If Pep wasn't there he would be a title winning manager. Or something.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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If Pep wasn't there he would be a title winning manager. Or something.
Arteta finished 8th in his first couple of seasons. Klopp didn't qualify for the CL last year. If you hold them to the same standards they would have been sacked already.
You're looking back right now, discounting how terribly rated Arteta was in this forum. None of them had anything close to the circus we've had last 2-3 years (closest possibly was the Auba episode but even that was buried quick)
It would also be seeing one side of the equation.
Begiristain - Guardiola
Edu - Arteta
Edwards - Klopp
*cough* Murtough - ETH
It's hilarious seeing people who think Ten Hag can do no wrong calling Arteta "shite".
To everyone pretending that there's some fantastic Arteta blueprint to follow: If he wins nothing next season then it's 5.5 seasons and 1 FA Cup. Not sure many on here would be hailing any of our managers as a fantastic success if they had that record.
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Arsenal fans are clueless, to be fair.
It's more hilarious watching people pretend that Klopp and Arteta followed the same blueprint.
In truth our DOF model has been: ETH - ETH. "The Fergie" model. It seems like Murtough mostly operated as an administrative "fixer" for Arnold and ETH.
Interesting piece in the Guardian today...
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...in-transfer-window?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...in-transfer-window?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Nah, he was fecking shite before it clicked. 9 times out of 10 a manager performing like he did gets the sack. This weird obsession with drawing parallels to Klopp is odd.
If my grandma had wheels, she would've been a bus
Don't you dare take away Arteta's 2 league titles!
Arteta had all the drama with Ozil, which was substantial.
But we had to sack a manager who had won us two trophies in order to hire Ferguson. Maybe Ten Hags only role in the prophecy is to be sacked to make room for the next Ferguson?
. Even Ferguson wouldn't get to be Ferguson
Times have changed , and he wouldn't get enough of it .
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It's not more hilarious, no. Maybe a bit funny. Klopp and Arteta did not follow the same blueprint, agreed. Arteta is an outlier that should not be used for any comparisons really. Although all this seems a bit unfair on him. They did mount a genuine title challenge and took it to the last game. It's not like he finished 10 points behind so we can mock him with the "would be a champion if Pep wasn't there". They even had a better GD.
Yes, I forgot that. However, look at the numbers as well as magnitude at United:
- First the "leaks"
- Greenwood
- Ronaldo
- Sancho
- Antony
- Glazers (1 year episode)
Good. I'm glad to see there's some sanity remaining in this thread.
Arteta is not really a great example of anything seeing as Unai Emery achieved the first benchmark asked of Arteta (qualifying to the CL) with a worse club, a worse squad, and in less time.
And yet I'm not sure anyone believes Emery can mount a title challenge and reach mid 80 point tallies with Villa.
So things aren't as linear and straightforward.
And yet I'm not sure anyone believes Emery can mount a title challenge and reach mid 80 point tallies with Villa.
So things aren't as linear and straightforward.
This is where I'm at. This summer will be indicative about what INEOS intend and how they are going to go about it, or if they have a plan at all. And the level of freedom to operate they are granted by the Glazers. The manager issue dragging like this isn't exactly a good first impression, but just for now I'm assuming there's some reason for it. Let's hope it's a good reason and not a Southgate reason. There's also some time until the transfer window opens, and the Euro will delay things anyway, so everything is still in the green.
Will it though when big pieces of the structure isn't even in place yet with Berrada only starting middle of July and Ashworth who knows?
I think Arteta was lucky to survive but so what, he is not ETH, and Arsenal are not Utd these comparisons are baseless, and Klopp had more than enough in the bank to survive a bad season, the only thing ETH has is a bag is his balls and they need kicking!
And yet so many people are banking on ETH somehow becoming a good tactician in the closed season.... this whole thing is ridiculous, keep or get rid of ETH but people need to stop deluding themselves, comparing ETH with Arteta and Klopp, there is no realistic comparison to be made, different teams, different set ups different everything and yet it would seem people on here think there is some kind of guaranteed correlation between the length of time a manager has and their ability to create a successful team....
These posters attribute some kind of tangible relationship between Klopp, Arteta and even SAF... like these are the only 3 managers they can find examples of where they have turned things around because they were given time, so that is 3 managers, how many managers have died on there arse despite being given time.
Lets be pragmatic... which is more likely ETH stays and fails or ETH stays and succeeds? given our performances last season it is a much safer bet to get rid of ETH than it is to keep him, unless he has promised INEOS that he will not being playing madball next season, what is stopping him starting next season again with no midfield?
So lets ignore the whole Arteta, Klopp thing, lets ignore injuries, politics, distractions..... what are the arguments for keeping ETH, he hasn't lost the dressing room and he has won 2 trophies.... against keeping him, he managed to pretty much break every negative record he could last season, cost us at least £75m by persisting with an impossible setup and game plan, had us playing the worst football I have ever seen a top flight team play.
I am not going to cry into my porridge if ETH stays, and if he does I will hope against hope that he does turn it around, I do not want him to fail, however if we do keep him I fear the damage he is doing to the team, especially the money he is losing us hand over fist, we simply cannot afford another season like the last, it will cripple us financially, IMO given the abject shite we have been severed this season I would rather have any manager who is likely to get us back top 4-5 than risk ETH.
FA Cup win in his first season? Beat City in the Semis and Chelsea in the final. He was only appointed in December 2019, half way through the season.
Arsenal hadn't been in the top 4 for 3 or 4 years prior to him arriving. He had to move on overpaid players and rebuild with younger players, whilst implementing a new brand of football. It was widely regarded that Arsenal were shite before he took over, go back and read any posts referencing Arsenal around that time on here and they were considered a joke. He's done a great job and Arsenal fans are clueless. I was arguing with Arsenal fans because I thought he'd take them in the right direction and could see what he was trying to do - my only caveat was that I didn't know if he'd take them to winning the league but knew he'd set them on the right path. Because they/ you couldn't see it isn't my problem.
It was a totally different job and approach to what we have. I said at the time that we should follow their lead of short term pain for long term gain and get rid of overpaid players who were signed for big money. We'd struggle initially but it would bear fruit in the end. Instead we've just compounded our issues and still talking about rebuilds to this day.
I'm assuming most of the business will be done after the Euros. Berrada will have plenty of time to act, and I'm sure he isn't staying idle right now either. In the meantime, Blanc and Wilcox will be handling it. Not having Ashworth in his position isn't ideal, of course, but the three of those will surely manage, if they are as good as they are being made out to be. You also have Brailsford in the mix, but to be honest I'm not sure I'm fond of having him involved.
Anyway, that should be enough personnel for INEOS to stamp their ideas on this window.
Looks like he is a goner.
I hope Delaney is full of shit.
Some people might miss Ten Hag pretty soon if Southgate is our manager
best in class …
best in class …
What Fergie did at Aberdeen was seriously impressive. That alone would mean there would have been strong voices backing him, when you look at what sort of reasoning is used for Ten Hag. Like Fergie said at the time, we were a club that hasn't won the league in 20 odd years, but believed we should win it every year. hence the pressure he faced. Nowadays top 8 is supposedly good enough, nobody thinks we should win the league.
They cant complain. Alot of people wanted him sacked regardless of who we get.
8th, 8th and 5th. Ole even managed a 2nd and 3rd place finish and beat plenty of top teams.
Stop pretending. Things worked out but he looked on the verge of being sacked plenty of times in his early days. As I said, my brother supports Arsenal and couldn't stand him early on. Look at the Arteta thread on here, he was being ripped to shreds by the majority.
I'm afraid you are mistaken, very mistaken.
Arteta went from 1,32 expected points per game his first season to 1,55 expected points per game in his second season (positive change of 0,23 expected points per game). And from negative 0,20 expected goal difference per game to positive 0,24 expected goal difference per game (positive change of 0,44 expected goal difference per game).
Arteta didn't take over a 5th place Arsenal, he took over an 11th placed Arsenal with a negative goal difference in free fall midseason. No pre season, just straight in to the tight Christmas program.
ETH's first season was good, his second season was a catastrophy.
ETH went from 1,74 expected points per game his first season to 1,17 expected points per game his second season (negative change of 0,57 expected points per game). And from a positive 0,57 expected goal difference per game to a negative 0,38 expected goal (negative change of 0,95 expected goal difference per game)
If you're not already the best team in the country, progress is the only valuable measuring stick. ETH has taken the team from a good season and has not just not made us better, but has made us mindblowingly worse since.
Klopp and Arteta showed clear progress all their first 3 seasons. ETH's negative trajectory is record breaking bad.
So no! ETH's first two seasons hasn't been better than Arteta's two seasons. ETH first two seasons has been a catastrophy because the current status is that we haven't been further away from the best teams in the country since Fergies early days in the 80's.
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Where did Tuchel fall? Was he rockclimbing during his interview?
Damn I'm starting to think that poster was telling the truth about us wanting him to resign. Sounds like we're smoking him out with indecision.
Delaney knows nothing, but picking Southgate is good, in a sense. It will make it clear INEOS are a group of undeniable clowns very early on, so everyone can save their time and energy, and move on to better things.
The Southgate talk is so scary, I just can't believe there's anything to justify him being considered for such a difficult job. It's just a total different world to international football.
Delaney is genuinely a source comparable with Goldbridge. The guys an absolute charlatan, can’t remember him breaking anything correctly, can remember him getting almost everything wrong.
If he stays (which I doubt) would show a total lack of ambition from INEOS. Ten Hag has shown nothing to prove Utd could challenge for the title let alone win it. We’re miles off the pace.
Feel confident Utd will one day challenge for the title ….but it won’t be with Ten Hag.
Feel confident Utd will one day challenge for the title ….but it won’t be with Ten Hag.
There's literally less than 10% in here that wants Southgate as ETH's replacement:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/southgate-replacing-eth-yes-or-no.482628/page-9#post-32031815
No one wants Southgate.
Many wants ETH out.
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