I think this is going to drag on. Replacements we've identified don't seem to be in danger of going anywhere so no apparent need for a decision any time soon.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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When Ten Hag came the global scouts were sacked and contract negotiator was sacked after too. I think we had will keanes brother rock in and negotiate deals for us. We also had a fresh new CEO and DoF who had no experience in those remit go on to make some fools out of themselves.
No way near 1986 agreed. But the biggest mess structurally we've had since, arguably so.
As a football fan you are supposed to get attached to your team.
Yes, so are you saying sacking Ten Hag will get us closer to winning the PL title, if so, I am 100% Ten Hag out. So who do you think should take over btw?
Again you are re-enforcing my point. Thank you for that.
When Di Matteo won the CL, I would advice you to get your facts right and go check because he was given a contract and was allowed to start the next season. He started the season until November where he lost 3-0 to Juve then got sacked.
I guarantee you, if Ten Hag gets the next season and is 5th 6th, he would be sacked by November too.
Key-word being team there.
The team is more important than the manager. We don't have SAF as the manager anymore.
Well Simon Jordan still not impressed with ETH after a cup win. Basically if we are happy with being a cup team then fair enough, but we should be better than that.
Only you are comparing Ten Hag to SAF.
We are only saying the club was in a mess in both scenarios. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think the poll needs to be reset. This is an old poll and some people wouldn't have bothered to change their vote. This is not the true reflection of folk's thinking post the FA cup.
Hard to argue against it being the biggest mess of PL times. First time ever we've seen Glazer dilution and heaps of changes going on in the background, club was stupid enough to buy Ronaldo and so we had that fallout. Name a more public issue than that where a player of that pedigree is calling the club shit? Greenwood is ongoing, Antony then was suspended. We've also just had the worst spate of injuries in recent memory. Almost all of the senior management are gone, the manager's role has completely changed, we're changing how we structure contracts and PSR has suddenly decided to start punishing clubs. We've been in flux since the Glazers started the sale process.
I agree with you, this season has been rubbish.
There are alot of things Ten Hag is at fault for, Antony, Mount, Malacia, Eriksen, not being more compact, persisting with Rashford.
However; how many managers despite that win 2 trophies in 2 seasons?
What I fear is we get rid get another manager and the same thing happens, most on here would say, Ten Hag should have got more time.
Look at the history, no manager since SAF has managed to imprint a style of play at this club.
No, I didn't. You chimed in(after the other poster brought up SAF having a negative GD in 1 league season) saying they both dealt with a similar mess which again is patently untrue.
They have won one trophy in a decade, and finished 19 points behind Inter this season. A Inter side that has changed their manager twice in the 5 years since Pioli was appointed and have won 7 trophies since he was hired by AC Milan - including two league titles. Not sure how this is proving your point.
I did not compare managerial pedigree and I did not say both messes were similar in scale.
I said both came into a big mess. The mess the club was in post Ole was the biggest mess since that season SAF had.
Do you really think ETH has shown anything in 2 seasons here that he can get us challenging for league titles? Do you even think he's shown the ability to construct a team that can dominate the opposition consistently?
As for the bolded: I am aware of this and even said it. He won the CL and was sacked a few months later. I didn't think I needed to explicitly state it was the following season.
As for the 2nd bolded: I am not sure he would get sacked if he was sitting in 5th/6th in November.
Ten Hag has 2 trophies in 2 seasons.
Do we really need to poll every other day? We know a lot of people changed their mind after the cup win.
Don't see how it's worse than 2014 to be honest.
Why are you selectively quoting my post? Over Klopp's tenure, Liverpool have been bad, have been riddled with injuries, but the team has always looked well coached. They never resorted to relegation fodder football like we've done this year.
You are making a strawman argument that we want to get rid off EtH for not challenging for the league title, we want him out because he hasn't improved any of the players, our team hasn't looked well coached or well drilled.
Yes, the last 10-12 years. Chelsea have two PL and one CL with 7 permanent managers in the past 10 years, they haven't challenged since 2016 but that's not the point of thee conversation, the point was about club that are successful while sacking regularly managers that applies to Chelsea in the past 10-12 years.
But I don't really get your answer here because you tell me that it's about the last 10-12 years but decided to ignore the 10-12 years and instead try to downplay these clubs successes. Have these clubs been successful while sacking managers regularly and as an example how did Milan end up with Pioli? 7 managers in 10 years.
Well, seems like people's minds have changed dramatically since the FA cup win. I would like to see what %age actually want to keep him now. Not that it matters, but then nothing on any discussion forum actually matters.
It's up to the mods.
And? What does that have to do with your argument that giving managers time will result in more success? If anything it contradicts it. We sacked Ole after 3 seasons and ended up with 2 trophies in two years. I would love for Ten Hag to be a long term success, should INEOS decide to stick with him, but it would be folly to set the club up in a way that does not account for the reality that very few managers can be successful for extended periods of time.
There is always mitigating circumstances, yes people say its excuses but having the worst ever injury record is something.
Yes, I believe Ten Hag given his players can get us challenging. When the club decide to back him, he can actually do well, I believe.
People will now bring up his spending, which is fine. I agree he has made mistakes in Antony and the like but lets be serious, he wanted Maguire, McTominay, AWB all gone, replaced by players that can play his style.
We played our best football with Martial in our team, that was 6 months only. Since then he has had Weghorst, championship ST and Hojlund, a 20 year old.
I am no professional manager but I know also when you cant have a consistent team selection it is difficult to build. We have 2 loan midfielders, how can you build on it?
He started last pre season with no ST, Mainoo as his midfield and then he is injured for 1/2 a season along with Casemiro, Mount.
Again, Di Matteo got to start the season, which is what I believe should happen with Ten Hag.
Can I ask you, when Liverpool had terrible injuries in their CB area, did they win a trophy? No.
I would say, Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo are all improved but if you say they are rubbish then thats fine.
A team that is not drilled or coached at all won the FA cup against a team that doesnt lose at this stage, against a manager that had never lost a domestic cup final. But ofcourse Ten Hag cant coach.
Can you also point out when was the last time Liverpool / City had the same number of injuries as us?
Simon Jordan, the voice of reason.
That is the point no one seems to get. In two years, we haven't shown any progress in our football. It's not like Klopp or Pep who had nailed the style of play but needed to add better players to achieve success. We'd be basically starting next season from scratch.Then why not start it with someone who we believe can implement a style of play and lead us to bigger trophies, then with someone who has failed to implement a style of play for two seasons in a row.
Antony, Amrabat, Weghorst, Mount, Eriksen as a CM. All almost equally deeply poor judgements for a manager you believe can one day take us to a league title. Not to mention continuing to play Antony when Diallo became available. Letting go of Ronaldo and bringing in a 20 year old CF and relying Martial who's never available. These are all deeply poor judgements.
Nice way to handpick parts of sentences to suit your arguments. A very few know what really went on back then, also extremely hard to compare different eras due to lack of information, stats and recency bias, but the one guy that could have made the decision said he wouldn't be sacked regardless of what happened in that game at City Ground, instead pointing and him removing the drinking culture and totally revamping the youth and scout system as the response for him being the right man regardless of lack of success. Could be face-saving in hindsight of course, but we'll never know. But if it's just so easy to just give someone a few years, why aren't a SAF a dime a dozen? And what separate ETH from our other failed managers post SAF, which sackings pretty much everyone supported?
FA Cup is still nice to win but at the end of the day the competition is still very much secondary to the CL and obviously the league, which is our bread and butter, in 2024. We couldn't be further away in the Premier League era.
I said hovering above relegation standard and final league position is not an underlying metric. It's oviously the most important one, but the underlying ones points to even an 8th place finish being overachieving. 15th place in expected points, 16th in expected goals, 19th in shots conceded etc. A decent CL campaign could have glossed over that but instead it made the optics somehow even worse.
Stats obviously doesn't tell the whole story, but it's pretty much supported with what we have witnessed this season. Those are major flags that needs addressing and considering how stubborn he has been regardless of players he has had available (full strength against Wolves at home or facing similarly affected teams like Brentford and Newcastle) doesn't actually points to a guy who understands that our issues isn't solely related to injuries and is good at using what he has available (unlike SAF). There have been signs though the final few matches (ignoring first half against Brighton), and the cup final showed pragmatism (even though I hate back-against-the-wall tactics for an entire half), which is what I will cling my hope to if he is to stay. A glimmer of hope I might add.
As for the bolded part, that is clearly you arguing in bad faith and not worth responding to.
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Well, this clearly highlights the problem at the club. The same manager, that you believe cant challenge for a title, with a better board, who gave him players, took Ajax to league titles, unbeaten in CL group stages and playing some possession based football against the very best.
Ofcourse you will discount anything else he has done.
I know.
Don't think he has been convinced by him from the minute he joined us. I will support whatever decision the board make. If they keep ETH they need to make sure they build a good squad for him and lets hope we do not get the number of injuries we have had this season.I'm not, I've given him credit for the FA Cup triumph and I don't believe he's a terrible manager. I also don't believe he's the manager to take United forward based on how this season was handled tactically, his judgements when it comes to talent, and how it all played out under his watch basically. He said himself that it was a total mess after beating City on Saturday so it's not just coming from the likes of myself. He knows the season has been a disaster.
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This is the argument that I'm not getting from those who want to keep ETH. Almost feels like a half-hearted support.
Hopefully its not the way ineos see it if they keep him. Either go all out to support him or just replace him now.
I think he’s staying.
Winning domestic cups doesn't mean shit if you want to succeed long term. Plenty of crap teams have won few cups here and there. Arsenal have won a couple of FA cups but that hardly led to any domination.
Plenty of really good teams draw a blank or lose to lesser teams every year, especially in domestic cups. This happens across leagues. Just because we managed to pull off a win against City doesn't mean EtH has coached our team very well. It's just a one off game. We lost comprehensively to them twice over the season.
IMO Dalot is rubbish. But that's my personal opinion. What about Mount, Onana, Antony, Casemiro, AwB? Why have they all regressed? Why a multiple time CL winner Casemiro looked absolutely rubbish at times?
We were also playing players out of position to cover, thus being weaker in those positions AND the ones they usually play. We were stretched all over the pitch.
On that particular point against the very best Ajax mainly played counter attacking Football or had a fairly balanced approach.
The review has only just wrapped up analysis of the opening game versus Wolves. They think it was a penalty on Onana.
Ok if you say so, they had less possession against most teams.
If you can use the last 12 years as a breaking point, Chelsea has won 2 CL, one league title, 2 FA cup, 2 EL and one LC. Despite sacking managers regularly. They also hit some very low points in this period so their model obviously aren't the truth either when it comes to sustainable success (only City can claim that).
Real sacked a manager immediately after winning their first CL in decades, made a couple of wrong hirings before they found a guy 1,5 year later that won them 2 CL and two league titles in four years, before pretty much sack him also. I recent times they also fecked up the succession plan to Zidane leaving before they eventually struck gold again a few years later. Even a cup or league trophy doesn't guarentee you time and they are the most successful club in both history and the last 10-12 years.
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I will be honest, it feels like half hearted support because that is what it is, I wont forget the season, how bad it has been.
The problem is, I will feel half hearted with any other manager coming in, because all the names mentioned are below par really.
To be clear, unlike many I see it as a positive. I have issues with his management this season and have long term doubts but I believe that he is a good and versatile head coach when he does have his head stuck in the sand. Now the reason I do want to point out his tactical approaches is because many are making things up when it comes to his preferred style.
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