Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[padzilla]

Ten Hag needed a decent striker to come in and replace Ronaldo, he was given Weghorst.
That alone should tell us we need to get rid of the Glazers ASAP.
That said he keeps picking possibly the worst player to wear a United shirt week in, week out.
Most alarmingly is we don't look anywhere near from moving away from the tactic of ceding the majority of possession and hitting the opponent on the break.
We need to be bossing games not hoping to take enough punches the opposition wears themselves down and makes a mistake.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Your agreement on whether the fixture congestion has an effect or not is 100% meaningless. You either understand or you don't, and you don't

Que?

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Also, his refusal to rely on the young players is really starting to get on my nerves. They cannot be this shit, surely?

You're not alone. I say that playing the kids is far less damaging for us than relying on the same old failures.

 

[Dec9003]

I agree and think he should’ve made subs earlier too, but this thread is absolutely mental after a bad result.

You get the odd dramatic poster, but from what I’ve read the posters shouting down any fair criticism of the manager seem far more over the top than those who have reasonably questioned him.

 

[Judas]

Ten Hag needed a decent striker to come in and replace Ronaldo, he was given Weghorst.
That alone should tell us we need to get rid of the Glazers ASAP.
That said he keeps picking possibly the worst player to wear a United shirt week in, week out.

Let's be fair, he was given Weghorst because he wanted him. I'm sure he wasn't his first choice, probably not even 2nd or 3rd, but he was clearly on a list, which is quite staggering, as he's possibly the worst striker I've seen play for us in my lifetime.

 

[Andersonson]

Our pressing is dire. His tactical approach isnt much better than Ole's.

He is also not very good at grinding out results, its the same tactics no matter what. Bottle top 4 and he should be gone. I dont think he will bottle it though

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Look at the effort Arsenal have put in and they'll probably come up short. We are not sniffing the league anytime soon trying some of this new age football with Klopp and Guardiola around. Hopefully we lean into the counter attack even more next season especially with the likes of Bruno and Marcus in their prime.

We will go nowhere unless we start recylcing the ball better and keeping it.

No top team exclusively plays counter attacking football vs other top teams.

The last 10 CL winners all have been good possession to great possession times.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ten Hag needed a decent striker to come in and replace Ronaldo, he was given Weghorst.
That alone should tell us we need to get rid of the Glazers ASAP.
That said he keeps picking possibly the worst player to wear a United shirt week in, week out.

I'm sorry but he spent 250m in the summer. There's not a never ending pot of money.

Maybe he shouldn't have spent 84m on the Brazilian Mark Albrighton and invested it into a world class striker instead.

 

[el3mel]

He's not a real fan, and nor are the rest of the couch managers

Keep on using personal attacks. It says everything about you, "real fan".

 

[thegregster]

Our pressing is dire. His tactical approach isnt much better than Ole's.

He is also not very good at grinding out results, its the same tactics no matter what. Bottle top 4 and he should be gone. I dont think he will bottle it though

Rashad and Martial were terrible at it tonight.

 

[ti vu]

Most clubs (and all the big ones) have a structure in place where the manager is part of the machinery, and not even that important (sure Pep is another matter, but I think City would be quite good, although not as good without him). That's why managers come and go, but ultimately are easily replaceable (see Brighton whose manager changed in September).

United does not have such a structure and the manager is the club. This makes things weird because it is destined to ultimately fail, but at the same time creates a God-cult for the manager from fans, which needlessly extends their spells here. It also doesn't help that we haven't been that great at picking managers, and we are always late at sacking them.

Very good post.

Can't compare Klopp to ETH, big difference in class. What Klopp did in Germany was great and showed clear ideas as soon as he came in.

We're not getting the vision I expected from ETH and has at times managed things badly. Could be down to the huge amount of games, but you can argue it was naive to strong teams in almost every game early on.

Plus, I don't think ETH is ruthless like Pep or Klopp.

Let's see how the season ends, top 4 is must. Then I will be interested to see what he does with DDG, that for me would be very telling.

Just that Klopp was more proven, and more experienced with his short coming which prompted him to leave Dortmund in the end. Over a partial season and a full season time into his Liverpool stint, Klopp still looked naive himself. He didn't have European football, and played down the domestic cup to barely made top 4 ahead of Arsenal.

Brentan Rodgers might have left a bad squad, but inheriting the team with his coaching, vision is easier than the mess we saw last season with Ole's hand off coaching style, and RR barebone gengen pressing. The team in post you quoted was misleading. Firminio was already there. Henderson had been there for years. Klopp first 2/3 season where they made League Cup Final and EL final.

It's not Klopp who is ruthless. It's the set up behind him. Klopp was the one who pushed for Karius and kept trying to integrate him which cost the CL final against Real Madrid. It took over half a season before Robertson became starter under Klopp. There were plenty of "club signings" from the recruitment committee to help Klopp. Klopp was not a big money signing. He had the nerve to say something like he would have retired if his club starting spending Pogba level fee for a player. You know the recruitment committee stepped in and pushed for Allison, VVD record signing for their position.

So at the moment, it's not all about the manager. Someone need to help him. Can't expect him to list down target of familiar players or well known players. He's a coach, not a scout or negatiator.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Oh, I guess we are conserving the energy for the next season then. Good to know that.

I also guess Liverpool's problems are cause they got so much tired last season, that despite two months rest, they were still tired. But somehow, after playing another 40+ games, are not tired anymore.

If that's what you take from that super.

 

[Solius]

I'm sorry but he spent 250m in the summer. There's not a never ending pot of money.

Maybe he shouldn't have spent 84m on the Brazilian Mark Albrighton and invested it into a world class striker instead.

The dramatics in here

 

[Member 58925]

This is all fair, and nobody is saying it hasn’t been a challenging season, though our main passing midfielder, if you mean Eriksen, was an unused substitute tonight whilst we struggled and again brought in players like Weghorst and Sancho that have struggled to be consistently effective. We can’t just say oh yeah but we’ve played quite a few matches whenever Ten Hag makes questionable subs that give the opposition the momentum.

Eriksen played 3 matches in the span of a week prior to today and has only recently come back from injury.

 

[Samoerai Jack]

I said your sentence, nothing about structure. Only one of us is writing Steven Seagal dialogue - "it's the manner of criticism and questioning that separates a brat from a man" what the feck, but alas

It's not overreaction to say we've been shite for a while - we have. It's also no overreaction to question his penchant for playing Wout Weghorst. Similarly, it's also not an overreaction to point out how bad we've been away from home all season - resulting in some of the worst defeats in the history of this club - all under this manager. There are plenty of those posts here, if you choose to overlook them to say "I'm only seeing meltdowns" then that's on you and not really reflective of what's happening in this thread.

I don't care for a drive down memory lane about Ferguson, so I'll leave you alone with that.

With English my second language, I'm somewhat reliant for my vocabulary on American movies. So I hope you've got the perspective to look beyond that.

I see you take on a different tone when pressed. A tactic from aggressive posters on message boards called motte and bailey; the poster puts out an inflammatory opinion, only to retreat to a more reasonable take when put under pressure. Fair enough, and I'll concede that I went for a hyperbole with "I'm only seeing meltdowns".

The drive of my point is that the mentality at the club needs changing. Ferguson has been at the heart of United for many years, if you'd rather not discuss that than I'm not sure where to start.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

De Zerbris been in the job 6 months and has Danny Welbeck as his leading striker…still managed to play us off the park twice in last two weeks

They also have a footballing structure that has been developing this squad for a few years, and brought in De Zerbi because he fits that model. Ten Hag has come in under a new Director of Football, when we've had zero strategy for years, and Welbeck is miles ahead of Weghorst or Anthony "Oh, a breeze hit my leg ouch" Martial.

We couldn't recruit a fancy striker in the summer to replace Ronaldo, who decided to feck off mid season, because we have zero cash. Our players at the start of the season, following on from the previous year, were destroyed when pressed and could never break down deep lying defenses. They couldn't even pass the ball to a team mate ten feet away. Ten Hag has had to fix a lot of things and he's already done a lot to remedy that this season. Players look unfit and now even Shaw looks lean and willing to run through a brick wall. Our defense high five each other whenever one of them farts, compared to last year when they would just sigh and shrug at one another when we conceded a goal. That's another thing; these players looked pissed off and frustrated when they lost tonight - compare that to how they would just deflate last season.

I'm not saying that he's had a perfect season but the people on here saying that he's just another Ole are either emotionally reactive children, doing what they always do after a loss (I'm actually worried to think what they're like during a personal crisis because fecking hell...) or they're on the wum.

Is he naive? Yes, the manager who has only been in England for nine months has underestimated the Premier League. Even Klopp had a shit start at Liverpool.

Does he rely too much on certain players? Absolutely. Look at how weak our subs bench is.

Is he the Messiah? No. He's Dutch. He's the motherfecking Meshshiah, oh yesh.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Why are people fighting here and throwing words around. The state of this thread today
As one of the first posters here to sound an alarm about our state of football and Erik situation I believe I'm calm enough to bring some sanity here.

1. The collapse of our team, or rather the alarm bells started after the Arsenal game. How we folded in that game was an absolute shocker. The last few minutes against Brighton and Arsenal were similar. Completely under immense pressure, and you knew we will concede. Few games against Barca after Arsenal game did pamper the cracks but it was completely evident we would not control football matches regularly.

2. Main problem with ETH is he has been unable to find midfield control and structure. I've said this a million times. You can not win anything big with a 4231 setup compounded by the profile of our midfielders. We are the easiest team to play against. Bruno folds under any pressure, no one in our Midfield can dribble, no one can take the ball in half turn, no one is master recycler. You can't win enough football matches when you don't have the ball most of the time. It's basic nature.

3. it seems our players are uncoachable. To some degree you have to question the profile of our players. We over estimate our players while underestimate the opponents players. We are where we are supposed to be. The stature of the Club makes the fan base droll over very basic players. I don't want to name the players here as it derail the thread but our midfield is our biggest issue. Striking is a player lacking issue. But our midfield is soo unbalanced that if ETH doesn't sort it out he will be sacked next year. I said this in February. Still it remains.

4. ETH deserves next season. The assumption was we capture top4. If we fail to get top4 where do we go from there?


5. ETH future as a success or failure rests on how he sorts out the midfield control, structure and stability, if he decides to bypass midfield and become a pressing Liverpool team then it can work for some time but as Liverpool have seen it brought only 2 major titles in 8 years.

6. Everything that is happening now, was bound to happen. Game control will not be coached but will be sorted by new players. So let's see what we get in the summer.

But if we go with the same midfield as it s now next season, expect carnage of results.

 

[Member 58925]

Oh, I guess we are conserving the energy for the next season then. Good to know that.

I also guess Liverpool's problems are cause they got so much tired last season, that despite two months rest, they were still tired. But somehow, after playing another 40+ games, are not tired anymore.

Liverpool did not have to play all of those fixtures with a winter world cup in the middle of the season.

 

[kouroux]

Ten Hag needed a decent striker to come in and replace Ronaldo, he was given Weghorst.
That alone should tell us we need to get rid of the Glazers ASAP.
That said he keeps picking possibly the worst player to wear a United shirt week in, week out.
Most alarmingly is we don't look anywhere near from moving away from the tactic of ceding the majority of possession and hitting the opponent on the break.
We need to be bossing games not hoping to take enough punches the opposition wears themselves down and makes a mistake.

He chose Wout.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The dramatics in here

No dramatics here. Antony is an absolute fraud. To only have 4 PL goals and 1 assist by May is laughable. Dan James did better than that and he didn't cost 85m + future installments which may total 100m.

 

[Solius]

He chose Wout.

If you offered me a rickety boat or no boat to get across a flowing river I’d probably take the rickety boat.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No - but they have a better team

Why do they have a better team?

How do Brighton look miles ahead of us when it comes to playing out from the back and pressing?

It's just concerning. People keep talking about Ten Hag sacrificing and reverting to pragmatism, but by all accounts, he wants De Gea to stay. He insisted in bringing in Weghorst and then playing him almost every game.

 

[bosnian_red]

Based on what Adnan posted our priority should be a new keeper, as our inability to play out from the back is where all our problems begin

We have problems in build up that if not solved we won't win the league, yes. We also have much bigger goalscoring issues where we are literally mid table in the league with our current forwards.

 

[Solius]

No dramatics here. Antony is an absolute fraud. To only have 4 PL goals and 1 assist by May is laughable. Dan James did better than that and he didn't cost 85m + future installments which may total 100m.

Ok.

 

[Yorkeontop]

What new age football? We have the 6th highest possession in the league, closer to Wolves than the likes of City, Liverpool and Arsenal, and Brighton have had vastly more possession than us twice in 2 weeks. We're not really playing any discernable style yet because Ten Hag is a pragmatist who is trying to get through this season with a flawed squad playing a huge number of games in a season congested due to the World Cup.

But Brighton can outpass teams using a side assembled through 1/5 of our spending, if that, and would be top-4 if they had a prolific centre forward (who was able to participate in play). Ole-ball has a clear ceiling except in once in a century circumstances: even Leicester needed Kante and Mahrez as well as a lot of fortune when winning the league through playing more of a counterpunch game.

You can't certainly can't play that kind of game through European competitions, just punting and scrapping and charging or soaking up pressure then hoofing it out to the wings. Maybe we should try recruiting technical players with genuine energy in CM and a genuine out and out centre forward, before we go back to the nostalgia or heroic failure followed by abject defeats to the likes of Watford

We will go nowhere unless we start recylcing the ball better and keeping it.

No top team exclusively plays counter attacking football vs other top teams.

The last 10 CL winners all have been good possession to great possession times.

I'm just simpleton folks. I don't have the technical or tactical know-how to argue the point I think I'm trying to make. Blame the internet for empowering me. I appreciate the information you imparted on me though.

 

[wolvored]

It’s widely reported he will be lowering his wages. I’m assuming de Gea will stick around as number 2 and we will sign a new keeper.

Yss but at 200k a week hes surely still our main goalie if it goes through. You cant have a no 2 on that much otherwise the club havent moved on from Woodward at all

 

[Roboc7]

The squad needs to be gutted, it’s couple it years to sort this mess out and that’s assuming there is a takeover and we get some competent people brought in to help with recruitment.

Next year we need to see improvements in ball retention and pressing through new signings and coaching. I’d we don’t then will start to ask some questions of the manager. Going to be very tough run in and top 4 will likely go to last game of the season the way we look at the moment.

 

[kouroux]

If you offered me a rickety boat or no boat to get across a flowing river I’d probably take the rickety boat.

I don't believe for one second that in the entire world of serviceable strikers, only Wout was available

 

[padzilla]

To be honest, there is a genuine question to be asked about how much progress we have made at this stage under Ten Hag.
The next few weeks will be crucial.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

At Brighton, the manager is a small cog in a very well-run and well-organized operation - basically the opposite of how our club has been set up.

I reckon de Zerbi at another club would be just another average manager, in the same way that Potter turned out to be nothing special once he left.

I am pretty sure they've gone up a level since Potter left.

De Zerbi is a better manager than him. They created a lot of chances with Potter too, but they weren't this good at playing out from the back.

 

[Solius]

Yss but at 200k a week hes surely still our main goalie if it goes through. You cant have a no 2 on that much otherwise the club havent moved on from Woodward at all

We probably can’t afford to sign two goalkeepers. Heaton isn’t really a good enough back up so the best option for now is lowering DDG’a wages and phasing him out.

 

[Dec9003]

Eriksen played 3 matches in the span of a week prior to today and has only recently come back from injury.

He didn’t complete 90 minutes in any of the three matches over 11 days, he could have done half an hour today.

 

[padzilla]

The squad needs to be gutted, it’s couple it years to sort this mess out and that’s assuming there is a takeover and we get some competent people brought in to help with recruitment.

Next year we need to see improvements in ball retention and pressing through new signings and coaching. I’d we don’t then will start to ask some questions of the manager. Going to be very tough run in and top 4 will likely go to last game of the season the way we look at the moment.

To be honest this is a post that could have been made every year for the past decade.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

If the King dies, we only play one game in September, the rescheduled games get crammed in post Jan, we play every conceivable game bar three, we lose our main passing midfielder for three months, lose our first choice CBs for months, have our main striker throw a strop and leave mid season then yeah we might get a repeat.

I really don't understand why people ignore every little bit of context and saying things like "he's just like Ole" or "he's just like Jose". Neither them had to face the circumstances we've had this season. Mid season WC, too. That was our 35th game since December 21st. We'd have played an entire PL season next week in just 4 and a bit months.

 

[bosnian_red]

Why do they have a better team?

How do Brighton look miles ahead of us when it comes to playing out from the back and pressing?

It's just concerning. People keep talking about Ten Hag sacrificing and reverting to pragmatism, but by all accounts, he wants De Gea to stay. He insisted in bringing in Weghorst and then playing him almost every game.

Better ball playing goalkeeper and more press resistant midfielders. Also having 1 week to prep for every game pretty much, train your system, and playing something like 15-18 fewer games throughout the season has a big impact.

Our schedule since August has been game, recovery, short match prep, game. Every single week. It's basically survival mode.

 

[Solius]

I don't believe for one second that in the entire world of serviceable strikers, only Wout was available

I think he was when we essentially had no money. He’d also just come off the back of a decent WC.

 

[Anustart89]

If you offered me a rickety boat or no boat to get across a flowing river I’d probably take the rickety boat.

At least your rickety boat would've been built by a boat builder. Some people on here think you should pick a boat built by someone in the academy who's never built a boat before because that would at least give you credit in the bank for daring to trust the person who's never built a boat.

 

[Solius]

I really don't understand why people ignore every little bit of context and saying things like "he's just like Ole" or "he's just like Jose". Neither them had to face the circumstances we've had this season. Mid season WC, too. That was our 35th game since December 21st. We'd have played an entire PL season next week in just 4 and a bit months.

Because that would require some thought before posting.

 

[Berbaclass]

No dramatics here. Antony is an absolute fraud. To only have 4 PL goals and 1 assist by May is laughable. Dan James did better than that and he didn't cost 85m + future installments which may total 100m.

Don't think you could ever muster up a post without having a dig at Antony

Wasn't even that bad today. Agenda much?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Better ball playing goalkeeper and more press resistant midfielders. Also having 1 week to prep for every game pretty much, train your system, and playing something like 15-18 fewer games throughout the season has a big impact.

Our schedule since August has been game, recovery, short match prep, game. Every single week. It's basically survival mode.

Ten Hag wants De Gea to stay by certain reports.