Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Chipper]

Just seen a video of a fan with ten hag out printed on his shirt at the game. Wtf is wrong with people.

Saw that earlier too. Out of order, and the lad having a go at him was spot on to do that even though I want him out as well.

I just hope the whole thing wasn't a stunt. The one shouting at him is some sort of social media influencer and was filming at the match.

 

[McFred]

Poor in training, poor at managing injuries, poor at tactics and on and on and on. He's also been in the job almost 2 years and has been backed more than any other manager we've had (to the tune of £400m+). He is not qualified for the job and deserves no more time "to see if it works out". He is absolutely useless and has us in relegation form, Moyes was sacked for less than this. So too LvG, Jose and Ole.

It absolutely blows my mind how people are still willing to give the statically worst manager we've ever had "one more season". Standards are literally in the toilet.

I must have missed what it was Moyes did that was more than ETH achieved, and what makes him statistically the worst manager we’ve ever had?

3 finals, 2 trophies in 2 years, 3rd in his first season. European football achieved this year with a squad ravaged by injuries to his best players, no CBs or LB and an untried kid up front, while carnage unfolded above him with the takeover. 35+ consecutive starts for Garnacho (ahead of his own signing Antony, because he has the cop on to drop people not playing well). Mainoo promoted to be a mainstay. There’s enough about this man’s character to suggest he can still be a successful Utd manager, with the right recruitment (taken out of his hands).

 

[Hal9000]

Rather keep ETH then Poch or Frank.

 

[Salford_Red83]

Some of those stats are shocking, one of our worst seasons since Fergie. The change of support and amnesia since the cup final is the definition of knee jerk.

It honestly blows my mind how people are just like "let him cook".

Nah, he's had 2 years and £400m+ and we are significantly worse than when he took over.

Its not just this season, we were looking particularly bad the previous season since just before the league cup final.

Also, 7-0 defeat v Liverpool should be a stackable offence.

 

[sillwuka]

If they'd already decided to sack him, it still makes sense to wait a few days / a week for obvious reasons.

Many fans are high from the result yesterday and many fans who wanted him gone yesterday morning want him to stay as of today. But in a few days when they come to look at the season as a whole and not just through the prism of the FA Cup win, they'll revert back to their original opinion, albeit not holding the opinion as passionately as they did before.

INEOS will obviously know this and will let the dust settle before making an announcement and pulling the trigger.

Couldn't have said it better

 

[TheRedHearted]

Yes, there was an historic injury crisis - but those injuries didn’t happen in vacuum; they were the result of his training regimen, his coaching, and his in game tactics (mostly- some were contact injuries in games). With all the data science and medical metrics it was obvious when players were overtraining. The muscle injuries were to be expected.

I’m more concerned with Ten Hag’s disastrous recruitment of players like Malacia, Antony, Onana, and his stubbornly devotion to them. He didn’t alter tactics to suit the personnel available, and he never figured out a way for attacking patterns to result in predictable chances created; everything was Bruno pulling off an outrageous assist.

I never saw Ten Hag adapt or adjust our approach to counter something in a game. Everything was delayed and reactive. Maybe he can’t say in a presser that we were poor, but him repeatedly assuring everyone we played as hoped - when we were fecking dire - is alarming.

I agree about responses to games but how could you blame it all on him? Are you telling me the physio team doesn’t have any input on training

 

[stevoc]

Nobody's saying that. But he was given time. And I'm absolutely convinced that many if not all of the moaning wankers on here who adamantly want Ten Hag out now would've adamantly wanted Fergie out from 1988-1991.

So if someone think's Ten Hag should be replaced they're a wanker?

Interesting.

 

[Irwin99]

I think neither ETH or LVG had worked in England before and perhaps both underestimated the PL and the media.

With the other three though they knew the PL and English media well. But I wouldn't say any of them got an easier ride, perhaps just dealt with it better.

No actually, I think that's definitely it. You could see LvG developed an absolute contempt for the media during his second season in particular- I always remember him calling that Sun journalist "You, fatman!". Legend!

 

[Salford_Red83]

I must have missed what it was Moyes did that was more than ETH achieved, and what makes him statistically the worst manager we’ve ever had?

3 finals, 2 trophies in 2 years, 3rd in his first season. European football achieved this year with a squad ravaged by injuries to his best players, no CBs or LB and an untried kid up front, while carnage unfolded above him with the takeover. 35+ consecutive starts for Garnacho (ahead of his own signing Antony, because he has the cop on to drop people not playing well). Mainoo promoted to be a mainstay. There’s enough about this man’s character to suggest he can still be a successful Utd manager, with the right recruitment (taken out of his hands).

Just gonna ignore this season's statistics eh?

 

[Lash]

People saying they'll be happy to let McKenna build something will be shown up if we finished 8th under him. The knives would be firmly out.

Yep, it would turn quick. The Hojlund thread is a great example. I think McKenna will be successful for what it's worth, but I don't get where this blind faith comes from he'll make the jump or the sudden patience with manager to build a team for longer than 2 seasons.

 

[Zumbi]

I must have missed what it was Moyes did that was more than ETH achieved, and what makes him statistically the worst manager we’ve ever had?

3 finals, 2 trophies in 2 years, 3rd in his first season. European football achieved this year with a squad ravaged by injuries to his best players, no CBs or LB and an untried kid up front, while carnage unfolded above him with the takeover. 35+ consecutive starts for Garnacho (ahead of his own signing Antony, because he has the cop on to drop people not playing well). Mainoo promoted to be a mainstay. There’s enough about this man’s character to suggest he can still be a successful Utd manager, with the right recruitment (taken out of his hands).

As long as we can also take the coaching, team selection, tactics and in game management out of his hands then sure, he might prove to be a success.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

and Eric will learn. I am just lost of words for people looking down on Eric because we had 27% possession against city (but Real Madrid and Ancelotti can do it).

The context is obviously different in that RM's 'standard' way of playing works, as seen by their league title with 95 points and +61 GD as well as the league/CL double they won two years ago, so playing differently is just adding a tool to the arsenal. Whereas United's 'standard' way of playing didn't work this season, as seen by their league position, low GD, and poor CL campaign. People are wondering whether the one tool is enough.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yep, it would turn quick. The Hojlund thread is a great example. I think McKenna will be successful for what it's worth, but I don't get where this blind faith comes from he'll make the jump or the sudden patience with manager to build a team for longer than 2 seasons.

Given the listed options, I would be inclined to go with McKenna. But, I also think it could go tits up.

 

[Atheist]

Have we forgotten that our bad form/performances and results stretches back to March of last year and something that didn't just start this season? Somehow we’ve been repeatedly told it was only this season and due to injuries, conveniently used as a catch all excuse for a litany of dreadful performances even across average and mediocre opponents.

 

[McFred]

Yes, there was an historic injury crisis - but those injuries didn’t happen in vacuum; they were the result of his training regimen, his coaching, and his in game tactics (mostly- some were contact injuries in games). With all the data science and medical metrics it was obvious when players were overtraining. The muscle injuries were to be expected.

How do you know this - Did you see this data? Are you better qualified to interpret the medical metrics and data than Utds staff and the manager? Have you sight of the training regimen and can you let us know what it was that caused the injuries please?

 

[zenith]

The alternatives to ETH are very limited at this point. Would rather give him another year under the new structure and that would also happen to be the last year of his contract.

 

[McFred]

Just gonna ignore this season's statistics eh?

I would agree with ETHs assessment of this season as shit. But I’m willing to take into account the context and realities of this season, which you are seemingly happy to ignore.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

I want to be a cardiothoracic surgeon but I don't have the training for it, oh well best thing to do is just go for it... doing something just because without the right preparation is idiocy, I don't generally like quotes for quotes sake but Ben Franklin aptly said "By failing to prepare you are preparing to fail." you can pretty much apply that to anything

You can build out an analogy for anything as long as it fits your case. I’m just taking into account not the last 1 year but the past 10 years.

It is obviously difficult to expect a concrete logic from a crowd due to 1000 different opinions, but i think the fan base as critical as it is, needs to have a single opinion and sticking to a general idea of what progress would look like in reality.

 

[pocco]

Well, this is from 1989:

I'm not even "Ten Hag in" necessarily. The season's obviously been incredibly shite. I'm just not sure if we should lay most of the blame for that at his feet, even if he has clearly made mistakes.

Yeah that's my only knowledge of the level of criticism he faced, that guy with the banner. I've never really heard what the majority were saying with regards to Fergie.

Regarding the blame against ETH, he's responsible for the signings to whatever extent, the naive tactics, some poor in game management, the delusional guff he's spouted all season. He has to take some responsibility for either lack of performance from certain players or choosing to keep playing them for large periods anyway. There's also others who have done well recently who he barely gave a chance to all season. They're the things I think he's responsible or partly responsible for and it's the majority of his remit really.

 

[McFred]

As long as we can also take the coaching, team selection, tactics and in game management out of his hands then sure, he might prove to be a success.

He just coached a team to a deserved cup final win against Guardiola’s City with a tactical setup that would have delivered a clean sheet had the keeper not thrown one in.

 

[izec]

He deserves the sack. I expect him to be sacked, the only outcome after the review of Ineos.That is if hey are serious to get us to the top.

We can also keep Ten Hag and fight forever for the top 6 spot, inconsistent to bad performances and excuses and with a decent chance for the occasional domestic cup win. We are going nowhere with him.

A cup win is fine, but it should t come instead of challenging for the league/CL. We should manage both. A cup win and finishing 8th is not acceptable. Wigan won it as well and got relegated. It means nothing. So yes, winning it is fine if we are improving and look to challenge, but we will never under ETH. Not what he has shown here in the 2 years.

 

[GDaly95]

Not really if they've already decided. Trying to pretend to the fans they've actually taken this into consideration is stupid and a waste of time. Just back your decision if you've made it and think it's form the good of the club.

Well I don't think that it should be done in order to pretend to fans that they took the FA Cup into consideration. But it is a fact that the reaction from the fanbase as a whole (and from the media) will be markedly different later into next week than it would be if they did it this evening. They can still get their ducks in a row in the meantime, so why not wait.

 

[Gloccamora]

Nothing I have seen in the last 2 years tells me that he's capable of understanding simple things. Midfield was the most obvious thing to fix months ago and we could have been a lot better. He stumbles upon random formations and sticks with those for far too long.
Our problem is hanging on to Managers for too long and we write off whole year very quickly.
His level seem to be lower division clubs. Can he learn anything in the future, I don't know. He hasn't shown anything for last 2 years. We have been crap for 15 months or so. Should have been sacked a while back. He's lucky that glazers are in charge.

 

[David Bartley]

Yep I don't see the value of twitter polls in general. But add football rivalry into the mix and I've no idea how anyone expects to gauge opinion to any degree of accuracy.



There's a lot more opposition fans on social media to be fair.

I fondly remember United fans voting for the ‘Bell End’.

 

[Lash]

Given the listed options, I would be inclined to go with McKenna. But, I also think it could go tits up.

I meant successful in the future, I think it would be a stupid option right now. I'm in the Tuchel camp.

 

[hobbers]

Ineos+Wilcox obviously already decided he deserves the sack. They plan to sack him, presumably still do. That means Berrada and Ashworth also think he should be sacked, because gardening leave or not there's no way they didnt at least sneak their opinions in.

So much for trusting the new structure eh

 

[CM]

Replacing him with a championship manager is the real fecking problem with the standard.

The current manager required penalties to see out a three goal lead against Championship opposition last month. Tuchel, McKenna or whoever replaces may turn out not to be good enough but I'm taking that all day over another season of a manager who we already know isn't good enough.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I meant successful in the future, I think it would be a stupid option right now. I'm in the Tuchel camp.

Ah, I see. I can't entertain Poch or Frank. Tuchel ticks a lot of boxes but he doesn't really have any track record of spending much time with clubs. I also wonder whether he would fancy working in a setup involving a DoF. I personally don't think we should be considering McKenna at this point, but out of the 4 mentioned, I would be inclined to go with him. It seems a-bit knee jerky though, as the McKenna links ramped up once he was linked with Chelsea.

 

[Infra-red]

The alternatives to ETH are very limited at this point. Would rather give him another year under the new structure and that would also happen to be the last year of his contract.

The paucity of alternative options has to be taken into account. I certainly would not swap Ten Hag for McKenna or Frank.

 

[Zumbi]

How do you know this - Did you see this data? Are you better qualified to interpret the medical metrics and data than Utds staff and the manager? Have you sight of the training regimen and can you let us know what it was that caused the injuries please?

We have no idea if all the injuries were the results of his training regimen or tactics etc. We should definitely be wary of assuming they are.

However, I think we should equally wary of assuming it’s all just bad luck. Lots of the people that are giving him the benefit of the doubt this season because of all the injuries seem to be equally guilty of assuming our injuries are entirely unrelated to his methods. How do they know there’s no link?

Seems to me that Ineos are the only ones with the inside information and will come to a conclusion based on that info. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out after he’s long gone, whenever that is.

 

[Zumbi]

He just coached a team to a deserved cup final win against Guardiola’s City with a tactical setup that would have delivered a clean sheet had the keeper not thrown one in.

He also coached us to some of our worst ever PL and CL showings, and some of our worst ever performances. And not just in one area - there have been huge question marks over his tactical failings across the pitch: unable to keep clean sheets or hold leads; conceding the same sorts of goals over and over again; the most porous midfield in the league; no semblence of a cohesive attack or consistent patterns of play. If you want to ignore the larger volume of evidence that comes from 38 league games and six CL games all because of an FA cup run then crack on. Many of us won’t.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

And they also say there happy to come 8th again, but apparently we've lowered our standards with Ten Hag .

Ten Hag, the man who actually came 8th and some are defending? Yes I'd say he is a pretty good example.

 

[Cerberus]

People saying they'll be happy to let McKenna build something will be shown up if we finished 8th under him. The knives would be firmly out.

Why shouldn't the knives be out in that scenario? No Champions League football shouldn't be acceptable here.

 

[Lash]

Well I don't think that it should be done in order to pretend to fans that they took the FA Cup into consideration. But it is a fact that the reaction from the fanbase as a whole (and from the media) will be markedly different later into next week than it would be if they did it this evening. They can still get their ducks in a row in the meantime, so why not wait.

Maybe, I feel like it will be transparent as feck and everyone will just react to that anyway.

Ah, I see. I can't entertain Poch or Frank. Tuchel ticks a lot of boxes but he doesn't really have any track record of spending much time with clubs. I also wonder whether he would fancy working in a setup involving a DoF. I personally don't think we should be considering McKenna at this point, but out of the 4 mentioned, I would be inclined to go with him. It seems a-bit knee jerky though, as the McKenna links ramped up once he was linked with Chelsea.

From what I hear from people on here, that's exactly how he likes to operate and not get involved in transfers. He's a proper tactician, flexible and has won things. Now I don't know how he is promoting youth or if he truly is as volatile as people level at him, but if the structure is calling the shots anyway, the squad will be ready for a McKenna in the future. Also the new structure is inexperienced (none of them have done their roles at a club the size of United and some have never even had their roles) and adding an also inexperienced manager just seems like a recipe for disaster. It would be between Tuchel and McKenna out of the 4, but I just see it as too soon for McKenna.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Why shouldn't the knives be out in that scenario? No Champions League football shouldn't be acceptable here.

They should be? It was a dig at people pretending they would be content with finishing in those kinds of positions if they see "progress".

 

[El Jefe]

My issue with EtH is he more than any manager we’ve had, has made decisions that were so obviously bad in real time and for him to not react quick enough to change the bad decision.

What was his excuse for AWB stinking it out for weeks playing LB while keeping Dalot at RB?

He left Casemiro for months playing in some of the worst conditions ever for a DM

Most people apart from those who never question the manager said it would be a bad idea using Bruno and Mount together or using Mount as a CM.

He wanted us to be the best transition team yet played Antony every week for months. A player who is arguably the worst player with the ball in transition.

I seriously judge his decision making and ideas. Wasn’t there also a period where he didn’t trust Varane as a LCB despite stats and the eye test proving Varane is one of the most two footed defenders in the league.

His strengths are galvanising a team and keeping good squad harmony and also preparation for one off matches. He’s also good at keeping whatever works but I don’t know if that’s enough to make me trust him going into next season.

 

[pocco]

Yep, it would turn quick. The Hojlund thread is a great example. I think McKenna will be successful for what it's worth, but I don't get where this blind faith comes from he'll make the jump or the sudden patience with manager to build a team for longer than 2 seasons.

If Ineos have the right procedures in place and the right guys assessing performance, does it matter what fans think? We've all been asking for this structure so we'd have to just put our faith in it.

 

[Isotope]

Ogden seemingly suggested that the way we won isn't sustainable and maybe not the approach that United should be taking moving forward. A poster here said that those "criticisms" about how the bigger club should be winning with dominating possession made them angry because it shows poor understanding of football. Another poster said "that's not really what was said though", and I added that it doesn't even need to be a binary choice between dominating possession or 27% possession - this, contextually, being about United moving forward.

so yeah, I wasn't "trying to take yesterday off him" nor did I suggest we didn't deserve the win. To emphasise that - I even quoted my assessment of yesterday's game for you to see. Bizarre that you would double down with this.

Conversations about Ten Hag are getting weirder because people keep creating boogeymen and arguing against them, whilst attributing them to other people.

Well tbf, that's very simplistic opinion from him. That was exactly should be the approach for years to come from United against better Team (or on away tough game). That's how we started CL domination under SAF on mid- to late 2000. Started with making it hard to beat.

 

[Lash]

Ten Hag, the man who actually came 8th and some are defending? Yes I'd say he is a pretty good example.

I think it's a valid point if you don't then go and say your happy to hire someone with zero pedigree and ok with coming 8th again.

 

[pocco]

My issue with EtH is he more than any manager we’ve had, has made decisions that were so obviously bad in real time and for him to not react quick enough to change the bad decision.

What was his excuse for AWB stinking it out for weeks playing LB while keeping Dalot at RB?

He left Casemiro for months playing in some of the worst conditions ever for a DM

Most people apart from those who never question the manager said it would be a bad idea using Bruno and Mount together or using Mount as a CM.

He wanted us to be the best transition team yet played Antony every week for months. A player who is arguably the worst player with the ball in transition.

I seriously judge his decision making and ideas. Wasn’t there also a period where he didn’t trust Varane as a LCB despite stats and the eye test proving Varane is one of the most two footed defenders in the league.

His strengths are galvanising a team and keeping good squad harmony and also preparation for one off matches. He’s also good at keeping whatever works but I don’t know if that’s enough to make me trust him going into next season.

Yes, and certain posters were trying to claim that he had to sit on the bench and Shaw play at LCB because Ten Hag needs a left footed CB. Ignoring what you've pointed out and that Varane is an actual top level CB. Made my head spin listening to that nonsense, luckily Ten Hag cottoned on eventually.