Surely if it hinged on whether McKenna took the job then would have been announced Erik is staying once he decided to stay at Ipswich
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Surely if it hinged on whether McKenna took the job then would have been announced Erik is staying once he decided to stay at Ipswich
We hired a mechanic. His job was to fix the engine so we could keep up with the super fast Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal.
He has applied an absolutely beautiful paint job with the FA Cup and we should all appreciate that.
He has also spent 18 months just blindly banging the engine with a spanner and putting us much further behind those faster cars. Doing the opposite of the main job he was hired for.
If a potentially better mechanic is available we should let them take a look and thank him for the pretty paint job.
Edit: This is a brilliant metaphor and you are all welcome.
He has applied an absolutely beautiful paint job with the FA Cup and we should all appreciate that.
He has also spent 18 months just blindly banging the engine with a spanner and putting us much further behind those faster cars. Doing the opposite of the main job he was hired for.
If a potentially better mechanic is available we should let them take a look and thank him for the pretty paint job.
Edit: This is a brilliant metaphor and you are all welcome.
It's how I feel and my personal speculation, it's not a fact.
The ol’ LVG clause.
Agree to disagree. I feel the price is squarely on Arnold and Murtough, and their lack of negotiating talent.
As for the Glazers, who doesn’t love spending money that isn’t theirs?!
I think the price was more situational than down to Arnold and Murtough's negotiating tactics. We came in last minute having already paid 50mil for Martinez. Ajax had already sold Haller and Gravenberch earlier in the window, so their coffers were already full.
The scouts had already put a 25mil value on Antony...
https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/ma...-erik-ten-hag-ajax-gbp86m/blt998ac652617b2c66
What would more than triple that valuation? The insistence from ETH that he got his man.
Regardless of who is as fault on price and i think blame has to be shared, the guy is not good enough to wear a United shirt, so would have been a bad buy at 8mil or 80mil!
The bottom point is so correct. Antony whilst a trier who I don't have any hatred for would not be good enough for Manchester United as a free transfer to make up squad numbers. Insisting he was an important move shows a clear sign of not understanding the different level you are competing at which I think sums up a hell of a lot of the flaws we have seen tactically as well.
Quote from Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian sums it up for me:
And yet the fact remains that much of this season United were dreadful. With the highest wage bill, they finished eighth, their lowest ever position in the Premier League. They had a goal difference of -1. They conceded more shots that any side except Sheffield United, who set a record for goals conceded. For much of the season they seemed incoherent, while Ten Hag made a series of baffling public statements. Perhaps most damningly, the transfers with which he was most closely associated, most notably Antony, were generally dreadful.
You can't mitigate all that by winning the FA Cup and blaming it on injuries. I also wonder if his training and fitness regime could have contributed to the injury situation.
The claim that we didn't have a style of play this season is wrong: we did, it's just that it was terrible. I'm not saying EtH meant it, but he did next to bugger all to fix it.
I don't hate the guy and I took no pleasure in our losses, hoping that it would lead to his sacking. I was behind him ahead of the FA Cup final and he deserves plaudits for the win and finally getting a tune out of the team as a whole. Sentiment seems to be in his favor now, fair enough. He'll have my full support if he's still manager in a month's time but I think keeping him is a mistake.
And yet the fact remains that much of this season United were dreadful. With the highest wage bill, they finished eighth, their lowest ever position in the Premier League. They had a goal difference of -1. They conceded more shots that any side except Sheffield United, who set a record for goals conceded. For much of the season they seemed incoherent, while Ten Hag made a series of baffling public statements. Perhaps most damningly, the transfers with which he was most closely associated, most notably Antony, were generally dreadful.
You can't mitigate all that by winning the FA Cup and blaming it on injuries. I also wonder if his training and fitness regime could have contributed to the injury situation.
The claim that we didn't have a style of play this season is wrong: we did, it's just that it was terrible. I'm not saying EtH meant it, but he did next to bugger all to fix it.
I don't hate the guy and I took no pleasure in our losses, hoping that it would lead to his sacking. I was behind him ahead of the FA Cup final and he deserves plaudits for the win and finally getting a tune out of the team as a whole. Sentiment seems to be in his favor now, fair enough. He'll have my full support if he's still manager in a month's time but I think keeping him is a mistake.
Wouldn't worry as many probably feel indecisive, just hoping that INEOS are the complete opposite
To use your analogy, we are in the garage. The engine is being changed - Arnold and Murtough are gone, INEOS in.
If after an engine change the light on the dash is still suggesting the tyres have a flat, then why not change them?
We clearly had a level of incompetence making footballing decisions. Do we trust the new lot? That is yet to be seen. But if they feel that ETH is not what they are looking for because of a) future plans or b) what they have seen from him, or heard about him during their review, then maybe we need to trust them?
So easy for fans to say, we keep doing the same thing over and over, but people forget that we may for the first time have some half decent people making the decisions.
Let's say they keep him and in 6 months time we are 8th in the league. People will have the knives out for INEOS for not making the decision post this terrible season.
If anything, i think the FA Cup win has shown ETH to be a poor coach for not being able to extract the same level of effort and dedication from his team throughout the season, as well as not being able to set them up in a way to not concede 30+ shots a game, like he has been doing this season.
I think playing City forced his hand, just like it did away to Liverpool. His teams cant play when we are expected to win and retain possession of the ball.
The trouble is many of the fanbase only see the likes of Guardiola/Klopp/Ancelotti as better mechanics. No point in talking about the likes of Simeone/Zidane as completely unrealistic. The general feeling is that any of the candidates on the shortlist are underwhelming
Haha sheesh relax a little. I agree with you. You've missed the bit
@Wumminator
I assume I have been to a fairly significant amount more games than you have in the last 15 years. Just a couple of questions.
1. For plenty of matches this season the match going fans have openly talked about needing a manager that will get us not being dominated by teams on the bottom half of the table regularly. Do they need to give up their tickets next season?
2. Is there a level of weekly performance where you think it's okay to discuss the idea that a new manager might do better or is it a requirement to endlessly support whoever has the job regardless or you are not a "real fan"?
3. If you believe the best thing for the club is something changing then would it not make you seem as though you don't really care about the club if you kept your mouth shut? Are those who attended Glazer protests not real fans cause they weren't fully supporting the club?
The bottom point is really important and I genuinely want to head your thoughts. The Glazers owned the club, we had incredible moments of success under them. We all looked past that and saw the deeper issues and protested. Were we not real fans because we didn't blindly support everything about the club?
I assume I have been to a fairly significant amount more games than you have in the last 15 years. Just a couple of questions.
1. For plenty of matches this season the match going fans have openly talked about needing a manager that will get us not being dominated by teams on the bottom half of the table regularly. Do they need to give up their tickets next season?
2. Is there a level of weekly performance where you think it's okay to discuss the idea that a new manager might do better or is it a requirement to endlessly support whoever has the job regardless or you are not a "real fan"?
3. If you believe the best thing for the club is something changing then would it not make you seem as though you don't really care about the club if you kept your mouth shut? Are those who attended Glazer protests not real fans cause they weren't fully supporting the club?
The bottom point is really important and I genuinely want to head your thoughts. The Glazers owned the club, we had incredible moments of success under them. We all looked past that and saw the deeper issues and protested. Were we not real fans because we didn't blindly support everything about the club?
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That last paragraph sums up a lack of flexibility
There have definitely been times when better "mechanics" were available.
But the last 18 months in the league have literally been our mechanic banging the engine with a spanner and scratching his head as to why the car wouldn't start.
I hate to be unkind but it has literally been that bad.
I completely agree with you, who would be in your list of better mechanics that were available out of interest
It is a hard question to answer because most people don't truly understand what is available to Manchester United and will say "duh he's happy at Aston Villa" when we are Man Utd.
But to give you a quick list.
Emery
Mancini
Inzaghi
Tuchel
I'd feel more confident going into next season with any of the above.
Edit: I'd be interested in the idea of Ange from Spurs. I'd need to think about it more but it just popped to my head.
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Yeah either Inzaghi doesn't fit what INEOS want or maybe have no indication he would leave Inter. Not keen on Mancini but people definitely look down their nose at Tuchel which is mental.
He's close to the top of my list.
If your comment is about Man City then I genuinely see them as irrelevant and would see him coming here as a clear sign of that.
In fact that would somewhat add to the fun.
I imagine we could get Inzaghi and he seems tactically the best of the lot but who knows. Either way Man Utd can attract manager who can make us not look like the second best team on the pitch on a weekly basis.
We're not getting a former City manager who accepted back handers from City's murderous owners and repeatedly disrespected SAF. The club might as well give up on any pretence of dignity. The fans would loath him, for good reason.
Klopp is less egregious, he's a moaner but I actually quite like him. Mancini was genuinely loathsome when he was at City though, I think I'd rather have Benitez and he's below Moyes on my preference list.
Keep Him.
He has a track record of developing talented young players. Has given us 3 cup finals in 2 years along with 2 trophies (1 of which is a smaller trophy but still a trophy).
His negatives is that his style requires specific players to execute and that his transfer record has been dodgy. Transfers will not be a part of his focus going forward with the new structure, and the data analysis should help quantify things on the coaching side.
The reality is that of all of the potential candidates to replace, only Tuchel and Poch have proven things at a larger club. The others carry as much if not more risk than keeping Ten Hag. Sometimes the devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't. The absolute worst case, he doesn't get his contract renewed at the end of this year and the club moves forward.
He has a track record of developing talented young players. Has given us 3 cup finals in 2 years along with 2 trophies (1 of which is a smaller trophy but still a trophy).
His negatives is that his style requires specific players to execute and that his transfer record has been dodgy. Transfers will not be a part of his focus going forward with the new structure, and the data analysis should help quantify things on the coaching side.
The reality is that of all of the potential candidates to replace, only Tuchel and Poch have proven things at a larger club. The others carry as much if not more risk than keeping Ten Hag. Sometimes the devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't. The absolute worst case, he doesn't get his contract renewed at the end of this year and the club moves forward.
Yeah shame Woodward scared him away in 2015
There is something to suggest he’ll do better in the window. It’s called not having much control in it anymore. What do you think the new structures there for?
Over time I've seen Redcafe be more aggressive/knee jerk than the overall fan base. This has been no difference. Unfortunately the majority are wish washy and go where the media lead them.
Ten Hag has had a whole heap of mess thrown at him and he's dealt with it, even if it meant going head to head with big names or big earners. Reminds me of a certain manager we used to have....
Ten Hags the one, or atleast the one for now. Now sign him some new players and sort the medical dept out.
Those are the two priorities. Not changing the coach.
It's not a pleasant place to be these days.
I think the team improved in the last couple go games leading up to the final. Before giving EtH any assurances about his future, if I were INEOS I would ask him if there was a reason why his approach was different or whether it was really players coming back from injuries. Ironically, United seemed to back off with manic suicidal pressing just as our first choice defenders came back. Coincidence or on purpose? I am perplexed.
It was a different situation; apparently he lost the confidence of the players and achieving top four was still a requirement back then. He also had given up on the playing style and moved to more transitional football.
The first point though, losing the players, was why he had to go.
Maybe he exceeded expectations in one or two aspects. But he also fell short in others. The main ones are probably that in the last 15 months, we had very few good matches and that after two years, we don't have much of a platform ahead of the third season. We have no clear style of play and the squad is going to be overhauled.
We're not actually holding out for Southgate are we. Give Ten Hag a few months, if things don't improve, then allow the waistcoat wonder to swoop in?
I don't know if you're attempting humour here, but none of those publications actively supported Corbyn. The Observer, possibly, but I doubt it.
There are other candidates, Tuchel for example is a contender, but all others are underwhelming, including de Zerbi.
If England win Euro 2024 (please God no), Southgate may return as a serious candidate, too (please God no).
We are bit progressing to the dominant attacking football that we want, we have once again regressed to a moments team that has not discernible style of play and we don't score enough goals as a result. The league form has been dire and before people point out the injuries, the signs were there on day one. The midfield set up is just not compact and has cost us the season.
The Cup wins are great but a team of our resources should be able to do win the cups and play well in the league. Getting top four is not hard, even at our worst we were still 9 points off it and that's with some regrettable, record breaking, shocking and sackable results at OT against teams that should be dreading the trip to OT but came in and humiliated us there. Winning the Cup doesn't show the progress we should expect, the CL debacle shows just how far off we are.
Keeping him because of a great Cup run when all the underlying issues show that he has built a bad team, his team looks like the worst coached team around and this is also the best paid team in the league is allowing sentimentality to cloud judgement. It's unprofessional and we should expect better from the higher ups, it shouldn't be a matter of debate - we all watched the season unfold and shouldn't let a Cup win make us forget how horrible we were all season long.
The Cup wins are great but a team of our resources should be able to do win the cups and play well in the league. Getting top four is not hard, even at our worst we were still 9 points off it and that's with some regrettable, record breaking, shocking and sackable results at OT against teams that should be dreading the trip to OT but came in and humiliated us there. Winning the Cup doesn't show the progress we should expect, the CL debacle shows just how far off we are.
Keeping him because of a great Cup run when all the underlying issues show that he has built a bad team, his team looks like the worst coached team around and this is also the best paid team in the league is allowing sentimentality to cloud judgement. It's unprofessional and we should expect better from the higher ups, it shouldn't be a matter of debate - we all watched the season unfold and shouldn't let a Cup win make us forget how horrible we were all season long.
Ah so if you want to keep Ten Hag (or Moyes/Louis/Jose/Ole) it means you're smart then?
My way of looking at it.
We know who he was referring to really..
If he’s here come next season, that will mean we have completely failed as a club and new ownership is just that a new ownership.
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