Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[redIndianDevil]

Isn't that exactly what saved SAF from the sack?

Martinez won a cup but also got Wigan relegated. Di Matteo won a cup as well with Chelsea.

Just because SAF happened, doesn't make all cup winning managers serial winners. There are plenty of crap managers who have won trophies over the years.

 

[Westerkerk]

Funny how The Guardian broke the news that he *will* be sacked, done deal, but now their language has changed in the article about De Zerbi saying "likely" to be sacked

Backtracking on their ill informed story, or just pre-empting a change in the decision that was leaked to them?

 

[The Boy]

Martinez won a cup but also got Wigan relegated. Di Matteo won a cup as well with Chelsea.

Just because SAF happened, doesn't make all cup winning managers serial winners. There are plenty of crap managers who have won trophies over the years.

I'm not disagreeing, I was just surprised to see someone say you can never judge a manager on a cup run.

 

[redIndianDevil]

It must be the trophies yes, deary me. You do realise trophies are quite important in football right?

Did you miss the game at the weekend, where we controlled the whole game against the best team in the world? We also won one of those meaningless trophies as well but from the sounds of it you're not too fussed about that.

How can you possibly say he's our worst manager since Fergie, that doesn't make sense based on any meaningful metric.

We controlled the game? Granted City didn't threaten much but it was yet another deep line, park the bus crap with which we have lost so many points over the course of the season.

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

Premature sackings is solely what stands between SAF and a million other copies of him.

If we applied your logic back then where would we be?

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'm not disagreeing, I was just surprised to see someone say you can never judge a manager on a cup run.

Only a fool judges a manager on a cup run and ignores everything else

 

[Rojofiam]

Hang on a second what do you lot think happens when we're two months I tot he new season and he's serving up the same shite , he's signed some proper duds for 80m each from eredivisie and we are languishing in mid table?

It's far more risky to keep him there's nothing to suggest he'll do better in the window or the league next season.

You don't have to go overboard with your agenda. You can be ten Hag out without claiming we'll sign players for 80m from the Eredivisie, and also already knowing they'll flop, especially under Ineos.

 

[JPRouve]

Okay, if you think that is a myth. Lets talk about falling out with board at Dortmund, Chelsea, PSG and now sacked from Bayern too.

He is in a league where they won the title and this season nowhere near good enough.

He is clearly not the man to take us forward, going with Tuchel will be a Jose mistake, he just simply wont get us anywhere closer to winning the league than Ten Hag has.

He didn't fallout with PSG's board. He had an issue with Leonardo and he decided to not extend his contract. The issue with Leonardo was about his team building which was terrible, yet Leonardo thought that it was a good idea to take shots at Tuchel in spite of failing to fix big squad issues and wasting money on areas that weren't priorities, which was eventually followed by Tuchel responding and both exchange via press conferences. Leonardo was eventually sacked for being useless.

At Dortmund it was about the bus attack incident before the game against Monaco. Tuchel said that the club and the UEFA forced them to play and Dortmund says that it wasn't true. At least that's how I remember it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I'm starting to think the lack of options will save him.

 

[sugar_kane]

We controlled the game? Granted City didn't threaten much but it was yet another deep line, park the bus crap with which we have lost so many points over the course of the season.

How many games have you seen City not threaten much the past few years? Do you think them not doing that much at the weekend was just a happy coincidence?

 

[JPRouve]

I'm starting to think the lack of options will save him.

There is as many options as usual. If he stays it's because they want it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

There is as many options as usual. If he stays it's because they want it.

Maybe. They have been talking to other managers but might feel sticking with Ten Hag another year is genuinely the same level of risk as moving for Tuchel.

 

[redIndianDevil]

How many games have you seen City not threaten much the past few years? Do you think them not doing that much at the weekend was just a happy coincidence?

Yes. There is a reason for our position in the league table.

 

[Marwood]

We hired a mechanic. His job was to fix the engine so we could keep up with the super fast Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal.

He has applied an absolutely beautiful paint job with the FA Cup and we should all appreciate that.

He has also spent 18 months just blindly banging the engine with a spanner and putting us much further behind those faster cars. Doing the opposite of the main job he was hired for.

If a potentially better mechanic is available we should let them take a look and thank him for the pretty paint job.

Edit: This is a brilliant metaphor and you are all welcome.

Except the mechanic wanted control over which parts should be used. Then chose Ford parts because his weakness is spotting quality.

 

[sugar_kane]

He didn't fallout with PSG's board. He had an issue with Leonardo and he decided to not extend his contract. The issue with Leonardo was about his team building which was terrible, yet Leonardo thought that it was a good idea to take shots at Tuchel in spite of failing to fix big squad issues and wasting money on areas that weren't priorities, which was eventually followed by Tuchel responding and both exchange via press conferences. Leonardo was eventually sacked for being useless.

At Dortmund it was about the bus attack incident before the game against Monaco. Tuchel said that the club and the UEFA forced them to play and Dortmund says that it wasn't true. At least that's how I remember it.

If you've fallen out with literally four clubs there's a fairly high chance it's you who is the arsehole. At the very least, you're terrible at picking clubs.

The Dortmund fallout wasn't just about the bus, he'd fallen out with everyone by the end:
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...kdown-dortmund-hierarchy-leads-premature-exit

I've said it before but he's just Mourinho without the charm or magnitude of success.

 

[Red00012]

I'm starting to think the lack of options will save him.

They’ll never be as many Options
Tuchel
De Zerbi
Amorim
McKenna
Poch
Xavi
Potter

not all these are good options but they are a lot of available managers over the past few weeks

 

[sugar_kane]

Yes. There is a reason for our position in the league table.

Yeah you're right there is - having nearly our entire defence injured for a whole season.

 

[Red00012]

I’m Ten Hag out just because of what I’ve seen over the past 2 seasons it’s 120 games he should be judged on not 2 stand out cup games in the last 3 months.
Also Antony is a sackable offence alone seeing as he coached him previously

 

[JPRouve]

Maybe. They have been talking to other managers but might feel sticking with Ten Hag another year is genuinely the same level of risk as moving for Tuchel.

Agreed but it's not due to a lack of options.

 

[LordSpud]

He's not come off the back of finishing 8th, with a minus goal difference and 14 losses. So will be afforded more leeway, but even then the idea of sacking managers that are doing a shit job really isn't as difficult as some people seem to think is is. It's not a marriage.

I don't think he's doing a shit job though. Too much is being made of this 8th in the league rubbish. Trophies are all I care about. He's doing it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

They’ll never be as many Options
Tuchel
De Zerbi
McKenna
Poch
Xavi
Potter

not all these are good options but they are a lot of available managers over the past few weeks

McKenna is out anyway, and I think he was the most interesting option in that you would need to afford him time and fans would likely have been most patient with. The others are no less a risk than sticking with Ten Hag another season to be honest.

 

[JPRouve]

If you've fallen out with literally four clubs there's a fairly high chance it's you who is the arsehole. At the very least, you're terrible at picking clubs.

The Dortmund fallout wasn't just about the bus, he'd fallen out with everyone by the end:
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...kdown-dortmund-hierarchy-leads-premature-exit

I've said it before but he's just Mourinho without the charm or magnitude of success.

Sometimes that's true but I don't see how he is the asshole when it comes to PSG, Chelsea and Bayern. In the case of Dortmund I think that he is at fault but the rest, not really.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Yeah you're right there is - having nearly our entire defence injured for a whole season.

Oh also our attack has been clueless against a lot of crap teams but to take a two goal lead against title winners is a happy coincidence.

I'm all for winding up City fans by saying we controlled the game, but I won't be delusional as to think that's the truth.

 

[Longshanks]

It must be the trophies yes, deary me. You do realise trophies are quite important in football right?

Did you miss the game at the weekend, where we controlled the whole game against the best team in the world? We also won one of those meaningless trophies as well but from the sounds of it you're not too fussed about that.

How can you possibly say he's our worst manager since Fergie, that doesn't make sense based on any meaningful metric.

Worst league finish post fergie and worst CL performance post fergie are pretty big metrics I would say, unless you see the league and champions league as meaningless.

The domestic trophies aren't meaningless, but for a club of our stature they are not really a measuring stick. He deserves plaudits for winning them no doubt but I would expect most semi competent managers to be able to deliver the domestic trophies at a club with our resources. Plenty of previous managers have and the majority of there where deemed not good enough because of our performances in the league.

We should be measured on our league and champions league performances something that our manager has compleatly failed in this season.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

If we applied your logic back then where would we be?

What is my logic? My point being is that using SAF as a reference point is both lazy and insulting to the great man. Solely winning a secondary cup is enough to gloss over us hovering over relegation standard in many significant metrics for an entire league season (in addition to us embarrassing ourselves out of Europe's elite to boot), is not worthy of a top club. If INEOS do decide to keep Ten Hag I do hope they have concluded with that the underlying metrics can be explained/excused and also that injuries is not mainly attributed to his coaching and tactics, and not just because there's a lack of options.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Agreed but it's not due to a lack of options.

I think if they do stick with Ten Hag it is because there isn't that obvious replacement available. I don't think it's a bad thing, but I would put that down to a lack of options.

 

[pocco]

Yeah you're right there is - having nearly our entire defence injured for a whole season.

Parts of the season, yes. Mainly 2 players have been missing. But when we had them, we still weren't great.

At one point we had 3/4 first choice defenders available for a number of weeks at one stage, with Shaw, Varane, Dalot and AWB available, on top of Maguire and Evans. The defence he selected? Reguilion LB - Shaw CB - Maguire CB - Dalot RB. Bench: Varane, AWB. I recall one game in that period in particular, where we lost to Bournemouth 3-0 and it should have been 5 or 6 nil.

 

[izak]

I wish the club would just either back him or move on, the last thing we want is uncertainty hanging over us going into pre-season.
A big few days coming up for Ineos.

This

 

[LordSpud]

Hang on a second what do you lot think happens when we're two months I tot he new season and he's serving up the same shite , he's signed some proper duds for 80m each from eredivisie and we are languishing in mid table?

It's far more risky to keep him there's nothing to suggest he'll do better in the window or the league next season.

INEOS are coming up with the transfer targets now. So if they decide to scout and pay for shite then that's on them. The same as the fact we overpaid for both Martinez and Antony falls on the shoulders of Arnold and Murtough for a) leaving it late in the window b) agreeing to cough up the amount and c) not overruling Ten Hag if they felt it was a bum deal.

 

[romufc]

We live for the moments, and winning cups is always a good moment, and the QF win against Liverpool is up there with some of my personal favourite moments as a united fan.

But there always a bigger picture and In my opinion the cup wins have papered over some massive cracks when it comes to our manager.

I want the best for the club I support, and with our resources we should be one of the very best, and I don't see ETH on the evidence iv seen as being able to do that.

I can remember those really special moments of winning the league and champions league, that's the shiny trophies I want and believe this club is capable of delivering but not the current manager.

Now please without being presumptuous (if possible) tell me what I'm missing in regards to ETH?

I totally understand why you would want him sacked, our league campaign was poor, some of his decision making was also very poor.

I agree cup runs have papered over alot of cracks under his tenure but also we have to look at evidence since SAF. We have had serial winners in LVG, Jose who failed too.

At what point does the fan bas decide, enough is enough, we cant go on this 2/3 year manager cycle and rebuild from 0 every time?

Look at the list of options, Tuchel is again another one of those 2/3 year managers.

 

[golden_blunder]

Deserves another year with proper Backroom staff in place is all I’m saying! I just think he deserves another year with Ratcliffe in. Think it would be a massive mistake in sacking him especially with two trophies in two years and be a disgrace if he is sacked.. Club has been a gigantic mess for 10 years. I’ll give it a rest.

That’s fate enough, but you can say that (as you have just done) without the need to insult others. This is a very decisive issue as you can see from our poll. We all have different opinions on how we get there but we all want our club to be successful

 

[Von Mistelroum]

What a weird open letter. Who exactly is this group? How many fans do they speak for?

What a bonkers situation. Regardless of which fans wrote this, it's really odd. Imagine fans of other big clubs desperately clamouring for a manager who has failed so abjectly in the season that he's setting unwanted record after unwanted record, to be kept in the role because he had a cup run that ultimately ended well (despite almost losing to Coventry).

Even if you feel like he should maybe be given more time for some reason, to go to the length of writing an open letter, begging for his job is just very odd indeed.

I was very excited to get Ten Hag in, and I hoped that he would do great things, but honestly he's looked completely out of place. Recently he can only talk about injury excuses and how he can only do anything with a full squad. His decisions have been baffling, his comments have been surreal, his tactics have been extremely questionable to say the least.

I am now sure we'll keep him due to this groundswell of support after beating a lackluster City in a cup final, but I also fully expect to be in the exact same position, hearing the exact same excuses next season. By then I'm sure we'll be wondering why it took so long and how we've fallen even further behind.

 

[royboy16]

Let him steady the ship while the INEOS appointments settle in and find their feet.

 

[JPRouve]

I think if they do stick with Ten Hag it is because there isn't that obvious replacement available. I don't think it's a bad thing, but I would put that down to a lack of options.

My point is that there is nearly never obvious replacements. In the past 10 years the only cases of obvious replacements have been Klopp and Guardiola in 2015. Other than that every club had the choice between promising managers, solid but largely unsuccessful managers and has beens. If that's their argument then United is in trouble.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

My point is that there is nearly never obvious replacements. In the past 10 years the only cases of obvious replacements have been Klopp and Guardiola in 2015. Other than that every club had the choice between promising managers, solid but largely unsuccessful managers and has beens. If that's their argument then United is in trouble.

Yeah, we have taken risk after risk with our appointments. None really payed off.

 

[romufc]

Chelsea and Newcastle also had to deal with pretty bad injuries this season too. It's over simplistic to say with a fully fit squad we'd be higher.

If he stays, those like me who want him out will have to just back him, even if the faith isn't there. I'd happily be proven wrong. What it will mean is patience will likely be thin with those fans.

You make the point. Chelsea and Newcastle also had pretty bad injuries and they also had poor seasons. Chelsea's season was saved based on their last 5 games where they had players back, a consistent back 4. You are proving the point, when teams have players back, they play better, shock isn't it?

The GREAT Liverpool team struggled to get top 4 based on CB injuries a few years back.

 

[TheReligion]

I’m starting to think they’ll keep him.

1 year left, enough time to see how McKenna does in the PL.

Was that the conversation between his representatives?

 

[Rojofiam]

Maybe being in the minority of people who see football as a form of entertainment and not an actual lifestyle skews my perception here, but the #1 reason I want him gone is because I'm really tired of us being out of any big title challenge by the end of January.

Would a new manager fix this immediately? Probably not, but it might. Whereas keeping Ten Hag around certainly won't.

I have no doubt he'll do better next year. I don't think 8th and a negative GD is a good reflection of his managerial capabilities. But I'm willing to bet my kidney we will be out of any real European and domestic trophy discussion by February and the most we'll have to look forward to for half the aeason will be another possible Mickey Mouse cup run.

I don't think there's any manager that can come in and win us the league on his first season, but I'd like us to at least stay in the conversation for a while. And that's the one thing ETH has never even been close to delivering.

We weren't far away from the two title challengers in January 2023. If you're asking for more, well, then which post-SAF managers managed to get closer to the title race by the new year? Ole was in a similar position in January 2021 but that's it. It's an illogical point you bring up here.

You also don't know whether keeping ETH will fix that or not.

For the record, I'm not ETH in, nor am I ETH out. Just pointing out that there's a lot of stuff to criticize him for, but I'm reading the weirdest takes on here from posters wanting him gone.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, we have taken risk after risk with our appointments. None really payed off.

Every club does it, we have actually been a bit slower to move on than most.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

We weren't far away from the two title challengers in January 2023. If you're asking for more, well, then which post-SAF managers managed to get closer to the title race by the new year? Ole was in a similar position in January 2021 but that's it. It's an illogical point you bring up here.

You also don't know whether keeping ETH will fix that or not.

For the record, I'm not ETH in, nor am I ETH out. Just pointing out that there's a lot of stuff to criticize him for, but I'm reading the weirdest takes on here from posters wanting him gone.

That applies for both sides. We had a poster hailing ETH as our ideal manager yesterday. Wouldn't exactly say that when 99% of our season was utter crap.