I'd say it has been. A lot of what is being said and written now could all be made up by journalists needing content off the back of the news that he is staying.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I'd say it has been. A lot of what is being said and written now could all be made up by journalists needing content off the back of the news that he is staying.
There again if that were now Ron got us guaranteed CL every year. Would the owners be bothered?
They clearly need to give him a new contract - we can’t go into the season without him having that, or the players who aren’t on board with him will make sure he gets the bullet, as we have seen before.
I think the sensible thing to do will be to have break clauses in the contract, e.g., no CL qualification.
Ineos will force the fact the new football structure are in charge of recruitment, if that wasn’t going to be the case then they wouldn’t have been hired. I do think the manager needs to be involved with the discussions and should get a veto.
I think the sensible thing to do will be to have break clauses in the contract, e.g., no CL qualification.
Ineos will force the fact the new football structure are in charge of recruitment, if that wasn’t going to be the case then they wouldn’t have been hired. I do think the manager needs to be involved with the discussions and should get a veto.
He didn’t pay 80million for Antony though did he?
He identified Antony as a player he’d like to work with again.. he didn’t negotiate or agree on contract/price. It’s likely he had absolutely nothing to do with that.
infact Antony earlier on in that particular transfer window would of cost half of what they paid. They literally could have got him cheaper but decided to wait until the end of the window when Ajax couldn’t replace him and they wacked the price up.
But carry on with your false narrative and totally ignore the fact that our recruitment has been over spending and poor for years.
Well I say everyone I mean the vast majority, but I'm sure there would still be a few loons thinking we should give him another season no matter how badly he performs.
Hoping for any manager to become SAF mk2 will only lead to disappointment.
"Just" need to actually play good football all season around instead of defending and hitting on a counter in one game. Yep, we're almost there.
You don't think the Glazers ownership model and the debt have held the club back over the last 11 years post SAF?
Was Ron as successful as fergie? No. So my point stands.
I'm not a ETH fan, but we should give him time.
How much time?
once he is fully supported. When he is given a squad to compete, that’s when you can judge him. There’s no excuses then whatsoever. Get rid of the dead wood and finally get recruitment right after years of failure. Then it’s on the manager.
No more expecting managers to work miracles without the tools to do so, this is now over to ineos to deliver. They got to commit to their side of the bargain.
So how much time will that take?
And who determines when the squad is complete and ready to compete?
No. You stay on this side mate.For his performance in the last two seasons, which included two cups and have clearly been assessed positively following our reviews. It's also to give him assurances for future and not have him go into the season concerned for his position. It's the right thing to do if you have opted to go with him.
Can't believe I'm actually turning into his defender now.@VP89 @BenitoSTARR can I still join your club? Promise I'll be good.
I do not disagree with idea of supporting EtH, but there has to be some sort of noticeable improvements in many aspects, coaching and implementing the right style of play, player performances and so on, we can't have a repeat of shitty performances, I am not expecting a win in every game, but there has to be some sort of improvements that gives us hope, he did well his first year and we hoped he would progress in his second season, but the team regressed, badly regressed and now he's got another chance, let's see.
Well you see it in this thread. You saw it with Qatar, the Bruno thread, etc. The difference between the Twitterati and actual supporters (not all match going) is quite marked. I used think a lot of them were trolls or oppo supporters. There are definitely shills pretending to support United say in the City thread. But many of the ‘negatives’ are just professional moaners who probably moan on a whole raft of sites because they are miserable people.
One manager has the performance levels to actually be upset at not getting a new contract before the season. The other has absolutely no reason to expect a new contract and should be desperately trying to improve his performance levels to justify one.
We are told that the players are playing for him and that he’s the right man for the job. If so, he does not need a guarantee of a larger payout if he can’t get a tune out of them. The idea that he’s not going to face tough questions if performance levels don’t improve just because the club gives him a new contract is truly bizarre. We lose the first match of the season at OT and the boos will be ringing around and he will immediately be under incredible pressure, new contract or not.
Again, what if he starts the season with 5 straight losses? You might say that’s unrealistic but this is a manager who had us 95th out of 96 teams for shots faced in Europe’s top leagues and with an xPts of 44 across an entire season. We cannot afford to keep risking throwing away money for no gain. If he does actually do well this season, then he will get a new contract fairly swiftly.
Injuries can affect performances and results. But the extent to which injuries or absences affect an entire tactical approach raises questions about the approach itself.
Real Madrid sold Karim Benzema, a Balon d'Or winning striker and the focal point of their attack for years, and did not buy another striker to replace him. Instead they signed Jude Bellingham, a midfielder. The manager changed tactics to account for Benzema's absence and the club won the league and CL. This did not require a radical "philosophical" transformation either, it's still basically the same style of play. They didn't have to become a different team.
Xavi, who is generally considered one of the best midfielders of all time, and a very "unique" player, spent most of 05/06 sidelined with a serious injury. Barcelona still won the league and CL that season. They still played "their" football (from what I recall). In the Guardiola era, Xavi didn't always play. People like Seydou Keita might play instead. They still won games by scoring lots and hogging possession.
There are many other examples. Most of them are less successful than winning league and CL title. But they are more successful than what happened at United this season.
There's two injury arguments people have used here, that I've seen. One is that United had the most injuries, disruptive injuries, etc. There is some merit to that (though again there are examples of teams that were perfectly capable of overcoming this). This is an argument that became more credible as the season went on.
The other argument, used earlier in the season, was that the injuries to Martinez and Shaw were the reason why United could not defend, do proper build-up play, or score goals. That a Martinez-like figure was 'extremely important to Ten Hag's system.' I think it's reasonable to look at that argument and wonder whether a tactical system that completely collapses in all parts of the pitch because of the absence of a single center back isn't too clever for its own good.
how big of a mess is Manchester United in after the last 11 years? How long does that take to sort out? How much money will need to be invested? Has the recruitment been good enough? Are the facilities ready to harvest the best of the best? The best stadium and fan experience? Do United operate like world beaters? Fully commited and invested in competing with the best on the football field? Best in class throughout the whole club?
You tell me, how long does that take to sort out?
Then you got to sell I’d say probably 8/9 of these first team players, sign quality replacements and have patience with the youth coming through on top of that.
how long does it take?
life is pain
i’ll get the ouija board and tell her
I couldn’t agree more, it has to improve and we have to see some nice football next season but at the same time a manager has to be given the support and tools to make that happen. We can’t carry on expecting managers to make miracles happen when everything about the club is so poorly ran and executed. There’s a reason we don’t even get close to the big trophies and it’s not purely on the manager.
I want to see big changes throughout most that we do before I point the finger at another manager because this club is the most difficult job in football. A manager needs support. Lots of it.
I wasn't against keeping ETH. Sure the results were beyond shocking but he had many injuries and a small chunk of players worked against him. There's also the financials behind it. It seems that we've only got 65m to spend this summer and wasting 9m to get rid of the manager only to sign a new manager who would be hardly a clear upgrade would be stupid.
What I find damning is INEOS. First of all the way they handled this situation was a parody akin to when Brailsford-Moody went on full football manager's mode at Nice a year ago. The review should have ended long ago with the manager either confirmed prior to the FA cup final win or sacked soon afterwards (with his replacement already lined up). Secondly if INEOS really mean business then that budget need to increase substantially. Else we're set to become the Nice FC version of the EPL.
What I find damning is INEOS. First of all the way they handled this situation was a parody akin to when Brailsford-Moody went on full football manager's mode at Nice a year ago. The review should have ended long ago with the manager either confirmed prior to the FA cup final win or sacked soon afterwards (with his replacement already lined up). Secondly if INEOS really mean business then that budget need to increase substantially. Else we're set to become the Nice FC version of the EPL.
One thing that I am expecting this season from him is to go back into full disciplinarian mode. With his future secure he doesn’t have to be worried about players power so he can go back to what he’s good at and start punishing them.
Can you explain this?
I thought we actually deserved to win. I don't actually recall City having that many clear cut chances, in fact we had more chances to score, only for the final pass to be wrong.
I dont remember us being on the ropes all game and we hit a fluke corner/ penalty goal, we scored 2 well worked goals. Okay first one was a mistake but so was City's goal.
So the notion that we fluked the win, I dont buy it, I think we both watched different games then.
Happens when you have no answer.
Don't think the contract extension means much. Don't see why people are so up in arms about that aspect of keeping him.
The need to show some sort of faith in him - after it being made public that they were speaking to other options. He's a dead man walking with every bad result questioning whether they will sack him without the show of support.
The contract extension itself doesn't mean a great deal to the club - if they want to get rid of him, they will and just the bit extra that it will cost to remove him.
It's definitely make or break for him this season though - we can't be stumbling through the season with poor performances. We need to see a clear, structured tactical plan but in place and we need to make top 4.
The need to show some sort of faith in him - after it being made public that they were speaking to other options. He's a dead man walking with every bad result questioning whether they will sack him without the show of support.
The contract extension itself doesn't mean a great deal to the club - if they want to get rid of him, they will and just the bit extra that it will cost to remove him.
It's definitely make or break for him this season though - we can't be stumbling through the season with poor performances. We need to see a clear, structured tactical plan but in place and we need to make top 4.
Maybe the real magic formula to find SAF mk2 all this while is to give the manager enough time and support to make it work? Proven with SAF himself, Arsene Wenger, Arteta, Pep, Klopp, Diego Simeone and etc.
Ineos team may have a point here. With proper structure at Ajax, ETH played brilliant attacking football and did very well in Europe with limited budget. The question is why he failed so badly in Man Utd? Maybe this is something we need to look at rather than changing manager again?
I am sure it has hence the process took so long. No agreement meant we would sack him. I also hope they put in a clause for certain achievenemts, and if we do not meet them, it is ciao ciao
De Ligt is a beast and Martinez a terrier.
Speed is just one factor, it doesn’t seem to be a problem at Borussia Dortmund for example.
Martinez is quick off the mark and aggressive. De Ligt I would have some concerns about, I’d rather sign someone more mobile and fast.
By that reckoning we should have stuck with Moyes. Managers obviously need time but if you're not good enough, you're not good enough. Other factors have saved Ten Hag, because on last seasons showing, he's not good enough.
Clearly there have been other issues at the club which impact any manager, and hopefully they'll be resolved, but he may simply have failed so badly at United because it's a step up and in reality, only a fraction of people in any discipline will have enough ability to be elite.
The club have made a decision so that's that, but it's hard to see what they're seeing that justifies him staying on when the overall performance is considered. He's under massive pressure next year for the team to perform from the get-go.
Right on. We are in a position that takes time to dig out of. To right the ship financially, to modernize the club, to foster that winning mentality that Real Madrid has.
It is mental some can’t really enjoy our cup wins, some of our fans really are a disgrace. We did not just win a cup, we did it with epic games against Pool and Cheaty, our biggest rivals.
I think you've answered your own question in the last paragraph.
It is make or break and he'll know that, so why give him a new deal? If he's on £9 million a year that "bit extra" might amount to £18 million. He's been lucky to keep his job. Rewarding him with a new deal is bizarre.
Looking at the squad of who will most likely go:
Varane
Amrabat
Ericson
Martial
sancho
That’s 5 players defo going or not wanted before we look at question marks, most of who we prob can’t replace cause there’s too many players already needing replacement:
Williams
Pellestri,
Van Der Beek, Hannibal , gore , foresan
Shoretire
We actually can’t really afford to let anymore senior players go:
Casemiro, Evans , Maguire , Lindleof, AWB, there’s too many players required as is.
I wouldn’t be selling any of ETH signings. You wouldn’t think it , but Anthony gives more to the team defencively then Grealish and Sancho , had similar goals/assists stats (bad as they were) last season and yet he’s treated like he’s the most expensive flop in the history of the sport while Sancho gets praised for a couple of decent performances , mostly in a poorer league and Grealish gets a pass in a far better team.
Varane
Amrabat
Ericson
Martial
sancho
That’s 5 players defo going or not wanted before we look at question marks, most of who we prob can’t replace cause there’s too many players already needing replacement:
Williams
Pellestri,
Van Der Beek, Hannibal , gore , foresan
Shoretire
We actually can’t really afford to let anymore senior players go:
Casemiro, Evans , Maguire , Lindleof, AWB, there’s too many players required as is.
I wouldn’t be selling any of ETH signings. You wouldn’t think it , but Anthony gives more to the team defencively then Grealish and Sancho , had similar goals/assists stats (bad as they were) last season and yet he’s treated like he’s the most expensive flop in the history of the sport while Sancho gets praised for a couple of decent performances , mostly in a poorer league and Grealish gets a pass in a far better team.
Your point makes no sense, Ten Hag would be sacked if we finished 4th for the third time in a row, 5 years into the job.
Agree, this should put an end to player power something we have all been calling for for years.
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The reality is, as reported by The Athletic and Romano that he WAS NOT their preferred choice. They wanted Tuchel but didnt agree on a financial package ! So ETH was plan B or C
I read the article and saw nothing about a financial package being the only barrier.
To be fair to ETH, he had John Murtough as DOF who basically is an appointment within and has no track records. He has been a key member in Ed regime with more than a decade of unprecedented failure.
Nothing at the club works. Scouting, recruitment, medical, fitness, negotiation, contract and whatnot. How you expect a manager in such a big club to succeed? I think this is what Ineos Team review found out.
Maybe with proper structure it could work. Let's trust Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and ETH one more year since the decision have been made
I think Tuchel may have walked away seeing our transfer budget. But I do think Tuchel may have been the first choice.
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