I just hope they give him another year if we dont get CL. Generally no CL and you're out. But I would like to see what he does next summer if he gets a decent sized budget again. My worry is that there's less than 100m next summer and we are doing it on the cheap. Forget about January transfers!
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I disagree with you.
We've spent 200 +mil this summer, he needs to finish top 4. Especially given the circumstances at Chelsea/Liverpool.
There's not a chance that ten Hag gets sacked at the end of this season. Assuming we are competitive for top 4 of course.
No he doesn't, bedding tons of new players in, learning new tactics etc. Will people start looking at things with context and not with fecking money involved ffs? "Oh Antony was 100 mil, he must dribble past 8 players and score every game" "Oh we spent tons of money, we must start playing great football right away". No, things don't work in that simplistic way.
Oh look, Nottingham Forest spent TONS of money on new players, I guess they must get at least minimum middle of the table by that logic right?
Ten Hag is starting to make decisions I'm a bit befuddled with. Heaton? Never plays. Maguire? Not good enough for the first XI. De Gea? Probably on his way out. Bruno? Whinges too much for my liking. Also none of them have won anything except DDG. So what examples are they supposed to be setting?
Nope. Not in the slightest. Ajax showed me what an ETH team can be over many years with many different players and that excites me. That is what I want for us.
Someone who never plays but behaves professionally can set a good example for players in a similar squad position, so I don't have an issue with Heaton.
De Gea I think also is someone who always acts professionally, he is overpaid and lacks some skills, but if this is about attitude I think he is fine.
But I share your doubts on Maguire and Bruno
what did they do though? One CL semi, Early Europa league exits and winning the Dutch league? I want much better for us
Eh so winning a league here (like he could only do there) and a semi final spot isn’t good enough. He could hardly win the PL with them. Another 10 years of mediocrity is needed for a lot of the fanbase. Far too entitled.
I like this honesty. We are not at their level and he wants us to do better instead of looking for excuses
Yep we need possession players brought in via the transfer window and lots more training on the routines in and out of possession for prob a year until it’s natural.
I've yet to hear exactly what to expect from an ETH team from the hundreds of posters that convinced us all he was the right option. The ideas about what type of football to expect are inconsistent depending who you ask. We heard a lot of good things about him, then when we got him we started to suddenly hear from those that watched Ajax about all these deficiencies in his management, how he's slow to react in game, has no presence on the touchline, how Ajax got exposed by certain teams and he had no answer, his lack of rotation and pigheaded nature to giving youngsters a chance etc etc.
Perhaps you can give some good insight if you're so sure? What's his style of play and how will it translate into us becoming a dominant team?
in a nutshell I am not impressed by winning the Dutch league. Frank De Boer won hella titles. a semi final spot is not memorable.
How much more were you expecting from Ajax?
nothing really. Just didn't make me want to run home and tell folks about them.
His style of play is very much possession orientated with creating a lot of chances. Not quite Pep style but probably the most comparable at the top levels at the moment. I assure you he isn't happy with the performances so far, probably even the wins against Pool and Arsenal but this is the players he has to do with at the moment. Also I fully expect things to get better as he has more time to coach the players. For instance Sancho is someone who should fit his style but he hasn't shown enough yet.
What ETH wants most is a team that can go away to City and play the same style as they do against Forest at home. This will take proper time, just like it took Pep time even though he walked into a much better squad of players.
If you want to see first hand what he wants then go watch his Ajax team beat Real Madrid in Madrid. Thats what he wants. I don't know how long it will take us to get to playing like that but I definitely want that too.
Pep and Klopp faced the exact same questions at this point of their management of Liverpool and City too. Not saying he'll ever reach that level but as far as I'm concerned he's the only manager who possibly could. Otherwise lets appease the likes of you and appoint the likes of Conte and Tuchel and bore ourselves to death.
This is the first manager since SAF that has a vision and is brave enough to try to make happen so either accept that is takes time and, hell, even might not work out in the end or join the millions of entitled United fans who weirdly think we are some sort of top team, despite watching the mess we've been for 10 years. A mess, by the way, that directly affects how instantly successful ETH can be. He took over a joke of a club, not a successful one set up for him to flourish like Pep (and it still took him a season to adapt).
So the question actually is what do fans like you expect at this point of the season?
What's to question about his achievements there then if he pretty much maxed out what you can expect from any Ajax team.
Heaton has been spoken about quite often as one of the key personalities in the dressing room. He wasn't bought to play every week, nor every month.
I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is, but I just really like the bloke. I think it's the short concise answers he gives in interviews/pre match pressers, and how he just gets on with business. I honestly think more than any others post Fergie, we'll ultimately be rewarded by this appointment.
He beat Real Madrid who had won three CL's in a row and a good Juventus side on his way to that semi final. It was definitely memorable and it will be a long time until we see Ajax in a CL semi final again.
When I watch us I just don't see a team that is looking to play possession based football, that is my gripe. To me we look more like a team that is built to try to play in fast transitions. Do we want to press? ETH says we do but I'd say our press has been average to non-existent so far. We build a lot in wide areas and in some games have focused heavily on putting crosses into the box. This is where I am at odds with when some claim he is a possession based manager. I imagine in Eredivisie that Ajax dominated possession by default as they had much more quality compared to the other teams - they were the Man City of that division such was the gulf in quality. Particularly going back to around 2019 when they had a good group of players come through their system.
Watching the highlights and reading the stats from the Real Madrid game that you reference, I feel this only backs up my point. They scored 3 goals through turnovers and quick transitions, with the final goal coming through an outrageous freekick. The stats suggest Real Madrid dominated the game in terms of possession, despite the scoreline. Sounds familiar (Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool this season).
Fair enough, it will absolutely take time to implement his style. However, I don't see the 'makings' of a possession based side or a team that is building towards that right now. In my opinion you have to be dominant to be a top team, so that is the natural progression that I am looking for. I'm not calling for his head, but more looking for reassurance that this is what he is trying to do. Pep and Klopp struggled initially but I watched City and Liverpool and could see what they were trying to do. I've seen many managers take over worse teams and stamp their style on a team quickly - even if results were further down the road whilst it was perfected.
Regarding Tuchel and Conte - yes I would have been happy with either at various points over the last few years. I've seen Tuchel build dominant teams that play great football. I felt like he was 80% of the way there with Chelsea but needed to solve a few problem areas in their team. They still dominated games though. Conte may not be a possession based manager but I felt he was the right character to get a grip of our squad. Plus I always respect what he did at Chelsea, his 343 was revolutionary and, I wouldn't admit it at the time as he was/is a c*ck when he's managing the opposition, but I enjoyed watching them play. Tactically I think he's a very strong manager. He made an instant impact on them and I thought he could have done the same here.
Did we? What do we have to show for it? Not like we created anything of sorts in 1st half. I think, that this is some sort of illusion, because we weren't defensive we must have been aggressive. But we weren't really. Which is part of the issue. If ETH would have setup the team guns blazing, I'd say alright, cool - very brave, maybe too brave even but whatever. But there is nothing to suggest that this was the plan at all.
Feels good seeing such posts because I felt I was one of the only ones.
No not at all. He has been here for what is like 20minutes. After almost 10 years of non- and mismanagement. I think, we have to accept, that he isn't sort of lightbringer who will instantly enable us to skip some steps between our current place and a spot at the sun. It is a tricky thing - being fickle is as bad as being overly optimistic. Lets see what he can do, he has shown, he can build functional teams and there is no reason to suggest, he shouldn't be able to replicate that with us. We all knew, the challenge ahead was very big and I think, not even him realized how big it was. But doubting or being concerned - no, makes no sense, way too little of a sample size.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for all things regarding the transfer window. If some of the bad things repeat themselves he is to be held accountable as well. He is adjusting to the league, to being the key position of a huge club with a team without a potent backbone, style of play or recent success to build up from. He has shown to be a progressive modern coach and he proofed to create a team able to beat above their weight class. It was the right move of the club, the best decision since ages. Signs are there he won't be an instant hit, I see that too, but so be it. We didn't do anything to deserve an easy route out of where we are, where years of bad decision brought us. The pain of digging ourselves out there is necessary.
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I agree with your assessment. Wouldn't overstate it though as what you describe was the little we had in terms of a gameplan during the last years. So it isn't too shocking that we tend to fall back into it. Pressing is also a very very difficult thing to implement, you'd need the fitness levels, the organisation and the tactical understanding. As nobody instructed our players in that for ages, this will take some time. Possession wise, I think, pre-season showed the direction he wants to go, making use of the ball but not for the sake of it.
Zero doubts about his ability but some of the hype after beating Pool and Arsenal was ridiculous. We probably don't even deserve to be 6th based on underlying data with xG, PPDA etc.
I'm also certain that we're on the right track.
It's been so few matches it's crazy to judge him. You have to give him at least 20 to get a feel of how he's doing.
Practically half his matches have been City, Pool and Arsenal. We never play the same way against them as we will tomorrow night.
Practically half his matches have been City, Pool and Arsenal. We never play the same way against them as we will tomorrow night.
Very pleased with him. He's obviously a top manager and I like what he's doing despite the result in the last game.
And what does your point have with finishing top 4 ?
As I said he really should be finishing top 4 and I'm sure if we don't finish top 4 he himself will view this season as a failure.
The things that City do, it’s very easy to see what their weaknesses are and how to attack them. The issue is execution. They are incredibly well coached and they have top top talent. But there is a reason Pep hasn’t won the CL yet. Of course, if you do not execute and play well vs City, the pressure will continue to build and very difficult to cope with for 90 minutes. But you saw in the CL ties vs Real Madrid last season. Despite being ahead in the tie, Pep and the squad only play one way. Instead of moving to a 4-4-2 and shutting up shop, they continued to hold a high line against a very talented Real side. Is that good management? Is it arrogance? Is it smart?
I guess my preference would be for Ten Hag to create a side that is tactically flexible, who can thump clubs like Everton away by superior possession and technique, but also can win those very difficult fixtures against top clubs by being pragmatic and tactically smart.
How come? There are four better sides in the league. United spent a lot of money this summer admittedly, but so did many other sides, and ETH has only been here this season. It would be pretty pointless to sack him for not getting top 4 in his first season, as long as there were encouraging signs.
Who are the 4 better sides in the league ? I'll give you Arsenal and City.
Arsenal , City, Liverpool and Chelsea are all better sides. They're the ones I predicted to get top 4 in the summer and I'm pretty confident that's how it'll play out. Chelsea finished 16 points ahead of United last season, and Liverpool finished 34 points ahead.
Because all what I have said influences finish at the end of the season, what do you mean what does my point have to do with it, wtf?!
Doesn't matter what happened the season before. We finished above both of those teams the season before that...
I’m with you, I find it anbsolutely infuriating that I am not at the end of my journey before I have taken my first step.
Interesting you say that. I thought it was Antony who was at fault, leaving the RW position to press inside leading to city playing around him ending in a 2v1 against Dalot which BTW happened multiple times in first half.
I don't really disagree with that logic, things can change quickly in football, but 34 points is a heck of a lot, and Klopp has had many years with this Liverpool side. I'm not sure how you can expect ETH to be finishing ahead of them considering the context.
ETH will need some time and patience.
But Eddie Howe has had an year while ETH has had 3-4 months.
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