Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It is coming across as though there is no clarity and no real plan, which is the most concerning thing here.

I’m not surprised by reports that Ineos have been speaking to other managers, and would argue that everyone in football talks and sound out managers / players about joining clubs. I didn’t see any hard proof that the meeting with Tuchel took place, so maybe I missed something, or journos are performing guess work yet again.

I don’t think that there is a standout candidate ready to come in. If anything, a few managers might want to wait it out and see how Ineos act over the next season, to see if they’re attractive to work for or not.

Their top hires aren’t in position yet, and whatever review is being performed should be overseen by all of the top team. I can’t imagine that Berrada and Ashworth aren’t privy to what’s going on, but at the same time, they can’t be overly involved as they’d be in breach of their current contracts. It could explain the delays in a decision being made. It could even result in no change to the manager until they’re in the door.

The football last season was pants and a single game shouldn’t change the plan for the future. However, if they can’t replace EtH with a candidate that wants the job or is deemed to be more capable, then it’s better to keep him in place the coming season and plan appropriately.

Alternatively, the reports about Southgate are true and they’re waiting for their man to become available….which is looking increasingly possible the longer they wait it out.
 
VP89 said:
Its not "just speculation". Journalists with known connections to Manchester United did not say he'd be sacked irrespective of the result, either.
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Sounds like speculation

the activity of guessing possible answers to a question without having enough information to be certain

Reads like this almost every page since the FA cup - it's on the transfers page, which is by subject matter a speculation thread.
 
Sarni said:
Why would you keep him until mid-June if you aren’t willing to let him continue under any circumstances though? I’m as much ETH out as anyone on here but the way this saga has been handled is a complete mess and undermines him more than he ever deserved. Unless there’s communication between the club and him behind the scenes, of which there seems to be hardly any indication at all, this is not the way any employee should be treated.
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I agree mate it is a mess and Erik is being unnecessary treated poorly here.

But you've maybe answered your own question there. He's still here because they've made a mess of the process.

As I said maybe they've been a bit naive and underestimated just how much attention this process would garner.
 
M16Red said:
It is really, because it's just speculation and when the news came out before the FA cup it was said to be a leak and that he'd be fired win or lose.

I think this is INEOS's first mistake and it will impact the transfers in and out 100% they need to say something soon its either continue with the open heart surgery or back to player power.. IMO
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The surgery's done mate, the patient didn't make it.
 
M16Red said:
It is really, because it's just speculation and when the news came out before the FA cup it was said to be a leak and that he'd be fired win or lose.

I think this is INEOS's first mistake and it will impact the transfers in and out 100% they need to say something soon its either continue with the open heart surgery or back to player power.. IMO
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Does anybody even think this anymore? Is there anybody here that still honestly believes these players are in any way trying to undermine the manager?

Like I said ages ago, these players have tried for him. They've saved us many lost points with individual brilliance and last minute efforts for late goals. The players that were one causing problems are long gone.
 
pocco said:
Does anybody even think this anymore? Is there anybody here that still honestly believes these players are in any way trying to undermine the manager?

Like I said ages ago, these players have tried for him. They've saved us many lost points with individual brilliance and last minute efforts for late goals. The players that were one causing problems are long gone.
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Nope, think its an outdated lazy narrative. Sancho might have been an issue, and well he was dealt with.
 
pocco said:
Does anybody even think this anymore? Is there anybody here that still honestly believes these players are in any way trying to undermine the manager?

Like I said ages ago, these players have tried for him. They've saved us many lost points with individual brilliance and last minute efforts for late goals. The players that were one causing problems are long gone.
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Evidently many still do.

"These players"
 
Judas said:
Nope, think its an outdated lazy narrative. Sancho might have been an issue, and well he was dealt with.
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Sancho is an example that player power is not as big anymore. In the past, the manager might have got the sack and the hierarchy would have backed their star signing, regardless of who was in the wrong.

The fact that on multiple occasions, Ten Hag has been backed over a player, shows the move away from player power.

Ronaldo and Sancho are the best examples of this.
 
Sorry what? He's only due back in early July? He got 6 weeks off?
 
pocco said:
Does anybody even think this anymore? Is there anybody here that still honestly believes these players are in any way trying to undermine the manager?

Like I said ages ago, these players have tried for him. They've saved us many lost points with individual brilliance and last minute efforts for late goals. The players that were one causing problems are long gone.
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They won't try to undermine Eth because they know what will happen - Ronaldo gone, Sancho gone, tried to sell the ex captain.

So what I think the players have done, they've gone to the new bosses and moaned internally as anyone would not playing.

I find it interesting that the players have never downed tools under Eth.

I just feel like we are 4/5 players of a top 3 team.
 
M16Red said:
The surgery is not done, there are a few more rounds yet.. sadly.
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Surgery as Rangnick described it circa early 2022 was major work to transform the squad. 10 players in and 10 out.

That's happened and more mate, as of now with the departures of Varane and Martial we've what 8 senior players left from the squad that finished the 2022 season.

As I said the surgery's done and it wasn't a success.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Backlash for being sacked after our worst ever PL season. Only our fans, eh
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It's almost as though our deluded fans understand mitigating circumstances like injury crises, personnel issues and backroom takeover nonsense impact performance.

The way in which we give a cup winning manager a break in these circumstances is frankly ludicrous.

If we aren't careful EtH will stay on and we'll never get Sir Waistcoat to lead Dan Ashworth's 'yes man' revolution.
 
M16Red said:
They won't try to undermine Eth because they know what will happen - Ronaldo gone, Sancho gone, tried to sell the ex captain.

So what I think the players have done, they've gone to the new bosses and moaned internally as anyone would not playing.

I find it interesting that the players have never downed tools under Eth.

I just feel like we are 4/5 players of a top 3 team.
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This is pure fantasyland. Literally nothing to suggest any of this.
 
M16Red said:
They won't try to undermine Eth because they know what will happen - Ronaldo gone, Sancho gone, tried to sell the ex captain.

So what I think the players have done, they've gone to the new bosses and moaned internally as anyone would not playing.

I find it interesting that the players have never downed tools under Eth.

I just feel like we are 4/5 players of a top 3 team.
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Agreed. We are not as bad as we look. The biggest thing is consistency in team selection for me.

If we can go next season and have 6/7 PL starters that start 30/38 PL games, we will be fine. The issue we have is LB is injured and as soon as LB is back LCB is injured with CDM. Players come back and others get injured.

We need to just have a fit squad for 1 season, there will be a massive difference.
 
M16Red said:
They won't try to undermine Eth because they know what will happen - Ronaldo gone, Sancho gone, tried to sell the ex captain.

So what I think the players have done, they've gone to the new bosses and moaned internally as anyone would not playing.

I find it interesting that the players have never downed tools under Eth.

I just feel like we are 4/5 players of a top 3 team.
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Dream Team levels of fantasy. Just creating a storyline in your own head.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Fake backlash
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That's why they didn't announce his sacking after the FA Cup final IMO.The longer it goes on the easier it's to sack him. He got a lot of support after winning the cup otherwise he'd have gone. Anyway there's not much out there and Southgate scares the whole fanbase.
 
stevoc said:
Surgery as Rangnick described it circa early 2022 was major work to transform the squad. 10 players in and 10 out.

That's happened and more mate, as of now with the departures of Varane and Martial we've what 8 senior players left from the squad that finished the 2022 season.

As I said the surgery's done and it wasn't a success.
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There has not been surgery. Some players left on a free, fair enough we have had exits.

In regard to incomings, Antony, Casemiro, Licha, Malacia, Hojlund, Mount, Onana have been our signings. Thats 7 in.

Casemiro, Antony already aren't good enough, so we have to get rid of those 2. So, we have signed 5 players in 2 years that can have a future at United.

That is nowhere near enough.. its more of short term surgery rather than open heart. Patch job.
 
doubleohseven said:
It's almost as though our deluded fans understand mitigating circumstances like injury crises, personnel issues and backroom takeover nonsense impact performance.
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And conveniently ignoring the pub level tactics and awful system we set up in for 95% of the season; the fact that we finished the lowest we ever have in the PL era; with the lowest goal difference, and crashed out dead last in the easiest CL group we could’ve had. The justification for all of that cannot simply be “Licha and Shaw were injured, plus the Glazers selling up, you know?” Not to mention the serious possibility that the injury crisis was assisted heavily by ten Hag’s inability to rotate, the frantic football we played all season, and also his willingness to rush players back to save his own skin

Endless discourse on this stuff in this thread so I won’t say much more.
If we aren't careful EtH will stay on and we'll never get Sir Waistcoat to lead Dan Ashworth's 'yes man' revolution.
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Scaremongering that a single high level journalist hasn’t penned his name to. Don’t get me wrong I think INEOS are a bit shite but I absolutely do not believe Gareth Southgate is close to a remote possibility.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
But it has struck me a bit over the recent years why the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern at times haven't just got one of the best managers available and have instead got someone much less proven. I have extremely limited knowledge into what the actual reason is, but it seems to me that clubs nowadays like to set up so that the manager changes don't affect recruitment or the clubs style. And the best managers will usually always want more control than that. We've experienced many new beginnings where our managers are responsible for everything. So perhaps it is the most efficient way to operate now?
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I think clubs like RM, Bayern, Barcelona can be more flexible on managerial appointments because of the quality of the squad. These clubs aim to have squads full of top quality players, and their quality should allow them to play in multiple setups. With these resources, the manager should be able to implement their own style without having a ton of control or input over recruitment.

RM don't play much like Manchester City. But imagine if Guardiola were forced to be their manager for 5 seasons. Presumably he wouldn't need a whole new squad.

I think having a 'fixed style' is better when you're in some kind of financial or reputational disadvantage.You can't sign top quality players. But maybe you can sign average players who are above average at a few things. So if you pick style X and sign players that are above average at X only, you might get above average performance for average transfer fees.

If you have a lot of resources, though, you run the risk of spending above averages fees on average players simply because they are above average at a few things.
 
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It's simple. We've conceded more goals than we've scored. Time to move on as it's not acceptable. If anyone thinks that's acceptable, our standards are way too low. Injuries are no excuse.
 
Judas said:
Dream Team levels of fantasy. Just creating a storyline in your own head.
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I used the word "I think", like I said to the other poster it's a review - they are probably using a business framework.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Backlash for being sacked after our worst ever PL season. Only our fans, eh
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Even the podcast on the main page of this very forum says they hope Ten Hag isn't sacked. Most of the fan channels with huge communities want him to stay. The match going fans want to keep him.

It's only the oddbods on here that want him sacked which would lead to Southgate.

Anyway, he's got one year left. I sense a clashing soon between Ancelotti (who said that Real Madrid would not be competing in the Club World Cup) and Real themselves (who put out a statement the next day saying they WOULD be competing in the Club World Cup). So let's keep Ten Hag for the last year and go for Don Carlo next summer.
 
romufc said:
There has not been surgery. Some players left on a free, fair enough we have had exits.

In regard to incomings, Antony, Casemiro, Licha, Malacia, Hojlund, Mount, Onana have been our signings. Thats 7 in.

Casemiro, Antony already aren't good enough, so we have to get rid of those 2. So, we have signed 5 players in 2 years that can have a future at United.

That is nowhere near enough.. its more of short term surgery rather than open heart. Patch job.
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We've 8 players left from the squad Ralf managed mate.

That's where the open heart surgery comment comes from. What your describing is just ongoing continuous squad management and turnover.
 
M16Red said:
Sounds like speculation

the activity of guessing possible answers to a question without having enough information to be certain

Reads like this almost every page since the FA cup - it's on the transfers page, which is by subject matter a speculation thread.
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The journalists that have said managers were in talks do not speculate. They have sources on both sides and have even given the clubs line along with the managers line in terms of outcome of the talks.
 
stevoc said:
We've 8 players left from the squad Ralf managed mate.

That's where the open heart surgery comment comes from. What your describing is just ongoing continuous squad management and turnover.
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And most of them were going to leave on a free that summer. My point is you can have surgery but whats the point of opening the heart, carrying out the surgery and then leaving it?

Still have to close it all up and let the heart mend. We have just not done enough in the window to progress.
 
devilish said:
This narrative annoys me. Let's start about how Ashworth sees his job

https://www.ucfb.ac.uk/news/brighton-s-dan-ashworth-describes-role-of-technical-director/


"We would work off of a traffic light system; the recruitment department have got to like the player; the player has got to stack up on data and numbers like the contract and if we can afford him; and the first team manager has got to like the player. If all three things get the green light, then we’ll go ahead. If one is orange, then we need to have a discussion “

Is there much back and forth with the manager when debating the possibility of signing a player? “Yes, of course,” Ashworth explains. “They’re big, multi-million-pound decisions. If it didn’t go backwards and forwards, then there’d be something wrong!

“In any business, if there’s a multi-million-pound decision then several people will be getting involved. It’s healthy debate and constructive conflict. Graham might say “I like this player” and we ask “why?” because we think another player can do X, Y, and Z better and is better value. We then either agree or disagree, then sign the player, or we don’t.”

“I’ve got to get on the right page with whichever head coach I’m working with. I’ve got to understand their philosophy, what they want from their team and what they like and dislike, because there’s no point in me bringing them in a player that I know isn’t going to be any good to them.”


Now of course this modus operandi might irk someone who wants to turn us into an Eredivisie XI. It might also irk a manager who wants to keep involving the agency that represents him who also happens to be the same agency in which his own son works with. However that's hardly a dictatorship.

Let's not forget that Klopp was overridden regarding Brandt because Liverpool top brass wanted a certain Salah instead. So these things do happen at well run clubs. Now we're talking about Klopp here not someone who thinks that Antony is a United level RW
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This’s what you expect from a professional leader with a couple of years of experience. A sensible approach with some room to maneuver.

bringbackbebe said:
There are four scenarios here:
1. ETH is staying. INEOS didn't meet any other manager => Logical path.
2. ETH is staying. INEOS did meet other managers => This is not a path sensible people will take and does not reflect well upon INEOS if true.
3. ETH is leaving. INEOS didn't meet any other manager => INEOS is stupid.
4. ETH is leaving. INEOS did meet other managers => Logical path.

Going by this, I'd guess if they met with other managers, it probably means ETH has been informed already that he's going to be fired. Then why hasn't he been shown the door yet before his holiday?

Which makes me believe 1 is the most logical step and the journos don't have a clue.
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Sir Jim wasn’t my initial choice but his results as a well educated business man speaks for themselves. From what’s available on internet I see a man who knows what he wants. Whatever we think about his business ethics he’s not afraid of taking bold and uncomfortable decisions.

As a new (minority) owner with the overall responsibility of United’s sport results he want to have total control. That goes without saying. Everything in his past screams that he likes to have the final say in almost everything. It doesn’t mean he will micro manage things but when it comes to decisions that has significant consequences on the results we can probably be sure that he we be involved in the decision process. To be honest. I like that approach because I have a similar mind set even if I used to operate on a much smaller level.

With that all in mind I’m certain that he will do his own due diligence when it comes to recruiting employees in key positions. Doesn’t mean he’s the one picking candidates or take the decision by himself but he likes to be involved. If the reports are correct about him meeting TT then that meeting (in Monaco - on his home soil on his conditions) confirms that theory.

My view is that he probably want to listen to some well known managers to get their opinion before he’s going to take the final decision regarding keeping or sacking EtH. He will off course not dress these meetings with other candidates in those terms, but judging from his past, he’s probably not afraid to cut corners or speed up the process if that’s possible. (hopefully that sentence make sense for those of you who’re familiar with decision making management)

To sack Ten Hag a few weeks after the season is over doesn’t make sense if we’re going to believe Ineos initial statement how to run the club. Bad publicity and I don’t think Sir Jim want to by pass both Ashworth and Berreda so soon into their tenure.

Having leaked interviews is also bad publicity but judging from Sir Jim’s past I don’t think he care about some fuzz in the media if they get the final decision right.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I think United would bite back against the "yes man" claim that ESPN(?) claimed they wanted

But it has struck me a bit over the recent years why the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern at times haven't just got one of the best managers available and have instead got someone much less proven. I have extremely limited knowledge into what the actual reason is, but it seems to me that clubs nowadays like to set up so that the manager changes don't affect recruitment or the clubs style. And the best managers will usually always want more control than that. We've experienced many new beginnings where our managers are responsible for everything. So perhaps it is the most efficient way to operate now?

And although Southgate personally makes me break out in hives, the idea of getting an International manager might make sense in that regard because they are used to just working with what is provided for them, rather than signing their own players. And the crux of their job is simply coaching and getting the best out of what they have and creating the correct environment.
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It's just people being silly. Ashworth has stated how the setup works and that the manager will obviously have a major say on transfers, he's more or less said that anything else would be a daft idea, it's just an overall improvement on how the club identify and sign players, in order to minimize risks of spending obscene sums on players that fail. It's mental how you can have direct quotes from Ashworth on the subject, and people are still jumping on newspaper bollox about the club wanting a yes man, only to go on a subsequent rant about how no top manager is going to accept such a scenario. It's stupid as feck on every level there is
 
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