Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Solius]

How does that mean we weren't unlucky?

We should have scored 2/3 goals in the first 45

Do you not get it yet?

Other teams missing chances against us = we got lucky but us missing chances is to be ignored.

Why not use City (this season) or Liverpool (last season) who played as many games (in the case of Liverpool more than we can play this season), and you know, didn't look totally clueless?

Brighton also cost a fraction of our squad, and changed managers in September. Imagine the defense here if ten Hag didn't have a pre-season, let alone had to come mid-season.

I don’t think any team had to play two rescheduled games crammed in because of a monarch dying. It’s not just the amount of games, it’s also the timing of them.

 

[sepulturite]

The fact Brighton were the ones trying to win this in they dying minutes and not us is just as pathetic as it can get.

Hopeless team. Congrats on winning League Cup, Ten Hag.

Jesus you've turned into a proper miserable git on here lately.

So what would your solution be then? Sack him and start all over again? Or have a bit of patience and actually let him try and get us back to where we belong? Because I never expected it to all be sorted in one season.

And I think anyone with their head screwed on would be of the same opinion. But you go ahead and keep throwing your toys of the pram like you have the past few months if you makes you feel better.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Because there is nothing unique about us playing these many games.

City is playing these many games too and looks amazing. Liverpool (who also do not have massive depth) played 63 matches last season, won the two domestic Cups, almost won UCL and got 92 points in the league.

You managed to pick out a team who has two first elevens and a team which fell off a cliff the start of the following season.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. If I'm the new owner I'd be pumping money into that department and putting a proper structure in place - look how well run Brighton are

We have some experts here who claim the entire footballing operations structure has been overhauled and modernized under Murtough and Fletcher, and that we should begin to see the fruits of their labor soon. I hope it's true, otherwise we'll continue in this never-ending cycle of shit.

 

[El Jefe]

Just get him as far away as possible from selecting who should join the squad and who should get contract extensions.

I feel if given a set of players who can truly play his style of football he will produce but the man is absolutely blinded by certain qualities he sees in some players even if they are totally the wrong fit.

How can he justify wanting to give DDG an extension if he can't pass to save his life. He adores Bruno but he's a bang average possession player. He allows Casemiro the freedom to pass the ball like he's Xabi Alonso. Continues to play Weghorst when it couldn't be clearer he's the biggest liability we've ever had in attack.

Murtough needs to gut this team for him and recreate a squad suited to his style because Ten Hag will not do it and will keep stubbornly trying to win games with players not fit for him.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

That second half was appalling. No matter how little you can blame him for how we lost it in the very end, the way we played dog shit. We look knackered, so use the squad, even if there's a noticeable gap in quality, we're just dying on our feet in mot games.

We made four changes to the starting line up though. What other changes could we possible make? We're missing Martinez, Varane, Garnacho, McTominay, and VdB - all of whom would've started games over the last few weeks.

 

[Judas]

We made four changes to the starting line up though. What other changes could we possible make? We're missing Martinez, Varane, Garnacho, McTominay, and VdB - all of whom would've started games over the last few weeks.

Yeah injuries have hampered us massively, and I do forget that. As much as he's hated on here, we've missed McTominay coming off the bench especially in these types of games.

I'm impressed with how Lindelof and Shaw have coped in truth.

 

[Samoerai Jack]

First sentence sounds like a line out of a 90's action film - cute. Second sentence makes no sense - the overall sentiment of this thread has been positive regarding this manager. He's just not infallible, and people are rightly criticising and questioning him. We've had a substantial amount of shit-shows under him already.

I'm just echoing the structure of your post. If that sounds like a movie quote, then we've been cute together. There's been a plethora of negativity at the club, having been built up over the years after SAF left and Woodward's shitshow began. With ETH, as you've said, positivity has returned to United. To me, these overreactions to these away losses need to get a grounding in reality. I'm not seeing these rightful criticisms you speak off, I'm seeing meltdowns. Again, it's not about criticism or questioning, it's about losing perspective. SAF would comment with the same energy whether it was a massive win over Liverpool or a dreadful thumping from City. I would love it if United and its supporters could return to that level of composure.

 

[Anustart89]

No one is saying fatigue isn't a factor. Convincing ourselves it's the only reason we have been godawful for last 3 months is just burying our heads in the sands.

That's true, losing both our starting centre halves to injuries while having to move our main left back to centre half also contributes. Also, losing the cover we have on the wings to a long term injury so we have to persist with Martial/Weghorst up top contributes. Losing our only ball-playing midfielder for three months might also have something to do with why we haven't been able to keep up the form. And spending like six days on the training ground since November might also be a contributing factor due to having games every three days.

I mean, there definitely is some context to our recent performances. And despite that, we've 13 points from our last 18 possible in the league, but reading this place you'd think that we'd lost the last fifteen games.

 

[Kopral Jono]

With players desperately running out of petrol second half game management should come as his number one priority from now on.

 

[Revan]

You managed to pick out a team who has two first elevens and a team which fell off a cliff the start of the following season.

Oh, I guess we are conserving the energy for the next season then. Good to know that.

I also guess Liverpool's problems are cause they got so much tired last season, that despite two months rest, they were still tired. But somehow, after playing another 40+ games, are not tired anymore.

 

[el3mel]

Jesus you've turned into a proper miserable git on here lately.

So what would your solution be then? Sack him and start all over again? Or have a bit of patience and actually let him try and get us back to where we belong? Because I never expected it to all be sorted in one season.

And I think anyone with their head screwed on would be of the same opinion. But you go ahead and keep throwing your toys of the pram like you have the past few months if you makes you feel better.

Never in any of my posts did I suggested sacking him, but at the same time he's not immune from the idea in the near future depending on if next season is a repeat of this.

 

[Glorio]

Weggy must be scoring bucket loads of hat tricks in training

 

[Member 58925]

That's true, losing both our starting centre halves to injuries while having to move our main left back to centre half also contributes. Also, losing the cover we have on the wings to a long term injury so we have to persist with Martial/Weghorst up top contributes. Losing our only ball-playing midfielder for three months might also have something to do with why we haven't been able to keep up the form. And spending like six days on the training ground since November might also be a contributing factor due to having games every three days.

I mean, there definitely is some context to our recent performances. And despite that, we've 13 points from our last 18 possible in the league, but reading this place you'd think that we'd lost the last fifteen games.

He's not a real fan, and nor are the rest of the couch managers

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

I think it's fair to have at least a sprinkle of doubt about him. I'm really fond of him but deep down, I wonder if he's quite at the genius level of a Klopp, Guardiola or even, now, Arteta. Arteta might seem a knee-jerk shout based on one good season but I've seen videos of him coaching and he seems unbelievably good IMHO.

Erik's man management and media handling is more than decent, although the 'ehh' and little quirks make him lose a few points. Sounds shallow and barely significant but we're talking the demands on an absolutely elite leader here. Tactically Erik's solid but we're yet to see absolute inspiration here at United. His game management has been called into question numerous times and it's widely considered that his squad rotation is inadequate. We can give him the benefit of the doubt there in some respects, as it's not really his squad yet, but even Ajax fans said the same thing was true there. As for coaching, I'm pleased with his influence on the players this year. Maybe not blown away but pleased.

Youth development? It's been OK. He's handling Garnacho very well. He made the right call in loaning out Amad Diallo and Hannibal but certainly the former should be a first teamer next season IMHO. I'm not convinced we have this sparkling, abundant youth system that maybe the FA Youth Cup win last year might have had some people think but can't help but wonder if a couple of players are being left to stagnate a bit, i.e. Elanga, Pellistri, Iqbal. Ajax fans generally weren't all that gushing about ETH's youth integration. There were some seriously talented players that apparently Erik was very cautious in introducing despite them looking more than ready in Jong Ajax.

When it comes to transfers, not bad. Not massively imaginative, given he worked with Antony and Martinez, Casemiro and Eriksen are very well known, Malacia/Weghorst are Dutch and Sabitzer was loaned from one of ETH's former clubs. None of them were really hidden gems, barring possibly Malacia. I'm concerned that we may continue to miss out on exciting prospects, just as we did in the last 2 years with Caicedo, Enzo Fernandez and Julian Alvarez. Our scouts seem good enough to identify them but our managers don't seem to want to take the risk, and ETH seems no different. I have no clue why we didn't go for a striker last Summer when it was obvious we needed one. In fact, I recall Rangnick saying we needed at least one, maybe two.

This Summer will be massive. I kind of suspect we'll go for really obvious targets like Gravenberch, FDJ, Kane and co. It's fine if they are the right fit but my worry is that ETH doesn't seem imaginative or bold enough to go for someone a bit more of a wildcard like Hojlund, Vermeeren, Dedic, Vitor Roque etc. The ones that ultimately could prove to be incredible value rather than the ones who will cost an arm and a leg.

So basically, my view is that ETH is great. But does he have the x factor to really get United back to the top? I have my doubts. Don't get me wrong, I'd like him to stay for at least another 2 or 3 years and hopefully he'll thrive under new, better owners. I just don't know if he's the one to really take us where we dream to be.

 

[Manncunian]

Just get him as far away as possible from selecting who should join the squad and who should get contract extensions.

I feel if given a set of players who can truly play his style of football he will produce but the man is absolutely blinded by certain qualities he sees in some players even if they are totally the wrong fit.

How can he justify wanting to give DDG an extension if he can't pass to save his life. He adores Bruno but he's a bang average possession player. He allows Casemiro the freedom to pass the ball like he's Xabi Alonso. Continues to play Weghorst when it couldn't be clearer he's the biggest liability we've ever had in attack.

Murtough needs to gut this team for him and recreate a squad suited to his style because Ten Hag will not do it and will keep stubbornly trying to win games with players not fit for him.

Possibly the worst post I’ve ever seen on this forum. Or any football forum for that matter.

Put the drink away, stop embarrassing yourself, and go to bed.

 

[Solius]

Never in any of my posts did I suggested sacking him, but at the same time he's not immune from the idea in the near future depending on if next season is a repeat of this.

If the King dies, we only play one game in September, the rescheduled games get crammed in post Jan, we play every conceivable game bar three, we lose our main passing midfielder for three months, lose our first choice CBs for months, have our main striker throw a strop and leave mid season then yeah we might get a repeat.

 

[Member 58925]

Oh, I guess we are conserving the energy for the next season then. Good to know that.

I also guess Liverpool's problems are cause they got so much tired last season, that despite two months rest, they were still tired. But somehow, after playing another 40+ games, are not tired anymore.

Were you in a coma November and December of this year?

 

[JustinC00]

Brighton also cost a fraction of our squad, and changed managers in September. Imagine the defense here if ten Hag didn't have a pre-season, let alone had to come mid-season.

In 7 home matches against the top-10 De Zerbi is 2W-1D-4L with Brighton and the 2nd win he needed a 97th minute penalty that came from his player diving to get a free kick. Meanwhile ETH has made Old Trafford a fortress again.

 

[evil_geko]

That's true, losing both our starting centre halves to injuries while having to move our main left back to centre half also contributes. Also, losing the cover we have on the wings to a long term injury so we have to persist with Martial/Weghorst up top contributes. Losing our only ball-playing midfielder for three months might also have something to do with why we haven't been able to keep up the form. And spending like six days on the training ground since November might also be a contributing factor due to having games every three days.

I mean, there definitely is some context to our recent performances. And despite that, we've 13 points from our last 18 possible in the league, but reading this place you'd think that we'd lost the last fifteen games.

Exactly, context. I can't understand how all that you mentioned is so hard for some people to understand.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It is infantile to give the manager a second season and not overreact during his first season like petulant children? Ok.

No it’s infantile to label those that don’t agree as wrong/‘unreasonable’ & liken those making their points as ‘petulant children’, thanks for echoing the point.

You’re demanding people be constructive while continuing to do the opposite.

 

[Adnan]

Why are you guys surprised? We came up against a team who pressed high and had a build up phase, which started with their keeper. And this has been the case against every team we've faced that presses us high and we've got away in quite a few games, especially at home.

DDG and Wan Bissaka on the pitch together by default means we surrender on the ball control. But it also means that their lack of ability on the ball effects the players playing in advanced areas of the pitch due both players not being of the requisite level to play through the press and raise the defensive line, which means we can't press high, with only Martial trying to press multiple Brighton players in their back-line. And Bruno and Fred slightly behind him pushing onto the two Brighton midfielders.

DDG and Wan Bissaka are not top level players on the ball and with players like this occupying positions in the build up phase the opponent will always have the upper hand in possession due to their high press being more effective and ten Hag having to compromise by telling the keeper to kick it long. If the back 6 can't support the front 5 when it comes to playing the through the press, raising the defensive line, then there won't be a high press or overload potential in the opponent's half against teams who are technically adept in possession and who also press high effectively.

I'm completely with ten Hag and I fully believe in the way he wants to develop the team. But there's a number of players in the team who just aren't good enough against those teams who are technically strong in the first phase and are adept at pressing high. It's the same problem and something a lot of you will forget about, against those teams who allow us to build play from the back without applying high pressure.

The problem is staring me in the face and the players who are causing the biggest problems on the ball in the first phase are those players who are then lauded for their tackles and saves, when they're the root cause of why we give up possession and why ten Hag has to compromise on his principles of play.

Brighton are much better than us in the first phase of the build up, which starts with their keeper.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Dont know if this requires a or

Maybe both

You think 1 point in 8 away games is acceptable?

 

[evil_geko]

No it’s infantile to label those that don’t agree as wrong/‘unreasonable’ & liken those making their points as ‘petulant children’, thanks for echoing the point.

You’re demanding people be constructive while continuing to do the opposite.

Not demanding anything, I can't make people see context if they choose not to. That is their problem.

 

[Rustyspider13]

I thought his team selection was alright and it worked in the first half. Would've liked to see Eriksen on the pitch at some point, maybe Maguire to defend airballs in the last 5 mins. But that's hindsight talking, Brighton aren't particularly effective from setpieces according to the commentary.

One thing that has been bothering me though is why we keep going long when we have zero aerial threat. Is it because of DDG's limited ability? Or is it some inane tactic from EtH? We keep gifting sustained possession to the opposition. It happened against Spurs too. Our makeshift defense, as good as it has been, can't deal with that sustained pressure.

 

[Samoerai Jack]

I think it's fair to have some doubts about him. I'm really fond of him but deep down, I wonder if he's quite at the genius level of a Klopp, Guardiola or even, now, Arteta. Arteta might seem a knee-jerk shout based on one good season but I've seen videos of him coaching and he seems unbelievably good IMHO.

Erik's man management and media handling is more than decent, although the 'ehh' and little quirks make him lose a few points. Sounds shallow and barely significant but we're talking the demands on an absolutely elite leader here. Tactically Erik's solid but we're yet to see absolute inspiration here at United. His game management has been called into question numerous times and it's widely considered that his squad rotation is inadequate. We can give him the benefit of the doubt there in some respects but even Ajax fans said the same thing was true there. As for coaching, I'm pleased with his influence on the players this year. Maybe not blown away but pleased.

Youth development? It's been OK. He's handling Garnacho very well. He made the right call in loaning out Amad Diallo and Hannibal but certainly the former should be a first teamer next season IMHO. I'm not convinced we have this sparkling, abundant youth system that maybe the FA Youth Cup win last year might have had some people think. Ajax fans generally weren't gushing about ETH's youth integration. There were some players that apparently Erik was very cautious in introducing.

When it comes to transfers, not bad. Not massively imaginative, given he worked with Antony and Martinez, Casemiro and Eriksen are very well known, Malacia/Weghorst are Dutch and Sabitzer was loaned from one of ETH's former clubs. None of them were really hidden gems, barring possibly Malacia. I'm concerned that we may continue to miss out on exciting prospects like we did with Caicedo, Enzo Fernandez and Julian Alvarez. Our scouts seem good enough to identify them but our managers don't seem to want to take the risk, and ETH seems no different. I have no clue why we didn't go for a striker last Summer when it was obvious we needed one. In fact, I recall Rangnick saying we needed at least one, maybe two.

This Summer will be massive. I kind of suspect we'll go for really obvious targets like Gravenberch, FDJ, Kane and co. It's fine if they are the right fit but my worry is that ETH doesn't seem imaginative or bold enough to go for someone a bit more of a wildcard like Hojlund, Vermeeren, Dedic, Vitor Roque etc. The ones that ultimately could prove to be incredible value rather than the ones who will cost an arm and a leg.

So basically, my view is that ETH is great. But does he have the x factor to really get United back to the top? I have my doubts. Don't get me wrong, I'd like him to stay for at least another 2 or 3 years and hopefully he'll thrive under new, better owners. I just don't know if he's the one to really take us where we dream to be.

That's fair. ETH was a transformative, dominating influence on Ajax, yet his teams there did have a tendency to fold under heavy pressure. We'll have to see if that's something inherent to his coaching or to his previous club.

 

[Member 58925]

No it’s infantile to label those that don’t agree as wrong/‘unreasonable’ & liken those making their points as ‘petulant children’, thanks for echoing the point.

You’re demanding people be constructive while continuing to do the opposite.

Your agreement on whether the fixture congestion has an effect or not is 100% meaningless. You either understand or you don't, and you don't

 

[JustinC00]

The below needs sorting next season, simply not good enough, first season or not.

7W-2D-0L against the bottom-10 and those 2 draws were because of a soft penalty against us and a stonewall penalty for us not being given

 

[AndySmith1990]

Why are you guys surprised? We came up against a team who pressed high and had a build up phase, which started with their keeper. And this has been the case against every team we've faced that presses us high and we've got away in quite a few games, especially at home.

DDG and Wan Bissaka on the pitch together by default means we surrender on the ball control. But it also means that their lack of ability on the ball effects the players playing in advanced areas of the pitch due both players not being of the requisite level to play through the press and raise the defensive line, which means we can't press high, with only Martial trying to press multiple Brighton players in their back-line. And Bruno and Fred slightly behind him pushing onto the two Brighton midfielders.

DDG and Wan Bissaka are not top level players on the ball and with players like this occupying positions in the build up phase the opponent will always have the upper hand in possession due to their high press being more effective and ten Hag having to compromise by telling the keeper to kick it long. If the back 6 can't support the front 5 when it comes to playing the through the press, raising the defensive line, then there won't be a high press or overload potential in the opponent's half against teams who are technically adept and who also press high effectively.

I'm completely with ten Hag and I fully believe in the way he wants to develop the team. But there's a number of players in the team who just aren't good enough against those teams who are technically strong in the first phase and are adept at pressing high. It's the same problem and something a lot of you will forget about, against those teams who allow us to build play from the back without applying high pressure.

The problem is staring me in the face and the players who are causing the biggest problems on the ball in the first phase are those players who are then lauded for their tackles and saves, when they're the root cause of why we give up possession and why ten Hag has to compromise on his principles of play.

Brighton are much better than us in the first phase of the build up, which starts with their keeper.

Explain why we're trying to extend De Gea's contract when he's such a hindrance to the way Ten Hag wants to play? I agree btw, but I can't fathom why the rumours aren't about us letting De Gea leave when he's clearly a problem

 

[Bubz27]

Why not use City (this season) or Liverpool (last season) who played as many games (in the case of Liverpool more than we can play this season), and you know, didn't look totally clueless?

Brighton also cost a fraction of our squad, and changed managers in September. Imagine the defense here if ten Hag didn't have a pre-season, let alone had to come mid-season.

City this season and Liverpool last season are better than us this season, it's really that simple. Both teams have had managers in place for 5+ years (they've earnt that right) and both had/have better squads than us. If we want to compare them, Pep's first season was fourth and Klopp's 8th wasn't it? I know he came in half way through.

And we have to give Brighton credit here. Their strength isn't in any individual. It's their entire team, on and off the pitch. That's something we need to build towards. In the meantime, I'll take a top 4 finish, chance at a couple of trophies and another season with Ten Hag to see where we are.

My entire point with ten Hag is that he's done enough to back him this summer and see where we are in 12 months. Be ridiculous not to. We can't keep judging managers with a squad of technically and mentally inept, average players.

 

[Solius]

Explain why we're trying to extend De Gea's contract when he's such a hindrance to the way Ten Hag wants to play? I agree btw, but I can't fathom why the rumours aren't about us letting De Gea leave when he's clearly a problem

It’s widely reported he will be lowering his wages. I’m assuming de Gea will stick around as number 2 and we will sign a new keeper.

 

[kouroux]

He's not a real fan, and nor are the rest of the couch managers

We're all couch managers

 

[Dec9003]

If the King dies, we only play one game in September, the rescheduled games get crammed in post Jan, we play every conceivable game bar three, we lose our main passing midfielder for three months, lose our first choice CBs for months, have our main striker throw a strop and leave mid season then yeah we might get a repeat.

This is all fair, and nobody is saying it hasn’t been a challenging season, though our main passing midfielder, if you mean Eriksen, was an unused substitute tonight whilst we struggled and again brought in players like Weghorst and Sancho that have struggled to be consistently effective. We can’t just say oh yeah but we’ve played quite a few matches whenever Ten Hag makes questionable subs that give the opposition the momentum.

 

[bosnian_red]

Explain why we're trying to extend De Gea's contract when he's such a hindrance to the way Ten Hag wants to play? I agree btw, but I can't fathom why the rumours aren't about us letting De Gea leave when he's clearly a problem

Because we don't have unlimited money to spend and have to prioritize combined with pick between targets.

 

[TsuWave]

I'm just echoing the structure of your post. If that sounds like a movie quote, then we've been cute together. There's been a plethora of negativity at the club, having been built up over the years after SAF left and Woodward's shitshow began. With ETH, as you've said, positivity has returned to United. To me, these overreactions to these away losses need to get a grounding in reality. I'm not seeing these rightful criticisms you speak off, I'm seeing meltdowns. Again, it's not about criticism or questioning, it's about losing perspective. SAF would comment with the same energy whether it was a massive win over Liverpool or a dreadful thumping from City. I would love it if United and its supporters could return to that level of composure.

I said your sentence, nothing about structure. Only one of us is writing Steven Seagal dialogue - "it's the manner of criticism and questioning that separates a brat from a man" what the feck, but alas

It's not overreaction to say we've been shite for a while - we have. It's also no overreaction to question his penchant for playing Wout Weghorst. Similarly, it's also not an overreaction to point out how bad we've been away from home all season - resulting in some of the worst defeats in the history of this club - all under this manager. There are plenty of those posts here, if you choose to overlook them to say "I'm only seeing meltdowns" then that's on you and not really reflective of what's happening in this thread.

I don't care for a drive down memory lane about Ferguson, so I'll leave you alone with that.

 

[Berbaclass]

Sky bias for Brigton was disgusting. They were okay, we had better chances than them but it was annoying me that they were suggesting Brighton would have been unlucky to get only a point pre-penalty.

 

[Solius]

This is all fair, and nobody is saying it hasn’t been a challenging season, though our main passing midfielder, if you mean Eriksen, was an unused substitute tonight whilst we struggled and again brought in players like Weghorst and Sancho that have struggled to be consistently effective. We can’t just say oh yeah but we’ve played quite a few matches whenever Ten Hag makes questionable subs that give the opposition the momentum.

I agree and think he should’ve made subs earlier too, but this thread is absolutely mental after a bad result.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Because we don't have unlimited money to spend and have to prioritize combined with pick between targets.

Based on what Adnan posted our priority should be a new keeper, as our inability to play out from the back is where all our problems begin

 

[pascell]

7W-2D-0L against the bottom-10 and those 2 draws were because of a soft penalty against us and a stonewall penalty for us not being given

If we want to get top 4 next season, our away form has to improve, we have been far too shaky.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Just get him as far away as possible from selecting who should join the squad and who should get contract extensions.

To be fair, this should be the rule for any manager. The manager should give his input but shouldn't be the sole decision maker for all football operations.