So you’re saying ETH wanted us to spend 50m on a player with one year left to sit on the bench?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I personally would have jumped at McKenna and am 60/40 on Tuchel.
Convincing Xabi Alonso to come next year would be ideal in fairness but thats a pipe dream I reckon.
Im sure I'm not alone when I say the likes of Potter/Frank/Southgate arent exactly leaping off the page as cant miss prospects.
There are loads of players who sit on the bench.
Maguire, Antony, AWB, Mount and even Hojlund recently
Its called rotation.
It’s not rotation when Mount barely starts when he’s been fit.
You make a highly prescient point, poster. That’s really a huge Factor (or should be) in the forward looking debate. Will we have the same level of absenteeism in the upcoming as we did this season? Rooney (wrongly I hope) put some of it down to player power etc. But what is the primary cause of all these injuries? We really need to figure this out. Eric said something like he knew the reason a while back, but this is not enough. What’s wrong? How is it fixed?
I'm pretty sure Arteta didn't have negative goal difference after his first couple of seasons? Arsenal also had a style of play and he identified the right players to bring in. We have none of those things under ten Hag.
So how long did we go without a specialist in a position?
I can only think of Left Back where didn't have one available for 5 games before Xmas and we've been without one for a longer period since Shaw's injury in mid february. We might have had a few games (4 I think) where Martial and Hojlund were unavailable.
That they were either out of their depth or the competition was stiffer? England at the moment and for the first time has the best squad arguably in the world.
Pretty sure we still do.
Everything seems to have gone very quiet, no major tweets or updates. I reckon we're just going to see an official announcement drop with little warning. 1 year contract extension or he's out and here's his replacement.
Is that why 80% of the fan base was Arteta out?
The style of play was completely different to now, Arteta played 5 at the back and the board backed him, unlike the United board.
I didnt see Arteta winning 2 trophies either in 2 seasons.
Of course not, why would any manager player 3 of the most promising youngsters in the league?
Ten Hags the only manager who wold play young players, no other managers do it. The new boss would probably transfer list all 3 of them them their first week in the job.
A squad means backup players in different positions.
Can you let me know who the backup to Hojlund is?
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22 PL games without a dedicated LB fit and starting for us. That includes having Reguillon , Malacia and Shaw in the squad at one point.
We’ve had 4 or more CBs injured: 6 times
3 CBs injured: 5 times
Both first choice (Varane + Martinez) simultaneously: 9 times (not including bench/not fully fit)
For CFs: 4 games with neither fit. (Not including partial fitness/bench)
Ah yes, a made-up statistic ascribed to an infamously irrational fan base. Classic.
Are you saying the board hasn't backed ten Hag?! Christ, that's entirely the fecking problem. They backed him too much if anything!
Arteta did win 2 trophies in 2 seasons, though..
3 for 3. Not bad.
Best take I got from this. The majority of fans wanted SAF out and the board didn’t listen and got it right. Curre right now the majority of United fans want ETH in. Hopefully the club don’t listen to us again.I think we’ll let McKenna show what he can do in the prem… then if ETH is poor next season he’ll be gone and we’ll get McKenna.
Don’t see us going for tuchel (would be ok for season then he seems to implode) and poch (who’s won feck all!!)
Don’t see us going for tuchel (would be ok for season then he seems to implode) and poch (who’s won feck all!!)
Martial
We have back-up players in every position. A squad actually means group of players you select a team from. We have 26-27 players for 11 starting places, ergo a squad.
I’m not saying you are, but are you one of those who think transition football means the same as low block counterattacking football? There seem to be quite a few thinking this.
Transition focus is the degree of focus on exploiting the advantages given when you win the ball back from the opposition, wether high or low. The advantage is due to the relative disorganization of the opponent at that point, so in away it’s fitting to call it chaos football. Klopp’s original rapid high press football is a form of this. Pep’s Barcelona was very focused on defensive transition (win ball back quickly) but not so much offensive transition (exploit imbalance by rapid attack) where he’s often prefer gradual progress by possession and overload. Ten Hag’s Ajax could be said to be a bit in between of those two. Both Pep and Klopp has made admissions towards each other during their time in the PL.
What players you have will be important in chosing strategy. If you have Rashford, Fernandes, Casemiro as your highest trumps, it makes more sense to exploit transitional imbalances rapidly than to focus more on possesion. Bruno and Casemiro class A is perfect for high agressive press as well, when you have Martinez and prime Varane at CB and Shaw as a joker. Mount and Højlund would strengthen such a plan. Remember as well that Ten Hag said early on that Martial was very good in his press and perfect for this football where there is space in the opponents defence. Injuries killed off 5/9 of that olan, and rapid inexplicable decline took 2/9ths more. We never got to see the reason behind that plan.
If United are going to switch heavily towards more possesion oriented football, it demands a hierarchy that will get in several top class players more suited to that football, and any manager leading that change, which historically Ten Hag is, will need time And trust to get that up and running.
Oh yes the friendly you count as a trophy
. I mean its a pre season friendly, 3 in 3? you mean the Emirates cup too?Again, a poster who doesnt understand the word backing.
Fit and starting? So this includes the games before Xmas where Reguilon was bit and in the squad but Ten Hag for whatever reason decided to play Dalot or Amrabat instead?
You do realise Martial isnt there anymore his contract has expired.
You do realize the seasons over yes?
And for what it's worth his contract doesn't expire until the end of June.
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I am not going to debate the fitness levels of individuals with you.
All I will say is a manger will pick the best players available that are fit and ready to make an impact Reguilón was likely only fit enough for the bench and not to start. Make of that what you will.
I’ve no interest in debating subjective approaches to considering this issue.
Yes and that frightens the shit out of me, because like I just said if you're conducting this huge decion making process and complete review of the club/players/coaching etc. over months then one FA cup result shouldn't sway any competent decision maker either way. If they were in agreeance that he's been fecked over by distractions and numerous injuries and that the season was an anomaly, then Ten Hag losing to City shouldn't all of the sudden get him sacked. Likewise, if they reviewed the entire body of work over 50+ games and came to the conclusion that he's failed and should bear huge responsibility for the results and performances of this year, then last Saturday shouldn't change that opinion. I said it before, but being swayed on a huge decision by a single result is madness. If Ortega claims the ball and Haalands shot goes in off the bar, all of the sudden he doesn't deserve to stay? It's not like the season was borderline where we just barely missed out on top 4.
If you look at it as a whole you either think that our previous structure fecked him along with injuries (I assume this is your own line of thought), or you think no matter those circumstances he did an extremely poor job regardless tactically and in his own decision making managing the side this year (my opinion). But there isn't really a middle ground to be in considering the on paper results for me. I think both yours and my own arguments have merit and are valid even if we disagree with each other, but I don't see an argument for "ehh I'm not sure lets see if he wins Saturday and make the decision based on that", because that seemingly ignores the total body of work that both you and I are taking into account. I can somewhat understand a passionate fan being in that camp I guess, because that's why fans are fans. But an executive decision maker that holds the fate of the club in their hands? I'd hope that person is able to look past singular outcomes when making long term decision.
Regardless of if you want Ten Hag sacked or not, this is a red flag for INEOS. They have had all this time to evaluate the manager.
They have been here for 6 months, watching games, watching training, speaking to players / staff and the like, yet they are incapable of making a decision.
Why does it have to be a review takes place after the FA cup final? this review should have been taking place well before the FA cup final.
One game V City cannot be the reason to keep him or sack him, it should be based on alot of other factors that they see as important.
Right that's what I'm saying. I was told during the takeover and after that INEOS would be revamping and modernising the club structure and decision making, but if reports are true and they are just now "reviewing" their first huge decision to make as new owners then it doesn't seem like they operate any differently than the Glazers structure. And if that's going to be the case then it might just be curtains for any sort of hope of getting back to the top for us.
Good post. I think possession football would be a tall order given the state of the squad we have now. I don’t understand why we didn’t play a more narrow shape given how easy it was for teams to breeze through the midfield though.
I feel like we may be taking Journalist briefs as bible, and I think they may just be giving information that's not inaccurate but perceived to be incompetent.
To me it feels like Wilcox began his audit many weeks ago, collating player sentiment, training methods, medical staff etc. Into account.
That review of course needs to be submitted and discussed but you can only naturally do that at the close of the season.
So they're likely debating it out now. The brief of Ten hag being certainly sacked stemmed from a London journo not normally privy to United exclusive scoop. It's more than likely he jumped the gun from agent info and didn't piece together the full story.
They are kicking the can down the road to create some space between the cup final win and the inevitable saying bye bye to ten hag.
As has been said by multiple people (and by me over a month ago) INEOS will not go into a new season with a manager with only a year left on his contract. It will create further instability with any signing or existing players questioning the direction of the club.
Given the season we've had they are not going to extend his contract.
Do not assume that just because we are not hearing things that stuff isn't happening behind the scenes. Most of the INEOS changes have been kept quiet (Berrada for example) until they wanted them.in the public domain.
I'm not surprised by them clearing non-football staff. I can well imagine that with Woodward and Arnold being from a non football background they probably focused recruitment on areas where they had expertise and so these depts probably became bloated.
What i do disagree with is voluntary redundancy. This typically means the most skilled people leave since they are confident of getting another job quickly and can take the payoff, leaving us with the guys who would not get a job elsewhere.
I believe I share the sentiment with most of my fellow fans, but I am really torn in here, between "ETH deserves to be sacked given the season we had" and "No current expressed or realistic replacements seems like an upgrade to ETH" ideas. I actually voted to sack him on this poll and for ETH as a manager choice for next season on some other thread
The manager market seems very weak and unexciting currently, as you notice from Bayern Kompany appointment or Arne Slot Liverpool appointment.
Given that the worst thing that can happen to the club is another "failed experiment"(and that's a realistic possibility looking at the available options), it seems that the least of the evils, in our case, is giving ETH another season (by a very very slim margin). No contract extension, just give a chance to ETH to prove himself next season.
On the other hand, lets try to build the club from top below, which should pave a way for a sustainable squad, hopefully reflected starting from this summer business , for any potential manager of the future.
The manager market seems very weak and unexciting currently, as you notice from Bayern Kompany appointment or Arne Slot Liverpool appointment.
Given that the worst thing that can happen to the club is another "failed experiment"(and that's a realistic possibility looking at the available options), it seems that the least of the evils, in our case, is giving ETH another season (by a very very slim margin). No contract extension, just give a chance to ETH to prove himself next season.
On the other hand, lets try to build the club from top below, which should pave a way for a sustainable squad, hopefully reflected starting from this summer business , for any potential manager of the future.
TalkSport lads are spot on really. We have no chance of winning the league with Ten Hag in charge, we can't even do the basics right. That's what it boils down to, we're not going anywhere by keeping him.
Guy using every bad argument in the book
I wonder what's his username on here.I really do not believe they are only conducting the review at this time. Brailsford has been close to the club since INEOS became official part owners. Wilcox has been on board for several weeks. My gut feel is that this is done and dusted, they are just waiting for a suitable time to announce their conclusion.
Also, Dalot can play left back.
I know it’s been parroted repeatedly but we simply wouldn’t have won two trophies if we couldn’t get the basics right. I’d argue the performances since Newcastle are examples of us going back to basics and doing it very well. If we keep him at this point we have no idea where we will end up, especially with the new structure. Regardless of the manager Ashworth, Wilcox and co could end up anywhere from genius to us all wanting to sack them within 12/24 months.
TalkSport lads are spot on really. We have no chance of winning the league with Ten Hag in charge, we can't even do the basics right. That's what it boils down to, we're not going anywhere by keeping him.
Bloody hell. This guy loves the sound of his own voice!
I imagine not.
If you look at Reguilons starts in the PL for us, he would start a game then be on the bench the next, then start the next 2-3 then on the bench again. So to say he was only fit enough for the bench is speculation. What we can say though is if he was on the bench he was available, certainly in games where he started the games before and after.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sergio-reguilon/leistungsdaten/spieler/282429
Sssh! We don't mention that.
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