Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[romufc]

What have any of the managers we've sacked done since leaving? Relatively feck all unless you count the conference league as a massive achievement. Sick of this argument.

Yeah the squad is a mess but the managers we've hired can't be absolved of blame on that basis. Mourinho was the only one who was good enough but he was a busted flush by the time we hired him.

I dont get what you are getting at. Managers are to blame correct, because the structure has not allowed the to flourish.

But its fine every United fan and rival will use the same old argument "But the managers were backed, spent £500m". Why do we need Sporting directors, technical directors and the like when its the manager who spends the money? None of the managers got backed.

Yes, you may use the lazy argument, but but they spent £80m on Maguire, £80m on Antony. Well its not the managers job, it shouldn't be.

Every other top club, is able to sell players, apart from Manutd. City sell Palmer for £40m, Jesus, Sterling for £50. Liverpool, even a fresh Chelsea board managed to get rid of players to Saudi.

Jose rightly or wrongly wanted Martial, Shaw gone, but wasn't allowed.

Ten Hag wanted Maguire, McTominay gone but wasn't allowed.

So you dont give the manager the right tools to succeed then blame the manager for not doing well.

What do you mean Jose was the only good one? LVG just got to the WC final before we got him, Ten Hag rebuilt Ajax twice, season before went unbeaten in his CL group stages, why are you acting as if Ten Hag was not a good manager.. I mean alot of the cafe at the point was like... why would Ten Hag join us, we are shit.

 

[El Jefe]

What are you suggesting here ?
That we should give managers even less time than we have ?

Nobody post Saf has had 3 seasons .


The top 3 teams in the league all have managers that have been there longer than 3 years .

I know what you are going to say , you can't compare ETH to klopp or pep or something along those lines . You might get away with that if it wasn't for Arteta being one of the 3 .

Don't tell me , I know , you could always tell that Arteta was special .

You know I’m going to say it because it’s the bloody truth. They were already two of the top 3 managers before joining.

Bringing Arteta into the debate he improved Arsenal in every full season he had there. 8th to 5th to 2nd with considerable jumps in points per game in the PL.

EtH nosedived this season not just in points but in performance too and that’s the number one reason he has no business being linked with the top 3 in the league. By the first two seasons they had already figured out how they wanted to play and successfully implemented it in the team. We’re still asking questions on what type of team we are.

My point is Chelsea have sacked Conte and Tuchel, Arsenal sacked Emery, Spurs sacked Conte and Mourinho quicker or in about the same time EtH has been here. All better managers than him and all those teams finished in better spots in the league than we did.

If I extend it to European teams I can add Nagelsmann and Flick.

What I’m saying is better managers have been sacked with less or similar time and those clubs have recovered or moved on. Only here is it seen as taboo to do something that is fairly standard across top clubs especially with the terrible output from ETH this season.

 

[quadrant]

By sheer statistical chance well of course your chances of winning would increase because it’s a cup competition not a league. That’s just stating the obvious.

Not that obvious apparently.

And you absolutely can use previous winners as an indictment. I mean ffs do you think a footballer becomes a footballer to simply “play in the champions league”. You don’t think these lesser players don’t dream of a cup final at Wembley or better yet winning it. How many times have we seen lower league teams have an absolute ball after knocking out a higher league oppponent. That’s because of the desire to progress in a cup competition, play big teams, get the prize money, get a day out at Wembley. Incentive has always been there and still they haven’t been able to win it with any regularity. Adding a cl spot would make feck all difference. It would literally only make all of the big 6 take it extra seriously and not rest players as much and that’s about it.

If your starting point is that the FA Cup is as prestigious & valued as its ever been, then sure, there's no need to change it. From my perspective, the value of the FA Cup has been on the slide for well over a decade.

And your point was actually that the big six would be against it because it would open it up for smaller clubs. A nonsense really because as we’ve seen with the super league/Cl expansion, they are desperate for more Cl spaces.

Do I need to point out what a flawed argument this is? Having more places makes it more likely for big teams to get in the CL. Putting one place behind a knockout competition doesn't. So those two things are not the same.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

The waffle in here about giving him time is absolutely pathetic and doesn't reflect the reality of the Premier league.

The EPL is highly highly competitive and the tiny margins matter. If you stay still your rivals all over take you.


Have a look at where we finished in the CL and EPL this season for your proof, it just about worked first season, second season disaster, third season well finish even lower.


Some people don't like the idea of changing manager because it's uncertainty but the PL nothing is certain.

Why are we going to faff about with long term projects as city win another title or Liverpool do or villa and Chelsea over take us?

Sticking with the manager has landed us in 8th yet Chelsea who have had more managers than hot dinners finish ahead of us.

It's imperical and evident that the current regime is FAILING and should be removed.

What you have all wished for will bite us in the arse in the ling run.

Keep ETH now makes it easier to get Southgate later (he'll be free post euros and INEOS will look for ANY excuse to make the move).

Big brain moves.

 

[Freak]

The waffle in here about giving him time is absolutely pathetic and doesn't reflect the reality of the Premier league.

The EPL is highly highly competitive and the tiny margins matter. If you stay still your rivals all over take you.


Have a look at where we finished in the CL and EPL this season for your proof, it just about worked first season, second season disaster, third season well finish even lower.


Some people don't like the idea of changing manager because it's uncertainty but the PL nothing is certain.

Why are we going to faff about with long term projects as city win another title or Liverpool do or villa and Chelsea over take us?

Sticking with the manager has landed us in 8th yet Chelsea who have had more managers than hot dinners finish ahead of us.

It's imperical and evident that the current regime is FAILING and should be removed.

What you have all wished for will bite us in the arse in the ling run.

Keep ETH now makes it easier to get Southgate later (he'll be free post euros and INEOS will look for ANY excuse to make the move).

Big brain moves.

Why are you so worked up over this? You were so confident he was going to be sacked a couple of days back. What happened?

 

[DJ_21]

The biggest reason for people wanting him out is because our style of play has been awful. I highly doubt we’ll be playing the same next season, managers evolve and change their tactics and we’ll look a lot stronger next season with players hopefully fit so that will automatically make our football a lot better. If ETH can win 2 trophies with not even a decent team or by not playing so well then imagine what we could do with him when we’re finally clicking. People bring up that Ange got spurs playing a style straight away, ok but maybe because he has the players for that and he signed the CORRECT players for that style, he might be good at picking out transfers where ETH clearly isn’t. ETH went for the easy way and tried getting players he’s worked with before, we’re already fixing one problem and that’s not allowing ETH to have full control of transfers anymore. We won’t be going nowhere if we turn into one of these clubs like Chelsea who change manager every season. 2 trophies in 2 years is decent, I’m 100% sure that next season even if ETH is still here that we’ll be better, we’ll have new signings, fitter players hopefully. We’ve just beat city with 2 half fit CBs. I’d rather we kept ETH than get any of the managers that’s been mentioned. No point starting again when we can try and get back on track next year and keep up his trophy a season record.

 

[Judas]

Why are you so worked up over this? You were so confident he was going to be sacked a couple of days back. What happened?

It's quite the contrast isn't it. From ITK confidence, to ranting and raving.

 

[Superunknown]

The biggest reason for people wanting him out is because our style of play has been awful. I highly doubt we’ll be playing the same next season, managers evolve and change their tactics and we’ll look a lot stronger next season with players hopefully fit so that will automatically make our football a lot better. If ETH can win 2 trophies with not even a decent team or by not playing so well then imagine what we could do with him when we’re finally clicking. People bring up that Ange got spurs playing a style straight away, ok but maybe because he has the players for that and he signed the CORRECT players for that style, he might be good at picking out transfers where ETH clearly isn’t. ETH went for the easy way and tried getting players he’s worked with before, we’re already fixing one problem and that’s not allowing ETH to have full control of transfers anymore. We won’t be going nowhere if we turn into one of these clubs like Chelsea who change manager every season. 2 trophies in 2 years is decent, I’m 100% sure that next season even if ETH is still here that we’ll be better, we’ll have new signings, fitter players hopefully. We’ve just beat city with 2 half fit CBs. I’d rather we kept ETH than get any of the managers that’s been mentioned. No point starting again when we can try and get back on track next year and keep up his trophy a season record.

There's a lot of sense with what you say. A concern that I have is with injuries, but it's hard to tell exactly if that's down to our individual players, bad luck, poor training routines, poor systems put in place by ETH, or a combination of various factors. Not being able to choose from the same players every week and having consistent problems with injuries has hindered us, so a major factor if ETH does stay is what is going to change in this area. I've got to admit that I'm struggling to see an obvious replacement, or another manager/name that excites me.

 

[git_united]

Wow! So more people want to keep Ten Hag now than sack him? I don’t understand this at all. What if we had lost the final? What if we lose the first two games of the season? This is the right moment to get a new manager in to give him a full pre-season. Not during the season when things go wrong again. And things will go wrong because the mistakes Ten Hag made during this terrible season will come back, undoubtedly.

I made this point in another thread, but it would be helpful if possible to see the total and vote breakdown before the match. There were less than a 1000 votes then, I think, which suggests an 80-20 ratio in favor of EtH in the new votes could have produced the results we now see, even without anyone changing their votes.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The biggest reason for people wanting him out is because our style of play has been awful. I highly doubt we’ll be playing the same next season, managers evolve and change their tactics and we’ll look a lot stronger next season with players hopefully fit so that will automatically make our football a lot better. If ETH can win 2 trophies with not even a decent team or by not playing so well then imagine what we could do with him when we’re finally clicking. People bring up that Ange got spurs playing a style straight away, ok but maybe because he has the players for that and he signed the CORRECT players for that style, he might be good at picking out transfers where ETH clearly isn’t. ETH went for the easy way and tried getting players he’s worked with before, we’re already fixing one problem and that’s not allowing ETH to have full control of transfers anymore. We won’t be going nowhere if we turn into one of these clubs like Chelsea who change manager every season. 2 trophies in 2 years is decent, I’m 100% sure that next season even if ETH is still here that we’ll be better, we’ll have new signings, fitter players hopefully. We’ve just beat city with 2 half fit CBs. I’d rather we kept ETH than get any of the managers that’s been mentioned. No point starting again when we can try and get back on track next year and keep up his trophy a season record.

There’s no reason to believe he will change style next season. He’s said it himself, we will never play like Ajax and he wants us to be the best transitional team, hence the chaotic football and treating the ball like hot potato

 

[DJ_21]

There's a lot of sense with what you say. A concern that I have is with injuries, but it's hard to tell exactly if that's down to our individual players, bad luck, poor training routines, poor systems put in place by ETH, or a combination of various factors. Not being able to choose from the same players every week and having consistent problems with injuries has hindered us, so a major factor if ETH does stay is what is going to change in this area. I've got to admit that I'm struggling to see an obvious replacement, or another manager/name that excites me.

Ye that is a major issue we have. I’d imagine him trying to work the players hard in training. Just like pep will with his players… a few former players have been saying Steve McClaren is a very good coach but how much coaching he actually does or is allowed to do remains to be seen. I remember one guy can’t remember who it was saying that he doesn’t think McClaren trains them as they’d be much better. We could do with getting better fitness coaches, think we’ve been out ran in most games we’ve played.

 

[DJ_21]

There’s no reason to believe he will change style next season. He’s said it himself, we will never play like Ajax and he wants us to be the best transitional team, hence the chaotic football and treating the ball like hot potato

He said we can’t play like Ajax because apparently you need FDJ to do so which is who he chased all summer in his first window. And he doesn’t get to chose what style he plays anymore, if he stays then he has to coach the style that Wilcox, Ashworth etc want.

 

[romufc]

There’s no reason to believe he will change style next season. He’s said it himself, we will never play like Ajax and he wants us to be the best transitional team, hence the chaotic football and treating the ball like hot potato

Did he say chaotic?

Why is there no reason? There is actually evidence from the past that Ten Hag has the ability to change tactics. Go check his tactics in the 18/19 campaign where he played false 9 then lost half his team and in the 20/21 campaign was different tactics as he had Haller up top.

Clearly he can change.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He said we can’t play like Ajax because apparently you need FDJ to do so which is who he chased all summer in his first window. And he doesn’t get to chose what style he plays anymore, if he stays then he has to coach the style that Wilcox, Ashworth etc want.

Did he say chaotic?

Why is there no reason? There is actually evidence from the past that Ten Hag has the ability to change tactics. Go check his tactics in the 18/19 campaign where he played false 9 then lost half his team and in the 20/21 campaign was different tactics as he had Haller up top.

Clearly he can change.

These are his words. He’s obviously changed course with his play style from Ajax which is clear with the chaotic ball we’ve watched for majority of the season.

I wouldn’t mind him staying if he decides to play more possession football, the reason we got him in the first place. His Ajax style is still the best out of all these managers we’ve been linked with

 

[Lash]

You are correct in that the Garnacho chance on goal was as glorious a chance as it could possibly be. Open net and the keeper literally five yards behind, there was zero chance that even Garnacho’s dead great grandma would have missed that shot.

As for replicating these tactics against every other opponent in the PL, there’s no chance in a million years that Ipswich and Wolves will come to Old Trafford and we’ll let them have 70% possession and we’ll hit them on counters.

But we had other chances as well. Garnacho had a very good shot on target before we even scored. You can say that Doku's goal was an extremely low quality chance, does that negate it from being a goal?

The tactics don't require an opposing team to have 70% possession, that is just how City are. Teams won't just sit in their box against us, that's not really how any team plays in the prem. They may have a mid block and the same patterns can be used to attack, which required width and shifting the ball quickly to create overloads.

 

[JonIrenicus]

I wouldn’t mind him staying if he decides to play more possession football, the reason we got him in the first place. His Ajax style is still the best out of all these managers we’ve been linked with

He obviously got spooked after the trashing of the first 2 games last season. He can't play his Ajax football side here, we don't have the players for that yet. Bruno, as much as I love him, he's not fit for that sort of style.

 

[romufc]

These are his words. He’s obviously changed course with his play style from Ajax which is clear with the chaotic ball we’ve watched for majority of the season.

I wouldn’t mind him staying if he decides to play more possession football, the reason we got him in the first place. His Ajax style is still the best out of all these managers we’ve been linked with

Didn't realise if you go direct its called chaotic football.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/...me here with my,emphasise more on going direct.

The quote also says..
"“I can't play like Ajax because I have different players,” he said. “I came here with my philosophy, based on possession, but I wanted to combine it with the DNA of Manchester United, the players and their characters."

Clearly he wants to play that football, just look at the players he wanted / signed, Onana, Licha, Eriksen, FDJ, Pavard..

We have to realise this squad is built on counter attacking football.

 

[FortunaUtd]

@JPRouve counter attacking and transition football aren’t the same thing.

Maybe you could email Ten Hag the definition because he sure seems to be confused about it too.

 

[quadrant]

These are his words. He’s obviously changed course with his play style from Ajax which is clear with the chaotic ball we’ve watched for majority of the season.

I wouldn’t mind him staying if he decides to play more possession football, the reason we got him in the first place. His Ajax style is still the best out of all these managers we’ve been linked with

I think the key quote here is the second one "What fits this team is transition, both ways". We have a real mish-mash of a squad, and expecting us to play a possession game camped largely in the opposition third is a misreading of the strengths of the team. Of course you could argue that transitional football hasnt worked either, which would be fair comment. But I understand his rationale.

 

[DJ_21]

These are his words. He’s obviously changed course with his play style from Ajax which is clear with the chaotic ball we’ve watched for majority of the season.

I wouldn’t mind him staying if he decides to play more possession football, the reason we got him in the first place. His Ajax style is still the best out of all these managers we’ve been linked with

That was 2023. You not watched his recent interviews, maybe this years? The one with Neville where he said he needed a FDJ type signing. We don’t know what the owners want but I’m pretty sure they’ll want us playing similar to Arsenal and City so if they decide to keep him then thats what they’ll ask from him.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Didn't realise if you go direct its called chaotic football.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3859949#:~:text=“I came here with my,emphasise more on going direct.

The quote also says..
"“I can't play like Ajax because I have different players,” he said. “I came here with my philosophy, based on possession, but I wanted to combine it with the DNA of Manchester United, the players and their characters."

Clearly he wants to play that football, just look at the players he wanted / signed, Onana, Licha, Eriksen, FDJ, Pavard..

We have to realise this squad is built on counter attacking football.

That’s what I’ll call what I’ve watched for majority of the season.

He also signed Mount and Casemiro. You don’t plan on playing possession football with a midfield 3 of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

That was 2023. You not watched his recent interviews, maybe this years? The one with Neville where he said he needed a FDJ type signing. We don’t know what the owners want but I’m pretty sure they’ll want us playing similar to Arsenal and City so if they decide to keep him then thats what they’ll ask from him.

Like I’ve said already, if this is the plan then I don’t mind seeing how next season goes with him

 

[romufc]

That’s what I’ll call what I’ve watched for majority of the season.

He also signed Mount and Casemiro. You don’t plan on playing possession football with a midfield 3 of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro

So you know what his plan was ?

We have had a bad season, I wouldn't even call it chaotic, it was just a mess. That is clearly not his end goal.

Its funny you seem to think exactly how he wanted to play but it seems you decide on paper what his midfield was.

I would recommend next time to see what he does too. He played almost all pre season with Mainoo which gave a clear indication he wanted him to start. He got injured and that changed, soon as he was fit Mainoo was in.

But ofcourse that doesnt suit your agenda.

 

[Redstain]

INEOS need to come to a definitive decision, it shouldn't take an entire half of the season for them to have an iffy process in making critical choices.

Either they are behind the manager or they feel he's inadequate for the project they are trying to build.

If there's truth to Wilcox telling the manager how the team ought to play football, its also a decisive indicator that they will hire someone else which would explain delays waiting for the dust to settle.

 

[FortunaUtd]

That was 2023. You not watched his recent interviews, maybe this years? The one with Neville where he said he needed a FDJ type signing. We don’t know what the owners want but I’m pretty sure they’ll want us playing similar to Arsenal and City so if they decide to keep him then thats what they’ll ask from him.

Like I’ve said already, if this is the plan then I don’t mind seeing how next season goes with him

So the "process" has been to stubbornly implement a fundamentally different football for more than a year than the football that will be asked of him or that he is aiming for? Great stuff.

By the way, if the owners will want a different playing style, they will hire a different manager and that is what they will do.

 

[Mike Smalling]

INEOS need to come to a definitive decision, it shouldn't take an entire half of the season for them to have an iffy process in making critical choices.

Either they are behind the manager or they feel he's inadequate for the project they are trying to build.

Yeah, I don't really see how this process can take long. Besides the FA Cup final everything had already happened this season. One would think they started evaluating the day they took over.

Another aspect is that I feel we owe it to ETH to reach a decision quickly, so if we do fire him he can have talks with other clubs and potentially have a full season with a new team. For all his faults he has delivered us two trophies, brought through some exciting youth players and is clearly fond of the club. Can't string him along for weeks like this.

 

[DJ_21]

So the "process" has been to stubbornly implement a fundamentally different football for more than a year than the football that will be asked of him or that he is aiming for? Great stuff.

By the way, if the owners will want a different playing style, they will hire a different manager and that is what they will do.

Or they’ll tell the current manager what style they want to play? They already know ETH preferred style and it’s the one he had at Ajax. You can’t say the one he played last year is what he wants. We don’t have as many technically good players as Ajax did. Pochettino etc will all want to play possession football as does ETH. So changing the manager won’t change the style of play. If you listened to what Ratcliffe said when he came in, he said they’ll choose the style and the manager/head coach then has to implement it. The days of getting managers that play a complete different style of play are long gone, so we won’t jump from a possession based manager to someone like Conte/Mourinho anymore.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

So you know what his plan was ?

We have had a bad season, I wouldn't even call it chaotic, it was just a mess. That is clearly not his end goal.

Its funny you seem to think exactly how he wanted to play but it seems you decide on paper what his midfield was.

I would recommend next time to see what he does too. He played almost all pre season with Mainoo which gave a clear indication he wanted him to start. He got injured and that changed, soon as he was fit Mainoo was in.

But ofcourse that doesnt suit your agenda.

Are you saying Ten Hag was planning to bench arguably our best player of 2023 and 70m signing in Casemiro for Mainoo? Or bench the number 1 signing of the window, bought for 50m with one year left for Mainoo? Or bench his captain Bruno for Mainoo?

It’s easy to say Mainoo was going to start ahead of these players with how he’s played this season though. But there’s barely any reason to think of that except hindsight bias

 

[romufc]

Are you saying Ten Hag was planning to bench arguably our best player of 2023 and 70m signing in Casemiro for Mainoo? Or bench the number 1 signing of the window, bought for 50m with one year left for Mainoo? Or bench his captain Bruno for Mainoo?

It’s easy to say Mainoo was going to start ahead of these players with how he’s played this season though. But there’s barely any reason to think of that except hindsight bias

I dont know because I dont have access to Ten Hag, you clearly do.

What I know from evidence, is that Mainoo was due to start the season in midfield. Again you are mistaken, I am not basing that from how Mainoo has played this season based on Hindsight.

Mainoo starting most pre season games, is evidence not hindsight, clear evidence that he was first choice, he started the games against Arsenal and Real Madrid where he got injured.

Just because I took notice what went on during pre season and you didnt, dont come here saying its hindsight based on how the season went, there was clear evidence from pre season that Mainoo was going to start in midfield.

 

[Overhaul FC]

What about playing style? Is Ten Hag going to change to what INEOS want?

What if INEOS say need to be more possession based/control matches cant see Ten Hag changing to suit INEOS.

He has been trying to implement a style of football lastc24 months and not working.
We can't score or defend. Evidence is there from this season.

What do INEOS know about a playing style? Ten Hag has a better track record than a newly put together organisation for the short term. I think the next season makes sense to keep it as it is whilst they work together with the manager. That's just my opinion.

I can't see INEOS telling Poch/Tuchel/McKenna how to play anymore than they could Ten Hag.

Which sausage would take the job if everything was prescriptive to that extent?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I dont know because I dont have access to Ten Hag, you clearly do.

What I know from evidence, is that Mainoo was due to start the season in midfield.

Which is it mate?

Anyways, Saying I have an agenda because i said Casemiro Mount and Bruno was the planned midfield 3 over an 18 year old (albeit very talented) with barely any top football experience is bonkers. And btw, during the time Mainoo featured in preseason, both Eriksen and Casemiro were unavailable because of international duties. Even Rashford didn’t play until the second half of the Arsenal game

 

[romufc]

Which is it mate?

Anyways, Saying I have an agenda because i said Casemiro Mount and Bruno was the planned midfield 3 over an 18 year old (albeit very talented) with barely any top football experience is bonkers. And btw, during the time Mainoo featured in preseason, both Eriksen and Casemiro were unavailable because of international duties. Even Rashford didn’t play until the second half of the Arsenal game

I mean I dont know what he wanted to do with Mount.. he was't really playing much was he?

Again, I will refer you back to the the pre season where Casemiro and Mainoo started the Real Madrid game. I mean its clear to anyone who watches pre season that he was in line to start the season, what also backs it up is as soon as Mainoo was fit, he was straight into the 1st 11 Everton away.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Why are you so worked up over this? You were so confident he was going to be sacked a couple of days back. What happened?

Things changed such is life

 

[croadyman]

Things changed such is life

The minute you mentioned Southgate I worried

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Not that obvious apparently.



If your starting point is that the FA Cup is as prestigious & valued as its ever been, then sure, there's no need to change it. From my perspective, the value of the FA Cup has been on the slide for well over a decade.

Not all Fa Cups are created equal though. Beating Liverpool and City on the way to a win is no mean feat. It’s not as though we had an easy one.

 

[Plant0x84]

Things changed such is life

That’s what @choccy said

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, I don't really see how this process can take long. Besides the FA Cup final everything had already happened this season. One would think they started evaluating the day they took over.

Another aspect is that I feel we owe it to ETH to reach a decision quickly, so if we do fire him he can have talks with other clubs and potentially have a full season with a new team. For all his faults he has delivered us two trophies, brought through some exciting youth players and is clearly fond of the club. Can't string him along for weeks like this.

Yeah they do owe it to him not to drag this out for a few weeks and leave the guy in limbo, unfortunately my gut feeling is that's exactly what will be happening

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I mean I dont know what he wanted to do with Mount.. he was't really playing much was he?

Again, I will refer you back to the the pre season where Casemiro and Mainoo started the Real Madrid game. I mean its clear to anyone who watches pre season that he was in line to start the season, what also backs it up is as soon as Mainoo was fit, he was straight into the 1st 11 Everton away.

No. When he was fit, he was on the bench against Luton town, the game before Everton and after that he basically rotated with Amrabat until he staked his claim to the first 11. Again, there’s no clear reason to think ETH would have thrown him into the starting 11, especially when Casemiro was coming off a good season and Mount was his number 1 target. We will agree to disagree. I’m just going to keep going back in cirlces

 

[romufc]

No. When he was fit, he was on the bench against Luton town, the game before Everton and after that he basically rotated with Amrabat until he staked his claim to the first 11. Again, there’s no clear reason to think ETH would have thrown him into the starting 11, especially when Casemiro was coming off a good season and Mount was his number 1 target. We will agree to disagree. I’m just going to keep going back in cirlces

There is clear evidence. Pre season for 1 is evidence.

The season for second is also evidence.

When Mainoo was fit he starts games, when Mount is fit he didnt start games.

Its quite simple actually.

 

[dwd]

Why are you so worked up over this? You were so confident he was going to be sacked a couple of days back. What happened?

Sweating because he put his neck on the line