I'm sorry but we played some good stuff in his first season and he's won two trophies. Last season was definitely painful, more often than not, but if you can't accept those positives then God help you.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I don't think he's very good mate
I also don't think you understood my point. Winning the FA Cup shouldn't change anyones opinion, mine included. However, having a positive reaction to winning it should be something that normal FANS do, yet some on here still found ways to be negative about it.
I don't think he's very good mate
I also don't think you understood my point. Winning the FA Cup shouldn't change anyones opinion, mine included. However, having a positive reaction to winning in should be something that normal FANS do, yet some on here still found ways to be negative about it.
Were you on here the day we won the FA Cup? It was incredibly positive. Full of people who giving him loads of credit and kind words.
Sure was. And yet there were still SOME muppets creating a negative angle. What a bloody great day it was too mate.
Some? Yes. Some people think the earth is flat. Let's go back to what you argued with. I said
"If he shocked everyone and got us playing I think the majority of us who are against him now would change our minds very quickly."
The majority would be I'm sure.
The majority aren't mentalists though who are vehemently against him and act as though he personally assaulted them. So, out of the cohort that are extremely against him, nah there's no way the majority of them are changing their minds. Any future good that he might do will be heavily caveated with that defeat to Liverpool etc.
As I said, being right on the Internet is serious business.
I mean, sure. I think I posted earlier in the thread that I’d have no problem with him being booted in the first couple of months if we start the season as badly as the last one and go on to show all the same flaws after that.
But, at the end of the day, it’s the off season. When football fans are supposed to enjoy a reset and look forward to the next season. We’ve had loads of changes behind the scene and already signed a couple of decent players. We’re starting the season with key players that missed most of last season fit, well and available for selection.
There’s enough reasons to be optimistic IMO. What I don’t understand is why anyone would choose not to take that stance, given the opportunity. Relentlessly arguing that the manager is shite and we’re doomed to failure so long as he’s in charge just seems a miserable way to spend the summer. So I’m doing my best to not do that. Despite plenty of reasons to be that way.
So you're changing the words of what you quoted and argued with?
When I said "most of us who are against Ten Hag now" you are changing that to some smaller cohort in your mind.
Right.
As you said, being right on the internet is serious business.
The usual suspects were absolutely on here immediately after we won the FA Cup, arguing with anyone suggesting he'd earned more time and downplaying the achievement. We had multiple posters replying "8th", "cultists", "religion" and the usual drivel, to folks celebrating. It was honestly sad how many folks couldn't take a day off to celebrate, and would rather we hadn't won in order to vindicate their position.
If you're equating those folks with flat earthers, then I'm inclined to agree, but that's a large proportion of the ETH out posters on the forum, and almost all of the more vocal ones.
Think it's you twisting yourself in knots here. This was always about the small faction of weirdos who couldn't even be happy with an FA Cup win. As I said, the majority of our fanbase support him so they don't need their minds changed. For the ones who've made up their minds that he's shit; yeah they ain't changing them.
If you enjoy being hysterical and moaning about him at every opportunity, enjoy. Not sure what good it does especially given it's the off season.
One of us is.
I don't enjoy it at all, I'd much rather not have so much to moan about.
Well it's clearly you. You said "the majority who are against him". To me, this equates to the mental cases who actively despise him. If you meant people with valid concerns about him, then that's different. But framing it as "against him" certainly implies a very extremist stance. Thus, these kinds won't change their minds on him no matter what. They just want to win the internet. Now, could he sway fans who have valid concerns - like myself - if he's successful? Well obviously, yes.
You don't like moaning, yet you do. You know you can at least wait until the season starts. Maybe for now try to be positive by looking at the forward-thinking changes that the club is undergoing behind the scenes. I personally have minimal faith going into this season but feck it, I might as well be hopeful that he'll turn it around.
ETH is the one constantly bringing up the term standards. Standards matter. The difference between me and you is that I'm not so sure last season happened simply as a result of constant injuries. I think the tactics employed were the root cause of the problems. In addition, I also believe that worse teams with worse squads have played better than what we served up last season. Wenger's teams always had a deluge of injuries, but were still able to serve decent football, despite not necessarily having the consistency or ability in big games to provide a proper challenge. I've seen good managers manage average teams. That is not what we looked like last season. We looked like a poorly coached team.
Another difference is that I actually think if given the chance, there are other managers that could do a far better job than what ETH did last season. The slight faith I have in ETH is that last season was a one-off due to a poor judgement call on the tactics employed, as that was not a feature of his first season. However, If performances and tactics employed follow the same pattern, then there are lots of managers that can do a much better job. As a club, we have standards regarding the type of players we have and who people expect the club to sign. As fans, when players don't live up to those standards, we want them sold as the players end up proving they are not up to par. Sancho looked like a world beater 2 years ago, he doesn't look like that to us now, and we want him sold and replaced. In turn, we are giving opportunities to members of our squad and players in the transfer market to replace him. Same thing goes for Antony. It's the same thing with managers. Hence, the same attitude is being taken when looking at Ten Haag. He, like Antony and Sancho, needs to prove to us through performances on the pitch, that he actually belongs here. If he doesn't do that in short order, then he should be sacked and the opportunity should be given to another manager.
When I was an engineering apprentice working in the test department, I was always taught that when trying to fix something that doesn't work, it is always best to make as few changes as possible so that you can best assess the impact of a single change. Change too many things and, even if you fix the problem, you won't know which change it was that worked.
I am greatly oversimplifying this idea here, but I reckon INEOS are essentially going through this process. If ETH does not show clear improvement under a proper system in which some of his many responsibilities have been delegated to others, then it won't be a huge thing to move him on and try a different manager. I reckon if the playing style is visibly better, he gets top 4 and wins one of the cups we're in, then he'll get a proper contract extension at the end of the season. If it's the same as this season, even with one of the domestic cups then he won't get the extra year he's just been given. EL win might just save him if we were to finish 5th.
I am greatly oversimplifying this idea here, but I reckon INEOS are essentially going through this process. If ETH does not show clear improvement under a proper system in which some of his many responsibilities have been delegated to others, then it won't be a huge thing to move him on and try a different manager. I reckon if the playing style is visibly better, he gets top 4 and wins one of the cups we're in, then he'll get a proper contract extension at the end of the season. If it's the same as this season, even with one of the domestic cups then he won't get the extra year he's just been given. EL win might just save him if we were to finish 5th.
Again you're making up a bunch of definitions to fit your argument. Being against him is an extremist stance? Jesus.
Blindly hoping that we won't have another rubbish season is fine. I'm staying up until 3 in the morning to watch pre season friendlies in the hope we will play well. That's all fine too.
I don't believe he is a good enough manager neither do a lot of people. That's being discussed. If your concern is just how we are spending our free time then thanks.
When you snidely add in the word ‘all’ then, sure, I doubt that quote exists but there was a lot of press on the power going to and he gave an interview about it as well. Unless you are just ignoring the fact we’ve got a DoF now and a load of new management focused on recruitment of course?
I don't think you really know what I think.
If you must know, I thought EtH was dealt a terrible hand with injuries, but he then played that hand very poorly. Hindsight can be 20:20, but it seems fair enough to suggest we should have taken a more 'conservative' approach when we lost so many players. But then again, who knows? Maybe if he'd done that we would have finished even lower in the table and not won the FA cup. I don't have a magic crystal ball to confirm that.
Another manager might have done better, simply by deploying a different set of tactics and principles, but I doubt there's anyone who could have gotten that team safely into the top 4 without a LB all season. It would have been a shit sandwich either way, but maybe one that didn't taste so bad.
I very much doubt that EtH will be the next Manchester United manager to win a league title, but I certainly hope that he will be, and at the very least I hope he gets us into a good place for the next guy to come in and maybe be that guy to take us to the title again. I'm going to believe that, rather than hold on to the idea that he just isn't good enough and should be sacked at the first opportunity, and probably replaced with another guy that would need time and a rebuild.
I think that's probably the main difference between you and me.
Not making anything up, I'm literally quoting your words.
Nah, you chose to use extremist wording so deal with it buddy. Being "against" the manager of the club you support is really fecking weird, or at the very least, a really fecking weird way to frame it. Saying people have "valid concerns" is how most adults would speak, but so be it.
Exactly, blind hope is ridiculous. Not sure why you're telling me that when I LITERALLY just preceeded that statement by saying I have little faith. Sure why not have some hope - is it best to be a miserable sod? It's up to you. Until the season starts I will live in hope* that things will change.
*This is just a wee bit of optimism, not blind hope. Don't want you getting that noggin of yours all confused again.
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If ever there was a post to demonstrate the issue I am talking about, this would be it. How can you write this and not realise you can’t see the wood for the trees?
Too many FIFA players and not enough FM players on the forum these days.
By mid point last season I was firmly in the camp that wanted EtH run outta town. The FA Cup was enjoyable but did nothing to change my position, then we got linked to Southgate ...
@Robbie Boy and @OverratedOpinion, let's move on to the next subject, you've squeezed this one dry.
By mid point last season I was firmly in the camp that wanted EtH run outta town. The FA Cup was enjoyable but did nothing to change my position, then we got linked to Southgate ...
Had he been sacked he couldn't really have had any complaints. But for me, the potential candidates to replace him done absolutely nothing for me. I have no issues with him staying due to the fact that INEOS interviewed candidates and obviously didn't deem any as being the right fit. He's under immense pressure though and I would fully expect him to be sacked early on in the season if we still look like a disjointed mess.
Fair point mate.
That’s fair enough. I like the look of the signings we’ve made, so that’s definitely a positive. I’m certainly hoping that we do well and that I’m wrong about his ability. I’m just not ready to start singing his praises until that actually happens.
Tbf, singing his praises would be just as weird as spending the off season finding new ways to be negative about him. He's clearly lucky to be here and will be under massive pressure, especially if we don't hit the ground running early on. Let's all hope we start to play anything other than what we played last season.
The manager doesn't get praise for solving issues he caused himself.
He has said it’s a collaboration. If he is presented 20 players and picks the one he worked with how he is not heavily involved in picking players?
Well yes but I think those are a loud minority. It’s nowhere near the 50% that was being suggested. And those wanting the manager sacked also want us to win and if they are right and another manager does better then they have just as much reason to want to be right.
The fact is there is a lot more to be negative about than positive.
You said it had been taken from him. What was taken from him that means he is no longer heavily involved in transfers?
This seems like an incredibly naive take. Ineos were reportedly exploring other managerial options at the end of last season even if they ended up concluding their best option was to give Ten Hag a bit longer. That absolutely does not mean they have decided to back him long term - few things in football are long term anymore, and especially not when it comes to managers. If we have yet another poor start to the season there will be huge pressure on Ineos and Ten Hag, and if that happens a change in manager is a very possible outcome.
That's your assumption though. It might be much more of a conversation and he doesn't get to 'pick' as such at all. I just wouldn't really assume either way.
Agreed. Despite the contract extension if things go tits up through November INEOS will prepare the sack, but hopefully not to bring in Southgate.
It’s based on the evidence in front of us. He has signed an extraordinarily high number of players connected to Holland in one way or another.
Between the terrible start to that season and post league cup nose drive was a golden era.
The point is that it changed recently. There's no denying he had a big influence previously (against his preference, apparently).
It’s changed to the point where we’ve signed one Dutchman and have been heavily linked to Branthwaite, De Ligt and Mazraoui. Where have they all played?
Jaap?
That poster is a known wum when it comes to ETH. The fact that INEOS literally interviewed other candidates and made ETH sweat it out, means that they clearly aren't 100% sold on him (rightly so) and he is under pressure. They didn't even give him a new contract, they literally activated an extension in his contract, as we seem to have an issue with a manager going into the season in the last year of their deal.
We actually gave Ole a real life new contract and heavily backed him over the summer transfer window, then sacked him a number of months later. This narrative that ETH is safe as houses, that some paint, is absolutely bizarre, as everything that's actually transpired since the FA Cup win paints a story that he's only still here because INEOS failed to find an appropriate replacement.
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On the one hand, I agree; but on the other, the Ten Hag has no links to Zirkzee who never played in the Netherlands, the Dutch link of Branthwaite is pretty tenuous, Ten Hag claimed in the interview that he isn't the one who brought up De Ligt ('believe it or not'), and I haven't seen anything about Mazraoui. They're also all pretty appropriate candidates in terms of profile and quality. So again, I just would not be so certain in my assumptions.
I'll leave it here though, I don't think I'd have anything to add anymore.
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