He wouldn't be expected to build a squad, he is a head coach and that's true for pretty much everyone.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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He wouldn't be expected to build a squad, he is a head coach and that's true for pretty much everyone.
The squad is supposed to be built by the 'structure' not the manager. That's the whole point of having a 'modern' football system.
We don't have a squad, so what will he do next season? Our structure isn't even in place yet.
Cox is in. Barrada comes in July and Ashworth we dont know. Then they will assess the squad and decide what players are needed.
It all just seems contradictory. INEOS reports saying they are looking at younger players whilst Tuchel gets more experienced signings wherever he goes.
In all seriousness how many managers today have a track record of 'building a squad'?
Managerial tenures are pretty short so few people build a squad. Most of the ones who do, aren't building them at top level teams.
That leaves' long-running managers at successful PL clubs' and United aren't signing those because those are your rival managers.
Managerial tenures are pretty short so few people build a squad. Most of the ones who do, aren't building them at top level teams.
That leaves' long-running managers at successful PL clubs' and United aren't signing those because those are your rival managers.
I guess one thing is, do they think there might be more interesting long term options available in a year? Eg they were obviously interested in McKenna, but the lack of premiership experience is clearly a hefty point against. Iraola has had a promising spell, can he carry it on? Or Glasner? Etc.
While some people are obviously fine with replacements like Tuchel and Poch, I'm not at all enthusiastic about either for differing reasons. If the higher ups think one of those more unproven guys will be more fitting with their long term ambitions but are a year away from being ready for the job, maybe you do keep your powder dry rather than go for the short term journeymen.
I'm in the rationalisation stage tbh.
While some people are obviously fine with replacements like Tuchel and Poch, I'm not at all enthusiastic about either for differing reasons. If the higher ups think one of those more unproven guys will be more fitting with their long term ambitions but are a year away from being ready for the job, maybe you do keep your powder dry rather than go for the short term journeymen.
I'm in the rationalisation stage tbh.
What are you on about? Succession planning is a crucial part of any dismissal. Getting rid of ETH for Southgate/Potter/Poch/McKenna would be utter madness. Tuchel might be ok, but the risk with him is his volatility.
Sticking with ETH is objectively the best option.
I guess the disconnect for me is that “a replacement may not do as well” isn’t reason enough to keep someone that has, imo, underperformed/presided over our worst ever prem campaign. The likes of Pep and Klopp are generational and don’t come around often, so do we just stick with Ten Hag indefinitely for fear of change? Guardiola’s first top level role was the Barcelona hot seat after overseeing their B-team. I’d argue McKenna at this point is more proven than Guardiola was then. Sometimes big clubs have/need to take risks.
We supposedly employed Ten Hag due to the work he was doing at Ajax, but he gets here and says he’ll never play like his Ajax team played - and the football he’s seemingly attempted to play here has resulted in some of our heaviest losses in the modern era and our worst ever prem finish - not to mention reportedly constantly falling out with players - so I’d question his “good fit” credentials for our club. Maybe the Simeone’s and Conte’s that people so readily dismiss - I’m assuming due to perceive quality of football - would be a better fit, since Ten Hag’s own brand isn’t exactly pulling up trees, and he's also been quite acerbic personality wise.
Although I agree with that, its clearly not true at Manutd.
Every manager that has come in has got their type of players, so when the manager gets sacked and then they get a manager that plays completely different style. Moyes -> LVG -> Jose -> Ole -> EtH now people want Tuchel so going back to Jose style.
You are not going to win anything when you appoint managers that are opposites every 2 years.
Laughable knee jerk support for Ten Hag.
Guarantee the next loss (Charity Shield?) the same people will be screaming SACK!
Guarantee the next loss (Charity Shield?) the same people will be screaming SACK!
Same source a few months later:
https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...chel-bayern-munich-max-eberl-christoph-freund
Senior players tried to convince the club to keep Tuchel. Apparently with most of the players backing that approach.
Which paints a picture that he didn't fall out with all the players, but just with some who actually are a problem for the club. Laimer always was going to be a backup, so I don't think mentioning him is that important, Kimmich and Goretzka don't work well together any longer, that's also obvious. And Tuchel isn't alone with that thinking, considering that Nagelsmann pushed Kimmich to RB and pushed Goretzka completely out of Germany's team.
We do have a squad and whoever the head coach is they will coach players and try to get the most out of the squad.
If UTD are not going to sack him then they need to come out & say so, the season is over, they need to get it sorted now.
Look at our squad.
Maguire, Linedlof, Varane, Shaw, Licha, AWB, Dalot, Malacia, Casemiro, Kobbie, Eriksen, Antony, Sancho, Rashford, Diallo, Hojlund, Mount, Bruno, Onana, Byandir.
Its a mix and match of technical possession players (Sancho, Diallo, Kobbie, Licha, Eriksen, Antony) and Counter attack (Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Lindelof).
I mean none of the backups are like for like. Its a mess of a squad and giving it to a Tuchel will be a mistake. We will see him get top 4 1st season and blow out in his second season where he gets sacked and we will be back here after 2 years again.
There is evidence of this, LVG, Jose, Ole, Ten Hag all had good first seasons to build and boom, falls apart. Tuchel will be no different.
Will a new manager play Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund week in week out and introduce Diallo more next season? Some fans need to be careful what they wish for getting in a new manager. Ten Hag has no issues playing youngsters. Other managers might prefer seasoned professionals. One of the reasons why I’m pro Ten Hag for at least one more season with proper Backroom staff supporting him on transfers and keep playing the youngsters. Proper defensive midfield signings should sort though leaky goals this summer along with a new partner for Martinez. Pity we can’t keep Varane on a pay as your available deal.
I'm keeping it extremely real.
Three seasons in to Alex Ferguson's career at Man Utd, just look at what people said about him. Absolutely none of them would have predicted what he went on to do. Had someone compared him to Busby, someone like yourself would have said "Try keep it real...best not compare Ferguson to Busby"
The chances that ETH will ever be at that level are remote, just like every other manager. But, if we keep sacking managers every time we go through a bit of a bad patch, then we'll never know who could be the next great manager. We basically have to hope that we get a new manager, and they somehow get this side playing great football over the first few years of their reign. All that despite the squad is a long way behind other sides right now, even if we forget injuries and much of the instability behind the scenes.
This!
However if INEOS are going to show their intentions around raising standards, ETH needs to be sacked. FA Cup or no FA Cup, have people forgotten we threw a 3-0 lead away to fecking Coventry City in the semi's and needed penalties to get through? That he's wasted a fortune on mediocre players, Antony being unforgivable. That we have no dominance of possession against even bottom half PL teams and if I recall correctly after the final, he said something like he thinks replacing Varane, Martial and adding a midfielder will put us back into a competitive state. That's without the dismal record after record he's broken while being at the helm. Ragnick was spot on and the club still needs the surgery he talked about.
The longer it goes on for me, the more likely it is that he stays. In fact if we don't get something this week I'd be shocked if he's given the boot. We need to plan for next season and we need the manager in place asap to do that. I'd hope we're exploring the options available and talking to potential candidates to see what an alternative coaching direction would look like.
Whoever the manager is will not be building the squad anymore. Vast majority of clubs have a "mix and match" squad, we're not unique.
Which manager have we hired that has an issue playing youth? It’s been a requirement forever. The question is who will develop youth the best.. All managers on your shortlist have a track record of improving players and young players at that too. (Poch; Tuchel; Frank). I think this is the final three now McKenna is out.
You do realize that all the possession players that you listed are perfectly able to play counter attacking Football? And most teams do not have like for like backups, it's a very rare thing, currently you maybe have City in that situation and that's not even actually the case.
Ole's problem was the dreadful, no style of play football. I can see what Ten Hag is trying to achieve here even if it doesnt show every week - the City game is a microcosm of it working - the best transition team in the world.
Is that not what an interview process is for? To discuss a managers vision to see if it matches ours?
I have seen Sancho Antony Eriksen play counter attacking, they have 0 pace, which means they cant play the quick transition football.
Most clubs have players that play a system and are good in the system. We have evidence that none of Manutd players are good enough unless we are sitting back and playing a long ball to the wingers. In the last 10 years, thats how we have got the best results, which is why we can win the odd cup and have poor league campaigns.
The first year the manager plays counter attack and we ship less goals and get good results, the second season we try to develop a more attacking style and it comes falling down because the players cant play that style.
I dont know how many more managers you want to see before realising its bigger than the manager. Every manager we have hired in the last 11 years has suffered the same fate.
I don't want to hear a peep out of the Ten Hag inners if we keep him and we're languishing in mid-table by Christmas with another season written off.
England needs to send its best teams into the competition and that's found out by using league positions. Remember Millwall getting to the final in 2003 due to lucky draws? Do we want a scenario like that where teams fluke their way to a cup?
So are you saying that if Ten Hag is sacked we will win something big next season? Because for me writing of a season is No PL title.
They'll have a number of excuses lined up for him like 'he didn't get De Jong'.
Yeah that's the ultimate nightmare isn't it
“one of the reasons Ten Hag has failed is because he had to oversee squad building. We want structure so the coach doesn’t have to do this moving forward”
“Tuchel is yet to display the ability of building a squad. Therefore we should rule him out as a Ten Hag replacement”
Completely agree with this
I thought the overall complaints that they were drilled in a certain way under Guardiola, and Ancelottis approach wasn't really suited for them.
Showing progress in our style of play and finishing top 4 would be a successful season.
Why are people so taken in by this fraud of a manager? Professionally, this is a guy that struggles with teams like Coventry,Newport and Sheffield United (injuries notwithstanding,he should be able to deal with these without too much fuss) . He is the only manager who thinks that Anthony is 'unplayable'. Even on a personal level this is a man who believes that Overmaars is a stand-up guy and Ajax mistreated him. What,exactly, is it that people find in him that is so admirable? Every name that is being mentioned is an upgrade on him(yes,even the loathed Southgate).
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So basically writing of a season. So if Ten Hag stays and gets top 4 and style its successful season?
Does that mean Ole was a successful manager cause he got 2 top 4 finishes?
No one should want this? Issue for another thread maybe, but we don't want to be burning these kids out, and relying on them too heavily at their young age, especially Mainoo. We need to have a squad of players we can rely upon.
Wow! So more people want to keep Ten Hag now than sack him? I don’t understand this at all. What if we had lost the final? What if we lose the first two games of the season? This is the right moment to get a new manager in to give him a full pre-season. Not during the season when things go wrong again. And things will go wrong because the mistakes Ten Hag made during this terrible season will come back, undoubtedly.
You see that's the problem, your takes are completely removed from reality. The manager literally tells you that he wants the team to be the best transition team in the world during his second preseason and you have the audacity to claim that he wants to move away from a counter attacking style and keep in mind that it was after coaching Antony, Sancho and Eriksen for an entire season.
Yeah but unfortunately they will make us wait
Give it a week.
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Our attack has also been primarily comprised of a CF who came to us injured with no rotation option available due to Martial’s perennial injured state.
We’ve had a teenager who has been our main wider threat, again no one should reasonably expect consistency or lots of returns here, and then finally Rashford who has been off form this season (possibly due to complete lack of support from his usual overlapper in Shaw). We’ve also lost Sancho and Greenwood for their varying levels of being arseholes.
As for Chelsea you can see in the thread I said maybe you swap Gallagher out but he’s been captain for a lot of the season so I’m genuinely unsure where you’d play Nkunku im guessing he’d start over Sterling and maybe Jackson but he’s such a different profile it’s hard to say. I’ve also not left them out because if you look I’ve done the whole squad in the spoiler section. They are part of the first team squad agreed. Not necessarily the starting XI.
1/5 of Colwill’s career to date has been playing LB. I’d argue he’s pretty good their in the same way Gvardiol is a CB who can play LB.
Sterling has 10 goals and 8 assists this season so he’s performed ok.
I’ll get back to you on Newcastle once I’ve finished their analysis.
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