Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JPRouve said:
To be clear, unlike many I see it as a positive. I have issues with his management this season and have long term doubts but I believe that he is a good and versatile head coach when he does have his head stuck in the sand. Now the reason I do want to point out his tactical approaches is because many are making things up when it comes to his preferred style.
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I know it may seen as I am blindly supporting him but its not. Since the Palace game where I thought I cant see a way back, new evidence came to light, where he got over his ego and stubbornness and changed tactics, what we have all been saying, get more compact.

Secondly, the names mentioned to replace him are quite poor. I know people want Tuchel but to me he is going to be toxic just the way Jose was when things are not going well, we know there will be a point at United when it will blow up.
 
sugar_kane said:
I reckon SJR is waiting for the balance on this poll to tip before he confirms ETH stays. Nearly there.
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It’s fascinating to watch the poll. Shows all the lurkers in here, who have views but rarely share them. Funny how many never voted already. Maybe it shows the groundswell, in a way. Caf is a bubble in a way, but even in here you can’t shut out the clamour.
 
romufc said:
I will be honest, it feels like half hearted support because that is what it is, I wont forget the season, how bad it has been.

The problem is, I will feel half hearted with any other manager coming in, because all the names mentioned are below par really.
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That is a fair approach and something I'm headed towards too. I only found McKenna to be semi-exciting and even he would be a bit underwhelming. I don't see neither of Tuchel, De Zerbi or Poch being a good fit for the INEOS model or the current team both short and long term. And god forbid Southgate, who would make me question my existence.
 
romufc said:
I know it may seen as I am blindly supporting him but its not. Since the Palace game where I thought I cant see a way back, new evidence came to light, where he got over his ego and stubbornness and changed tactics, what we have all been saying, get more compact.

Secondly, the names mentioned to replace him are quite poor. I know people want Tuchel but to me he is going to be toxic just the way Jose was when things are not going well, we know there will be a point at United when it will blow up.
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A man doesn't just get over being stubborn, it's part of his personality, if he stays we will be right back here after the usual 1st 2 games loss with him.
 
It's really impossible to keep up with this thread. You do some work and bam! another 5 pages added. :lol:
 
До
Matt851 said:
What about the other games martinez and Shaw were fit for when we were atrocious or do we just conveniently ignore those.

It's probably more worth noting the moment he changed his midfield setup we looked more solid. Why did it take so long for him to see what everyone else did for an age

We have played well for about 2-3 months of his tenure and that is surely not enough

Do we also just ignore the impact ten hags lack of rotation last season may well have had on our injury list as well

We played well against city but we won't often have the opportunity to play against such a high line on the counter and its all too easy to imagine us still being dross against other teams
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What do you mean when they were fit? They were never fully fit. Comming of injuries and then got injured again.
Are you aware that we played Casemiro/Evans as central defenders as there was literally no one available... What rotations are we talking about here? It's like City playing Rodri (at 33 y) and Kompany (at 38y) at CD and expect them to perform. Do you think they would have been in the same position as they are now with these two playing 10 games? Surely not.
None of the players he brought was fit enough to play this season. That tells you we were not able to play his style.
And for that reason alone, he should be given more time
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_Football_League
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You keep on harping back to Sir Alex's challenges back in the day but it's almost an insult to the great man and shows a big lack of contextual awareness. Stop with the nonsense please.

Do you think that if Sir Alex had access to the resources modern day managers, Tan Hag in particular, have he would have taken 6 seasons to get it right? Take our academy, the academy that he was also building at the time, which can give you two legitimate starters in 18 months, which has produced a 20 goal player who is now a veteran albeit struggling right now. Do you really think that having that in addition to access to half a billion pounds SAF would have struggled? Respect us please.
 
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BarstoolProphet said:
That is a fair approach and something I'm headed towards too. I only found McKenna to be semi-exciting and even he would be a bit underwhelming. I don't see neither of Tuchel, De Zerbi or Poch being a good fit for the INEOS model or the current team both short and long term. And god forbid Southgate, who would make me question my existence.
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Exactly, I mean if fans are wanting Ten Hag sacked, Poch is even worse, he spent more got a clean squad and still had no style of play, lost to kids in a final. DI Zerbi is not a winner, Tuchel is just another Jose.

Also McKenna is new flavour, may play well but lets be honest, these players didnt like the way he trained, called it school boy, he needs a year in the PL.

There are alot of doubts on McKenna's ability to do it in the PL, his defensive record and will the style work in the PL? Look at Kompany and Burnley, 100 points in Championship but PL is a different ball game.
 
romufc said:
I know it may seen as I am blindly supporting him but its not. Since the Palace game where I thought I cant see a way back, new evidence came to light, where he got over his ego and stubbornness and changed tactics, what we have all been saying, get more compact.

Secondly, the names mentioned to replace him are quite poor. I know people want Tuchel but to me he is going to be toxic just the way Jose was when things are not going well, we know there will be a point at United when it will blow up.
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You are free to support him, he is our manager so I support him. I may have doubts but I will support him until he isn't a club employee. The only issue that I have is with certain arguments that are just fallacious or make no sense.
 
romufc said:
You make the point. Chelsea and Newcastle also had pretty bad injuries and they also had poor seasons. Chelsea's season was saved based on their last 5 games where they had players back, a consistent back 4. You are proving the point, when teams have players back, they play better, shock isn't it?

The GREAT Liverpool team struggled to get top 4 based on CB injuries a few years back.
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We've had players fit at points of the season too. Underperforming is one thing but the drop off has been dramatic and we haven't outperformed other teams with similar struggles.

This wasn't a season where we had a feebly attempt at top 4 and ended up 6th.

Failing to qualify for CL would have been accepted by many if our performances were a lot better and our points total/position wasn't so low.
 
Wumminator said:
As a football fan you are supposed to get attached to your team.
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You also need a bit of intellect to avoid conflating a hired contractor, who is also failing, with the club. The club is bigger than one man, the mess he has made of this season can not be whitewashed by a Cup win. Certainly hope the executive isn't as fickle as a few on here.
 
Rojofiam said:
You don't have to go overboard with your agenda. You can be ten Hag out without claiming we'll sign players for 80m from the Eredivisie, and also already knowing they'll flop, especially under Ineos.
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ETH famously only signed if he had control over signings, personally I think its a financial incentive that he gets a cut on deals via specific agencies.

Realistically he is an overall manager that wants to mould the team into his own philosophy or playing style that we are now moving away from (also a reason why I think hes gone no matter what).

In terms of my opinion being voiced my way, the people who want him in are making sodding online petitions and thorthing at the mouth with arguments why he should stay.

Red00012 said:
They’ll never be as many Options
Tuchel
De Zerbi
Amorim
McKenna
Poch
Xavi
Potter

not all these are good options but they are a lot of available managers over the past few weeks
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I cant wrap my head around the constant peddling of "no one available" theres literally everyone available and those that arent "on the market" you make them an offer for example Chelsea just got Maresca. Its such a straw man argument when you can approach anyone and there are also many free options out there.

LordSpud said:
INEOS are coming up with the transfer targets now. So if they decide to scout and pay for shite then that's on them. The same as the fact we overpaid for both Martinez and Antony falls on the shoulders of Arnold and Murtough for a) leaving it late in the window b) agreeing to cough up the amount and c) not overruling Ten Hag if they felt it was a bum deal.
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As before, ETH would have to have a re-written contract that he agrees to, he has famously been on a contract where he has control over incomings and outgoings which is not in alignment with the INEOS. On the current flops he was the one rejecting viable alternatives to the likes of Mount and Anthony because he had to have his man. How does that work now? that approach has completely hamstrung us for the coming windows also.

Dont forget INEOS review will take that sort of bullshit into account.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Don't see how it's worse than 2014 to be honest.
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We had uncertainty on ownership, we had global scout heads sacked, we were scurrying around trying to get ex players brothers coming in to help on legal work and negotiating deals. And we were in free fall after the worst season in PL history. It most certainly was worse
 
saivet said:
We've had players fit at points of the season too. Underperforming is one thing but the drop off has been dramatic and we haven't outperformed other teams with similar struggles.

This wasn't a season where we had a feebly attempt at top 4 and ended up 6th.

Failing to qualify for CL would have been accepted by many if our performances were a lot better and our points total/position wasn't so low.
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I would like to re-direct you to the thread:

End of Season - % PL Minutes Played Analysis - United and Top 8 (Rest of league TBC)

When you have 3 players out of 11 to play 70% plus minutes, it shows you what I mean.

Can you tell me when we had our "first 11" fit for more than 1 game ?

Finally, you say similar struggles, can you let me know which other team had the same number of injuries to us?

Chelsea - No europe, lost to kids in LC final, Europa conference league - playing 1 game a week.

Newcastle - Injury hit first half season, bottom of CL groups, No European

Manutd - Last in CL, underwhelming PL campaign, Trophy, Europa league.
 
Rapsel said:
It's really impossible to keep up with this thread. You do some work and bam! another 5 pages added. :lol:
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Yeah I'll leave it a few hours then scroll through 5-10 pages looking for a tweet. Anything big that happens will start with a tweet.

Annoying when you actually find one and then it's just someone like Jamie Jackson or David McDonnell speculating about what Ratcliffe wants
 
romufc said:
I would like to re-direct you to the thread:

End of Season - % PL Minutes Played Analysis - United and Top 8 (Rest of league TBC)

When you have 3 players out of 11 to play 70% plus minutes, it shows you what I mean.

Can you tell me when we had our "first 11" fit for more than 1 game ?

Finally, you say similar struggles, can you let me know which other team had the same number of injuries to us?

Chelsea - No europe, lost to kids in LC final, Europa conference league - playing 1 game a week.

Newcastle - Injury hit first half season, bottom of CL groups, No European

Manutd - Last in CL, underwhelming PL campaign, Trophy, Europa league.
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I'm not saying Chelsea should be happy with their season. Chelsea scored 20 more goals than use and Newcastle scored 28 more is also important context. Our injury problems have been more so in other areas than in attack too.

Just because Newcastle and Chelsea were shite, doesn't contextualise itself into something positive for us. Context is important and the injuries are important context, but the issue has been bigger than missing out on top 4. Like I said, better performance metrics and greater signs of potential have been lacking this season.

We had 2 more separate injuries than Chelsea, 4 more than Newcastle and 6 more than Villa.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq55wy2qx21o
 
I find it hard to believe that anyone who is applying pure logic will defend a manager that led a Man United team to the following stats:

*Finished hottom of the table in a group that included Galatasary and Copenhagen.
*Had the worst season in our premier league history.
*14 league defeats in a single season.
*Finished the league with a negative goal difference
* No noticeable improvement in style of play.

Come on now, an injury crisis should not be reason enough to concede 31 shots to brentford, or to be dominated by teams with inferior squads.
 
stevoc said:
Ah so if you want to keep Ten Hag (or Moyes/Louis/Jose/Ole) it means you're smart then?

:lol:
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Well I wanted all those managers gone (except ETH) so I must be dumb too. None of them had a coherent plan and the club had lost its way under the Glazers. Sacking him puts us right back there.
 
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saivet said:
I'm not saying Chelsea should be happy with their season. Chelsea scored 20 more goals than use and Newcastle scored 28 more is also important context. Our injury problems have been more so in other areas than in attack too.

Just because Newcastle and Chelsea were shite, doesn't contextualise itself into something positive for us. Context is important and the injuries are important context, but the issue has been bigger than missing out on top 4. Like I said, better performance metrics and greater signs of potential have been lacking this season.

We had 2 more separate injuries than Chelsea, 4 more than Newcastle and 6 more than Villa.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq55wy2qx21o
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Right, like you said contextualise, so you need to do the same too.

You start the season with 2 ST's, one you signed a few days before season started aged 20 then expect him to play every game because the other is injured all season?

Then you have off field issues with Sancho, Antony etc... then you relying on a 19 year old Winger to create for us in his second full season?

Then you look at the base of midfield, Mainoo, injured 1/2 season, Casemiro injured, Mount injured.

Then you go into defence, where you are relying on a 38 year old Johnny Evans and Maguire who was out the door in the summer.
 
it was three days ago guys, can everyone just tune back into sanity fm

we were absolutely piss-poor last season, a laughing stock at times

one Ole-esque backs to the wall win changes very little

the players like him? who gives a shit if we're getting turned over by shite on the regular
 
romufc said:
Right, like you said contextualise, so you need to do the same too.

You start the season with 2 ST's, one you signed a few days before season started aged 20 then expect him to play every game because the other is injured all season?

Then you have off field issues with Sancho, Antony etc... then you relying on a 19 year old Winger to create for us in his second full season?

Then you look at the base of midfield, Mainoo, injured 1/2 season, Casemiro injured, Mount injured.

Then you go into defence, where you are relying on a 38 year old Johnny Evans and Maguire who was out the door in the summer.
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Sancho wasn't playing before and Antony wasn't out for too long. Similarly, I'm sure Chelsea and Newcastle fans could write something similar.

It wasn't a situation where United were the only top team to have injury problems. The most fortunate team was definitely Arsenal, but beyond that most other teams could argue they would have done better if not for injuries.
 
saivet said:
Sancho wasn't playing before and Antony wasn't out for too long. Similarly, I'm sure Chelsea and Newcastle fans could write something similar.

It wasn't a situation where United were the only top team to have injury problems. The most fortunate team was definitely Arsenal, but beyond that most other teams could argue they would have done better if not for injuries.
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It is actually a fact that United were the team to have the most injuries, I dont know why you think that is opinion based, there is evidence behind it.

Chelsea did start playing better once their injury situation improved.

City won 1/6 games when Rodri didnt play.
 
There's a serious overrating of Ten Hag's managerial ability in our fanbase that should be studied. It's like some of you were watching a different season to the one I witnessed.
 
Tarrou said:
it was three days ago guys, can everyone just tune back into sanity fm

we were absolutely piss-poor last season, a laughing stock at times

one Ole-esque backs to the wall win changes very little

the players like him? who gives a shit if we're getting turned over by shite on the regular
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I disagree.

The club has been so turbulent and badly run at all levels and that's what you see on the pitch. ETH has won cups, inspite of all of this and is scape goated for literally everything that's gone wrong. Since Ineos came on they have had an eye on everything and everyone in the club and that's totally affected players as well, as soon as we have concealed a goal this season we looked like conceding 3 because the players are under the microscope from all angles.
If there is stability off the pitch, coupled with better luck on injuries, we will see a completely different side next season.

I'm not saying we will be title challengers but if the new structure is in place, solid additions, more dead wood cleared and the manager is backed, post the review, I'm positive for next year. It's not all on the manager.
 
stevoc said:
I'd imagine everyone thinks that is likely, how much better is the question though. Finishing 7th with a GD of +1 is better but would you be happpy with that?
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No, but again depends on a lot of factors. I think without another trophy that result wouldn't be good enough after this.
 
At this point I think he deserves to be sacked, but given he only has a year left and the players still seem on board (plus he seems to do well in cups) I'm currently on the "see out his deal" side of the fence.

I just don't see any of the other options as viable.
Tuchel - Obvious footballing pedigree and record, but totally disruptive character who will want way too much influence on players in and out
Pochettino - Serial loser who got carried by Palmer this season, spends all his time moaning in the press
Southgate - With all respect, stick to England
McKenna - Not convinced remotely that his work at Ipswich translates well to us, nor do I think his history at United will help him. It's not like we were amazingly well coached under Solskjaer when he was leading first team training.
De Zerbi - His selling point was that he was a significant step up on Potter and had elevated Brighton to another level. While he had a terrible time with injuries I don't think he's done more than average there this season. An average Brighton manager is not the one.
Frank - I'm convinced his agent is the one linking him with all of these jobs, because he certainly has no business being linked with them otherwise.
 
Blood Mage said:
There's a serious overrating of Ten Hag's managerial ability in our fanbase that should be studied. It's like some of you were watching a different season to the one I witnessed.
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Think it's more just a case of a subset of people having terrible memories. They make their judgements based on the last match because they genuinely cant even remember Palace or Brentford or Coventry or any of the miserable performances before those.

Then there's a big set who just parrot what they see on twitter and youtube.
 
Dion said:
At this point I think he deserves to be sacked, but given he only has a year left and the players still seem on board (plus he seems to do well in cups) I'm currently on the "see out his deal" side of the fence.

I just don't see any of the other options as viable.
Tuchel - Obvious footballing pedigree and record, but totally disruptive character who will want way too much influence on players in and out
Pochettino - Serial loser who got carried by Palmer this season, spends all his time moaning in the press
Southgate - With all respect, stick to England
McKenna - Not convinced remotely that his work at Ipswich translates well to us, nor do I think his history at United will help him. It's not like we were amazingly well coached under Solskjaer when he was leading first team training.
De Zerbi - His selling point was that he was a significant step up on Potter and had elevated Brighton to another level. While he had a terrible time with injuries I don't think he's done more than average there this season. An average Brighton manager is not the one.
Frank - I'm convinced his agent is the one linking him with all of these jobs, because he certainly has no business being linked with them otherwise.
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The question I have to people saying this is - what manager are you waiting for to become available? What does this next great manager look like?
 
romufc said:
You make the point. Chelsea and Newcastle also had pretty bad injuries and they also had poor seasons. Chelsea's season was saved based on their last 5 games where they had players back, a consistent back 4. You are proving the point, when teams have players back, they play better, shock isn't it?

The GREAT Liverpool team struggled to get top 4 based on CB injuries a few years back.
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When teams get injured players back they get better results but not always necessarily performances. Newcastle have the third best xG this season and scored 85 goals, a goal less than Liverpool which suggests if they get their defense fit (as they have shown in the 22/23 season having the best defensive record) they are likely to challenge for the league because the data metrics provides momentum in how they can translate the success of their performances from one campaign to the next.

Additionally Chelsea averaged a higher amount of possession than Arsenal over 38 games and have one of the leagues better xG, again these aren't trophies but they are formats to assess the future imprint of a team in the following season. This is how managers become reputable towards the propulsion of being given time, Jose is the most successful manager of the past decade for United yet he's also a distinguishable example of winning things and heading nowhere. Erik's justification this season is winning a domestic cup because his credibility to build the teams performances has faltered. Injuries are not a constant in this equation as their was a digression that has existed and continued since the team won the cup last year.

So the question is, does Erik as a manager venture the club towards sustainability? he was hired for this purpose but now the narrative is about his managerial pedigree (what he's won) over what's he's building. This is why the notion of giving him another season is lost for me, it serves no purpose. Erik should only stay from a hierarchical standpoint if the owners are confident of extending his contract. The consensus to 'get rid at Christmas' or at any sign of turbulence will only prove INEOS incompetence in not having the foresight to determine a standard beforehand.
 
UpWithRivers said:
The question I have to people saying this is - what manager are you waiting for to become available? What does this next great manager look like?
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They're all waiting for Sir Gareth Southgate MBE. Whether they realise it or not.

Contract with England expires in November. ETH if he's kept on will be getting sacked around November. It all lines up.
 
A decent-sized proportion of the fans seem to think that sacking Ten Hag would be unforgivable.

A decent-sized proportion of the fans seem to think that keeping Ten Hag would be unforgivable.

INEOS have got to be feeling at least a little bit sorry for themselves right now :lol:
 
The meltdown on here when this happens:

Statement from INEOS:

"In our efforts to improve the sporting structure of the club, we have interviewed several coaches for our first team. However we made this clear to Erik that the Final was his interview and he has done everything we asked and more in pursuit of that so as agreed we have offered Erik a contract for a further year under INEOS terms and targets."

Say what you want about the guy but he's won trophies every season since 2018. I have major concerns about the progress on the pitch this season but recognise something many don't seem to.

Just 3 seasons ago this team minus a few Ten Hag signings, with Cristiano Ronaldo up top, Pogba in midfield and a bit more quality in depth than we have now got absolutely dismantled week in week out.

This season with less depth and almost half a season playing second sometimes third choice players sometimes out of position similar has occurred. You can point to player costs and blame that on the manager if you want but he never had the cheque book. Murtough was as much auditioning for his job as director of football in charge of this rebuild as anyone and he failed Ten Hag.

Give him the structure and best in class coaches alongside a target of playing like his Ajax side which is why we should have signed him in the first place (those here that say that's why we did sign him don't recognise the simple nuance that they personally were not privy to why or what terms we gave Erik) and let him work.

I haven't been impressed with how things have been this season, especially post Christmas but credit where its due, that win vs City showed two things to me, that his first team although clearly needing improvements and reinforcements, can compete with an absolutely dominant city side.

We have recently signed a technical director that favours the squad's playing 4-3-3 with a false 9, literally Ten Hags Ajax. Get the players that fit the profile and let's see where it goes. I suspect another trophy.
 
We have played two good games this season. The QF and final of the FA-cup. Both games as underdogs and we won through sheer will and desire (and a bit of luck). The rest of the season is a complete write off with disastrous performances in the league and CL. Should we keep a manager based on two win (albeit great ones)?
 
Stinkypete said:
We have recently signed a technical director that favours the squad's playing 4-3-3 with a false 9, literally Ten Hags Ajax. Get the players that fit the profile and let's see where it goes. I suspect another trophy.
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I dont remember Newcastle or Southampton playing 4-3-3 with a false 9.

And we just spent £72m on a classic number 9 striker, so is he now benched?
 
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