Don’t think there’s anything to be gained by publicly shaming someone who’s obviously shit.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Don’t think there’s anything to be gained by publicly shaming someone who’s obviously shit.
He's not going to come out and say he's shite, is he? Especially now that we're going to have to rely on him for the rest of the season. That would be amateur level man management.
We all know that EtH doesn't rate Maguire, at least not for how he wants to play. If he did, Maguire would have started more games this season, and not just as a last resort. He preferred playing Shaw as a CB for periods earlier in the season.
This is where the gradual build of the first selection becomes a task across multiple windows and years, budget willing.
DDG isn't the proper gk in the perceived EtH system, that's obvious. But he's good enough and able to adapt his game a little bit. EtH has had to adjust a little bit too, but the overall principles are there. Playing those passes to Maguire, trying to sweep, act as an outlet, trying to understand how to pass through and around a press trigger, etc.
The principles are in place and when someone who is the correct fit is available, they slot in and with the foundations (principles) already in place, we go from strength to strength.
Allison was signed for massive money but elevated pool because they didn't totally compromise their principles waiting for a gk to arrive.
EtH knows it has to be a process. Per usual, he's having to drive the car while building it.
On another hand he doesn't have to go overboard with such level of praise. That's getting on the fans nerves as well.
It's fine to have some criticisms but most of these are poorly thought out.
Admittedly the big losses are hard to account for, most of them have been complete mental collapses. However, in recent years we've had to watch the team get repeatedly pummeled at home, or kept at arms length, by mid-table clubs and relegation fodder. Ole's best season came when games were being played behind closed doors. It's probably no coincidence that our away form tanked as soon as stadiums opened up again. At least OT is looking like a fortress this season. Also, outside of the top 6 and that early Brentford match, we've done ok away from home when we've had a full strength team out. We were unlucky not to beat Barca on their home patch. Definitely needs to be improved, especially against big clubs.
Antony and Martinez were expensive, we overpaid because we were desperate and Ajax had already been ransacked before we came knocking. But both of them have already looked like more successful signings than players like Maguire and Sancho. At the very least you can see what role they're supposed to play. This is a better way of signing players than just going for the biggest names or shiniest new toy.
Eriksen is a stop gap at #8, he plays him there because he offers more control than Fred or McTominay. He's not the most press resistant player, which can cause us issues, but he's the best we have at linking the defense through to attack.
He's overused those players you've mentioned because they're the only ones who can play at a consistently high level. He trusts a few others to do a job, but barely. We don't have anyone who can fill in for Rashford and Bruno unfortunately, we should do, but we just don't. Varane is the one player he has been rotating. He never plays 3 games in a week because of a persistent injury problem he's had all season, I think with his ankle.
I imagine the manager does want a clear out, but you need someone to buy those players first. We're stuck with a lot of players on expensive contracts, who either will not or shouldn't ever play for the club again. You also have to be careful how you handle a squad rebuild. Preferably you get in your replacements first, but in our care case we have to wait to unload them first to free up space on the wage bill. We also lost a lot of experienced players in the summer; Pogba, Matic, Lingard, Cavani, Mata. They probably all needed to go, but that's a lot of know how you've lost there. Think of all the cup finals those guys have played?
I'm my opinion, we've appointed a very good manager who could be very successful for us if we can provide the right tools. He's taken over a team comprised of players who have played under 5 very different managers, most of whom should never have been signed to begin with. He's had to try and unravel that mess, deal with the Ronaldo fall out, sideline the club captain, and all with the backdrop of a club takeover stretching endlessly into the horizon, which has also meant the purse strings slammed shut for January. I think he's done a better job so far than most people on here give him credit for, especially if you try and remember how low morale was at the end of last season and the Ralf experiment.
He will be sold in the summer what good would it be to slate him off now? We are forced to play him for the rest of the season so we as fans and the manager better have his back. In the summer he can feck off obviously.
Well, he didn't say he is the example during the game.
Only fans who aren't able to see the bigger picture. You've got a player who is clearly at rock bottom confidence and knows he has about a month left as United captain (and probably as a United player). Our first choice centre-halves are injured so Maguire is going to need to play almost every game - why the hell would any United fan be irritated by the manager doing what he can to get the best out of him?
What's happened man - you used to be one of the sensible ones?!
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There's inbetween slaughtering him and overpraising him. He can support him without going overboard.
Any United fan after last game should be irritated by that clown being called "example for the team".
Fairly normal response if you think it through.
He's probably getting directly asked about Harry Maguire, for a start. I don't think he's gone into a monologue on the virtues of Harry, which would indeed be strange at this point. He's prompted to respond to a question, and you have a few options.
You can slaughter him, and join in with fans, pundits, the media. Probably not very professional, even if it is honest. You can play the straight bat, say a lot without saying anything at all, maybe offer up some generic statement about improving. Probably okay, but not very Dutch and probably just produces a neutral response from the player, it certainly wouldn't tell anybody anything they can't already surmise. Or finally, you say something positive, offer some contrast to the dissenting voices so the player feels you have his back to some extent. Then when you pick him, which he may have to, he feels that. This may not even be honestly held opinion, but the manager isn't there to be a saint, the conference is just a tool to engage with fans and indirectly to his players and achieve an outcome.
He's probably getting directly asked about Harry Maguire, for a start. I don't think he's gone into a monologue on the virtues of Harry, which would indeed be strange at this point. He's prompted to respond to a question, and you have a few options.
You can slaughter him, and join in with fans, pundits, the media. Probably not very professional, even if it is honest. You can play the straight bat, say a lot without saying anything at all, maybe offer up some generic statement about improving. Probably okay, but not very Dutch and probably just produces a neutral response from the player, it certainly wouldn't tell anybody anything they can't already surmise. Or finally, you say something positive, offer some contrast to the dissenting voices so the player feels you have his back to some extent. Then when you pick him, which he may have to, he feels that. This may not even be honestly held opinion, but the manager isn't there to be a saint, the conference is just a tool to engage with fans and indirectly to his players and achieve an outcome.
Beside, if he's calling a player "example for the team" while planning to sell him in summer, tell my why any player will believe him from now on when he supports him in public ?
Maybe consider the fact that when he says he's an example, it seems to be in reference to his personality around the team and specifically in training?
This may well be true. He's not stating his performances are a reference point. He's picking out a positive idea around Maguire. It might be the only positive idea he can go for!
Harry Maguire might be a shit footballer at this level of club but he may be an important part of a dressing room as an individual and he may be a very good trainer. Indeed, this is something that former teammates seem to reflect on about him as he made it from lower clubs to United and it would also explain why he has been given captaincy.
He was the leader of the team who won jack shit for 2 years and had a disastrous season last year. If he was that good in motivating the team in the dressing room we would have seen it. The reality is he's an awful captain and actually him having the armband is far more annoying than his awful performance.
Agreed, it's a very straight forward and 'all bases covered' approach.
If ETH stays silent and doesn't 'back' De Gea or Maguire with at least some faint praise of their professionalism and how he counts on them (even if everybody knows it's just lip service), then the 'silence' will be deafening and put even more pressure on them. It's a lose-lose situation. ETH isn't here to play dressing room politics, change a club's mentality, recruitment, create a longstanding philosophy and winning culture, deal with a club sale and along with the injuries and issues when his first year hasn't even finished.
Granted he's not been perfect and has created/or could have mitigated some of the issues himself but the criticism is just emotions right now.
I honestly think you just want to grumble at this point. You didn't even place the observation within it's context that it was about training and personality originally because it was far more dramatic to moan about if it was taken in the abstract - "Harry Maguire is a reference point." That was probably the clue as to what you're going for here and that you're never going to really consider the wider point around picking out a positive attribute in Maguire, even if it is a transparently minor one and not a complete defence. As soon as you saw the statement and that it was positive + Maguire you were probably already frothing at the mouth and forgot to comprehend it.
Captains don't win trophies, the team does. Captains only operate within the margins of what the ability in the team and the structure is, and yes then they can have some influence or persuasion, that's their job but it isn't going to counteract current personnel, awful management, awful recruitment.
He needs him due to injuries so he tries to build him up. Simple
Nah you're the one over-interpreting it. Ten Hag is clearly lying to support him for the remainder of the season. People think this is fine. IMO it makes it hard for players to believe any kind of support coming from him later on. You could support him by things like "He's a good player, had an off-day but will learn from such mistakes and am sure will help the team in coming games and will return to his form". No need for the over-drama.
Though I think Ten Hag's English language didn't help him either.
Robbie dosent live on that planet. He thinks everything is a straight line. Mostly because it’s so difficult between them.
There is no point for ETH to start talking sh*t about any player at this point. He also said that players are not able to recover from setbacks during the game, which is good because he admitted that in public, implying he will get rid of a lot of players. You just hope he will be able to do that this summer. If he can't (which is possible), he still has to work with them, and there's no point burning too many bridges until he can.
Now, what about his own capabilities? We will have to wait and see.
Clearly some here don't know there's a level between completely shitting over a player and going overboard with the praise.
I know. My response was to the melt making an issue out of it.
We have to sell players as well. No point shooting on then and driving the price down.
Maguire is gone in the summer, but until then we'll have to rely on him, given our injury woes.
Criticizing Ten Hag for defending his players (even if it's "overboard") really is a new level of stupid. No manager worth his salt would do anything but in this situation.
Maguire is gone in the summer, but until then we'll have to rely on him to produce, given our injury woes.
Criticizing Ten Hag for defending his players (even if it's "overboard") really is a new level of stupid. No manager worth his salt would do anything but in this situation.
So it's fine for the manager to lie in public saying a player he's willing to sell is an "example for the team". Why should any other player in the squad believe him whenever he tries to support them in public ? He can be planning to sell them as well.
Sorry, I value honesty between the manager and his players instead of all this shitty drama and lying in public.
Beside, as I said, he can support him by saying nice words without going overboard, but as I said, clearly some of you don't understand the difference.
I like the look of that team I must admit.
Caciedo would be a huge signing.
At this point I think you've lost your mind. You are completely ignoring the context that @Abraxas pointed out. "Shitty drama and lying in public" - wtaf?!
ETH has a battle ahead with the board to get them to spend money on at least 7 top players, clear out the dross ruthlessly. If things don't change next season the fans will turn on him. Has done a good job so far but it's on the line where I find flaws in him. And for heavens sake do not sign Weghorst!!
From the tweet, it seems like the quote is referring to Maguire's leadership and his role as club captain, not his ability (or lack thereof). Hardly "overboard praise". I see nothing wrong with anything he said.
I'm so tired of these PR talks, Robbie
It's completely fine/important for a manager to defend his players in public, even if it involves saying things that might not be true. SAF did it plenty of times.
Neither you or I or anyone else on here have a fecking clue about what is said behind the scenes, and the private communications between Ten Hag and the players. That's a completely different topic.
You really write a lot of stupid shite.
No one is forcing you to read my "stupid shit". You can put me on the ignore list.
I'm aware of that, thanks.
No it wasn’t. It’s same sly dig you always come up with. Building up your misery.
This.
It's incredible how fans who follow football still don't know it works.
They see the headlines and seem to assume the manager has off his own back come out and said this stuff.
When very obviously a journalist will ask a trap of a question.
"What do you think of Maguire's form"
He has to say some positives or the press will spin it into a big divisive story.
Being hammered in so many away games this year is completely unacceptable. The worrying thing is we don’t seem to be learning from it.
He’s an improvement on OGS, which isn’t really that much of an achievement.
He’s handled some things absolutely perfectly, like the Ronaldo situation for example. And getting Utd a much needed trophy.
But his away form is utterly shocking.
I think it’ll be clear next season whether or not he’s got what it takes to bring real success back to Utd.
He’s handled some things absolutely perfectly, like the Ronaldo situation for example. And getting Utd a much needed trophy.
But his away form is utterly shocking.
I think it’ll be clear next season whether or not he’s got what it takes to bring real success back to Utd.
I agree that he's not going to come out and say he's shite, but he also doesn't need to big him up. If Maguire is here next season ETH will lose a lot of credibility with fans.
My worry is that he'll be let down in the transfer market this summer, and that combined with our key players getting older could cause us to seriously regress next season.
Of course he needs to big him up a) his confidence is shot to bits, and b) we presumably want to get as much money for him as possible in the summer. ETH's view of Maguire as a professional (which is what he was asked about) is clearly very different than his view of him as a suitable player (which I think he has made pretty clear by picking pretty much anyone instead of him at centre-half...even Luke Shaw).
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