Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Bilbo said:
'Don't get invested in the manager situation' says the guy with over 1,000 posts in this thread
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Trouble reading again? I said 'dont get emotionally invested in a manager'.

'Dont get invested in the manager situation' is basically the same as saying 'dont take an interest in your football club'. Which is asinine.
 
Some very weird people on here. I don't hate Ten Hag but he will hope strongly that he has a career anything like Tuchel's. Of course Tuchel is an upgrade, a big one.
 
All those shit games this season were we got dominated by mid table teams or even lower table teams and we got more than 25 shots against, how can people forget all these games after an FA cup win and want to keep Ten Hag now? He has to go although the FA cup win was brilliant. If Ineos really wanted to keep him they could easily have said yesterday that he stays, but they did nothing to kill all the rumors.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Both were poor last season. Tuchel at least produced good football that makes sense.

Tuchel has clearly, without doubt shown more as a manager than Ten Hag at this stage. If you honestly find it laughing emoji worthy then like I said you are so biased towards Ten Hag then it is pointless trying to get any balanced view from you.
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Tuchel has also shown without a doubt that he's not a sustainable pick for a rebuild, and he's had a bigger disappointment of the season than Ten Hag.

You can keep trying to give jibes about bias but fact is Ten Hag ended with major silverware and Tuchel didn't. Tuchels league finish by Bundasliga standards for Bayern Munich was beyond embarrassing, and he was never convincing in his entire reign there. Even last season when he scraped it. This is not the case for Ten Hag who superseded general expectation in his first year.

My point here is that he's a massive risk, one because he's wet the bed with Bayern and two because he's consistently proven to be unsustainable for a medium term pick.
 
Tuchel and Pochettino have both just failed terribly at big clubs. Amazing how much support they're getting.
 
VP89 said:
Tuchel has also shown without a doubt that he's not a sustainable pick for a rebuild, and he's had a bigger disappointment of the season than Ten Hag.

You can keep trying to give jibes about bias but fact is Ten Hag ended with major silverware and Tuchel didn't. Tuchels league finish by Bundasliga standards for Bayern Munich was beyond embarrassing, and he was never convincing in his entire reign there. Even last season when he scraped it.

My point here is that he's a massive risk, one because he's wet the bed with Bayern and two because he's consistently proven to be unsustainable for a medium term pick.
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Tuchel has proven he can win the biggest prizes at the highest level playing good football. He didn't manage to win the league against a freak invincible team.

His career has dwarved Ten Hag's to date which is why you finding it laughable to say he is an upgrade is absolutely absurd and proves a clear bias.

Who has shown more ability to be a manager at the top level to date, Ten Hag or Tuchel? I'm genuinely fascinated to hear your opinion.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Some very weird people on here. I don't hate Ten Hag but he will hope strongly that he has a career anything like Tuchel's. Of course Tuchel is an upgrade, a big one.
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Would rather give McKenna a chance.
Both Tuchel and Pochettino are too much connected to Chelsea. Tuchel is a Chelsea legend and Pochettino, with all those new players, finished 6th in the league, with a difference of three points. He's not better than Ten Hag. Not better at all.
 
Unam333 said:
Would rather give McKenna a chance.
Both Tuchel and Pochettino are too much connected to Chelsea. Tuchel is a Chelsea legend and Pochettino, with all those new players, finished 6th in the league, with a difference of three points. He's not better than Ten Hag. Not better at all.
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I wouldn't feel very excited about Pochettino.

I think it would be quite fun battering Chelsea at Old Trafford with Tuchel at the helm when so many of their fans harbour resentment that they ever made the stupid decision to get rid of him.
 
M Bison said:
At what point do you start questioning the structure above the manager though? we've been rubbish for 10 years and have been through various managers, at some point we surely have to look beyond the dugout.

For me its symptom vs cause, the problem is far deeper than the manager, changing 1 person isnt going to fix the problem.
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Well exactly, the structure has been completely revamped. And the new structure has clearly decided that ETH is not the right manager. But a lot of fans seem to have trouble squaring this 'new structure = god' belief with this new structures conclusion on ETH.


glazed said:
Not what City did. Not what Arsenal did. Not what Liverpool did.
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Liverpool sacked Bodgers after he brought them perilously close to winning the league. And found Klopp. Arsenal sacked Emery relatively unfairly and havent won any major titles since either. City sacked at will until they landed on the best manager in the world.

If Ten Hag brought us within a couple of points of a league title the usual suspects here would scream and rend their garments at the thought of sacking him, even more than they're doing already.
 
hobbers said:
Trouble reading again? I said 'dont get emotionally invested in a manager'.

'Dont get invested in the manager situation' is basically the same as saying 'dont take an interest in your football club'. Which is asinine.
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You don't think 1,000 posts, dominating this thread with your opinion for months, is being emotionally invested in a manager? You are incredibly invested.

At some point, since you obviously made up your mind a very long ago, maybe consider that you've said everything you could possibly say about it and let someone else have a turn.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
That's been the sentiment in this thread all season from some people. Anyone who wants the manager out is an idiot and a bad person.

Of course, that sentiment doesn't apply to players or other club employees. Sack all of them without a second thought!
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Calling people wankers for having a different opinion seems a bit out or order.

Some are too invested in the manager.
 
fergies coat said:
I mean this year obviously.
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This year when it was won by a freak unprecedented invincible team? Yeah he could have done better.

Playing some great stuff in the league and a Champions League semi final alone is pretty embarrassing for a man with his CV

Sure he would have righted it if he accepted Bayern's pleading with him to stay.
 
Poch finished the season with 3 more points and no trophy . But yeah according to CAF experts, he is an upgrade.

By the way, this is his illustrious career as a Manager

  • Chelsea. England. Florida Cup(2023) Premier League Summer Series(2023)
  • Paris Saint-Germain. France. Trophée des Champions(20/21) Coupe de France(20/21) Ligue 1(21/22)
  • Tottenham Hotspur. England. Audi Cup(2019) International Champions Cup(2018)
Mcknenna has won nothing, just like Zebri and Frank.

Only upgrade is Tuchel if we are being serious. No other candidates should be considered if we are talking of upgrade.
 
They should have either sacked him or made a statement that they aren't going to by now.

Having him go into the game yesterday and celebrate winning a cup while not knowing if he still has a job or not is absolutely bang out of order and utterly pathetic

It clearly affected and upset him as you could tell by how techy he was about it after the game, and also because why the feck wouldnt it?
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Tuchel has proven he can win the biggest prizes at the highest level playing good football. He didn't manage to win the league against a freak invincible team.

His career has dwarved Ten Hag's to date which is why you finding it laughable to say he is an upgrade is absolutely absurd and proves a clear bias.

Who has shown more ability to be a manager at the top level to date, Ten Hag or Tuchel? I'm genuinely fascinated to hear your opinion.
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Tuchel has achieved more than Ten Hag has, of course this is an objective fact and not even worthy of discussion. Just like Jose Mourinho has achieved more than both of these managers, which is an objective fact and not worthy of discussion. We however, will not go for Jose Mourinho, and an argument was rationally made that we should have never gone for him in the first place.

Tuchel has developed a reputation of being abrasive and difficult to work with, he does not adapt to the people above him and that's where things become extremely dicey. Moreover his astounding failure at Bayern makes one wonder (rightly) whether he's the right manager.

He did really well lifting Chelsea half way through the season and winning a Champions League, just like Di Matteo did. But with Chelsea he operated a 5 at the back system that was incredibly dull, and that does categorically not work at Manchester United. Moreover him scoring a lot of goals with Bayern in a much lower standard league with a generational striker to his hand doesn't mean nearly as much as you want to claim.

What is massive here, is that Tuchel has 1) chronically fell out with his superiors and 2) really underperformed with Bayern in both seasons he was there. He has not looked convincing as a Bayern manager at any point in his tenure - he would have likely been sacked at the end of last season if Dortmund didn't bottle it on the final day and allow Bayern to win on goal difference.

Do I objectively think Tuchel is a very good coach? Yes. Do I think he's a coach that can make immediate impact? Yes. Do I think its beyond reasonable doubt that he'll fall out with people above him? Yes. Do I think he'll do about the same as Ten Hag in silverware? Probably not.

I don't see Tuchel as a manager worthy of sacking Ten Hag for. I don't see Poch as the guy either (and I do like him, he's just bottled too many things in his career). And McKenna is completely unproven at top level. The market is really thin, and I don't see Poch moving anywhere. Giving Ten Hag next season isn't as terrible an idea as it sounds. He's not a fraud by any stretch and there's reason to believe he can tweak the open tactics from this season under a game model suited to Wilcox. Poch is probably going to hang around and wait for his moment, you get another season to judge Ireola and yeah you might miss the boat on McKenna but there may be movement with Ancelotti at Real, there maybe movement in other places too.

There were two major issues with Ten Hag - 1) his style was too open and he's changed it but the league was well gone by then, and 2) he had crazy injuries which made his suicide tactics even more exposed.

He is very capable of tweaking his approach, because he's a good coach. What we already know about him is that he's a winner, a man that the team is clearly behind and he sets high standards, whilst adapting to shitshows. Tuchel doesn't do this.
 
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Have to say despite thinking ten Hag needs to go, the Poch stuff confuses me greatly. The 400m ten Hag's spent (justifiably) gets brought up plenty, Chelsea have spent close to £1bn in the same timeframe. "But he came 4th if you only look between these dates!" yeah, great.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Poch finished the season with 3 more points and no trophy . But yeah according to CAF experts, he is an upgrade.

By the way, this is his illustrious career as a Manager

  • Chelsea. England. Florida Cup(2023) Premier League Summer Series(2023)
  • Paris Saint-Germain. France. Trophée des Champions(20/21) Coupe de France(20/21) Ligue 1(21/22)
  • Tottenham Hotspur. England. Audi Cup(2019) International Champions Cup(2018)
Mcknenna has won nothing, just like Zebri and Frank.

Only upgrade is Tuchel if we are being serious. No other candidates should be considered if we are talking of upgrade.
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McKenna won back to back promotions with a team no one expected to even get promoted in league 1 in McKenna's first season, never mind back to back promotions to the PL. That is actually an amazing and difficult achievement, which is being underrated and taken for granted.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
McKenna won back to back promotions with a team no one expected to even get promoted in league 1 in McKenna's first season, never mind back to back promotions to the PL. That is actually an amazing and difficult achievement, that is being underrated and taken for granted.
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McKenna IN.
 
ArmaDino said:
Are you trying to tell me that going from PL champion to finishing 7th, while being comfortably beaten home and away by all our rivals while your manager is telling his own fan base that we should strive to be more like an oil club that hasn't achieve anything is somehow better than winning an FA Cup and stopping your domestic plastic club from doing a double simply because we finished 1 position lower and scored fewer league goals?
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Don't forget the fact giggs took over and won points that would have otherwise been lost by moyes. That season is clearly worse.

As shocking as we've been this year we've had moments of pure magic and memories that we will look back on fondly. That Liverpool game, the Brentford finale, the wolves finale, the fa cup final, that garnacho overhead kick. Hell, even those 2/3, months where every game was 4-3 at least a 3-2 to one of the two sides playing, I mean at least it wasn't boring, right?? Surely better than van gaals last year?

Also don't forget the amount of minutes our young players got. Does anyone know what's overall tally and how it compares? I feel like we probably gave more minutes to academy graduates than all our rivals combined!
 
OverratedOpinion said:
This year when it was won by a freak unprecedented invincible team? Yeah he could have done better.

Playing some great stuff in the league and a Champions League semi final alone is pretty embarrassing for a man with his CV

Sure he would have righted it if he accepted Bayern's pleading with him to stay.
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FYI they finished 3rd.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Tuchel has proven he can win the biggest prizes at the highest level playing good football. He didn't manage to win the league against a freak invincible team.

His career has dwarved Ten Hag's to date which is why you finding it laughable to say he is an upgrade is absolutely absurd and proves a clear bias.

Who has shown more ability to be a manager at the top level to date, Ten Hag or Tuchel? I'm genuinely fascinated to hear your opinion.
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It wasn’t just losing to a freak team, he had them finish below Stuttgart as well, having added Harry Kane to the team.
 
VP89 said:
Tuchel has achieved more than Ten Hag has, of course this is an objective fact and not even worthy of discussion. Just like Jose Mourinho has achieved more than both of these managers, which is an objective fact and not worthy of discussion. We however, will not go for Jose Mourinho, and an argument was rationally made that we should have never gone for him in the first place.

Tuchel has developed a reputation of being abrasive and difficult to work with, he does not adapt to the people above him and that's where things become extremely dicey. Moreover his astounding failure at Bayern makes one wonder (rightly) whether he's the right manager.

He did really well lifting Chelsea half way through the season and winning a Champions League, just like Di Matteo did. But with Chelsea he operated a 5 at the back system that was incredibly dull, and that does categorically not work at Manchester United. Moreover him scoring a lot of goals with Bayern in a much lower standard league with a generational striker to his hand doesn't mean nearly as much as you want to claim.

What is massive here, is that Tuchel has 1) chronically fell out with his superiors and 2) really underperformed with Bayern in both seasons he was there. He has not looked convincing as a Bayern manager at any point in his tenure - he would have likely been sacked at the end of last season if Dortmund didn't bottle it on the final day and allow Bayern to win on goal difference.
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Okay so he has won the Bundesliga recently, Champions League semi finals, Champions League with an unfancied side, Champions League final with PSG winning multiple leagues, competing for leagues with Dortmund.

All while never playing football as bad as Ten Hag has for 18 months here. He is so difficult that Bayern wanted to keep him.

Can you just explain what you see in Ten Hag that makes it so laughable to see that as an upgrade? Won an FA Cup?
 
Bilbo said:
You don't think 1,000 posts, dominating this thread with your opinion for months, is being emotionally invested in a manager? You are incredibly invested.

At some point, since you obviously made up your mind a very long ago, maybe consider that you've said everything you could possibly say about it and let someone else have a turn.
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I'm not one of the main culprits of turning the thread into groundhog day. But yeh it does get tiring seeing and posting the same arguments and I should probably keep the thread muted until we have clarity.

Then we can move on to whether Ineos actually know what they're doing or not.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Poch finished the season with 3 more points and no trophy . But yeah according to CAF experts, he is an upgrade.

By the way, this is his illustrious career as a Manager

  • Chelsea. England. Florida Cup(2023) Premier League Summer Series(2023)
  • Paris Saint-Germain. France. Trophée des Champions(20/21) Coupe de France(20/21) Ligue 1(21/22)
  • Tottenham Hotspur. England. Audi Cup(2019) International Champions Cup(2018)
Mcknenna has won nothing, just like Zebri and Frank.

Only upgrade is Tuchel if we are being serious. No other candidates should be considered if we are talking of upgrade.
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I'm open to the idea of Tuchel as i do think he was a bit unlucky not to win more with Chelsea. The problem for me is the expectations and what we're aiming to do in the summer- evolution or revolution when it comes to player sales and new players coming in? If the club is serious about a rebuild i get the impression Tuchel isn't a manager that excels at that.
 
sugar_kane said:
It wasn’t just losing to a freak team, he had them finish below Stuttgart as well, having added Harry Kane to the team.
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When it was clear he was facing a team that were statistically the 2nd best team in the history of the division and could not be caught he focused on the Champions League and it was a very tight Semi Final. Makes sense to me.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
McKenna won back to back promotions with a team no one expected to even get promoted in league 1 in McKenna's first season, never mind back to back promotions to the PL. That is actually an amazing and difficult achievement, which is being underrated and taken for granted.
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People here are acting as if that qualifies him to be an upgrade. Frank or Zebri also do not qualify as an upgrade. Poch should not be even in discussion considering he didnt do that well and has next to no success.

I am not downplaying Mckenna achievements. But it doesn’t make him an upgrade over ETH. At this moment some are just picking out names to justify their argument to remove someone who has won 2 trophies in 2 seasons with a team who had won nothing for 6 seasons before ETH appointment.

The upgrade should have proven pedigree in winning trophies and only Tuchel qualifies
 
VP89 said:
Tuchel has achieved more than Ten Hag has, of course this is an objective fact and not even worthy of discussion. Just like Jose Mourinho has achieved more than both of these managers, which is an objective fact and not worthy of discussion. We however, will not go for Jose Mourinho, and an argument was rationally made that we should have never gone for him in the first place.

Tuchel has developed a reputation of being abrasive and difficult to work with, he does not adapt to the people above him and that's where things become extremely dicey. Moreover his astounding failure at Bayern makes one wonder (rightly) whether he's the right manager.

He did really well lifting Chelsea half way through the season and winning a Champions League, just like Di Matteo did. But with Chelsea he operated a 5 at the back system that was incredibly dull, and that does categorically not work at Manchester United. Moreover him scoring a lot of goals with Bayern in a much lower standard league with a generational striker to his hand doesn't mean nearly as much as you want to claim.

What is massive here, is that Tuchel has 1) chronically fell out with his superiors and 2) really underperformed with Bayern in both seasons he was there. He has not looked convincing as a Bayern manager at any point in his tenure - he would have likely been sacked at the end of last season if Dortmund didn't bottle it on the final day and allow Bayern to win on goal difference.
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Absolutely well said! Swap a 20 year old hojlund with kane this year (and get rid of every other forward at tuchels disposal) and let's see who gets more goals.

He fluked a league title last year and has failed miserably this year. He left Chelsea on bad terms and appears to always fall out with upper management. He is cut from the same cloth as mourinho and conte both in terms of character and footballing style and we should stir clear, regardless of whether we sack ten hag or not.
 
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