Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
I personallyt don't think its about accepting mediocrity. If I thought he would have us finish 8th again next year with a negative goal difference etc I would sack him. I dont think that though. I think he'll do better next year, so I want him because I dont think anyone else could be any more likely to come in and do better.
 
Should we take this conversation to the Onana thread? Because that is far more on him than on the manager. We were 2-0 up against Galatasaray and Copenhagen, playing well and the game plan was working and only GK blunders allowed our opponents back into the game.
It's on the manager for seeing his keeper is shaky and starting him again in the next game , because being stubborn is his thing. And also on the manager is the tactical naivety when we were leading.
 
The problem is that the United way has become equal to trusting the manager blindly and hoping it works out. Arteta gets thrown around so often but people ignore that for every Arteta there are tons of managers who get given time & turn out to be absolutely shit. There are also a lot of examples of managers who have gone into clubs and made instant impact. Premier league is very strong at the top now, if you don’t play well then you don’t just drop to 5th/6th but as we found out this season ( Chelsea last season) you can go down much further.
I think most fans would have wanted him to stay if regardless of position he had shown actual footballing progress which made you feel like that with minor tweaks we can build a team capable of getting 70+ points but it looks unlikely right now. Has Ten Hag shown anything to suggest that in 3 years time he can build a 90 point team ? Surely even if we can’t think of winning the league right now but the ultimate aim should be that long term and you have to decide if your manager can lead you there at some point
 
And yet the worst United team I’ve seen in my 38 years
Let's set aside the 89/90 United team that finished the league in 13th position with 48 points and a -1 goal difference. What leads you to believe that the current team is the worst United team compared to the 21/22 team, which finished the season with 58 points and 16 wins and 0 trophy?
 
Let's set aside the 89/90 United team that finished the league in 13th position with 48 points and a -1 goal difference. What leads you to believe that the current team is the worst United team compared to the 21/22 team, which finished the season with 58 points and 16 wins and 0 trophy?

That was achieved by 2 managers? As in a single person didn't oversee that catastrophe.
 
I’m going bed now. The idea I’m Wumming but the people who have over 1,000 posts in a thread are normal and rational individuals is weird to me. Couldn’t be me dedicating all that time to hating someone who has just won us the FA Cup .

I was j/k, man. Don't let others take away those great feeling of us winning FA Cup against all odds.

And no. I don't think anyone here hate EtH.
 
Last edited:
That was achieved by 2 managers? As in a single person didn't oversee that catastrophe.
That makes it even look worse. Typically, when a new manager takes charge of a football club, there's a bounce-back effect. We had two managers and recorded our lowest points total, fewest wins, no trophy and so on.
 
Isn't exactly the opposite of what you're claiming seem to be happening now? Fans, after the FA final win, completely changed their mind along with making a big fuss about keeping ETH on. So now it seems INEOS might be changing the decision they had made before the final?

I might be wrong but I don't see enough fans changing their minds or INEOS caring what fans think in the short term anyway. We all know he won that game by parking the bus and hitting on the break and he can't do that in the league. It was a nice win but completely meaningless in terms of what needs to change and what INEOS are all about long term. But we and they still come to the same problem as before that we can't move forward except very slowly (Ten Hag in) and we mustn't go backward (Tuchel in). We are trapped in football no man's land.

The best thing INEOS can do politically is sacrifice ETH but keep the project going. So we get Poch or (ugh) Frank and a season of grace in which to baby step forward again. Ten Hag ends up as a blood sacrifice on the altar of fan impatience.

Personally I would keep him but I know that's not how the game works. Maybe it should be. Sure he's brought it on himself to some extent but the flaws lie mainly with the club, not him.
 
Last edited:
Let's set aside the 89/90 United team that finished the league in 13th position with 48 points and a -1 goal difference. What leads you to believe that the current team is the worst United team compared to the 21/22 team, which finished the season with 58 points and 16 wins and 0 trophy?

the standard of drivel that has been served up
A manager thinking Antony is worth 80 mil
That playing awb at lb was ever a good idea
Playing Casemiro at cb and not playing two holding midfielders to look after him
Dropping more hefty transfer fees on Mount
Finishing bottom of a easy cl group
Conceding the most amount of goals in a cl group by a pl team
-2 goal diff or whatever it is
When asked “are you worried you’re conceding so many shots” he answered no because we aren’t losing goals….yer great except it’s only a matter of time before we get dicked over
He broke so many poor performance records

I’ll celebrate any cup win. But I’m not putting that success to him, he’s very lucky to have silverware
 
Last edited:
No it doesn't whatsoever. I will repeat glory hunting fans, Only reason they probably started supporting United in the first place because they were winning everything! Two trophies two seasons when we have only won five trophies since Fergie retired and finished outside champions league spots six times and you want Ten Hag sacked, give me a break. Again I will repeat with the not real fans because that is what you are!

Do you mind sharing with us how someone becomes a true United fan such as yourself? I'd love to see the explanation on how glory hunters support a club that hasn't won a league title in 11 years.
 
Maybe being in the minority of people who see football as a form of entertainment and not an actual lifestyle skews my perception here, but the #1 reason I want him gone is because I'm really tired of us being out of any big title challenge by the end of January.

Would a new manager fix this immediately? Probably not, but it might. Whereas keeping Ten Hag around certainly won't.

I have no doubt he'll do better next year. I don't think 8th and a negative GD is a good reflection of his managerial capabilities. But I'm willing to bet my kidney we will be out of any real European and domestic trophy discussion by February and the most we'll have to look forward to for half the aeason will be another possible Mickey Mouse cup run.

I don't think there's any manager that can come in and win us the league on his first season, but I'd like us to at least stay in the conversation for a while. And that's the one thing ETH has never even been close to delivering.
 
The longer it goes the more I feel he is sacked, Tuchel or De Zerbi is in the bag and they're just allowing a bit of time to enjoy the cup win and not be cloak and dagger like last time in how the club handled LVG.

If they are mulling it over still then it leaves not many clubs left for the manager without a job.

That's what I am hoping is the case
 
As soon as I saw the McKenna news, it made me fairly sure Ten Hag is staying.

This is going to be a very interesting summer if we do, what looked unthinkable, and stick by him.

Also big pressure on him right from the off next season. We can use the logic, surely it can't be any worse, but if we can't get these injury issues worked out and the reason for them solved, what's to say we won't have more of the same.

I want to believe, and I hope he turns it around, if we are going to back him.
 
Great Cup win on Saturday. But I can't help how I feel, I've lost faith in him over the last 15 months for the following reasons:

- disastrous signings of overpriced players who were clearly not good enough, were injury prone or that we didn't need; can he seriously be trusted with any future signings or will Ineos remove that responsibility from him completely?

- persisting in picking players who were woefully out of form, for months on end; is he going to do this again?

- setting up a team that consistently conceded the most shots per game of any other team in the league bar Sheffield United (one of the worst PL teams of all time); is he going to do this again?

- some of the worst performances and hammerings I've ever seen from a United team;

- lowest league finish in over 3 decades, 14 league defeats and a negative goal difference.

I've got nothing against the guy personally and if he learns from his mistakes, I'm sure he can still be a good manager for us. But if he gets another season and we see a repeat of what happened this season, then his position really becomes untenable.
 
I just found so little enjoyment in watching us so often last season. I hope we make some drastic changes to the squad, and Ten Hag really tactically wakes up now and get a proper grip of what the PL requires.
 
I personallyt don't think its about accepting mediocrity. If I thought he would have us finish 8th again next year with a negative goal difference etc I would sack him. I dont think that though. I think he'll do better next year, so I want him because I dont think anyone else could be any more likely to come in and do better.

Yeah I'm sure when we finish 6th or 7th the usual suspects will be claiming it was a stellar improvement, proof we're progressing, wanting us to give him a new contract on top of his extension.
 
I have a feeling he will stay now. The FA Cup win has created more of a feel good factor around the club, and we are not ending the season on a low. But more importantly the alternatives are just so underwhelming. Chelsea look set to hire a manager that has never managed in the top flight anywhere, Liverpool got a manager no-one's ever heard of, Bayern are about sign a manager that just got a club relegated, etc.

What are our options? Tuchel who falls out with every club he manages or Pochettino who we know don't have the minerals to take us to the top anyway? There is enough reason for INEOS to keep ETH around. At least he has delivered two trophies, and he actually seems to have a good relationship with the players (Sancho excluded). I also feel like it would have happened already if they were going to fire him.

This is not an endorsement, to be clear - just the way I read the situation as it relates to the decision on ETH.

This Tuchel fallout narrative is starting to get very tiring indeed,would advise you go over to the thread on him and see what the Chelsea fan says on the matter.
 
No it doesn't whatsoever. I will repeat glory hunting fans, Only reason they probably started supporting United in the first place because they were winning everything! Two trophies two seasons when we have only won five trophies since Fergie retired and finished outside champions league spots six times and you want Ten Hag sacked, give me a break. Again I will repeat with the not real fans because that is what you are!
Football is about being entertained. With us having spent 400 million since Ten Hag got here, I don't think we're asking too much when we say the football shouldn't be such painful viewing. If it was just about glory hunting we'd be happy just to have won two trophies.
 
What is the standard of our club? We've struggled to maintain our standards since Fergie retired:
  • We've finished outside the top four six times since Fergie retired.
  • We haven't seriously challenged for the league title since Fergie retired.
  • We've only won five trophies since Fergie retired, with two of those secured by Ten Hag in just two seasons.
  • We are the third highest spenders in the last 10 years, with the worst net spend.
  • We've witnessed players downing tools to force managerial changes.
I can go on and on. It's undeniable that we have fallen spectacularly from our grace since Fergie retired. Let's not kid ourselves. Restoring United to its former glory days will require both time and investment.

I prefer not to speculate on whether Ten Hag will start next season poorly or not, but I will assess him based on the team's results, player development and overall progress.

40 percent of our trophies in 18 percent of the time.
 
The problem is that the United way has become equal to trusting the manager blindly and hoping it works out. Arteta gets thrown around so often but people ignore that for every Arteta there are tons of managers who get given time & turn out to be absolutely shit.
This. He is one of the exceptions. Never managed before and turned Arse into a regular title chasing team, playing excellent football as well. Emery couldnt do it at Arse and this could be a one season time with Villa. Look how Howe has dropped off. Even Klopp was erratic.
TH is 50/50 to get us back into top 4 at best. There has been nothing this season to show we can make that Arteta leap, unless we bring in 4/5 superb players, either promoted from the youth or bought, as this present lot cant do it.
TH could revert back to what he was trying to do with Bruno and Mount and a big hole in the middle, at the start of the new season. The last 2 games of the last season were the exception and thankfully got results, but you cant rely on that style all season long and it seemed a stopgap solution.
 
If it's between Poch, De Zerbi or Tuchel. We would be better off giving Ten Hag next season and see where we go next season, need to get the signings right behind the scene and get rid of the majority of the squad too

I get the concern around the first two in regards to Pochettino post Spurs and De Zerbi with heavy defeats, however find it ridiculous that Tuchel is considered in the same tier as them.
 
If he does stay then he needs to make sure he has some viable tactics ready for next season, even when we have injuries. Can't use the approach from the final in every game. If we stick to the same shite we've seen this season that saw us getting dumped 4-0 by the likes of Palace and dominated in countless other games then that would be a disaster. If he plays a functional midfield and makes sensible decisions then okay, but we've not really seen enough of that.
 
United fans are the worst. Complain for years about us needing a proper football structure. Finally get that pretty much in place. Manager has a really bad season, at which point his backing is at an all time low amongst supporters. Wins an FA Cup by parking the bus. Fans lobby and try to pressure the board/structure to keep him based off one game. You couldn't script it.

And what makes it worse is that Ineos are clearly feeling the pressure. I honestly thought the take over would be an end to the chronic decision making at the club, but it's starting to feel like just the next chapter.

Yeah I understand not signing Arnautovic and bringing back Greenwood due to fan backlash, however if they buckle on sacking him due to winning FA Cup that's a huge red flag against them
 
It's on the manager for seeing his keeper is shaky and starting him again in the next game , because being stubborn is his thing. And also on the manager is the tactical naivety when we were leading.

Could be wrong but from what I know it's not that simple.

My brother knows a Prem footballer really well. City player. He told him a few things is never considered.

Things have changed a lot since Fergie days and player contracts. Player contracts are pages and pages long and go into the smallest of details. Including minutes on the pitch and percentages of games to be played if fit in a season.

We've heard we couldn't or didn't sign certain players because minutes they wanted could not be guaranteed.

Managers simply don't have the power likes of Fergie and Clough had.

Also just wanted to add. Foll saying Amad didn't get as much game time and Antony was played instead. Two reasons here that folk don't go into. 1 it could be simply Antony has specifics in his contract on minutes to be ayed. 2 EtH may have been handling Amad well in terms of how he introduced him and his injuries etc. It's a fine line. Not simply a case of fans wanting something, without knowing the detail
 
Genuine question as a former ST holder myself who was effectively priced out: why do people use this as some measure of authority? Do you know how much moronic shit I would hear in the Stratford End? One bloke who sat behind me used to say that Rooney was a “scouse shithead” and our “worst striker in years”. This was around 2009. Another one said that Fergie was past it and we needed Martin O’Neil when Jose was on top at Chelsea.

A lot of match going fans are on a different planet. I couldn’t care less what they think IF we are using that as some appeal to authority.

I don't, but one poster used his match going status to belittle another poster and tried to make out that we're all behind him because we "get it". I was just backing up the other poster by saying that isn't the case at all. And I agree, our fans are clueless at times. I also have memories of some fans sat near to me at OT giving Ronaldo pelters all game when he was only 18/19 years old.
 
‘Accepting mediocrity’ implies that those who back the manager are happy with the way this season has gone, and NOBODY is happy with 8th and a negative goal difference but some can see there are extenuating circumstances that explain (not excuse) why this season has been the way it has. And not just injuries either, although that has been extreme. Others are hit headed and reactionary and think changing the manager for an 8th time in 11 years will be the silver bullet to solve all our woes and it’s stupid. It hasn’t worked the other 7 times, but there is a refusal to accept that the club might have bigger problems. It’s naive in the extreme.
For what it’s worth, I really believe ‘insults’ like top red are childish and pathetic and only serve to demonstrate how childish and petty this fanbase can be.
Well said, one of the biggest issues I see here is that for many posters everything is black and white. Nothing is ever black and white in football, never has been and never will be
 
I had hopes we’d finally have a decision tonight.

Time to just lurk the thread for a few more days then.

Unfortunately can see things going a bit quiet this week when reliable journos talk about there possibly being no time limit over season review
 
You want me to explain why someone with better pedigree gets afforded more time and leeway than a relatively unknown/bum/potentially chancer? :confused:

are we at the stage where we're starting to muddy Ferguson's achievements to start propping up Ten Hag? Or is this just a weird repackaging of "time + underperforming = Ferguson success" equation that people want to believe in?

So you can't answer the question then ? I expected as much .

Who do you want as manager ?

How much time does he need ?

What if he starts off better than Saf ,did but not better than the ' nobody / bum / chancer " ' eth ( your words ) that he replaced ?

If that happens , Where are you going to go looking for your reason , to grant him more time ?

Nobody is muddying the waters on Saf . What he achieved is there for eternity .
His early years and troubles in the United job are part of his journey , they are fact .

They aren't something to be erased from history by sensitive souls like yourself . They are a record of what it took . The hard work , the patience , the perseverance , the good fortune . A reference , the only real reference we've got that is relevant to us..
 
Last edited:
No it doesn't whatsoever. I will repeat glory hunting fans, Only reason they probably started supporting United in the first place because they were winning everything! Two trophies two seasons when we have only won five trophies since Fergie retired and finished outside champions league spots six times and you want Ten Hag sacked, give me a break. Again I will repeat with the not real fans because that is what you are!
Do you seriously think that glory-hunting fans are still fans? Because there's not a whole lot of glory been going on in the last decade.

As a matter of interest, what, in your opinion, is a real fan? I'm fairly confident that your description won't match mine!
 
If your car's engine is shot and it won't drive properly, changing the tires repeatedly is not going to help. It's possible that it also needs new tires, but until you fix the engine, it'll be impossible to tell what else needs to be done. Blaming the tires is irrational.

For eleven years now, absolutely every manager has had all the same problems. What's more likely: that each and every one of them happened to have the exact same personal flaws, or that there are issues at the club that cause these problems no matter who the manager is?

When ETH first started, the improvements were significant and immediate. Then as time wore on and the nature of the club began to have its effect on his work, everything fell apart. On top of that, he was hit by a double-whammy of unbelievable injuries, including losing most of our defense for practically the entire season, and would-be key players clearly giving up the ghost (Rashford, Sancho) or having age catch up with them (Casemiro, Eriksen).

And somehow, half our fans decided that this was all Erik's fault.
 
After McKenna has decided to stay, it's an easy decision in my view. So I say preach.



I don't discount what they say because they're at ESPN, I discount it because it's the same agenda throughout. I'll still engage in debate about potential manager replacements, mind, and I don't see Erik ten Hag as amazing or clueless, so there's a lot of nuance and context.

I don't think he used the FA Cup final to say this is what he can do with a full squad at all. I think it was a tailor made tactical plan that worked to absolute perfection. And I suspect that even after a good summer window and decent availability of key players over the course of another season that would be a similar tactical plan against them again, because they are infinitely superior as a possession side against anyone else really.

I've said numerous times on here, as well as others, that Martinez is absolutely fundamental to the way we set up. You can say that's not a healthy position to be in, but he took over a team that was radically different from a team suited to his style of play. And it would have been that way for most promising managers at the time too. He more or less made two major calls in rectifying that by not pandering to Ronnie who then had a fit, and he sold Dave who needed to go. He also tried to help Sancho find his way, with incredible patience, but Sancho is not mature enough to appreciate it.

Last summer was pretty shite in terms of squad building as the club had briefed three times the players available and their desired prices for each, and then couldn't shift them which is far from an ideal situation to be in in terms of the dressing room. Thankfully, Maguire and McTominay still performed to their level this season, but I think the former doesn't suit our tactics at all and the latter is just not good enough. Can't complain about their professionalism. Some player or players did brief against the media a few times this season using that horrendous piece of shit Luckhurst and the media was really on Erik's case throughout this season. You can add the Greenwood situation and the whole uncertainty of the takeover, which affects not just Erik, but the playing staff, the coaching staff, and everyone at the club. So quite tumultuous really.

And we had that stupid money-grab pre-season which I sincerely hope is a thing of the past, as it set us back, instead of getting us ready. A Glazer special.

The midfield situation is a valid criticism and I had the same criticism, and likely most if not all supporters. He chose to play the percentages thinking this was the best way to not revert to a low block and play on the counter which was maybe the most pragmatic solution given we had Shaw, Martinez, a fit Casemiro missing, a Bruno in poor form, a lazy Rashford, no left back, a rapidly ageing Eriksen, an injured all season Mount, and only one striker, who was missing through injury twice during the season and at the start of the season.

But I feel the comparison with other clubs and injuries is a bit misguided. Chelsea had a player who - like Bruno under Ole - singlehandedly dragged them on. They also have more depth than we have. Arsenal had hardly any major injuries. Did Liverpool struggle with a similar amount of injuries to key players all season? I didn't notice (don't watch them unless we're playing them). City obviously have the best manager around and are so well drilled over years and years that they can carry quite a few injuries. I don't think they suffered anywhere close to what we did. Villa, who obviously have a very good manager but much lower expectations, nowhere near the same scrutiny, did they struggle with a similar amount of injuries to key players? Granted, Newcastle did suffer some significant injuries, and it showed in their results and performances over the season.

Onana had a mare for the first few months, something that was impossible to foresee given his career to date, but he's coming good now. The CL fiasco was both due to his poor performances and in Denmark we were much the better side until that Rashford red card (still think that was harsh).

To me the question now isn't whether it would make sense to keep ETH and he has free rein to do as he pleases, it's do we keep ETH with a new structure in place. He won't be identifying the talent, he'll be greatly supported by first in class people whose role is ensuring the cohesion of all levels of our footballing teams, and the implementation of a long-term vision.

Did you know we tried to sign a forward in January but couldn't due to FFP? He was having to ensure Hojlund stayed fit for as long as possible, whilst having a woefully out of form Rashford. I mean, there are so many factors for this season being the way it was. And yet, we are in the Europa now and won the FA Cup against the best team on the planet.

For me, the right way to go about this is giving him a fresh contract with (unpublicised) clauses that require a certain minimums to be met, which is a get out of jail free card should things not progress, meanwhile McKenna waits in the wings should the call come. Puchel and Poch can continue their plateauing elsewhere and Thomas Frank can keep dreaming.

Puchel, come on he deserves a bit more respect
 
Ive flipped a couple of times now. I have been firmly in the ETH out gang and called him a clown etc wanting him gone right away but no I find myself doing the ultimate knee jerk and thinking its ok if he stays. I thought we played some really nice stuff, defended with real discipline and thought he got things tactically spot on. On top of that i liked how the players reacted to him. One other thing is that out of those being touted as a possible replacement none of them stand out as absolute must haves so i have found myself wavering and flip flopping.
Ultimately I just dont think I know and am stuck in nowhere land. If he stays I wont be too bothered, if he goes I wont be too bothered. Hopeless on my part really.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.