'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'.
I really dont want to give him credit for fecking up a season so thoroughly.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I really dont want to give him credit for fecking up a season so thoroughly.
Interesting how there's supposedly this big masterplan behind everything and yet he has relied on the likes of McTominay and hoofball to bail him out on several occasions, especially early in the season. So we play inefficient football on purpose just to show certain players the door? Makes sense.
Yep, passed 10 years have been hard on us all
He's right. We are in a better place than last year. Because unlike last year we've worked out he's incompetent and are a year closer to getting shot of him.
Let's keep him because the great Arteta came good for Arsenal is such a weak argument.
Chess in six dimensions?
All part of his master plan.
The only time that will be better..... is the right time!
For me the right time will be when the new senior club management are in place and fully functioning.
It's difficult to tell from outside, but judging on the issues that are surfacing, e.g. Sir Jim having a go at the state of the youngsters dressing rooms and his harsh words about the IT situation. From all of this it seems he is determined to have a good look around, including 'under the carpet', the gist being he's is not likely to go off 'half-cocked'.
Regrettably it would seem the problems we have are manifold, and may be a lot worse than anyone outside the club actually appreciated. A new manager 'parachuted in', a couple of new signings, a lick of paint, and some harsh words here and there are not going to restore our fortunes immediately. For me and I suspect, you and many others the key thing will of course be the choice of manager, but I suspect a "typical Manchester United model" of a past manager, is not what we will need... or indeed what we will get.
We have to assume Sir Jim although not a football expert, does understand and loves the game and this club and his track record of success in business management suggests he just might know what he is doing. We have to trust in that assumption. If Sir Jim keeps ETH or lets him go, now, or in 6 months/ a years time, or sticks with him longer, we have to believe it's for the best.
For the first time ever we are going to finish the season outside of the top 7 with a negative goal diff which is currently -3 and easilly be -7 or -8 by the end of the day, this whole season has been an embarrasment.
No, I think he was able to demonstrate that he knew the players enough for them to agree to it. It's typical when a manager moves team. At United though, usually they buy shirt sellers.
Does everyone on here suffer from severe tunnel vision and amnesia?
Not as embarrassing as 1973-74 season;
Total 32 points, -10 goal diff, finished 21st position -relegated to Div 2, but we still retained the manager (Tommy Doc) and won Div 2 next year and came straight back up. Also made the FA cup final ... but least said about that the better
I hope that this is satire.
No it's not
So you genuinely think that a head coach planned from preseason to sabotage his own players in order to out them and make them find new clubs(including his brand new signings)? You also think that any club has 1v1 defending as one of its ways but most importantly that statement means that SAF's 442 wasn't the United way.
Well i mean how positive do you think the players are? I don't think they make feelings public because
1. It reduces their career chances if they slack off their boss
2. ETH has a nice guy image and look. He's not toxic in pressers. It was different with Mourinho. He was in 3rd season full meltdown mode and is the most narcissistic and negative manager around. I think everyone felt entitled to critize by the end of his tenure.
3. Some players enjoy having too nice managers so they pick up lucrative contract renewals even if they aren't pulling their weight.
Its so insane we've had this discussion with all managers post Saf.
Where did you get sabotage from?
By the looks of it, he's asked the players to play possession high press football, even Rooney has said the players aren't good enough for Manchester United.
Did you want us to go defensive counter attacking? I think you'll see this in FA cup final by the way.
Rio has spoken lots of times about 1v1 defending and actually said that SAF made them play like that.
442 can still have 1v1 defending, remember the 442 from 1994/5 I loved that team, but we've not played the traditional 442 since about 2003? That's 20 years.
I get the sabotage from our setup and an entire season without fixing it.
And he didn't ask the players to play possession, he literally described the opposite of that, transition Football with speed in order to surprise the opposition. We do use a high press but it's terribly setup, I mentioned why several and is tired to repeat myself.
There are many ways to play Football, things aren't divided in two categories defensive counter attacking or possession high press.
And no SAF didn't make them play in 1v1 by default. United played zonal marking with helpers, CMs covering inside channels, wide midfielders primarily doubling with the fullbacks and all that generally with a containment scheme. 1v1 will happen in pretty much every games but it is not the desired situation, it's something that teams wants to avoid.
Now lets say that the players aren't good enough for United, what exactly makes ETH good enough for United?
The problem with bringing up Arteta (even ignoring all the differences between him and EtH) is that 99% of managers underperforming to the same degree do not turn it around, get sacked and nobody regrets in afterwards.
And I am sure that most of them in fact did have a plan that would have looked great. It is just that it did not work. Most of them also had quite a few positives about their reign. It is not like every unsuccessful manager is always just an unmitigated disaster on all fronts.
We are analysing Arteta case to death, but if we analyse failed managers there will be lots of them who had promising CVs, interesting ideas/plans and tons of mitigating circumstances (and did well in some respects). we cannot just ignore them and only analyse Arteta - that would be cherry-picking just one more positive to EtH case. For every Arteta there are lots of Andre Villas-Boases.
The question essentially is how likely it is that EtH can be successful at United after all given his history of performance and circumstances (both mitigating and aggravating).
I would say that based on
(I) the extent of his underperformance
(II) his CV being good but not outstanding and most managers with comparable CVs failing to make step up
(III) him not being a young manager
the probability of him coming good is 10-20% at most, and it would be mismanagement to wait and sack him only when this probability approaches zero.
I don’t know, and neither do you.
On the surface, which is all we can reliably judge by, they seem to still be putting the effort in. Which is why I was surprised by your comment.
If you mean the toxicity on the Caf, that’s fair. But whilst some are quite articulate and genuinely concerned, there are a boatload of drama queens, keyboard warriors and folks who are happy to just regurgitate sensationalist media/pundit nonsense who make a lot of noise.
Not sure, personally, that I’d rely on the latter category as a barometer of a manager’s success. Many are just aping what they hear from others.
Anyway, need to get psyched up for the game, have a good afternoon!
He said transition, but cleared it up a few weeks ago to attacking transition.
I know there are multiple ways to set a team up and I never said it was default to play 1 vs 1 defending but we did play it. I know the overload method mate, I watched us use it for years. When we were overloading with the fullbacks and CMs on the wings with the forwards in the box what was the center half's doing? Hey? Marking who two forwards or later when team were sh*t scared just one forward and a sweeper centre back.
Counter pressing isn't as good as last season, you should know the reasons for this, Maybe the defense dropping off? Maybe the players legs who plays there? Maybe positioning?
We are moving away from the original comment, Eth has not blinked he wants us to play this way.
I've not seen the team for today but if it's big Willy, Martinez and Amrabat we will see possession based, hight transition (attacking).
Great more childish name-calling. Has this replaced Pep Guardiola is my idol now?
Need to update my bingo sheet.
Casemiro is going to play CB in the final isn't he...
It will be Varane and Martinez.
No ? It’ll be Martinez and Varane . Varane will get 20 mins today and he’ll start alongside Licha next Saturday
No, he was able to bullshit them into agreeing to it. What he's demonstrated on the pitch is that he doesn't have much of a clue about using the players he signed. Our position in the table is exactly right for the calibre of both the manager and squad.
I hope you're right, but he's continuing to play him there today when we have defenders back fit again. Honestly wouldn't surprise me at all.
Can't throw the kids on in a nothing game.
He is such a stubborn wanker
Why? other than Casemiro at the back again that's a decent line up. I like Hojlund a lot but the false 9 thing might work better against City.
Why the fecks he persisting with Casemiro at CB when we’ve now got actual CB’s fit again.
For about 20 minutes in the final too
Why have Casemiro at cb with 3 cbs on the bench, Willy must be match fit now to start
Just hope he gives Collyer a run out for once
Just hope he gives Collyer a run out for once
It's ETH. He'll be leading out a false 11 on the day.
It's not a clarification and if he clarified it this way then he thinks that people are idiots. Think about it this way being the best transition team means that your goal is to transition from defense to attack or attack to defense as fast possible both phases work together because the fast you play the more likely you are to make or provoke a mistake. Your attacking transition as a style isn't a thing and never will be.
Regarding 1v1 defense, no they don't mark the two forwards, they play zone and United generally played a narrow back four, so it was generally 4 against 3 when the ball was wide because the opposite side fullback wouldn't man mark the opposite side winger. The reason you do that is because for example if the ball is on the right wing, the first attacker is the responsibility of the right side fullback, the second attacker if there is one is the responsibility of the player in charge of the closest zone generally the right CM or the right midfielder/winger. Now the right side CB is in charge of the first player entering his zone, if he already has one then he passes that player, often to the other CB and the left back takes assignment of the other CB, basically the entire defense slides and in theory you are supposed to be at least one player up. This is meant to avoid scrambles and 1v1, every player has by design a cover.
I don't know if I made sense but I tried.
How much better?
Martinez back today and we can barely get out of our own half.
Every game is a challenge no matter the opposition can't say we're boring
can't say we're boringMan City are winning their 4th title in a row and they will finish 33 points ( 65 difference in GD) over us and yet we are somehow keeping our manager. There are levels to the gap between the two clubs now. Standards are in the gutter at United
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There's never a right time to hire a new manager. It's always a risk and always requires a big slice of luck.
And if Ratcliffe and ineos are waiting until the cleaners have sorted out the IT department then I'd say they’ve got their priorities all messed up.
If the club keep him on only to then have to sack him mid season then that's a massive blunder and just more of the same as we've had under the Glazers who've waited too long to sack every failing manager post SAF.
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