The idea that we will find a golden goose and stick with him for a decade is quite unlikely. Managers like that are rare. Klopp is throwing in the towel after 8 years, Guardiola might be doing the same. We need to build an operation that can handle replacing a manager every 2-4 years without resetting the cycle. That way we are well set up when the perfect candidate shows up - if he shows up. The goal has to be to be able to win trophies and progress the club without being overly reliant on a single person. Not sacking the manager "because it did not work before" is a nice ideal, but very unrealistic.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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The idea that we will find a golden goose and stick with him for a decade is quite unlikely. Managers like that are rare. Klopp is throwing in the towel after 8 years, Guardiola might be doing the same. We need to build an operation that can handle replacing a manager every 2-4 years without resetting the cycle. That way we are well set up when the perfect candidate shows up - if he shows up. The goal has to be to be able to win trophies and progress the club without being overly reliant on a single person. Not sacking the manager "because it did not work before" is a nice ideal, but very unrealistic.
Have we? Jose got sacked after 2 seasons, LVG the same, Moyes in 8 months, Ole after 2 seasons, now fans want Ten Hag gone after 2 seasons.
Are you suggesting that if we dont win the league or CL in 1 season the manager should be sacked?
If redcafe has this many people backing EtH, the match going will be more EtH-in, as the rose-tinted delusion of "good old SAF days" and "back the manager" is still strong with that lot.
I hope INEOS has better judgment and be decisive sooner for once and get rid off EtH. I agree about the injury-crisis, but I refuse to believe that he can't coach us play decent attacking football against the likes of Bournemouth, Luton, Burnley etc. It's utter pathetic that we have to desperately cling on to results against these rubbish teams.
I hope INEOS has better judgment and be decisive sooner for once and get rid off EtH. I agree about the injury-crisis, but I refuse to believe that he can't coach us play decent attacking football against the likes of Bournemouth, Luton, Burnley etc. It's utter pathetic that we have to desperately cling on to results against these rubbish teams.
It isn't unlikely though is it? Throwing the towel? You mean after winning everything they can? I would rather my manager throw in a towel after 8 years winning PL and CL than sacking managers every 2 seasons for 1 top 4 place and domestic cup.
In the last 10/12 years the managers who have been consistently challenging have been the ones who have been given the time. Pep, Klopp, Arteta.
What evidence is there that this sacking every 2 years works?
You can argue every single manager there should have been sacked way before they were sacked.
And ETH has had 9 lives thus far.
No I'm suggesting that most clubs sack managers at higher speed including the ones that win leagues and CLs.
This is an extremely disingenous argument.
Pep/Klopp had an amazing CV(Pep especially) beforehand and showed clear progression at Liverpool/City.
The same thing with Arteta regarding progression.
We massively regressed this season. This idea that if ETH gets time, he'll automatically come good is lost in reality. There's more evidence to the contrary.
Do you really think a manager capable of challenging for Premier League titles would serve up a season in which the GD was negative?
I read a lot of comments in this post where fans (for and against) feel conflicted about ETH tenure.
For me it's quite simple choice: if you believe that he's the manager that is going to challenge and accomplish a title win, you back him. Otherwise, we have to look elsewhere. It's a bit like saying: if you want to become a doctor, you study medicine. But if you are on a business studies course, you simply need to stop because you'll never be a doctor!
For me it's quite simple choice: if you believe that he's the manager that is going to challenge and accomplish a title win, you back him. Otherwise, we have to look elsewhere. It's a bit like saying: if you want to become a doctor, you study medicine. But if you are on a business studies course, you simply need to stop because you'll never be a doctor!
People aren't asking/suggesting Ten Hag be sacked because he hasn't won the league or CL though.
We should always sack a manager when the team ends up playing such rubbish football that we saw this season after 2 seasons and millions spent.
Stop replying with injuries, injuries etc. We were atrocious against relegation fodder and lower division teams. Take the entire core of City and Liverpool players out, their second teams will still dominate possession and press relentlessly and aim to play attacking football even though they won't win as much. That's what a good coach does to a team.
I’m 100 percent sure they will be. Ineos ‘hopefully’ are professional and will make a decision which best fits all the work they have been doing in the background with their leadership appointments.
If they keep ETH it will be because he is their guy who they want to start this new process with and will also be given a new contract.
A disgrace after our worse season ever! Dont think so!
Nah, there certainly are parallels you can draw without being insulting. The club was struggling when SAF took over, we had a dreadful league campaign and winning the FA cup kept him in a job.
FA cup is secondary? Really? I love it, certainly I've experienced more joy in one day than any Arsenal fan has this season. Relegation standard? Last I checked you were relegated for coming 18th, 19th and 20th not 8th...
Was SAF not worthy of a top club in 2005? Who is being insulting now?
To answer this:
What underlying metrics would have been used to keep SAF back in 89/90? We ended the season on the same goal difference as this year and lost more games, would "underlying metrics" mean we should have sacked him back then? Would you acknowledge that it would have been a mistake to do so? So your thinking is flawed. Sometimes you've got to have faith in people to turn things around, realise that this is probably the hardest managerial job in football andit will take most coaches time to get to grips with it.
I get why people think he should go but I think right now it would be a mistake, the players are still playing for him and the club has seen over a decade of mismanagement which cannot be undone in two seasons. If next season performances have not improved (i.e. with a fit squad and better options after the summer transfer window we are still getting run through midfield) then I would agree we should probably move him on, but I believe we've been through the worst of it and still qualified for Europe and won the FA cup.
Yeah, but Klopp and Pep are this generations Wenger and SAF. These guys are extremely rare. If we had one of them we would not sack them either. There has to be a realisation that the majority of managers are never going to be on their level - they are a cut above the rest in terms of personality, tactical ability, coaching ability and inate leadership ability.
The last 10/12 years have been dominated by City, largely because of money and having the best manager in the world - not because they gave managers time. They were on 2/3 year cycles too until they got a hold of Pep. Which is entirely normal for top clubs.
No I agree with you on that.
Arteta finished 8th twice.
Ofcourse when you look at GD, the results etc... it is regression from ETH. However; ofcourse everyone who wants him out will say this is on him and excuses but how can you build on something when you have no CB pairing, No LB, No backup ST?
Then you put into this Sancho, so really from the start of the season, he didnt have Martial, Sancho, Shaw, Licha & Varane, Casemiro, Mainoo all playing together.
Take out Saliba, Rice, Saka for 70% of the season and then see if Arsenal progress.
The most successful manager in this list (by far) is Guardiola and he barely needed any time. He led City to a 100 point league season in his second attempt.
That leaves Klopp and Arteta, the latter having won almost nothing.
So are you saying injuries dont matter ?
I am so glad you brought this up because I will take you back to 2020/21 when Liverpool had injuries and kept losing games, ofcouse their teams were amazing then and they challenged for the league right?
Context... a elite manager picking up from a team that won the league and still needing a full season.
Liverpool didn't finish with a negative GD.
It is unprecedented for a manager to finish with a negative GD in 1 season and then proceeded to challenge in a later season. I am pretty sure it's never happened in the history of football.
I reckon SJR is waiting for the balance on this poll to tip before he confirms ETH stays. Nearly there.
Thank god pivotal moments in football are determined from more than goal difference hey.
Leicester won the league, City finished 4th.
It's a good barometer for how dominant a team is.
But some of you keep ignoring how finishing with a negative GD is incredibly damning, so go ahead.
No one is ignoring anything. It's a secondary stat. We all know ten hag didn't dominate games this year, it's not really a debate.
I don't know if it qualifies as evidence but clubs that have had more manager turnover than United are the likes of Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG, Inter, Bayern, Milan, Napoli, Barcelona or Chelsea. Chelsea have been challengers and won more than Klopp and Arteta combined, the same is true for Bayern.
There is basically three successful clubs that have kept their managers City, Atletico and Liverpool. And frankly only City have actually been successful for a sustained period of time.
You citing SAF isn't the gotcha you think it is
So when you said you were sure it hasn't happened in the history of football you meant American football?
Agreed they didnt but he also didnt win a trophy did he?
Ten Hag has been in 3 finals in 2 years. So now is it trophies that matter or GD? Its the first time in my life that I have seen GD as a base of how good / bad a season is.
No, but that's the only time it's likely happened.
And it was SAF. And it was a very different time in football.
Are you seriously going to argue that because SAF did it, ETH can do it too?
I assume they’re gonna make a statement whether they sack or keep him? And explain the reasons why for both.
The trophies are great, but surely we place more importance on Premier League titles than domestic cups? League form is a better barometer of how good as a team is and GD is part of that.
Di Matteo won a CL with Chelsea. He was sacked a few months later. If that happened here, I can't even imagine the backing he'd get from some of the supporters here in the ensuing season.
The similarity regardless of the time was that they were both operating at a time where the club was in as big a mess as its ever been.
Issue is we lack identity and overall our gameplay has been pretty crap. This happened during most of the season.
Reason is large number of injuries, but also on EtH part some of the transfers hasn't worked out (Antony most prominently) and his stubbornness with some of the formations and personnel.
Now whether or not he deserves another season it's another question.
Personally I think he does, considering we won 2 cups during his seasons, major or not is something we can build on and considering the injuries we had this season. That and the options we have on the market aren't managers that would IMO make us better at this point without completely tearing it apart once again.
I said in the last 10-12 years.
Milan won the league with Piolo who has been manager since 2019.
Oh Chelsea really? apart from winning the league in 2016, can you tell me when they last challenged?
This is bang on.
That is patently untrue at the moment. There are far more resources/money involved to get results now than back then. There were greater issues back then.
I mean the way some of you go on about the club, you'd think ETH is dealing with a relegation level squad and unprecedented issues.
This also ignores SAF's incredible work with Aberdeen(which easily trumps anything ETH did with Ajax).
But here we are again, we're going down the route of comparing ETH with SAF. I mean, this is getting nonsensical honestly.
Excellent post.
Some fans are genuinely way too attached to a 'messiah' being the manager.
Is it the biggest mess it has ever been? I don't think that we are even close to that if we stick to the past 10 years, to me that would be 2014 and it's nowhere near the situation in November 1986.
Of course it's not.
It's a silly comparison trying to absolve ETH of blame and equating it to SAF then.
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