Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JPRouve said:
They are taking a big risk in most scenario including if they decide to keep ETH. The only thing that matter is whether they strongly believe in their decision and if that decision is based on logic.
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True. ETH is also a risk considering the season performance. But he atleast has the support of dressing room.
My point was, if we bring a serial winner, then yes it would seem like less of a risk. Zebri is a bigger risk than keeping ETH in my opinion
 
Sarni said:
You don’t choose to keep a manager with a view of sacking him 2-3 months later, it just disrupts the team even further and doesn’t give him the right situation to work in anyway. If you keep him it’s because you genuinely believe he’s the man to take you forward.

If we keep him we have to give him a new contract and ensure him of long term job security.
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Yeah exactly.
 
adexkola said:
Ah fair enough

Obviously if there was a Klopp v2 out there we'd all volunteer to drive EtH to the airport. And that would apply even if EtH finished 4th this season AND won a cup against City. He's not irreplaceable.
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No worries. I'm personally of the belief that's he's easier to replace than just by the "Klopp v2" tier of managers, if that makes sense. The perception many of our fans have of Ten Hag is not reflected in his achievements nor the football United has played under him. We've been largely bad, sometimes tragic, under him, and not just this season. Up until Saturday, his resume was highly inflated by a CL semi-final run, and in my opinion, the FA Cup is now the biggest achievement in his CV (all due respect Eredivisie).

Ultimately, I don't think you underperform in the manner that he has, at any other serious institution, and retains his job. Fear of change shouldn't be a/the deciding factor in opting to remain with something that's been proven bad - all because "the alternatives might not pan out better". Ten Hag is very much still an unproven/upcoming manager. It would be OK to replace him with another unproven/upcoming manager, imo.
 
pocco said:
Which one?
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City one has virtually no chance of happening. Chelsea I could see happening at some point because almost every manager will end up working there eventually, with how high their manager turnover is.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Wtf is he expected to win ?
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What sort of question is that? What do you expect a manager of Manchester United to do? What is the standard we should be setting? The criteria was laid down by Gill many years ago, not that the club has stuck to it. Point is, if we are sacking Ten Hag, we should be shopping for a manager with a proven track record in Europe and with a cv that includes top honours, and there aren't too many about. If you're happy to hire De Zerbi, that's your opinion. For me, we should be looking for someone with a bit more gravitas.
 
I actually feel a bit sorry on Ten Hag,

Two seasons, two trophies and another final, and has dealt with a ridiculous amount of injuries.
In the weeks before we got him, I think the majority of the fan base wanted him.

Played good football, beating teams in the champions league he probably shouldn’t have.
Everything pointed towards him being a very good choice for us.

My heart says keep him, but my head says he needs to go.

Bad signings, bad season, bad goal difference and two years on, I’m still figuring out what style of football he means to play.

Ange walked into Tottenham and it was clear what he wanted from his team, same when Klopp took over.

Just look at our last 7 or 8 matches. Our possession has been terrible, ironically having more against Arsenal. It’s just not the type of football I want to dedicated another season to watching
 
I suspect they are just using the end of season review to buy time until they confirm the new manager. They’ll want to announce the replacement straight away after sacking Ten Hag.
 
DJ_21 said:
Because he’s won 2 trophies in 2 years. That’s more than Arteta and Klopp won in their first 2 years. We could bring someone els in that doesn’t win a trophy for 3 years and then the majority people who want him sacked will want him back.
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I can’t refute that. However, last year’s league cup was immensely easy up until the final and the team kind of fell off a cliff after that final. We have to ask ourselves if we want to be a team that occasionally fares well in the domestic cups or a team that can challenge for more. But, I agree, the one thing that could potentially swing the pendulum in EtH’s favour are the trophies.
 
glazed said:
I'm sure he said quite a lot but what could he do about it? But of course they did not sit deep all the time - it's silly to polarise this into absurd parodies. What actually happened was they tended to sit too deep during defensive phases which left midfield too empty as the attackers were too far up field to help. This prevented a high press from functioning efficiently. During attacks they did often push up but then got caught on the break too easily by quick attackers. Over the course of the game these marginal errors turned into goals and then collapses.
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What could he do about it?

Tell them not to do it for a start. If they do it again drop them. How else would a manager deal with not only a player but an entire squad mutiny.

But having said that the scenario is highly unlikely. They've been sitting so deep all season because that's what they've been told to do. The front 5 are so high up the pitch because thats also what they've been told to do.

If what you were saying was actually true he'd need to be sacked anyway, if he can't assert any authority of his own squad. A squad the majority of whom are his signings and promotions.
 
I'm flying a bit close to the sun here and I haven't posted everything I've heard here.

I'll just say this.

I'm getting my information from two places. Both very close to INEOS just very random they don't know each other and they've never met. One is a family friend a few people removed and another os one of my best mates.

First is basically as good as working in INEOS on this venture second is someone who hangs around alot of INEOS people as close mates and colleagues.

I was told a long time ago basically back in march/Feb they will sack him no matter what as it's a key part of the project and he's just not their guy.

I asked again in May the second one says he's heard alot and they aren't impressed with ten hag.

Today I have heard that he's going to be sacked and who they want in, which I'm sure you can all guess based on the Chelsea news etc.

Now he was right on INEOS (family friend) back last year in March/April and said it was happening and in October- it got delayed to December so benefit of the doubt things can change but that's very specific so far ahead of time.

Now on today's news he says its done to the point there's no going back.

So keep an eye out.
 
Escobar said:
Professional approach. There is no need to rush anything, so better take the time for an in depth analysis
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Not sure why the analysis starts now and couldn’t have been done last week it’s 8 days since the league finished and if the fa cup has any baring on his future then maybe the ownership should take a look at themselves because that’s piss poor planning
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
I'm flying a bit close to the sun here and I haven't posted everything I've heard here.

I'll just say this.

I'm getting my information from two places. Both very close to INEOS just very random they don't know each other and they've never met. One is a family friend a few people removed and another os one of my best mates.

First is basically as good as working in INEOS on this venture second is someone who hangs around alot of INEOS people as close mates and colleagues.

I was told a long time ago basically back in march/Feb they will sack him no matter what as it's a key part of the project and he's just not their guy.

I asked again in May the second one says he's heard alot and they aren't impressed with ten hag.

Today I have heard that he's going to be sacked and who they want in, which I'm sure you can all guess based on the Chelsea news etc.

Now he was right on INEOS (family friend) back last year in March/April and said it was happening and in October- it got delayed to December so benefit of the doubt things can change but that's very specific so far ahead of time.

Now on today's news he says its done to the point there's no going back.

So keep an eye out.
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We all know he's getting sacked since last week. But thanks for sharing anyway.
 
Scandi Red said:
911, what's your emergency?
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Hi, there's a liar on the internet and I want someone to raid his house please. I mean, he isn't actually a liar because his sources check out but he's got this one wrong - hello?
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
I'm flying a bit close to the sun here and I haven't posted everything I've heard here.

I'll just say this.

I'm getting my information from two places. Both very close to INEOS just very random they don't know each other and they've never met. One is a family friend a few people removed and another os one of my best mates.

First is basically as good as working in INEOS on this venture second is someone who hangs around alot of INEOS people as close mates and colleagues.

I was told a long time ago basically back in march/Feb they will sack him no matter what as it's a key part of the project and he's just not their guy.

I asked again in May the second one says he's heard alot and they aren't impressed with ten hag.

Today I have heard that he's going to be sacked and who they want in, which I'm sure you can all guess based on the Chelsea news etc.

Now he was right on INEOS (family friend) back last year in March/April and said it was happening and in October- it got delayed to December so benefit of the doubt things can change but that's very specific so far ahead of time.

Now on today's news he says its done to the point there's no going back.

So keep an eye out.
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Cheers.
 
pratyush_utd said:
True. ETH is also a risk considering the season performance. But he atleast has the support of dressing room.
My point was, if we bring a serial winner, then yes it would seem like less of a risk. Zebri is a bigger risk than keeping ETH in my opinion
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It's not that significant, new managers generally have the support or are given the benefit of doubts by the dressing room. Also even a serial winner brings risk because you welcome them into a different environment and the risk isn't actually lessened by their CV, serial winners are generally successful in a limited amount of clubs for a limited amount of time. At the moment the only manager that can point to his resume and his ability to work nearly everywhere is Ancelotti and even then he has Everton, Napoli and to a lesser extent Bayern to explain.

And the be clear my point is relevant for both sides. There is a big risk when it comes to keeping ETH because managers generally don't comeback from that level of underperformance but it's not impossible and there is a risk with any prospective head coach whether he is young, experienced, already successful or on an ascending trajectory because a club like United ambition to be at the very top of World Football and only a few head coaches are actually able to lead a team that high at any given time. That's why I'm firmly on the fence when it comes to all these polls there is a case for keeping ETH as a placeholder until INEOS find someone they believe in(if that person isn't ETH himself) and there is a case for trying to find the new SAF/Klopp/Guardiola/Mourinho and those are generally young managers that lack lengthy track records.
 
The choice is not between sacking or keeping him. It is between sacking or extending him. He will be undermined if his contract is not renewed beyond the remaining year and this would be then feed negatively into the morale of the squad.
 
Does anyone really believe that they are doing the end of season review!! I am 100% sure that the review was done and the decision is take. They are letting time pass and the euphoria of the FA cup to go before announcing he is gone
 
Castia said:
Not sure why the analysis starts now and couldn’t have been done last week it’s 8 days since the league finished and if the fa cup has any baring on his future then maybe the ownership should take a look at themselves because that’s piss poor planning
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To let things cool off after the final and give themselves time to include the FA Cup win/loss in their process maybe. Most likely they've already done their analysis, whatever they've decided I doubt the Final will have had much impact.

I don't know what they're going to do, but I do imagine if he was staying they'd have announced it already. For a start if his job wasn't in danger there probably wouldn't even be a formal season review being spoken about in the press.
 
altodevil said:
Arguably most injury-ridden season in recent memory.
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True, but does that excuse everything? We've had a lot of injuries, but the only 2 dead-on starters to miss more than 30% of the season (I think?) are Shaw and Martinez. We have for the most part had 8 starters available, with certain games being a bit more brutal than that obviously.

The even bigger issue is how starters like Casemiro and Rashford have let us down big time. And Onana more or less single-handedly killed our CL campaign too. And then there's the insistence on playing Antony (worst post Fergie signing) over Amad for some reason.

It's not like it's been all bad luck either. The injuries forced an early promotion to Mainoo and that turned out great. Garnacho has also stepped out of Rashford and Antony's shadow. Dalot was a starter already so his ascent was kind of inevitable, but it's great timing that our best or second best player stepped up in defense, which is where we've had the most injuries.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Hi, there's a liar on the internet and I want someone to raid his house please. I mean, he isn't actually a liar because his sources check out but he's got this one wrong - hello?
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We'll send a patrol car right away, miss!
 
Scandi Red said:
True, but does that excuse everything? We've had a lot of injuries, but the only 2 dead-on starters to miss more than 30% of the season (I think?) are Shaw and Martinez. We have for the most part had 7 or 8 starters available, with certain games being a bit more brutal than that obviously.

The even bigger issue is how starters like Casemiro and Rashford have let us down big time. And Onana more or less single-handedly killed our CL campaign too. And then there's the insistence on playing Antony (worst post Fergie signing) over Amad for some reason.

It's not like it's been all bad luck either. The injuries forced an early promotion to Mainoo and that turned out great. Garnacho has also stepped out of Rashford and Antony's shadow. Dalot was a starter already so his ascent was kind of inevitable, but it's great timing that our best or second best player stepped up in defense, which is where we've had the most injuries.
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Claiming Antony is our worst post Fergie signing is frankly ridiculous, we may have paid too much for him but he did ok last season scoring some important goals but has struggled this season as his head hasnt been fully on his game due to the issues that he's been having in his personal life.
 
That Brentford game was a real low point, they had their first choice back four out, we couldn't get a shot for most of the game, sneaked a goal in injury time and concede moments later. We lost top 4 getting beat by Fulham at home in my view, that was our level and proved to pan out. Very few good performances for the whole season.

Thing is he shown to be a winner but has gone down a wrong path with Murtough last season and still left to pretty much his own devices and also shown the last few games to switch to a very well implemented plan to nullify City. He could do better if supported with fitness coaches, top recruitment which is a 24/7 job and plan to play with the ball. His last Ajax team did beat Amorim's team very well, won all six CL games with good stats, it's not just some fanciful flight from 2019 and De Jong.

I see both ETH and Tuchel as winners, cup runs but also rather dry personalities, good technical coaches. I'd like to see Tuchel here but as well he lost to Leicester in the cup, had a poor league campaign with a dominant Bayern where Dortmund did everything for daddy Bayern to win on 71 points, perhaps would be the equivalent of finishing the PL with 78 points and having the second team gifting it, we won't have that luxury here.

He also lost the next league and went out of their cup. Probably Tuchel does better than ETH in the same scenario end of last season and sets up better overall, an upgrade of sorts. Both have beat city in a cup final, Tuchel has won the CL and got to multiple finals and semi finals. Both adaptable winning coaches, need some brilliant transfers to help and a overall plan which seems to be in place now. I do like his first 12 months at Chelsea, before the Russia thing happened, had a fantastic second half and first half of the next season of top table form before things changed out of his hands.

McKenna De Zerbi offer a bold move to entertain and grow into something special. I'd be happy with ETH staying under the new people or a change.
 
Escobar said:
Professional approach. There is no need to rush anything, so better take the time for an in depth analysis
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Not sure I can agree with you. What have they need doing for the last few months. If a review is over the last 2 years of ETH - the bulk of the consideration should be done and dusted. They outcome of some dead rubber league games and a cup final with only 2 possible outcomes to consider are not really sufficient grounds for holding off all consideration until the final whistle blows.

As a result, our gaffer is off getting pissed and if I was him I would be seething …being left in limbo and in such a publicly humiliating situation….he should/could be buzzing and plotting and planning etc. the whole pissing about with Ashworth is another shit show. Every summer we act the bollox and end up panicking.

if ever we needed one summer to go smoothly…it’s this one…with no Klopp next year and no Pep the following year. We need to start being more efficient full stop.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Claiming Antony is our worst post Fergie signing is frankly ridiculous
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It really isn't. You got to factor in price and playtime. Van De Beek is worse for instance, but he was half the price or something and has barely played (hence not done any real damage).

But this is the Ten Hag thread.
 
SirBillNic said:
Well 2 things i would say about that: first, it was a different City team then - very good team still but not really the best in the world juggernaut they've become more recently. Second, were any of Ole's performances against City as good as the one yesterday regardless of scoreline? I don't remember many of the games personally but just looking at the formations in those games they look like park the bus tactics. Which is fine but also requires some luck to win, whereas I though United were the better team in that FA cup final.

One-off games are representative of what they are, no more no less. You need to be good at one-off games to win knockout competitions but they're far less determinative in league campaigns. I think Ten Hag has deficiencies in league competition but obviously he can get the tactics right for big knockout cup games.
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Can he? We got spanked by Sevilla in EL last season, we were a gnats cock away from being dumped out by Coventry in the most ridiculous of circumstances, we needed a last minute goal against Forest, and we were humiliated in the CL this season. Those aren't indicators of a man that thrives in cup competitions.
 
Scandi Red said:
Review of the season:

- Worst CL campaign in the club's history
- (Arguably) the worst PL campaign post Fergie
- A very sweet FA cup win
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I'd imagine it won't really be about ETH or the current season in isolation at all.

Will be transfer targets, lines of reporting etc. carrington upgrades, player/staff contracts, all the nitty gritty boring stuff we don't talk about as they go into their first full season. The head coach I'd say is the least important thing unless you're really pushing to get over the line (you could have an average coach with good recruitment and win things but you can't win things with a good coach and crap recruitment).
 
Scandi Red said:
It really isn't. You got to factor in price and playtime. Van De Beek is worse for instance, but he was half the price or something and has barely played (hence not done any real damage).

But this is the Ten Hag thread.
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Hardly playing isn't a positive. If anything it's indicative of just how bad he was. Antony has at least scored important goals and can put a shift in. De Berk had absolutely nothing.
 
Scandi Red said:
Review of the season:

- Worst CL campaign in the club's history
- (Arguably) the worst PL campaign post Fergie
- A very sweet FA cup win
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Basically this.
As sweet as the FA cup is, there were tens of games that were bitter and disappointing.
And as much as I loved his appointment 2 years ago and hoped he will be "the man", he surely isn't.
I would prefer Xavi in his place but my prediction is De Zerbi.
 
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