I was amazed that the FA kept him on beyond that game when it was so obviously the ne plus ultra of the Southgate reign - he was utterly paralysed by fear and indecision and clearly showed that he is not the man to get England over the line on the biggest stage. It was reported afterwards that the Italians had the sense throughout the second half that we would kill them from the bench (Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Grealish) - they were apparently flabbergasted that we waited so long to change anything and could not believe their luck afterwards.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I was amazed that the FA kept him on beyond that game when it was so obviously the ne plus ultra of the Southgate reign - he was utterly paralysed by fear and indecision and clearly showed that he is not the man to get England over the line on the biggest stage. It was reported afterwards that the Italians had the sense throughout the second half that we would kill them from the bench (Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Grealish) - they were apparently flabbergasted that we waited so long to change anything and could not believe their luck afterwards.
I mean he literally managed Ajax and was successful so he has got the skill and the tools. He has shown it in the CL stage with them too. He has also shown at Ajax he can re-build sides.
Pressure is there at Ajax actually.
approaching the managerial position in 2024 like it’s 1986 still. “Oh we can just be patient and finish 8th. Soon he’ll be winning everything like the 1%er from four decades ago”
It's as funny as the ones claiming they would be happy with Arteta like progess: 8th, 8th and 5th. Our fanbase are nuts.
If it was just Ashworth & Ratcliffe making the call I'd be worried that Southgate might actually happen but Berrada and Wilcox hopefully have a lot more sense. Not a chance he'd get hired for City.
Unless they're secretly still on the City payroll and have been sent here to destroy us
That's what we are all desperately hoping
If I do a 7 letter wordle today, I’m starting with Clarity on line one.
I'm just going by what you put down dude. Was this part wrong of your post?
Arteta:
1st season
1,65 points per game (over performance by 0,33 points per game)
+ 0,55 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,75 gd/game)
2nd season
1,61 points per game (over performance by 0,23 points per game)
+ 0,42 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,18 gd/game)
Unless im missing something, feel free to correct me.
From a trophy haul perspective, position finished in the league table perspective, european qualification perspective, yes, Ten Hag has had a better 2 seasons than Arteta has had over 2.5 seasons.
As I and others have pointed out all you have to do is look back to reddit or the Arsenal forums to see that they were not big fans of Arteta during this period and many of the complaints of lack of style, philosophy etc were being labelled at him.
They were wrong, and that has since been proven. But the principles of what Arteta was trying to do were evident early on, if you could look without bias. I just don't see those same principles under ETH. But maybe he should have been sacked, maybe another manager would have won them the league by now. Who knows? Maybe we should also sack Ten Hag.
Even if we somehow kept him after all of this - and I don’t think we will - the level of performance we’d demand from him in his third season would probably mean he has very little chance of a new deal or a long term future anyway.
I think our squad is beyond the 8th place finishes now, yet Ten Hag somehow achieved it still. But if we had a young team that was playing excellent football and challenging one of the best PL teams of all time, within 2 or 3 years, that would be fecking amazing progress. Call me nuts if you want. What do you expect in terms of progress?
I reckon if Arteta took over here we wouldn't finish 8th again. If we had the team he inherited then maybe. Probably bottom half under an inferior manager like Ten Hag. But we don't, we're miles better than that team.
It's not about Ten hag for me . It's about what is required to put us back on top . Whoever that may be .
Time is speeding along , there isn't a massive lot of difference between being a club that hadn't won the league for 19 years when Saf took over to a club that is currently 11 years in .
The expectation is no different , if anything it's higher , you are saying ' it's okay to finish 8th " now ?
It clearly isn't otherwise this thread wouldn't exist .
The constant progression that is demanded by some for a manager to continue isn't realistically possible without torpedoing the first season .
The independent going hard today in that Southgate is our priority and hence there is delay on any decision.If that is the case it's hardly a ringing endorsement for our supposed no 1 defensive target ie Branthwaite.
I suppose you could say that our clueless fans don't want him, so he'd probably be great. Whatever we suggest, do the opposite basically.
I don't want him either. But I do think we'd be better under him than ETH.
I think this is called covering all bases
He has shown that he cannot do it here. He's made us a lot worse than we were 12 months ago. We haven't been in a worse state from a footballing and squad perspective the last 35 years, despite the FA cup win.
It's not possible to make a positive spin on his last 12 months here. A football disaster is the right description.
He has proven by example that managing Ajax and managing Manchester United is not translatable. Ajax pressure (around 50th biggest club in the world) and Manchester United (3rd biggest club in the world) pressure is not comparable.
Did he really do a rebuild at Ajax? Ajax has allways been a selling club despite being the best club in the Netherlands, so they are in a kind of constant rebuild as their best players leave every other year, like it's allways been.
Many want to keep him despite finishing 8th.
What do you mean regarding torpedoing the first season? You mean under a new manager? In my opinion we're hitting reset anyway, we don't even want the football Ten Hag has been delivering or delivered at Ajax, by the sounds of it. So he's no better off than another manager. Maybe even worse off as he's not got the track record for delivering the type of football we want. I think if we want a certain type of football, go find a coach that has shown they can deliver it.
Hopefully talking out of their arses on it
The only way I can accept Southgate is an interim. There's too much smoke on this so there's probably fire.
The problem is that two weeks after the season ended, we're still stuck with maybes.
When clubs decide to let a manager go they normally say it before securing a replacement. So I am fearing they just haven't decided.
Nah, it wasn't obvious at all what Arteta was doing. Stop saying it was. I'm not sure anyone was 'wrong' either, that's all very hindsight-y. If ETH stays and does well next sesson, were the people who criticised him in real-time wrong? Nah, not for me. Arteta was criticised rightfully when he was finishing near midtable, and rightly praised when he improved.
Arteta was heavily backed and it worked out in the end. It's not a blueprint though, it's a complete and utter outliner. Our fans would fecking riot if an unproven manager got 8th, 8th and 5th after 2.5 seasons and don't pretend otherwise. Anyhow, he's going into his 5th full season and if he wins nothing, questions will have to be asked.
ETH should probably be sacked yeah, but that's not really the conversation. Who knows how he'll do if he stays under some actual footballing people. After all Arteta had Edu - who seems very good at his job - in a Sporting Director role when he joined. For me though, nah, I don't think he has what it takes.
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But Arteta wasn't playing remotely exciting football early days so it's a moot point. I think you're confusing him with Klopp. You're vastly overstating what kind of patience fans will have. And you're also vastly overating our squad.
How is Southgate rated only by 3 People in the whole world and these 3 People happen to be decision makers at Man Utd.
The point is that Arsenal were overperforming massively when Arteta came in his first season, and you were referring to expected points and gd.
So when you look at the underlying data for Arteta's first 2-3 seasons at Arsenal it was very clear that they were getting better even when the points on the board was similar to the season (1st and 2nd season) before. His second full season (3rd) it was also visible on the league table. Arteta showed progression (as the underlying numbers tell quite clearly), despite what unhappy fans on redit said. Steady progression.
And again:
ETH has taken us from a good season (not fantastic season), to, according to the underlying numbers, the worst we've been in the premier league era. That is a fact it's hard to make a positive spin on.
It's not progression, it's many, many steps back. And we do not know if we're on the bottom yet. Domestic cup trophies or not, fact is that we're farther from being a serious contender in the PL or CL than we've been the last 35 years. The distance between us and the best teams in the world is at it's bottom peak right now......hopefully.
See the difference?
Any new manager is a gamble ….Tuchel would be a gamble worth taking.
Ten Hag has already clearly demonstrated Utd won’t be winning the PL with him as manager.
Yeah between Southgate and the dragging on of this entire thing INEOS can do one, these feckers are just another form of the Glazers with better PR.
I see many arguments in regard to progression that Ten hag isn't meeting . Arteta 8, 8, 5. Klopp 8 , 4 .
The torpedoing comment is in regards to giving oneself a chance to show progression .
Overachieving in a first season makes it incredibly difficult . 3, 2, 1?
I might be interpreting the demands of the fanbase incorrectly , but when looked at , top 4 , implement play style , then continuos upward progress until ultimate goal is reached , doesn't seem to be the same parameters that were applied to Arteta .
He'd have gone after 8 , nevermind , 8 , 8.
The frustration for me , is that regardless of who we get , unless they get an incredible amount of luck , they just aren't going to satisfy the unrealistic criteria enough to allow themselves the time required to build a top team
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PPG doesn’t really mean anything in cups. They got just 10 points in group stage vs us getting 15, and they won 1 game of each knockout round (drawing the other and losing the one v Villarreal), so naturally came up lower than us.
At least the Glazers mostly went with sensible choices, they didn't work out but you could see the logic in most appointments.
Been here less than 5 months, already seen over an FA Cup win, already brought in a top CEO, have a highly rated technical director in and have a highly rated DoF on the way.
”Just another form of Glazers”.
Should probably give them a few more months before spitting your dummy?
An interim to who? We should just keep ETH if it's an interim manager their looking for. Southgate would be the most underwhelming manager at United since SAF retired. If this goes on much longer I'd not blame ETH one bit if he walked away.
Wouldn't be surprised if it is Southgate. If this guy Ashworth once thought he would groom G Nev to be the England manager, then anything is possible. Also, Brexit means Brexit!
On Redcafe? I bet ya there would be tons. If in an off chance Gareth is appointed, I would DM you 10 names and each & everyone one of them will be making a case for him and calling everyone who has doubts bedwetters, kneejerkers, etc. etc.
On Redcafe? I bet ya there would be tons. If in an off chance Gareth is appointed, I would DM you 10 names and each & everyone one of them will be making a case for him and calling everyone who has doubts bedwetters, kneejerkers, etc. etc.
And committed to a stadium redevelopment.
It's shameful that a decision hasn't been made yet.
I bet those decision makers didn’t want to upset him on his holidays and are just waiting him to return then break the news to him
Taking too long now and doesn't fill you with confidence regarding INEOS...
I need to know what @Plant0x84 makes of this. The biggest INEOS-inner during the last year and they are about to lump us with Gareth bloody Southgate 
I also see us signing a LOT of English players over the next years. The Brexit Jim thing ain't a myth.
I also see us signing a LOT of English players over the next years. The Brexit Jim thing ain't a myth.
Southgate might be the only thing that would make me want Ten Hag to stay.
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