load on Sancho but its Antony's fault. We never bought a proper DM until this year but Antony's rubbish. We have 2 first choice backs out ,its because we spent 86m on Antony fault. This lad may pack his bags and leave along with Casemiro as he is never more than one match away from being over the hill and a panic buy. Someone who managed this club said we need 10 players, so far we have got 5 let take a breather get Garancho back and see what the team is like with another 4 signings that we are missing. We are expecting too much of this squad that is miles behind City probably 3-5 years and a drive-through at Fort Knox. Looking for scapegoats constantly is just a self defence mechanism.
Good post.

The real issues are further back but unfortunately people are oblivious to the changing dynamics in the EPL where resisting and evading pressure in the first phase has become much more important than it once was.

So for a head coach who wants to implement positional play in a vertical axis, he has to build his attack from the back and defense from the front. Hence Liverpool and City have been the dominant forces in recent years by developing teams over several years who are capable of playing through the press and raising the defensive line from the back. Aswell as having the players upfront who will defend from the front, and assist and score due to those guys at the back providing a strong platform, which creates a compact high block, where the opponent is pinned in their own half.
 
Do people actually watch the game or just follow trends online ?. Whilst Antony isn't performing at top level he is by far not our worst player. Martial added nothing tonight and our NO.9 position all year ( with Rashford there being an exception but not ideal ) has been none existent. Thus the wingers get more attention than they would with the right NO.9 in place. Rashford didnt play well tonight either and no mention how he allowed 2 brighton players to walk int to the box unmarked in the first half. Brighton are a good team we have played this team for basically 2 matches plus extra time with no goals in open play. Some are talking as if we are a full fledged team. This team is running on fumes and a lot of our main players are injured. We spent a shite load on Sancho but its Antony's fault. We never bought a proper DM until this year but Antony's rubbish. We have 2 first choice backs out ,its because we spent 86m on Antony fault. This lad may pack his bags and leave along with Casemiro as he is never more than one match away from being over the hill and a panic buy. Someone who managed this club said we need 10 players, so far we have got 5 let take a breather get Garancho back and see what the team is like with another 4 signings that we are missing. We are expecting too much of this squad that is miles behind City probably 3-5 years and a drive-through at Fort Knox. Looking for scapegoats constantly is just a self defence mechanism.

Good post.

The real issues are further back but unfortunately people are oblivious to the changing dynamics in the EPL where resisting and evading pressure in the first phase has become much more important than it once was.

So for a head coach who wants to implement positional play in a vertical axis, he has to build his attack from the back and defense from the front. Hence Liverpool and City have been the dominant forces in recent years by developing teams over several years who are capable of playing through the press and raising the defensive line from the back. Aswell as having the players upfront who will defend from the front, and assist and score due to those guys at the back providing a strong platform, which creates a compact high block, where the opponent is pinned in their own half.

Yeah but honestly Antony is just properly crap.
 
Watching the players coming for the 2 half again is seriously worrying. Did not look like they were motivated,
 
Indeed especially when he’s worked with him previously and knows his limitations. Shocking transfer all round
This is also a worry about Ten Hag, he surely knew Antonys flaws.
 
Overall I think ETH is doing good but not that great. Let's hope he can make it next season.
 
We didn't waste all of last summer chasing Frenkie de Jong and actually brought players in to improve the first phase of the build up by adding three starting players after missing out on de Jong. Martinez, Casemiro and Eriksen are first phase players. But the keeper and RB position is a bigger problem than he probably even imagined. He also wanted to keep Henderson according to reports but Solskjaer had apparently alienated Henderson to such a extent that he didn't want to stay.
Well I agree that calling it a waste is a bit of a stretch but I subjectively thought it was a waste of time. Martinez was done pretty early, bringing in Eriksen as a free-agent or Malacia as a cheap punt from Netherlands wasn't what most people were waiting for. Maybe it is coincidence in this case but to me it was obvious from the start, that FDJ wasn't willing to come so I consider it a waste of time chasing him all summer and getting involved with that ridiculous theatrics of the Barcelona lever society. Mostly because FDJs price would have taken a big chunk of the supposed transfer budget. Again, not putting the blame solely on ETH. But I guess if he would have said "if option A isn't there by date X, go for option B so we make sure to have options available during the season". The late arrivals messed a bit with the pre-season as well.

And why it took as long as it did to sign Antony is a question only the owners can answer. Because going off reports, the budget made available for the transfer window was only £120m, so Antony couldn't be signed early. And that only changed when the pressure was put on the owners after the defeats in the first two league games. You'd have a point if the final spend was also the budget allocated at the beginning of the window. That wasn't the case and competent clubs don't operate like that because transfer budgets are known before the window opens.
I get your point but it is from a perspective that is set on Antony as the only available option for RW. If that would have been true, I'd have an easier time understanding things but at the end of the day we obviously overpayed for a player who would have suprised almost everybody if he had set the league on fire from the start. If you need an RW but the budget isn't enough for option A, go for Option B. Also I am not sure about the transfer budget having been increased after the first two games. As I said, I read that the outlay from Antony came from supposedly transfer budgets of winter and following summer. We will see, how it turns out.

The target was top 4 after the debacle of last season and we're on course for top 4.
Yes.

Impossible for him to know the dimension of the problem coming fresh off the boat to the new league, and the mess he inherited. Our players as mismatched and meh as they are, still on different level than most of his Ajax players he had coached.
Wouldn't call it impossible. Not like nobody knew United before ETH joined so I am sure there would have been a chance to gain a good amount of information before spending too much time. Didn't he decline the offer to talk to Rangnick to learn his evaluations on the players? To be sure, not a stick to beat ETH, he obviously is free to choose how to spend his time but indicating that he simply didn't knew feels a bit shallow. Plus a few acquisitions or targets could have been identified no matter what ETH thought of the players available.

Antony signing is overpriced, but you get at best 2 quality players that late in the window with 100mil. Paying 33mil+ each for 3 signings, you likely end up adding dross on top of dross. And the bigger problem is this club doesn't help him but put him in position where ETH has to pick transfer targets. Do you think him would be able to find better than Antony alternative paying 33+mil? He would have likely picked Ziyech, Neres, or somebody from Dutch league or buy Gakpo and use him on the right. Or the alternative is no RW signing and some random . Antony may be underwhelming considering his fee, but we're better than no right winger.
I see your point but I wouldn't agree with it. We see how Bruno is played from the right, we have seen KDB played more or less on the right as well. So I wouldn't let me get boxed into "better overpay than nothing". I agree, there aren't many great options around and I admit, it shouldn't be on ETH to come up with options who would fit the bill. But to be completely honest - I have hoped that right after ETH was announced that the club would start buzzing preparing scouting reports, create lists and options and so on - to avoid one situation: be unprepared when the window starts and waste time. Time that would have been needed for a preparation on the training pitch in pre-season. We brought in a CB pretty early, were in contacts with Eriksen and bought Malacia. But everybody was waiting for midfielder and RW. If those two positions were identified as most important priorities, I think it doesn't shine a good light on everybody involved seeing it dragged out. I admit: thats criticism on a high level. But especially because ETH was expected to have quite a task modernizing our team, we should have moved heaven and earth to get the squad together as early as possible.

Klopp thought it was Okay that Karius could be mound into top class GK, and it cost him in CL final. Klopp got Klavan in, but ended up having to stick with Lovren. Pep bought Bravo ball playing GK that was a weakness for his team in his first season. Nolito flopped badly too. Those thing happens. And these are proven manager at top level with more experienced.
I agree with you. And I don't expect a 100% rate of transfer success. I expect to avoid big mistakes. And paying around double of the price for not-too-great reputation wise Brazilian right-wing from with moderate numbers in the Dutch league (seemingly including risking future transfers with it) has a huge risk of becoming a big mistake. Early days and hopefully Antony turns it around. I still expect the club to not repeat such mistakes. Our track record for big fees is as bad as it gets. For such numbers I expect to buy players who are ready to contribute from day 1 on. As you say - the challenge ahead for ETH, considering the mess the current squad has been created in, was always going to need a lot of new personal. For the 85million we could have gotten two players. None of them the best of the world probably. But sure better that what we had AND closer to the PL average.

Ultimately, it was a failure of the recruitment team at the club. They just sit back and do nothing until receiving instruction from the manager.
I agree 100%. But I think that ETH could have instilled a bit of urgency if he had wanted to. I don't know if I am right but seeing how the rest of the transfer team acted on his targets, I guess they would have changed targets if he wanted them to.#

Lets conclude it like that: I don't consider last years transfers as big failure. Neither as big success. For sure the way things were handled shouldn't be a blueprint for the future. If this can be established, I'd be over the moon.
 
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I know people are really disappointed. Me too! But frankly speaking, many foresee a result like this whenever we play a high press team. We got a result from villa game but failed here by the last moment handball. I guess we are just so frustrated about the fact Brighton is playing a much better football than us. Next season we will be a different team if the glazers are gone soon. The priority has to be a new goalkeeper first and foremost. I think we won’t be out of the top four when the season is over.
 
Well I agree that calling it a waste is a bit of a stretch but I subjectively thought it was a waste of time. Martinez was done pretty early, bringing in Eriksen as a free-agent or Malacia as a cheap punt from Netherlands wasn't what most people were waiting for. Maybe it is coincidence in this case but to me it was obvious from the start, that FDJ wasn't willing to come so I consider it a waste of time chasing him all summer and getting involved with that ridiculous theatrics of the Barcelona lever society. Mostly because FDJs price would have taken a big chunk of the supposed transfer budget. Again, not putting the blame solely on ETH. But I guess if he would have said "if option A isn't there by date X, go for option B so we make sure to have options available during the season". The late arrivals messed a bit with the pre-season as well.


I get your point but it is from a perspective that is set on Antony as the only available option for RW. If that would have been true, I'd have an easier time understanding things but at the end of the day we obviously overpayed for a player who would have suprised almost everybody if he had set the league on fire from the start. If you need an RW but the budget isn't enough for option A, go for Option B. Also I am not sure about the transfer budget having been increased after the first two games. As I said, I read that the outlay from Antony came from supposedly transfer budgets of winter and following summer. We will see, how it turns out.


Yes.


Wouldn't call it impossible. Not like nobody knew United before ETH joined so I am sure there would have been a chance to gain a good amount of information before spending too much time. Didn't he decline the offer to talk to Rangnick to learn his evaluations on the players? To be sure, not a stick to beat ETH, he obviously is free to choose how to spend his time but indicating that he simply didn't knew feels a bit shallow. Plus a few acquisitions or targets could have been identified no matter what ETH thought of the players available.


I see your point but I wouldn't agree with it. We see how Bruno is played from the right, we have seen KDB played more or less on the right as well. So I wouldn't let me get boxed into "better overpay than nothing". I agree, there aren't many great options around and I admit, it shouldn't be on ETH to come up with options who would fit the bill. But to be completely honest - I have hoped that right after ETH was announced that the club would start buzzing preparing scouting reports, create lists and options and so on - to avoid one situation: be unprepared when the window starts and waste time. Time that would have been needed for a preparation on the training pitch in pre-season. We brought in a CB pretty early, were in contacts with Eriksen and bought Malacia. But everybody was waiting for midfielder and RW. If those two positions were identified as most important priorities, I think it doesn't shine a good light on everybody involved seeing it dragged out. I admit: thats criticism on a high level. But especially because ETH was expected to have quite a task modernizing our team, we should have moved heaven and earth to get the squad together as early as possible.


I agree with you. And I don't expect a 100% rate of transfer success. I expect to avoid big mistakes. And paying around double of the price for not-too-great reputation wise Brazilian right-wing from with moderate numbers in the Dutch league (seemingly including risking future transfers with it) has a huge risk of becoming a big mistake. Early days and hopefully Antony turns it around. I still expect the club to not repeat such mistakes. Our track record for big fees is as bad as it gets. For such numbers I expect to buy players who are ready to contribute from day 1 on. As you say - the challenge ahead for ETH, considering the mess the current squad has been created in, was always going to need a lot of new personal. For the 85million we could have gotten two players. None of them the best of the world probably. But sure better that what we had AND closer to the PL average.


I agree 100%. But I think that ETH could have instilled a bit of urgency if he had wanted to. I don't know if I am right but seeing how the rest of the transfer team acted on his targets, I guess they would have changed targets if he wanted them to.#

Lets conclude it like that: I don't consider last years transfers as big failure. Neither as big success. For sure the way things were handled shouldn't be a blueprint for the future. If this can be established, I'd be over the moon.
I don't know how you rate Bruno on the right, but for me he's meh if he's to station on the right. He can create chance, put in some cross, but he doesn't hold, protect the ball well, let alone dribble and stretch play. Bruno look to make effort but his defensive game is wildly flaw. He tried to nick the ball, instead of tracking, and follow through the attacker. It works in higher position, but for tracking players deep into our own half, it doesn't work. The infamous giving up attitude after a failed tackle against Liverpool is the example of what I talk about. Or a poor foul giving a soft penalty to Barcelona defending as RW. Bruno overall influence would decline if he doesn't allow the free to roam from the central position. Occasionally it's Okay. A whole season, it would have been much worse.

KDB on the right despite still being productive didn't impress. Pep used to rotate between David Silva, Sterling, Sane for that right wing because KDB didn't fulfill the right wing attacker criteria in the fullest. Pep had better option and yet he felt he had to get Sane, who first season at City was also inconsistent.

You can read the old tweet from the @Adnan post above. It's clear that the club only provided some more fund after the panic button was pressed after first 2 PL defeats. Antony is not a must buy, but RW was a must buy. We just left everything too late and paid the price for it literally. I doubt the club would have provided an alternative to Antony then. It's up to ETH again to find a RW from his own experience which likely land us Ziyech, Neres, Gakpo (out of position), or someone worse from Dutch league, while still paying the late fee for leaving so late in the window.

I consider last summer somehow a failure or a more suitable term is incomplete. That CF position should have been another must do. Ronaldo was the most reliable scorer and it was always when he leave, not whether he leave. That means we have no reliable scorer without the hindsight of Rashford this season. I believe Martial is the most talented CF, ETH has ever coached. He probably got wowed at what Martial's potential, to think that with time he can do something with him. In reality, he doesn't. Someone from the club with all the fitness data, and performance analysis data should have take responsibility and brief ETH, to push to at least get a better back up CF in, regardless of Ronaldo situation.

ETH did not get everything right, but I believe he did as much as his could with how irresponsible the people around are. I hope thing has changed, but looks like there is no improvement. So I won't hold my breath.
 
He can't motivate these players to play. Its a given that we don't perform at all in the second half
 
The fact Brighton were the ones trying to win this in they dying minutes and not us is just as pathetic as it can get.

Hopeless team. Congrats on winning League Cup, Ten Hag.

This team is truly Jekyll & Hyde and worryingly so is Erik's coaching away from home too
 
He can't motivate these players to play. Its a given that we don't perform at all in the second half
Less on motivation and more on fatigue... Playing 15-20 games more than the opponent will do that to you. Also doesn't seem to have a problem motivating them in big cup games or any home games.
 
May as well ask this question in the thread how many of you are Ten Hag out then. Clearly some have washed their hands of him and not prepared to see if he can turn it around away from home next season.
 
The summer is going to be make or break. We look a long way off it at the moment.

We’re tired, sure. But the only way to avoid matches is to get knocked out of Europe and domestic cups asap, which of course we don’t want to do. We’re always going to have a heavy schedule. EtH needs to solve that problem this summer.

I like him. I think he could be a great manager. He has to turn us into certain Top 4 material (not scraping about for wins with five games to go) otherwise we will struggle to recruit.

It will be tough to do it in one window but he has to. We could easily be overtaken by Liverpool and Chelsea next year. Newcastle look here to stay. If we finish fifth (let’s face it, even 6th or 7th wouldn’t be a shock), he will be fired. Brutal, crazy, whatever, he has one more season to pull it together which really means one transfer window.
Liverpool probably yeah will be back up there. Arsenal will drop off with a tougher schedule. Newcastle will inevitably drop off, it is an enormous difference having no fixture congestion vs playing every mid week. Knocked out in the 1st game of the FA Cup, no European football... They will struggle to recreate what they've done this season.

Also - why would we want to get knocked out of cups? We have succeeded at hitting our targets in the league up until now, we won a cup, and are in the cup final of another. People can criticize whatever they like but at the end of the day, he has hit every single target for us.
 
Indeed especially when he’s worked with him previously and knows his limitations. Shocking transfer all round
He's a good player with big potential and was one of our better players.

Yes, financially we overspent. He's young though, and has it in him to be a top player eventually.
 
Do we have a problem unearthing young talent that can go on to become world beaters.
What is our scouting department up to?

Do we really need to be in the market for 100m+ players from other clubs? We should have capable youngsters able to step up to the 1st team.
 
Well I agree that calling it a waste is a bit of a stretch but I subjectively thought it was a waste of time. Martinez was done pretty early, bringing in Eriksen as a free-agent or Malacia as a cheap punt from Netherlands wasn't what most people were waiting for. Maybe it is coincidence in this case but to me it was obvious from the start, that FDJ wasn't willing to come so I consider it a waste of time chasing him all summer and getting involved with that ridiculous theatrics of the Barcelona lever society. Mostly because FDJs price would have taken a big chunk of the supposed transfer budget. Again, not putting the blame solely on ETH. But I guess if he would have said "if option A isn't there by date X, go for option B so we make sure to have options available during the season". The late arrivals messed a bit with the pre-season as well.


I get your point but it is from a perspective that is set on Antony as the only available option for RW. If that would have been true, I'd have an easier time understanding things but at the end of the day we obviously overpayed for a player who would have suprised almost everybody if he had set the league on fire from the start. If you need an RW but the budget isn't enough for option A, go for Option B. Also I am not sure about the transfer budget having been increased after the first two games. As I said, I read that the outlay from Antony came from supposedly transfer budgets of winter and following summer. We will see, how it turns out.


Yes.


Wouldn't call it impossible. Not like nobody knew United before ETH joined so I am sure there would have been a chance to gain a good amount of information before spending too much time. Didn't he decline the offer to talk to Rangnick to learn his evaluations on the players? To be sure, not a stick to beat ETH, he obviously is free to choose how to spend his time but indicating that he simply didn't knew feels a bit shallow. Plus a few acquisitions or targets could have been identified no matter what ETH thought of the players available.


I see your point but I wouldn't agree with it. We see how Bruno is played from the right, we have seen KDB played more or less on the right as well. So I wouldn't let me get boxed into "better overpay than nothing". I agree, there aren't many great options around and I admit, it shouldn't be on ETH to come up with options who would fit the bill. But to be completely honest - I have hoped that right after ETH was announced that the club would start buzzing preparing scouting reports, create lists and options and so on - to avoid one situation: be unprepared when the window starts and waste time. Time that would have been needed for a preparation on the training pitch in pre-season. We brought in a CB pretty early, were in contacts with Eriksen and bought Malacia. But everybody was waiting for midfielder and RW. If those two positions were identified as most important priorities, I think it doesn't shine a good light on everybody involved seeing it dragged out. I admit: thats criticism on a high level. But especially because ETH was expected to have quite a task modernizing our team, we should have moved heaven and earth to get the squad together as early as possible.


I agree with you. And I don't expect a 100% rate of transfer success. I expect to avoid big mistakes. And paying around double of the price for not-too-great reputation wise Brazilian right-wing from with moderate numbers in the Dutch league (seemingly including risking future transfers with it) has a huge risk of becoming a big mistake. Early days and hopefully Antony turns it around. I still expect the club to not repeat such mistakes. Our track record for big fees is as bad as it gets. For such numbers I expect to buy players who are ready to contribute from day 1 on. As you say - the challenge ahead for ETH, considering the mess the current squad has been created in, was always going to need a lot of new personal. For the 85million we could have gotten two players. None of them the best of the world probably. But sure better that what we had AND closer to the PL average.


I agree 100%. But I think that ETH could have instilled a bit of urgency if he had wanted to. I don't know if I am right but seeing how the rest of the transfer team acted on his targets, I guess they would have changed targets if he wanted them to.#

Lets conclude it like that: I don't consider last years transfers as big failure. Neither as big success. For sure the way things were handled shouldn't be a blueprint for the future. If this can be established, I'd be over the moon.
I understand where you're coming from regarding Frenkie de Jong. But for me we made improvements by bringing in Eriksen and Casemiro who are better than Fred and McTominay imo. And it's a work in progress to develop a playing style at a club like United that has for almost a decade been signing players for a reactive brand of football rather than a proactive brand of football, which has meant we fell behind clubs like Liverpool and City when it comes to developing a playing style that befits a club of our stature. We have too many players that have been signed by previous managers who simply aren't good enough on the ball when it comes to building up play from the back. And whenever we play against any team that is technically strong in possession and are adept at pressing high collectively, we have problems. And our starting goalkeeper is the biggest issue, and he's a goalkeeper that has been deemed to be not good enough by the Spanish national team via their former head Coach, Luis Enrique for the same reasons.

Antony isn't the problem imo eventhough we overpaid for him due to the Glazers making additional funds available near the end of the window. And they likely did provide next seasons transfer budget but they had no choice due to how poorly we had finished the season under Rangnick after things imploded with Solskjaer and a budget of £120m was never enough with even Spurs spending £170m, via their DoF Paratici.

I don't believe we will only sign ten Hag affiliated players in the coming season because there is a new team in place that has replaced the outgoing head scouts from last season with the extra addition of a data science lead. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't sign certain players from Holland, due to Holland historically producing some of the best players in the world. Liverpool have signed plenty of players that Klopp pushed for.

I expect a much better transfer window due to the stability within the recruitment structure after the dismissal of Bout and Lawlor on the eve of last summers transfer window. So I'm looking forward to seeing what Jose Mayorga, Simon Wells (Head scouts) and Mick Court and Dominic Jordan (data science) will provide as options now that they've had a full season to compile and collate scout reports. And hopefully Matt Hargreaves who has joined as the head of transfer negotiations, will also be good at his job. Bayern have also raided Adidas for people to join their football structure.

I wish someone would give me a job in recruitment because I dont believe it's difficult to sign players for a particular play style. Especially if I've also got the support of the rest of the scouts and data scientists.
 
Can't compare Klopp to ETH, big difference in class. What Klopp did in Germany was great and showed clear ideas as soon as he came in.

We're not getting the vision I expected from ETH and has at times managed things badly. Could be down to the huge amount of games, but you can argue it was naive to strong teams in almost every game early on.

Plus, I don't think ETH is ruthless like Pep or Klopp.

Let's see how the season ends, top 4 is must. Then I will be interested to see what he does with DDG, that for me would be very telling.

Just remember he can't kick him to the kerb like Guardiola could do with Hart & Bravo due to those leeches controlling things
 
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