Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[crossy1686]

So those young players aren't a problem, as you say. As for those experienced players, I don't see any that would really only work uniquely with the football Ten Hag is playing. As long as the squad is consistent in terms of player profiles (as it hasn't been in ages, and at this point still isn't), many coaches should be able to replace Ten Hag without requiring another full squad overhaul.

My only concern is the profile of the player. Outside of Yoro this summer, we seem to be shopping around for more Ten Hag specific players who haven’t been able to replicate form outside of his Ajax team. Long way to go yet before the window closes but we’ll see how it all unfolds come September.

 

[dutchred]

My only concern is the profile of the player. Outside of Yoro this summer, we seem to be shopping around for more Ten Hag specific players who haven’t been able to replicate form outside of his Ajax team. Long way to go yet before the window closes but we’ll see how it all unfolds come September.

Ugarte is not a ETH ex player, and I doubt if there is a better Centre Half that De Ligt who is currently available, given his age and experience

 

[Crimson King]

My only concern is the profile of the player. Outside of Yoro this summer, we seem to be shopping around for more Ten Hag specific players who haven’t been able to replicate form outside of his Ajax team. Long way to go yet before the window closes but we’ll see how it all unfolds come September.

The only Ten Hag specific players we look to be signing are De Ligt and Mazraoui, if they come. De Ligt we only seem to be going for because we couldn't make any headway with Everton for Branthwaite.

Mazraoui I can accept his career stalled somewhat, but De Ligt has won titles and is probably a better player now then when he was a teenager. People just have the perception he has 'failed' somehow because he hasn't lived up to the 'generational talent' billing they gave him, but he's still had a very good career up to this point.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Anyone who thinks Ten Hag's views will not be important when it comes to signings is silly.

Ashworth has literally just come in, it would be absurd to instantly lay down the gauntlet of "this is the style we want, these are the players you're working with" especially after a pretty prickly introduction between the two.

Also TBF the manager should be consulted in my opinion. I think De Ligt is a good player and Mazraoui is fine.

 

[NLunited]

I find it hard to believe, but it certainly looks like it doesn't it? It's quite unusual (as shown in some of the posts above) how many ETH-related players we get/chase, it's a non refutable fact. As I said before, I was not too bothered about it once we got new owners that were supposed to run this like a serious football club and take control over transfers, but it doesn't seem to be the case. That, OR somehow all best available players are actually ETH-related, what I find hard to believe.

It makes perfect sense for me. I would be worried if no former players wanted to play for Ten Hag.

There are players we could be in for that don‘t want to come here: no CL football, rain, lack of sun and too much precipitation.

 

[Borys]

It makes perfect sense for me. I would be worried if no former players wanted to play for Ten Hag.

There are players we could be in for that don‘t want to come here: no CL football, rain, lack of sun and too much precipitation.

That's a very clever way to spin this, but we both know that's not a problem. What is IMO is we're fishing in a very small pond. If the process of identifying targets starts with "ok, so we need a RB, let's check who played under Ten Hag and if anyone is available", then we will be missing out on 99% of the football world. And it's not about Ten Hag, we could've had a manager who comes from a small village from Argentina and all his recommendations come from there, that would also be a problem - not with the manager, but how the club is run.

Agreed on a second point though. But if that's the case, maybe we should just get a manager that all young players liked to work with and with France, Spain, Germany etc working history. I am being half serious here obviously, because I also find it a bit funny coming with all those scenarios why this is "normal" that we're chasing mostly players who have links to our manager. It's not normal, regardless of the profile/quality of the players - which I admit I know nothing about as I don't follow this element until they are actually United players. I am yet to see how Zirksee kicks football for example.

 

[Wolfbot]

Very concerned about the season ahead. It's OK saying pre-season results don't matter, but to have a lot of chances, fail to take any, and concede three reeks of the same issues as the season just past.

I understand the team was missing players but presumably so was Liverpool. Having doubts Ten Hag us going to perform differently in the season to come.

 

[crossy1686]

It makes perfect sense for me. I would be worried if no former players wanted to play for Ten Hag.

There are players we could be in for that don‘t want to come here: no CL football, rain, lack of sun and too much precipitation.

I would suggest that it actually has nothing to do with Ten Hag and everything to do with the fact these players aren’t really fancied at their current clubs and there’s nothing quite like being booted out of the likes of Bayern and ending up at United because your mate is trying to get the band back together.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Very concerned about the season ahead. It's OK saying pre-season results don't matter, but to have a lot of chances, fail to take any, and concede three reeks of the same issues as the season just past.

I understand the team was missing players but presumably so was Liverpool. Having doubts Ten Hag us going to perform differently in the season to come.

I don’t know where we are at to be honest. Thought there was some great football against Pool at times. Rashford looked really sharp at times , I really did get the impression he’s starting to look back to his self; surprised I don’t see that written much anywhere. His body language was different in a good way.

Hoijland was the big injury for me. We just still can’t afford not having a front man. The issue against pool was moreso taking our chances.

That said, with Garnacho , Bruno and a fit Hoijland you’d expect a better outcome. Also with an entirely different defence and Mainoo you’d expect even more effective football to the snippets of quality we saw at times.

I’ve actually talked myself back into optimistism in the last paragraph. I’m nearly more worried about injuries destroying our season then anything else.

 

[OldTrevil]

We still have a lot of players that cannot hack the high intensity, technical and dynamic football that we need to challenge at the top. As long as the likes of McT, Maguire, Casemiro, Lindelof and AWB are stilll around it's hard to see how EtH manages his way to consistent performances. After that you have the next group of suspects in Rashford and Bruno, who could succeed in such a system but not as the main cogs. So it all depends in the type of business we do for the remainder of this window. If we get in some key players and EtH and his team do not revert to sticking with players based on their status in the squad, then there is a chance for a good and enjoyable season.

 

[iato89]

There is already a bad vibe about the season. FA cup saved ETH but if we start badly all the media will be on him and those fans that changed their minds due to one game will go again full on against ETH. This wont end well.

 

[GaryLifo]

the 3 new coaches have had just 2 weeks to work with the depleted squad. i think it's fair to say we did see signs of a better style of play versus liverpool. However, we need to give the new coaches time to work with the full squad before judging anything. As hard as it is to accept, you have to largely bin off keep harping back to the last two seasons as I think they don't really factor into united now under the new structure.

 

[Sarni]

I would suggest that it actually has nothing to do with Ten Hag and everything to do with the fact these players aren’t really fancied at their current clubs and there’s nothing quite like being booted out of the likes of Bayern and ending up at United because your mate is trying to get the band back together.

We are currently a level below Bayern and do not aspire for the same things, it makes sense to pick up players not wanted by them. Teams have done the same with former Madrid players, with success.

Their goal is winning CL, ours is making it to Europe next year.

 

[AltiUn]

We are currently a level below Bayern and do not aspire for the same things, it makes sense to pick up players not wanted by them. Teams have done the same with former Madrid players, with success.

Their goal is winning CL, ours is making it to Europe next year.

Aye, Bayern are so good they can afford to let really good players go, doesn't make them not worth picking up.

 

[crossy1686]

We are currently a level below Bayern and do not aspire for the same things, it makes sense to pick up players not wanted by them. Teams have done the same with former Madrid players, with success.

Their goal is winning CL, ours is making it to Europe next year.

Isn't everyone's ambition to play in and win the CL? I'm not saying the players Bayern are letting go aren't good players, I'm saying that if you're going to be booted out of Bayern and your options are United or Saudi Arabia, where are you going to go? I suspect the outcome would be totally different if Madrid, Barcelona, City were all in the mix for said players also. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

There is already a bad vibe about the season. FA cup saved ETH but if we start badly all the media will be on him and those fans that changed their minds due to one game will go again full on against ETH. This wont end well.

That's just the way it is with United. ETH had to do a crisis interview with Neville and Carra after losing his first two games as United manager.

That won't ever change

 

[Crimson King]

That's just the way it is with United. ETH had to do a crisis interview with Neville and Carra after losing his first two games as United manager.

That won't ever change

Our own fans are only too happy to perpetuate the negativity as well

 

[crossy1686]

Our own fans are only too happy to perpetuate the negativity as well

Being a club the size of Manchester United and losing half of your competitive games during the course of a season and finishing 8th kind of warrants some negativity does it not? Or are we just doing that thing again where we pile on other United fans instead of focusing on the real problems?

 

[RedSky]

We're going to be getting more excuses for why we're shit again aren't we?

Pre season results really don't mean much when several first trainers are missing. I'll sit tight lipped until September that's when if form isn't picking up I'll get to my complaining.

 

[Sarni]

Isn't everyone's ambition to play in and win the CL? I'm not saying the players Bayern are letting go aren't good players, I'm saying that if you're going to be booted out of Bayern and your options are United or Saudi Arabia, where are you going to go? I suspect the outcome would be totally different if Madrid, Barcelona, City were all in the mix for said players also. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

We are not at a level where this would be a realistic expectation to be competitive in CL. We are probably 4-5 years away from that, if not more. The goal for next season will probably be top 6, then top 4-5 (and CL spot) the next year. We are not competing for major trophies with Bayern, Madrid, City or Barca anytime soon.

It's entirely plausible for a player to be not good enough for Bayern (or Madrid, Barca, City) but plenty good enough for United. Also, with de Ligt at least, it seems that financials seem to at least be a vital part of consideration, i.e. they are not letting him go simply because he has been below par but largely because they cannot afford to keep all their CBs and want to let the most expensive one go.

 

[Sarni]

We're going to be getting more excuses for why we're shit again aren't we?

Pre season results really don't mean much when several first trainers are missing. I'll sit tight lipped until September that's when if form isn't picking up I'll get to my complaining.

We won't even have Yoro and Hojlund back by September. Anyone judging this before we have the full team properly settled is just jumping to conclusions too early.

 

[Judas]

We won't even have Yoro and Hojlund back by September. Anyone judging this before we have the full team properly settled is just jumping to conclusions too early.

But what if we once again struggle to see the full team properly again? Which lets face it doesn't seem that unlikely. He needs to have the entire squad working well and playing to a system, that's what most managers do.

 

[digitalnirvana]

@Sarni mate I really like you as a poster, and I can really understand your frustration at the way things are and will probably end up being, but please let's not WUM. Sorry if I am harsh, I really don't want to. Peace.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We're going to be getting more excuses for why we're shit again aren't we?

Pre season results really don't mean much when several first trainers are missing. I'll sit tight lipped until September that's when if form isn't picking up I'll get to my complaining.

The club has 4 fixtures up until September.

Man City (glorified friendly)
Fulham (Home)
Brighton (Away)
Liverpool (Home)

Then there is a 2 week international break.

So you are going to judge the form and decide whether to complain based on them games? Man City and Liverpool are better than United currently, so the expectation really is that we will lose to City and get a draw at best vs Liverpool.

Beat Fulham convincingly, as we are at home and are a better team. Brighton is away but we still have a better team, so should be winning.

What about if we play good but lose to Liverpool and Brighton, but play terrible football vs Fulham and win, thats 3 points.

What about if we play terrible football, but beat Fulham and Brighton and draw Liverpool, that is 7 points.

Plenty of people will have their pitch forks out regardless of the first 4 results.

 

[Crimson King]

Being a club the size of Manchester United and losing half of your competitive games during the course of a season and finishing 8th kind of warrants some negativity does it not? Or are we just doing that thing again where we pile on other United fans instead of focusing on the real problems?

Sure, but my dad supported United through 26 years of not winning the league, as well as a relegation, and has never been as melodramatic as some of the fans on here. Last season was terrible in many respects, but there were a lot of injuries and we still managed to win a derby FA cup and qualify for a European competition. That's better than many a season where we finished higher than 8th, especially in recent memory.

We all obviously want the glory days to return, and I think most of us are sceptical as to whether EtH is the man to do that, or if he's just a guy who can push the dial in the right direction so we're ready for the right manager at the right time. Either way, until we know for sure we should at least try and support him and the team. There are far too many comments on here where the poster is almost gleefully awaiting his sacking, even though that means we'll have to suffer even more bullshit as fans.

There are posters who had been completely dormant until the exact moment the final whistle blew in that friendly defeat to Liverpool. Not to mention a flood of newbies pushing the same drivel as well, especially some of the conspiracy theory nonsense you see about EtH vetoing players so we only sign the guys he's worked with before, despite actual evidence that isn't true.

It's just boring and tiring. We get it, you don't think he's the man for the job and we're going to have a terrible season. Why sap all the fun out of being a football fan in the meantime? The zeitgeist on this forum has reached a critical level of 'needs to go outside and touch grass'.

It's just football, at the end of the day.

 

[Crimson King]

The club has 4 fixtures up until September.

Man City (glorified friendly)
Fulham (Home)
Brighton (Away)
Liverpool (Home)

Then there is a 2 week international break.

So you are going to judge the form and decide whether to complain based on them games? Man City and Liverpool are better than United currently, so the expectation really is that we will lose to City and get a draw at best vs Liverpool.

Beat Fulham convincingly, as we are at home and are a better team. Brighton is away but we still have a better team, so should be winning.

What about if we play good but lose to Liverpool and Brighton, but play terrible football vs Fulham and win, thats 3 points.

What about if we play terrible football, but beat Fulham and Brighton and draw Liverpool, that is 7 points.

Plenty of people will have their pitch forks out regardless of the first 4 results.

Not to mention the squad that goes to Wembley to play City could look very different to the one in our first game after the transfer window closes.

Results and/or performances in September and October are where we should really be looking, especially if we have a fully fit squad to choose from (minus Yoro).

 

[NLunited]

That's a very clever way to spin this, but we both know that's not a problem. What is IMO is we're fishing in a very small pond. If the process of identifying targets starts with "ok, so we need a RB, let's check who played under Ten Hag and if anyone is available", then we will be missing out on 99% of the football world. And it's not about Ten Hag, we could've had a manager who comes from a small village from Argentina and all his recommendations come from there, that would also be a problem - not with the manager, but how the club is run.

Agreed on a second point though. But if that's the case, maybe we should just get a manager that all young players liked to work with and with France, Spain, Germany etc working history. I am being half serious here obviously, because I also find it a bit funny coming with all those scenarios why this is "normal" that we're chasing mostly players who have links to our manager. It's not normal, regardless of the profile/quality of the players - which I admit I know nothing about as I don't follow this element until they are actually United players. I am yet to see how Zirksee kicks football for example.

The more success we have, the easier it will become to get preferred targets. Right now, we have to be opportunistic and get good deals wherever they are to be found.

I have seen the players we are linked with play for Ajax, and they are good fits for us stylistically. How they hold up physically in the PL remains to be seen. We seem to have some bad luck with that.

 

[flameinthesun]

We're going to be getting more excuses for why we're shit again aren't we?

Pre season results really don't mean much when several first trainers are missing. I'll sit tight lipped until September that's when if form isn't picking up I'll get to my complaining.

Based on the current squad and the recruitment currently done by INEOS this summer where do you think the team should be projected to finish this season if managed by what you would deem a competent manager (whether you think that is Ten Hag or not)? Also what would the projection be if we got in De Ligt, Mazraoui and Ugarte?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Very concerned about the season ahead. It's OK saying pre-season results don't matter, but to have a lot of chances, fail to take any, and concede three reeks of the same issues as the season just past.

I understand the team was missing players but presumably so was Liverpool. Having doubts Ten Hag us going to perform differently in the season to come.

Liverpool were missing Alison, Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dyke, Robertson, Mac Alister, Szloboszlai, Gakpo, Diaz, Nunez.

 

[gaffs]

I understand your concerns, but tbh I personally don't really mind this, if the former players brought in are actually quality...which I think they all are apart from Antony.

Onana, Martínez, Mazraoui, de Ligt.

Amrabat would be fine in a double pivot but he didn't have a chance to play in one except for a few matches, and his good performances uncoincidentally came in those games.

Onana - still question marks.
And you are already declaring Mazraoui and de Ligt a success when they are both not considered good enough for Bayern.

Anthony has been one of the worst signings in MUFC history. I wouldn't let Ten Hag bring in any more of his "old boys". It creates a deeper issue when he is let go of - and he will be.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Sure, but my dad supported United through 26 years of not winning the league, as well as a relegation, and has never been as melodramatic as some of the fans on here. Last season was terrible in many respects, but there were a lot of injuries and we still managed to win a derby FA cup and qualify for a European competition. That's better than many a season where we finished higher than 8th, especially in recent memory.

We all obviously want the glory days to return, and I think most of us are sceptical as to whether EtH is the man to do that, or if he's just a guy who can push the dial in the right direction so we're ready for the right manager at the right time. Either way, until we know for sure we should at least try and support him and the team. There are far too many comments on here where the poster is almost gleefully awaiting his sacking, even though that means we'll have to suffer even more bullshit as fans.

There are posters who had been completely dormant until the exact moment the final whistle blew in that friendly defeat to Liverpool. Not to mention a flood of newbies pushing the same drivel as well, especially some of the conspiracy theory nonsense you see about EtH vetoing players so we only sign the guys he's worked with before, despite actual evidence that isn't true.

It's just boring and tiring. We get it, you don't think he's the man for the job and we're going to have a terrible season. Why sap all the fun out of being a football fan in the meantime? The zeitgeist on this forum has reached a critical level of 'needs to go outside and touch grass'.

It's just football, at the end of the day.

Good post, sums up alot of my sentiments.

I’d love to quantum leap to December to see what’s happened cause this season could be a topsy turvey one , particularly if the injury crap is gonna continue and we don’t get proper reinforcements.

 

[NLunited]

Based on the current squad and the recruitment currently done by INEOS this summer where do you think the team should be projected to finish this season if managed by what you would deem a competent manager (whether you think that is Ten Hag or not)? Also what would the projection be if we got in De Ligt, Mazraoui and Ugarte?

Without those three signings, we would be very light and have a personell problem in midfield and defense.

Casemiro is a liability, Evans and Maguire are slow and Amass at left back does not enough defensive awareness yet.

We are also light in the striker position.

I think we should be patient this season as we are going into the season with deficiencies. Sixth. We should see progress in performances though.

With the three signings: we look a lot more squared away - challenging for top four.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

@Sarni mate I really like you as a poster, and I can really understand your frustration at the way things are and will probably end up being, but please let's not WUM. Sorry if I am harsh, I really don't want to. Peace.

He's not WUMming anymore - his logic (if I understand it correctly) is that given the path INEOS have decided to go down (keeping ETH as manager), and given what we already know about ETH and how he operates, the next step that follows logically from these decisions would be for them to give him time and allow him to build the squad in his image.

I can't say I personally agree (feels a bit like the sunk cost fallacy to me), but I can see where he's coming from.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

There are posters who had been completely dormant until the exact moment the final whistle blew in that friendly defeat to Liverpool. Not to mention a flood of newbies pushing the same drivel as well, especially some of the conspiracy theory nonsense you see about EtH vetoing players so we only sign the guys he's worked with before, despite actual evidence that isn't true.

It's just boring and tiring. We get it, you don't think he's the man for the job and we're going to have a terrible season. Why sap all the fun out of being a football fan in the meantime? The zeitgeist on this forum has reached a critical level of 'needs to go outside and touch grass'.

It's just football, at the end of the day.

Spot on and unfortunately these people will be out with their pitch forks at every loss this coming season.

There will be some that actually hope we lose so they can wade in with their ETH out rhetoric and be 'proved right'.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Based on the current squad and the recruitment currently done by INEOS this summer where do you think the team should be projected to finish this season if managed by what you would deem a competent manager (whether you think that is Ten Hag or not)? Also what would the projection be if we got in De Ligt, Mazraoui and Ugarte?

This is an interesting question.

Putting my optimistic hat on, if we got one or two more quality signings and can mostly have a fully fit squad, I’d say a top 4 challange and good run in the cups is a reasonable expectation..

I’m not sure we start the season strong given where we are at, which will pile the pressure on ETH but the key thing is to see shoots of quality and promise.

Using the Pool game as an example , that was as much a smash and grab as you can get in a game. I saw some really good stuff at times from United and in many ways finishing was the difference. Would love to of seen how Hoijland might of gotten on. Having Sancho up front instead of a salah is massive at this level.

5 or 6 points from our first three games would be solid enough for me. 4 or less is gonna ramp up the pressure. Ironic in some ways that even if we start poorly our first two games , ETH could do what he did in first season and use Pool game as a springboard. Equally interesting was that Sancho and Rashford were integral to that win.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He's not WUMming anymore - his logic (if I understand it correctly) is that given the path INEOS have decided to go down (keeping ETH as manager), and given what we already know about ETH and how he operates, the next step that follows logically from these decisions would be for them to give him time and allow him to build the squad in his image.

I can't say I personally agree (feels a bit like the sunk cost fallacy to me), but I can see where he's coming from.

The fact that he thinks it was wumming just shows how ridiculous that viewpoint really is.

 

[pcaming]

Based on the current squad and the recruitment currently done by INEOS this summer where do you think the team should be projected to finish this season if managed by what you would deem a competent manager (whether you think that is Ten Hag or not)? Also what would the projection be if we got in De Ligt, Mazraoui and Ugarte?

I think 5th is the best we can hope for this season. Top 3 is as good as gone, they're just way better than the chasing pack. Fourth will be a hard fought battle, but their are teams much more stable and consistent than we are, ie Villa/Spurs.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

This is an interesting question.

Putting my optimistic hat on, if we got one or two more quality signings and can mostly have a fully fit squad, I’d say a top 4 challange and good run in the cups is a reasonable expectation..

I’m not sure we start the season strong given where we are at, which will pile the pressure on ETH but the key thing is to see shoots of quality and promise.

Using the Pool game as an example , that was as much a smash and grab as you can get in a game. I saw some really good stuff at times from United and in many ways finishing was the difference. Would love to of seen how Hoijland might of gotten on. Having Sancho up front instead of a salah is massive at this level.

5 or 6 points from our first three games would be solid enough for me. 4 or less is gonna ramp up the pressure. Ironic in some ways that even if we start poorly our first two games , ETH could do what he did in first season and use Pool game as a springboard. Equally interesting was that Sancho and Rashford were integral to that win.

The thing is, the Liverpool game on the 1st September, there is a high chance of losing. Fulham we should be beating, but Brighton away is always tough and a draw away to them is not the worst.

4 points from them 3 games is actually a very likely outcome. 1 win and 2 draws in them 3 games is also quite likely.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I think 5th is the best we can hope for this season. Top 3 is as good as gone, they're just way better than the chasing pack. Fourth will be a hard fought battle, but their are teams much more stable and consistent than we are, ie Villa/Spurs.

Liverpool will be an interesting one to watch. All fun and games when the tide is in and everybody is having a good time , when you hit a tough patch and the tide goes out you find out if the emperor actually has clothes on.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

The thing is, the Liverpool game on the 1st September, there is a high chance of losing. Fulham we should be beating, but Brighton away is always tough and a draw away to them is not the worst.

4 points from them 3 games is actually a very likely outcome. 1 win and 2 draws in them 3 games is also quite likely.

Yeh, I do fear it’s gonna take a few weeks for us to get going aswell. I’m thinking Houjland should be back hopefully mid sept and the start of europa means we can ease him back with some lower opposition games (maybe league cup game aswell).