Because of the past two years of some of the worst football United has ever produced? The record shots on goal conceded among the clubs in the top 5 leagues after wasting hundreds of millions of pounds.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I agree. 6th should be the goal. 4th if we have no injuries.
Football fans are emotional and reactionary, look at how far sentiment has swung from 2 extremes between the 4-0 loss to Palace and the win on Saturday.
It's 11 years since we last won the league, never mind did anything of note in the CL. I don't know if you can say people are being impatient at this stage to want their team to get back to that level.
Who wrote it?
How many people were involved?
I'd give Tuchel a shot of the ones available.
Has anyone actually claimed that though?
And yet many fans wanted Ten Hag to stay before a ball was kicked in the final, knowing that the club is a mess and managers need room to make some mistakes (perhaps even big ones) before getting on the right track. His floor brought home an FA cup. Il take it to see what his ceiling is.
Its from the red army official account, so I guess you could look at who's a part of that group to gauge sentiment.
I too felt we needed a manager change around the time Bournemouth draw - we just kept losing/drawing games that we should've just won by playing a bit more pragmatic football / by holding onto leads. Those periods were infuriating, and injuries aside the manager should've also done better, I think we can all agree on that. Even though I've voted ETH out and have not changed my opinion post cup win, I'd be happy for him if the board gives more time - He's a good coach and seems like a good guy, at the end of the day I want any manager/player to succeed here. Just my opinion but I believe he's actually the only manager who will leave (if he leaves) this squad in a better place for the next guy with this young core of players. I think we can get top 4 next season with or without him - so getting rid now when there are just no clear cut replacements might not work out the way we envision this going?
There's all this talk of his lack of charisma, I think he's one of the most charismatic coaches we've had - He just does not give a feck about the media, he has not resorted to throwing a single player under the bus, and the media hates him for it
With Kompany heading to Bayern and Flick going to Barca, I think one of Poch/Tuchel will be around even midway through next season if Erik underperforms again + We'll get to see more of McKenna in the PL.
Are you kidding me ?
Seriously , are you honestly saying you think that when posters have said “I want to keep ETH”, the response has been “I respect your view but must disagree”?
People have absolutely been acting like keeping ETH is “writing next season off” and some suggest pushing the club further away from success.
Relentlessly posting in here all the negative stuff about the season , the XG, the wrong records broken and pretty much insulting anybody who thinks differently to you (they must be rival fans or they are ETH Fanboys) implies you see more then “these fanboys”.
Imagine sacking a guy who won 2 trophies on 2 years for us, and replacing him with a guy who hasn’t won a trophy in 7 years of management in England. (poch)
the final told us 3 things, no.1 he knows what he’s doing tactically. No.2 he clearly has the players on board. No.3 Martinez has been a huge miss all season.
I think you have to take into account the fact that shaw and Martinez have been out nearly all season. Shaw has a fantastic understanding with rashford on the left, they link up really well together and it’s no surprise that when shaw is in the team, rashford is far more effective. He also has the ability to drop in to midfield in attack which dalot and wan bissaka struggle with.
same goes for Martinez, literally rallies the entire team, amazing on the ball, always pushes it forward, calm under pressure, great reading of the game.
if just those two were fit all season we’d be top 4 with another trophy guaranteed. We have no replacement for them in terms of ability.
the final told us 3 things, no.1 he knows what he’s doing tactically. No.2 he clearly has the players on board. No.3 Martinez has been a huge miss all season.
I think you have to take into account the fact that shaw and Martinez have been out nearly all season. Shaw has a fantastic understanding with rashford on the left, they link up really well together and it’s no surprise that when shaw is in the team, rashford is far more effective. He also has the ability to drop in to midfield in attack which dalot and wan bissaka struggle with.
same goes for Martinez, literally rallies the entire team, amazing on the ball, always pushes it forward, calm under pressure, great reading of the game.
if just those two were fit all season we’d be top 4 with another trophy guaranteed. We have no replacement for them in terms of ability.
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I don't believe he had no other option than play Eriksen as the deepest midfielder or Casemiro and Eriksen constantly. The LB situation is completely valid and would not want to throw Amass in. I may have said it emotionally when I had to watch a Wan Bissaka horror show at LB, but I wouldn't want it really.
I mean Casemiro could have quite easily had an injury, considering he wasn't in the squad at all, I wouldn't read that much into it.
I think most people called if Rashford was fit he'd start. These are the sort of things that infuriate people with him, because those obvious tactical choices were completely abandoned to leave us completely open throughout the whole season. This was a problem since gameday 1.
I feel for him with the injuries, but he still has questions to answer and can't shut down debate with it.
I was always in the camp of giving him his last year of the contract, but if not it should be someone like Tuchel who is far more adaptable and would never have us so open. I actually think the likes of De Zerbi would have similar complaints about the squad as it stands.
It was a good move by him to be fair, he's garnered a lot of support when his back was against the wall. I can't imagine it will do him any good in staying at United, but he'll have an easy story to sell to get him a new job.
Was he blind to the problem or did he hope against hope that something would click to move from counter-attacking to attacking dominance? And that he finally recognised that it would not work and just went back to counter-attacking? I really don't know. But INEOS better get some assurance either way before acting.
Why are you trying to ridicule fans who want ETH in when posts like this exist.
Phenomenal post.
I would also like to add that for a lot of the season the back up (or in Martinez’s case the back up to the back up) was out at the same time.
It's weird that the worst manager we have had post fergie seems to have an awful lot of support.
Must be the shiny trophies, the only reason I can think of, for a club of our stature and financial ability we have to be challenging for the league and the champions league that's the standards, granted and any new manager should be afforded time, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest from our league performances over the last two years and our CL performance this year that ETH can produce to our standards.
We can't make chances regularly, we can only defend if we park the bus, and when we do that our chance creation drops to nothing, we can't control games, he has taken the squad backwards and made some horrific signings.
What am I missing, I can not see any reason to give him more time?
Must be the shiny trophies, the only reason I can think of, for a club of our stature and financial ability we have to be challenging for the league and the champions league that's the standards, granted and any new manager should be afforded time, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest from our league performances over the last two years and our CL performance this year that ETH can produce to our standards.
We can't make chances regularly, we can only defend if we park the bus, and when we do that our chance creation drops to nothing, we can't control games, he has taken the squad backwards and made some horrific signings.
What am I missing, I can not see any reason to give him more time?
Completely agree. I think it's interesting that all of the United hating pundits believe that ten Hag has to go. These are the same geniuses who thought Southgate would be good for us.
The issues and problems ten Hag had to face these last two years (Ronaldo; Greenwood; Sancho; the prolonged take-over circus; injury crises; etc, etc.) would have defeated the vast majority of managers. Three finals in two years and two trophies in the face of all of that is a hell of an achievement. I agree with the vast majority of match going fans, he deserves to stay.
I’m not. We cannot expect miracles from him if he doesn’t have his full squad available all the time.
With full team available, he should be close to top 4. He is capable of that.
Have we sacked the fraud yet?
Cheers, dude. He would also be my tip if EtH gets the chop.
They'll need to factor the injury crisis, also. It's there. You may suggest tactics are a bigger factor, and other clubs had many injuries, but they are still a major factor. The primary cause, in my opinion.
As for the replacement, Ineos will know they will need to emphatically improve but since there is no discernible 'cheat code' replacement, they could impugn their own reputation hiring a sleek new coach.
Winning the cup has definitely supplanted Ineos' best laid plans. A new coach is now a much bigger risk. 'Give him time' doesn't work if the predecessor won trophies in both seasons and had a massive injury crisis when doing so.
Nah dude, I'm still here.
We get it, you hate the injuries argument. Give it a rest
Do we think there would have been as big a sway if we'd just beaten say Wolves in the final?
They'll be a big sway if we lose our opening friendly in July. The fickleness is real.
I know this will be unpopular on this forum. I thought a few weeks back it was done, he has to go because he can't get us defensively solid, which I think any manager in the top level should be able to get a team to play compact, we were not doing that. Since then, we have seen new evidence, Arsenal, Newcastle, Brighton, City where he changed slightly and went more compact.
Now, the reason I say he should stay is because we all know, United fans love revisionism. I keep hearing, LVG shouldn't have been sacked, Jose our most successful manager since SAF.
Now, if Ten Hag gets sacked the new manager will be under instant pressure because Ten Hag has won 2 trophies, so the new manager has to get top 4 and win a trophy, otherwise people will just say Ten Hag won a trophy.
With the options we see, Tuchel is the only manager who has the ability to win a trophy and he is not one to build with, if we want a certain way of playing, Tuchel is the opposite, he is more the Jose mould than "possession".
I would keep Ten Hag, with the new structure, let him die on his own sword or turn it around.
Now, the reason I say he should stay is because we all know, United fans love revisionism. I keep hearing, LVG shouldn't have been sacked, Jose our most successful manager since SAF.
Now, if Ten Hag gets sacked the new manager will be under instant pressure because Ten Hag has won 2 trophies, so the new manager has to get top 4 and win a trophy, otherwise people will just say Ten Hag won a trophy.
With the options we see, Tuchel is the only manager who has the ability to win a trophy and he is not one to build with, if we want a certain way of playing, Tuchel is the opposite, he is more the Jose mould than "possession".
I would keep Ten Hag, with the new structure, let him die on his own sword or turn it around.
IMO Guardian jumped on the gun with the sacking story because everyone expected we lose to City.
Now that we provided a shock, naturally his position would be reconsidered. We beat the two best teams during our run so naturally it buys him some time.
If not for the tiniest of offsides, we'd also have crashed out against a lower division side after taking a lead
The worst thing to do when judging managers is to base them on results in domestic cup competitions , cups are a bonus & nice to win but it’s crazy to decide if a manager is good enough to manage United by using cup results. I think INEOS should keep him if they believe that over a period of time (few years) ETH is capable of challenging for the league and that means getting 85+ points. In my opinion he has shown nothing to suggest that but I am fine if INEOS decide that it is the case. They shouldn’t keep him if they think he is the right man for this year. The outlook should be long term top level success which means going for the title & deep CL runs
That's a bit of a myth. He is a possession based coach, he's many things as he is flexible with his tactics. He plays a pressing game, a possession game, will implement different formations etc. But on the topic of possession, he had more possession than both Real (1st leg) and Arsenal (home & away) in their CL ties. Not that it matters, as I'm sure those making the decisions now at United have better knowledge than the average football fan who believes things like this.
naturally, but it is what it is. Doesn't matter if the offside is about an inch or 20 yards. Especially in the VAR era.
Okay, if you think that is a myth. Lets talk about falling out with board at Dortmund, Chelsea, PSG and now sacked from Bayern too.
He is in a league where they won the title and this season nowhere near good enough.
He is clearly not the man to take us forward, going with Tuchel will be a Jose mistake, he just simply wont get us anywhere closer to winning the league than Ten Hag has.
Isn't that exactly what saved SAF from the sack?
It must be the trophies yes, deary me. You do realise trophies are quite important in football right?
Did you miss the game at the weekend, where we controlled the whole game against the best team in the world? We also won one of those meaningless trophies as well but from the sounds of it you're not too fussed about that.
How can you possibly say he's our worst manager since Fergie, that doesn't make sense based on any meaningful metric.
Deserves another year with proper Backroom staff in place is all I’m saying! I just think he deserves another year with Ratcliffe in. Think it would be a massive mistake in sacking him especially with two trophies in two years and be a disgrace if he is sacked.. Club has been a gigantic mess for 10 years. I’ll give it a rest.
I honestly can't believe what I'm seeing on this thread... it seems to be the only corner of the internet where the majority are rabidly ETH out.
Please lets not repeat the mistake. One win against PSG sealed our fate for a couple of years with millions down the drain, let's not do the same thing over yet another one-off win.
We live for the moments, and winning cups is always a good moment, and the QF win against Liverpool is up there with some of my personal favourite moments as a united fan.
But there always a bigger picture and In my opinion the cup wins have papered over some massive cracks when it comes to our manager.
I want the best for the club I support, and with our resources we should be one of the very best, and I don't see ETH on the evidence iv seen as being able to do that.
I can remember those really special moments of winning the league and champions league, that's the shiny trophies I want and believe this club is capable of delivering but not the current manager.
Now please without being presumptuous (if possible) tell me what I'm missing in regards to ETH?
- We've finished outside the top four six times since Fergie retired - What's this got to do with INEOS? We have new ownership now that'll obviously want to pull in another direction.
- We haven't seriously challenged for the league title since Fergie retired - Again we have new ownership on the football side to rectify these issues, this does not mean we stick with a manager that's gravely underachieved this season.
- We've only won five trophies since Fergie retired, with two of those secured by Ten Hag in just two seasons - Do you think this means he can consistently challenge for the league title within the next 3 years? Cup competitions can be a lottery, league campaigns aren't.
- We are the third highest spenders in the last 10 years, with the worst net spend - Again, we are now in the process of building a new structure.
- We've witnessed players downing tools to force managerial changes - I don't buy the "these players" argument for a second, most of this squad is now ETH's.
What's with the dramatics from so many. We finished 8th, no one should be shocked a man united manager finishing 8th is under threat of being sacked.
It's one thing to think it's the wrong decision another to act as if it's a disgrace.
We will, no doubt, be throwing another £150m - 200m on players in this summer who will come into a team comprising Bruno, Rashford, Mainoo, Hoijlund, Dalot, Garnacho etc. Obviously a title challenge is beyond us for now but surely a comfortable top 4 finish, Europa League semi finals or better and deep runs in the domestic cups aren't unrealistic expectations.
Then free flowing football, not being easy to play though and not giving away easy chances - a fluid team on the ball and a solid one off it. I think his ideas are antithesis to this and his default setting has an inherent tactical naivety about it. The smart money, for me, is to move on this summer and start building with a more flexible coach and reassess again after the end of the season.
Deserves another season with the right back room staff in place, as has been previously said.
Premature sackings is solely what stands between SAF and a million other copies of him.
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