Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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This is like Van Gaal at Barcelona all over again just a less successful version.
While LVG did reasonably well at Barca, his vision of Ajax 2.0 didn’t work and I don’t see it happening here either for ETH. Antony is a disaster and Onana is average. Wouldn’t surprise me if one of De Ligt and Mazraoui don’t turn out great either.
Pep has had a pretty great career without recycling players he’s worked with at every club.
While LVG did reasonably well at Barca, his vision of Ajax 2.0 didn’t work and I don’t see it happening here either for ETH. Antony is a disaster and Onana is average. Wouldn’t surprise me if one of De Ligt and Mazraoui don’t turn out great either.
Pep has had a pretty great career without recycling players he’s worked with at every club.
Maybe. Maybe not and we have a great season, finish 4th and all is good.
"Onana is average" at what exactly is he average?
Martínez has turned out well though.
I’m sure a year ago you probably would have said the same about Antony. Give it another season and you’ll have all the answers you need.
What do you think are the expectations this season for him to keep his job come June 2025?
Hopefully comfortably gaining top four and an end to the headless chicken tactics from last season.
Onana might be an average shot-stopper, but whether you like it or not, that's not a priority anymore in modern day club football, for teams that want to keep possession, dominate their opponents, play out of high presses, and build out from the back. And Onana is exceptional at the qualities you need from a modern day goalkeeper. He could start for both City and Arsenal and he wouldn't be a downgrade on what they currently have. Wanting a world class shot-stopper between the posts is completely fine...but not realizing how valuable Onana is and disregarding what he brings to the table is totally brainless.
Re: Antony: You can look up my posts about him going as far back as summer 2022. I never said he was a world beater or anything close to that and I said we were getting fleeced when we signed him. Also said that at best he will be a bench option when we become a top team and he'll need upgrading on within a few seasons. I said all of this in 2022.
The only thing I got wrong was that I thought he was a better option than Elanga, which is only true in the sense that Antony is very disciplined out of possession and knows exactly what to do, when to press, who to press, and where to position himself out of possession in a ten Hag system. His ball retention is also good. But overall 24 months later I think Elanga is easily the better player if you disregard roles and their fit into specific systems.
I don’t think it’s possible to set anything specific. We just need to be greatly improved week on week. If we look a proper football team and finish 5th, then I certainly wouldn’t want him sacked just because we’d missed top 4. Similarly if we scrape top 4 because Rashford/Bruno/someone else goes on an other-worldly run of individual goals but we still look a disjointed uncoached mess then his time should be at an end.
This is wild. Especially if Matthijs de Ligt and Noussair Mazraoui are signed.
Plus, i would imagine that Mourinho's signings will have spanned across a long career. I know he signed some old boys from Porto when at Chelsea, Carvalho and Ferreira, but he has had a 20+ year career.
Feels like a way to insulate yourself. "You cant sack me, because these are all my players".
Like when a new manager comes in at work and starts bringing in people from his/her old firm.
Setting a pretty low bar there.
I understand your concerns, but tbh I personally don't really mind this, if the former players brought in are actually quality...which I think they all are apart from Antony.
Onana, Martínez, Mazraoui, de Ligt.
Amrabat would be fine in a double pivot but he didn't have a chance to play in one except for a few matches, and his good performances uncoincidentally came in those games.
Exposes the sheer incompetence at the level above him. Thankfully, that is now corrected.
I'm not saying you're wrong in the greater picture. But we bid for two of his ex-players just yesterday
And yet we still have people trying to gaslight everyone into believing it’s just a coincidence *wenger emoji*
We’re currently trying to sign two more of his previous players
The list is talking about money spent. If Antony and Onana were signed for what they were actually worth of, ETH wouldn't have ranked so high on that list. And that is almost entirely on the guys above ETH.
It is up to the recruitment team to find better prospects, if they think these players are not good enough and/or too costly.
Fair enough. I was looking at the amount of players too. Aside from Pellegrini, ETH is at least 2 players ahead of everyone else and soon to be 4 if they complete the Bayern double signing.
But the players you're complaining about are not a niche group of players that other big clubs won't even consider...because the general tone about "ETH signings" on this forum often sounds like that, but it couldn't be further from the truth.
Mazraoui was good enough for Bayern, and was wanted by Barcelona too. Two of the 4 or 5 best and most successful club sides of the last 15 years.
De Ligt was wanted by most top clubs in Europe in 2019, and he was good enough for both Juventus and Bayern. I think Chelsea wanted him in recent years as well if I recall correctly.
Onana was good enough for Inter. He was approached by Barca and considered by Arsenal as well.
Martínez was wanted by Arsenal to play the role Calafiori will now be doing for them.
Ajax and the whole Dutch league have been one of the biggest talent pools that bigger teams from the top 5 leagues love to regularly pick from. Even if ETH influenced the decision to go with Mazraoui and de Ligt, I can guarantee you that any shortlist drawn up by United for the CB and RB position would include those two anyways, without any input from the manager. Just like when the 4-man left-footed CB shortlist in 2022 presented to ETH by Murtough consisted of Gvardiol, Torres, Bastoni and Lisandro Martínez. They're not some unknown players that other teams aren't monitoring and considering approaches for.
This is the way I want to look at it.
If ETH was an a*hole who would veto any other signings except his former players, then he would have been fired.
If the guys above ETH are signing Ajax or ex-Ajax players in bulk, it is because they either agree that the players are good or are highly incompetent to find better prospects.
Insane. Why is he allowed to do this?
I do trust that - especially De Ligt - is a Club target and not a Manager one
It would have been quite funny had Erik left a couple of months ago with that reputation of only signing his own ex players that we then signed one of his favourites
Our top CB targets were Yoro and Branthwaite. Our main midfield target seems to be Ugarte. None of them have any past history with EtH, so even though I understand some people's concerns I think they're really overplaying it.
De Ligt and Mazraoui I think are both more opportunity signings. Good players, and because of Bayern's own plans they want to sell. The club smell a bit of a potential bargain.
Ironically, for both the latter their history with EtH seems to have helped us. Despite having no UCL next season, De Ligt has supposedly refused to speak to anyone else (apparently Liverpool were interested) and Mazraoui turned down West Ham to wait for United.
Let's start worrying if we suddenly put in a bid for Tagliafico or Schöne.
It is really interesting how much trust and support ten Hag has achieved for himself in this regard. As the stat shows, it is unprecedented. He must be speak words of velvet honey to the directors when justifying these player targets.
imagine the cost if he got De Jong aswell
One of the expectations for keeping him in the job shouldn't, in my opinion be something that shouldntve been there in the first place.
imagine the cost if he got De Jong aswell
7 players with another 2 enroute.
It's utterly bizarre.
It smacks of a lack of imagination at best, that he only likes former players.
That table is beyond compelling, especially if we get these two other guys, and he'd gotten FDJ..
That table is beyond compelling, especially if we get these two other guys, and he'd gotten FDJ..
Let's not forget he wanted Timber at one point (though that may have been either/or with Martinez), and Arnautovic was close to being signed but it got binned due to fan backlash.
More realistically it smacks of a severe lack of ability at evaluating talent and building squads.
Onana spent a season with pretty much the most saves in the league with the most shots against I’d argue he did his job very well, early blunders especially in the CL really stuck to him.
Antony on the other hand offered zero all season.
I think what will ultimately let him down is his fitness/prep staff. I think the injuries will kill us again this season and we won’t have the quality on the pitch to make up for the deficit in his tactical setup.
And when the next guy comes in they're likely going to want to start from scratch. Again.
Will said injuries be a viable excuse, for him two seasons running?
He would be a downgrade to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool. Probably others. Shot stopping is still a priority in modern day club football, which does not begin and end with Manchester City and its little clone.
imagine the cost if he got De Jong aswell
All this attempting to recreate a team that managed to outchoke a Spurs team missing prime Kane.
I'm inclined to agree with you but on the off chance that we start to play Ten Hag ball I'd be willing to forget the last couple of seasons. That's a BIG if though...
I wouldn't be too bothered about it but now under new regime we're still chasing targets that might shift ten Hag further away from the rest even more, which frankly is just bizarre.
After all it looks like Ineos impact might just not be instant on how the club works.
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