Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[NotChatGPT]

You don't know that. If they interview him, and the way he wants to work is exactly how we want him to work, then there might be no issues. His falling out with other clubs has been for reasons such as them not being aligned on transfers (and Dortmund CEO Watzke wanting their CL game to go ahead after somebody tried to blow their team up, which Tuchel understandably didn't like).

Weird take.

Oh if we'd only known in advance that Mourinho was an absolute knobhead, maybe it would've been alright.

The key here is their personality being an absolute strain on relationships with players and higher ups

It''s great that you won't be surprised by it, but you're still going to hit that brick wall. What you gamble on is the amount of success in that short period.

 

[romufc]

You see that's the problem, your takes are completely removed from reality. The manager literally tells you that he wants the team to be the best transition team in the world during his second preseason and you have the audacity to claim that he wants to move away from a counter attacking style and keep in mind that it was after coaching Antony, Sancho and Eriksen for an entire season.

You do realise there is a massive difference between counter attacking and best transitional team?

Counter attack is sit deep wait for the opportunity and sprint. Transition team is high press win the ball high up and transition in a few passes.

There is differences there.

He also said he wants to be possession team, which is why he signed Onana, Licha. But yeah I am removed from reality

 

[NotChatGPT]

- True to the first point to an extent. But then you look at the relative impact in our case and it doesn’t quite fall into line. So basically we’ve had big problems in defence with injuries but our attack has generally been available, yet it is our goalscoring record that has been a massive hindrance to us this season.

You do understand that the two are intertwined? Our injury crisis in defence has corresponded with the vast majority of midfielders having an off/bad season, that's a bad combination for any team.

 

[Wilt]

I'm keeping it extremely real.

Three seasons in to Alex Ferguson's career at Man Utd, just look at what people said about him. Absolutely none of them would have predicted what he went on to do. Had someone compared him to Busby, someone like yourself would have said "Try keep it real...best not compare Ferguson to Busby"

The chances that ETH will ever be at that level are remote, just like every other manager. But, if we keep sacking managers every time we go through a bit of a bad patch, then we'll never know who could be the next great manager. We basically have to hope that we get a new manager, and they somehow get this side playing great football over the first few years of their reign. All that despite the squad is a long way behind other sides right now, even if we forget injuries and much of the instability behind the scenes.

SAF Busby ETH ….there’s no comparison, different times, different players being virtually all British.

Ten Hag has the worlds most expensive squad ….record losses, 8th, minus goal difference.

No more excuses.

 

[VP89]

SAF Busby ETH ….there’s no comparison, different times, different players being virtually all British.

Ten Hag has the worlds most expensive squad ….record losses, 8th, minus goal difference.

No more excuses.

I think it will take a ton of patience and ups and downs within the early years of squad building here. Managers need room for mistakes and managers need support, and that doesn't mean being given a lot of money without a proper identification of club targets.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You see that's the problem, your takes are completely removed from reality. The manager literally tells you that he wants the team to be the best transition team in the world during his second preseason and you have the audacity to claim that he wants to move away from a counter attacking style and keep in mind that it was after coaching Antony, Sancho and Eriksen for an entire season.

@JPRouve counter attacking and transition football aren’t the same thing.

Transition Football, not to be confused with Counterattacking Football, focusses on pressing and counterpressing in midfield. The purpose is to win the ball in a relatively close range to the opposing goal, using the disorganisation of the other team to catch them off-guard.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

You do understand that the two are intertwined? Our injury crisis in defence has corresponded with the vast majority of midfielders having an off/bad season, that's a bad combination for any team.

United scored 1 more goal in last season's league campaign (58) without an injury crisis or the vast majority of the midfielders having an off/bad season.

 

[Apokalips]

You do realize that all the possession players that you listed are perfectly able to play counter attacking Football? And most teams do not have like for like backups, it's a very rare thing, currently you maybe have City in that situation and that's not even actually the case.

Honestly, a lot of the arguments for keeping Ten Hag do not appear to be anything to do with the man himself and his ability, but rather these weird convoluted reasons people keep making up.

 

[JPRouve]

You do realise there is a massive difference between counter attacking and best transitional team?

Counter attack is sit deep wait for the opportunity and sprint. Transition team is high press win the ball high up and transition in a few passes.

There is differences there.

He also said he wants to be possession team, which is why he signed Onana, Licha. But yeah I am removed from reality

No there isn't.

A transition team is a team that focuses on breaking and/or creating play during the transition phases, it's as simple as that. There are multiple flavours of it, at both extremes you can be a gegenpress team or you could be a catenaccio team both are transition focused teams. The opposition to that is less common nowadays and it's teams that focus on containment during transition defense and a very structured(relatively slow) chance creation scheme in the final third, a typical example of that is LVG's favored tactics.

Now "possession" teams are often also transition teams in today's game, the only difference is that if the attacking transition fails, they don't take risks, they don't try to surprise(as ETH put it), they follow a recycling and resetting phase. But their primary approach is counter attacking and counter pressing. In reality a large amount of teams that are labelled as possession teams due to high possession rates aren't possession teams, they are just excellent transition teams that regain possession very quickly(2016 Tottenham being a typical example, Ajax in the CL around 2019 or Liverpool post 2017).

 

[Wilt]

I think it will take a ton of patience and ups and downs within the early years of squad building here. Managers need room for mistakes and managers need support, and that doesn't mean being given a lot of money without a proper identification of club targets.

Agreed, but don’t think Ten Hag is the man for the job. It seems he’s not capable of consistently motivating the players.

 

[NotChatGPT]

United scored 1 more goal in last season's league campaign (58) without an injury crisis or the vast majority of the midfielders having an off/bad season.

I seem to recall finishing in the top 4 last season, not 8th.

If we score two goals less next season, let in 10 goals more, and win the league, you'll see how many complaints?

 

[VP89]

Agreed, but don’t think Ten Hag is the man for the job. It seems he’s not capable of consistently motivating the players.

To be honest I don't think it's a motivation issue. He needs to tweak his system which I think he can do

 

[lex talionis]

Wait, what? You make it sound like it was a lucky Hail Mary long shot, but it was a very well orchestrated attack - the finish was the least of it.

Wait, what? A brilliant strike can folllow a brilliant assist. Take nothing away from Bruno, or even the pass from Rashford that started the attack, but the finish from Mainoo was brilliant. Nothing “lucky” about it.

 

[romufc]

No there isn't.

A transition team is a team that focuses on breaking and/or creating play during the transition phases, it's as simple as that. There are multiple flavours of it, at both extremes you can be a gegenpress team or you could be a catenaccio team both are transition focused teams. The opposition to that is less common nowadays and it's teams that focus on containment during transition defense and a very structured(relatively slow) chance creation scheme in the final third, a typical example of that is LVG's favored tactics.

Now "possession" teams are often also transition teams in today's game, the only difference is that if the attacking transition fails, they don't take risks, they don't try to surprise(as ETH put it), they follow a recycling and resetting phase. But their primary approach is counter attacking and counter pressing. In reality a large amount of teams that are labelled as possession teams due to high possession rates aren't possession teams, they are just excellent transition teams that regain possession very quickly(2016 Tottenham being a typical example, Ajax in the CL around 2019 or Liverpool post 2017).

You have just described it. Counter pressing = high line, you cant counter press with a low block.

Counter attack football is low block wait around and exploit the high line. It works very well against better teams such as City / Liverpool / Arsenal when you are 0-0 or 1-0 up.

As soon as you go a goal down, those tactics go out the window as the teams just dominate the ball.

 

[Blood Mage]

I dont know how many more managers you want to see before realising its bigger than the manager. Every manager we have hired in the last 11 years has suffered the same fate.

What have any of the managers we've sacked done since leaving? Relatively feck all unless you count the conference league as a massive achievement. Sick of this argument.

Yeah the squad is a mess but the managers we've hired can't be absolved of blame on that basis. Mourinho was the only one who was good enough but he was a busted flush by the time we hired him.

 

[lex talionis]

They objectively didn't and you can check the stats.

I don't get why you keep saying we can't replicate it, of course you can. Erik has no answer when he doesn't have the exact team he wants and clearly has issues managing a squad, but the tactics against City are not the issue.

You are correct in that the Garnacho chance on goal was as glorious a chance as it could possibly be. Open net and the keeper literally five yards behind, there was zero chance that even Garnacho’s dead great grandma would have missed that shot.

As for replicating these tactics against every other opponent in the PL, there’s no chance in a million years that Ipswich and Wolves will come to Old Trafford and we’ll let them have 70% possession and we’ll hit them on counters.

 

[Posh Red]

Wait, what? A brilliant strike can folllow a brilliant assist. Take nothing away from Bruno, or even the pass from Rashford that started the attack, but the finish from Mainoo was brilliant. Nothing “lucky” about it.

It was a one-on-one with the keeper. To reduce it to ‘a fantastic strike’ is definitely insinuating it was a moment of brilliance, rather than a great team goal.

 

[JPRouve]

You have just described it. Counter pressing = high line, you cant counter press with a low block.

Counter attack football is low block wait around and exploit the high line. It works very well against better teams such as City / Liverpool / Arsenal when you are 0-0 or 1-0 up.

As soon as you go a goal down, those tactics go out the window as the teams just dominate the ball.

Of course you can counter press with a low block. Firs the notion of low block is when you are in you final defensive setup which is after the transition and you counter press your attackers and midfielders in the attacking and neutral zones, so unless for some reason your team is never in an attacking set than every team can counter press.

And no counter attacking has nothing to do with a low, mid or high blocks, it literally is about what you do the moment you regained possession. You either counter attack or transition into a predetermined attacking structure.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Why do people say “I can see him staying given the alternatives available”? He’s in the same/similar upcoming manager tier as the widely reported shortlisted ones, and he’s older than all of them

Isn't Frank older than ten Hag?

 

[TsuWave]

Isn't Frank older than ten Hag?

Nope

 

[JPRouve]

Isn't Frank older than ten Hag?

Thomas Frank? No, he is 3 or 4 years younger.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Nope

Thomas Frank? No, he is 3 or 4 years younger.

For some reason I thought he was in his mid 50's.

 

[Overhaul FC]

I bet on Ten Hag staying.

The news coming out today points to him being taken away from recruitment of players and being given choices based from the recruitment team....

I think Ten Hag stays with slightly reduced responsibilities under the new structure, and if he wanted to stay past his current contract he'd have to agree to that anyway.

I think Ten Hag wants to stay so can see this now being resolved with atleast him seeing his final year out. With a view to earning his shiny new extension after a few months of next season.

IF we sign well, and IF the fully fit team doesn't do well next season then we all know how this will end with others waiting in the wings for next season. But he's earned the chance atleast with the FA Cup win and the last 3/4 performances at the end of the season as players started returning.

 

[quadrant]

Don’t really understand the logic here. Why would it suddenly make smaller clubs start winning it? In about 30 years of FA and League Cup finals you can name the handful of non big six teams who’ve won those competitions.
Wigan, Portsmouth, Swansea, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Birmingham. The other 54 finals have been won by United, city, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs.

If anything it would make the bigger clubs take it even more seriously, in particular those not looking like finishing in the top four.

Who actually won it til now is besides the point, because a CL place was not on the line, so therefore we can't use that to judge how smaller teams would perform if one were.

A club entering the competition in the 3rd Round has 6 matches to win to get the trophy, and chances are 2 or 3 of them will be against relative minnows. I don't think you can disagree that's easier to achieve for a team like, say, Wolves, than finishing 4th over a 38 game season. And for Championship teams, there is currently zero chance of getting into the CL. So clearly their chances would be improved.

Besides, if the big clubs took it more seriously, guess what? That would also make the competition more exciting. Hell, if you're Man United or Chelsea, aiming for top 4 next yr but with minimal chances of winning the league, the FA Cup might feel more important than the league.

 

[JPRouve]

For some reason I thought he was in his mid 50's.

He looks 50 since 2018, so I share your surprise.

 

[El Jefe]

Manager worship United.

Having SAF be our manager for all those years has done irreversible damage to some of our fans I fear. Not only is there and stupidly high level of tolerance, there is also the flawed belief that time can guarantee better results.

It’s not just EtH either, every manager that has left has been treated as some sort of martyr. EtH is the most baffling but even then the months after Rangnick left was some of the most bewildering shit I’ve ever seen with the way his fans acted and still reference him till today.

The season we just endured would have seen EtH sacked before the end of the season at every single top club. Moyes is the only manager to get less than two seasons here while other top club have canned managers far quicker than we have.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He looks 50 since 2018, so I share your surprise.

 

[Xaviboy]

I bet on Ten Hag staying.

The news coming out today points to him being taken away from recruitment of players and being given choices based from the recruitment team....

I think Ten Hag stays with slightly reduced responsibilities under the new structure, and if he wanted to stay past his current contract he'd have to agree to that anyway.

I think Ten Hag wants to stay so can see this now being resolved with atleast him seeing his final year out. With a view to earning his shiny new extension after a few months of next season.

IF we sign well, and IF the fully fit team doesn't do well next season then we all know how this will end with others waiting in the wings for next season. But he's earned the chance atleast with the FA Cup win and the last 3/4 performances at the end of the season as players started returning.

What about playing style? Is Ten Hag going to change to what INEOS want?

What if INEOS say need to be more possession based/control matches cant see Ten Hag changing to suit INEOS.

He has been trying to implement a style of football lastc24 months and not working.
We can't score or defend. Evidence is there from this season.

 

[JPRouve]

What about playing style? Is Ten Hag going to change to what INEOS want?

What if INEOS say need to be more possession based/control matches cant see Ten Hag changing to suit INEOS.

He has been trying to implement a style of football lastc24 months and not working.
We can't score or defend. Evidence is there from this season.

He has adapted to Ajax, so in theory there is no good reason for him to not do it at United.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

What are you on about? Succession planning is a crucial part of any dismissal. Getting rid of ETH for Southgate/Potter/Poch/McKenna would be utter madness. Tuchel might be ok, but the risk with him is his volatility.

Sticking with ETH is objectively the best option.

I don’t agree at all, if INEOS do an assessment and believe that he is capable of taking us to the next level & this season was just a blip then they should keep him. If they on the other hand have doubts about him then they should let him go. You can’t predict options available 6-12 months from now either. What if you keep him just because you feel that the options available aren’t good enough and then 12 months down the line the options are even worse and you have wasted another season ?

 

[VP89]

He has adapted to Ajax, so in theory there is no good reason for him to not do it at United.

Where do you stand on Ten Hag?

 

[Jimble]

If UTD are not going to sack him then they need to come out & say so, the season is over, they need to get it sorted now.

Why would they announce effectively nothing? The club never said they were considering sacking him, that was the press. If the club had to respond to everything the press said about united, they'd have a hell of a job on their hands. Heck, they'd need to employ one person just to respond to sportsbible articles.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Be kind of funny if he is kept on after all the media dubbed the FA Cup final as his last game, if nothing else it would just underline that they haven't a clue.

 

[Adisa]

The only manager out there I would take ahead of him is Xavi and not because I think Xavi is better. Just think he might be a better fit for the kind of football I want us to play.
I am not interested in the other names.

 

[TheNewEra]

My stance is the same all season, I'd keep him.

There are no other candidates I still see ETH as a top coach but luck hasn't been on our side this year, and all the backroom uncertainty wouldn't have helped.

I think with a fully fit young team and a clear style of play from Wilcox/Ashworth I think we'll challenge within 3 years, and we will get a trophy or two along the way.

We just can't rely on Casemiro being fit, Varane is gone, so those are two positions we need. We also need to ship out a few of our wingers and get the likes of Olise or someone of that profile.

I think in the summer if we get a LB/RB cover, a CB (Todibo, Branthwaite or both), a dominant midfielder and a Winger, a Striker to rotate with Hojlund then we should be in a good place. I'd expect top 4 next year whilst the team gels and make it to a final like Europa League or one of the domestic cups.

I think ETH is going to pay off long term especially developing young players.

 

[Kirk lazarus]

Manager worship United.

Having SAF be our manager for all those years has done irreversible damage to some of our fans I fear. Not only is there and stupidly high level of tolerance, there is also the flawed belief that time can guarantee better results.

What are you suggesting here ?
That we should give managers even less time than we have ?

Nobody post Saf has had 3 seasons .


The top 3 teams in the league all have managers that have been there longer than 3 years .

I know what you are going to say , you can't compare ETH to klopp or pep or something along those lines . You might get away with that if it wasn't for Arteta being one of the 3 .

Don't tell me , I know , you could always tell that Arteta was special .

 

[Withnail]

Be kind of funny if he is kept on after all the media dubbed the FA Cup final as his last game, if nothing else it would just underline that they haven't a clue.

I'm not sure why anyone is paying attention to anything the media is saying under the new regime.

Previously the club was leakier than OT's roof and there was a lot of no smoke without fire stories. However, since INEOS came in things seem to have changed. The press haven't really got much of a sniff ahead of time, have they?

 

[JPRouve]

Where do you stand on Ten Hag?

First I believe that he is normally a good head coach because that's what his career shows for the most part. Now today I don't trust him, he sabotaged our season with silly tactical setups and refused to fix it until a few weeks ago but as long as he recognizes it and the club believes that they can manage the character flaws that he exposed then I'm fine with giving him a chance to redeem himself. If the club decides that they can't or shouldn't trust him then I'm fine with his sacking.

 

[Ludens the Red]

You do understand that the two are intertwined? Our injury crisis in defence has corresponded with the vast majority of midfielders having an off/bad season, that's a bad combination for any team.

It didn’t seem to effect 85 goal Newcastle whom the majority of their injuries were in their defence yet they still managed to produce high volume attacking returns. Unless of course you would readily state Eddie Howe is a better football coach and Newcastle have better attackers than United? That would then make sense..

Who actually won it til now is besides the point, because a CL place was not on the line, so therefore we can't use that to judge how smaller teams would perform if one were.

A club entering the competition in the 3rd Round has 6 matches to win to get the trophy, and chances are 2 or 3 of them will be against relative minnows. I don't think you can disagree that's easier to achieve for a team like, say, Wolves, than finishing 4th over a 38 game season. And for Championship teams, there is currently zero chance of getting into the CL. So clearly their chances would be improved.

Besides, if the big clubs took it more seriously, guess what? That would also make the competition more exciting. Hell, if you're Man United or Chelsea, aiming for top 4 next yr but with minimal chances of winning the league, the FA Cup might feel more important than the league.

By sheer statistical chance well of course your chances of winning would increase because it’s a cup competition not a league. That’s just stating the obvious. In reality though it doesn't really.

And you absolutely can use previous winners as an indictment. I mean ffs do you think a footballer becomes a footballer to simply “play in the champions league”. You don’t think these lesser players don’t dream of a cup final at Wembley or better yet winning it. How many times have we seen lower league teams have an absolute ball after knocking out a higher league oppponent. That’s because of the desire to progress in a cup competition, play big teams, get the prize money, get a day out at Wembley. Incentive has always been there and still they haven’t been able to win it with any regularity. Adding a cl spot would make feck all difference. It would literally only make all of the big 6 take it extra seriously and not rest players as much and that’s about it. And your point was actually that the big six would be against it because it would open it up for smaller clubs. A nonsense really because as we’ve seen with the super league/Cl expansion, they are desperate for more Cl spaces.

 

[Red in STL]

The squad is certainly capable but Southgate isn't. Should've won something by now with this golden generation

Why should England have won something by now? They don't have the divine right to win feck all, only 1 England manager has ever won anything and only other manager to have gotten them to a final is the current one, if Southgate is that bad what does that say about some of his predessors