This is an extraordinary defence of EtH IF im understanding you correctly.
You're saying the majority of the players signed during his tenure aren't his? That he didn't sign off on them?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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You're saying the majority of the players signed during his tenure aren't his? That he didn't sign off on them?
I agree with the last line of your post. Not the first part.
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Posters labelling those who add context or aren’t vociferously critical of Ten Hag as cultist is absolutely point scoring and just a shitty thing to do if you disagree with a fact presented disprove it, or an opinion offer the alternative but do so nicely.
It’s not innocuous when you put effort into your posts and the implication is you’re a cultist. I ask the poster to quote a post or poster who fits that category and shock horror there is no reply. The fact you concern yourself more with my reaction to calling out the poster for this and trying to see and understand exactly their position I think says enough.
I think the word cult or cultist is exclusively used now in this thread to be derogatory and dismissive of posters who have nuanced views of the current situation and so yeah it’s offensive to see this and be misrepresented consistently.
Imagine putting effort into presenting your argument only to be shut down with a lazy, ignorant reply that does nothing to debate or counter your arguments.
Saying someone is more Ten Hag in is at least taking someone for their position but not doing so in a derogatory fashion.
Even then I don’t know any poster here who is 100% Ten Hag in as even id quite happily see him replaced if our new structure identifies a better manager to take us forward long term in all for it.
100%
Yeah and I said before that while I liked Ole he felt like he’d be the manager before the manager to take us to that final step. Unfortunately I think the Ronaldo signing, compounded by Greenwood, Sancho and multiple other things not working out has meant we’re not much farther away.
I do believe we are now in the process of creating a long term better and successful style of play.
Brentford game was the biggest outplaying in years - conceded 31 shots and we got a point, fairly luckily nabbed a point against Liverpool tbf. Brentford at home those late goals. Wolves was a very late goal away. At home in the first game outplayed but won.
Our press is poorly implemented though. We’re not organised. We get caught loads trying to play out from the back. We are generally very poor at passing. Playing long balls over the top for Garnacho to run onto may be fast but its not yielding anything in terms of goals or good chances. Its just hit and hope.
I wouldnt say its clear to see. Respected ex players are calling us as the worst coached team in the league.
They are only scoring points against themselves, by name calling instead of presenting rational discourse.
I admire your resilience, and others like VP89. You all deserve medals
The whole thing is getting very childish, I’ve reached out to a few to ask if they can explain their position / assumption / assertion to me and guess what, no response.
It’s getting very tiring
I'm saying they were the best he could get in the circumstances. We know he wanted FdJ and Kane. Do you really think he wanted Weghorst? That Casemiro and Evans and Erikson were anything more than short term sticking plasters or free transfers dictated by Glazer balance sheets? That he considered Mason Mount an elite midfielder? In the end he had no scouting operation he could rely on so he went for players he knew personally. With mixed results.
Everyone can read these guys like a book. They're the Ten Hag version of Shy Torys- too embarrassed at this stage to fully embrace their opinions in front of onlookers.
I voted keep. The people i'd want making the decision aren't at the club. Dont particularly trust Jim and Joel to pick our next coach.
The people i'd target to replace him - De Zerbi, Iraola maybe McKenna at a stretch, will be available 2 games into the season. Or 10. As far as judging the current squad and who really needs to go and who doesn't we can either have ten hag and mclaren with 2 years of working with them to go off or de zerbi with 2 weeks to go off (with a bit of help from wilcox who's been here a whole month). A coaches first act being mercilessly selling half the squad is probably sabotaging him a bit and making life more difficult than necessary anyway.
The people i'd target to replace him - De Zerbi, Iraola maybe McKenna at a stretch, will be available 2 games into the season. Or 10. As far as judging the current squad and who really needs to go and who doesn't we can either have ten hag and mclaren with 2 years of working with them to go off or de zerbi with 2 weeks to go off (with a bit of help from wilcox who's been here a whole month). A coaches first act being mercilessly selling half the squad is probably sabotaging him a bit and making life more difficult than necessary anyway.
It is very easy to criticize when things aren‘t going well. A lot of these turnips criticize us when we are winning too, by the way. And they couldn‘t coach a team if their life depended on it.
Yeah we have been poor all season with few bright sparks. Trying to play a progressive intense modern style has brought to light a lot of deficiencies and issues.
Long balls over the top are great when they are appropriate. It is taking advantage of the opponent’s tactics and we have created lots of 1v1 chances from them.
Wilcox, Brailsford and Berrada in July?
Every aspect of his management nous has been awful since the 7-0 beating by Liverpool. He is surely gone after the FA Cup.
What? Who said anything about Jim picking the coach
What I am curious about is how much involvement Steve McLaren actually has on the training ground. Scholes and Gary Neville both think it's minimal to none as they have worked under McLaren previously and said they aren't seeing anything that McLaren is known for when working with players, transpiring onto the pitch.
Something is very wrong with what we are seeing on the pitch and the buck stops with the manager. If it is a case of him stifling or not listening to his coaching staff then someone should have a word with him as it will cost him his job.
As an absolute minimum if they do decide to keep him on as manager, he shouldnt have any ability to veto or overrule recruitment department. Don't need more dross like Antony, Onana, Mount, Amrabat,Casemiro etc.
Something is very wrong with what we are seeing on the pitch and the buck stops with the manager. If it is a case of him stifling or not listening to his coaching staff then someone should have a word with him as it will cost him his job.
As an absolute minimum if they do decide to keep him on as manager, he shouldnt have any ability to veto or overrule recruitment department. Don't need more dross like Antony, Onana, Mount, Amrabat,Casemiro etc.
I don't even know how there's still so much energy for this discussion, season is over in a couple of weeks lads. Ultimately he's about to see out our worst season in over 30 years and will likely/rightly be sacked. No chance anything happens before the final so we may as well just wait it out and focus on what INEOS does beyond the City game.
- 9 games lost at Old Trafford.
- 14 PL games lost this season.
- 19 games lost in all competitions.
- 82 goals conceded.
- 56 goals conceded in the PL.
- 52 goals scored in the PL.
- Negative goal difference.
- Finished bottom of our Champions League group (gaining just 5 points from 6 games and conceding a record breaking 15 goals).
- Potentially finishing in our lowest ever position in the PL (missing out on European qualification. Oh, we might also finish with a lower points total than Moyes season).
Poor in training, poor at managing injuries, poor at tactics and on and on and on.
He's also been in the job almost 2 years and has been backed more than any other manager we've had (to the tune of £400m+).
He is statistically our worst ever manager. He is not qualified for the job and deserves no more time "to see if it works out".
He is absolutely useless and has us in relegation form and managers have been let go for less.
Quite frankly I'm absolutely baffled there are people still supporting him, he's causing so much damage to our club that will not be a quick fix, and people want to give him more time?
We're supposed to be one of if not the biggest club in the World. Where have our standards gone??
Absolutely delusional.
Wait. You mean dumping it all on the manager plus 400m, right?Managers get a lot of stick for their supposed favourites but i think in reality EtH has been praying that Rashford could rediscover his form i guess.
I mean Ole, Jose and EtH had good/decent first seasons as manager and well, look where they are now. Good luck asking Glasner to manage this dressing room and the pressure that comes with United, i think he'd find it very different to Palace.
There are managers-including EtH, which he did last season- that obviously could get this team to a struggling top 4 finish but that's not the issue. The issue is turning a team of top 4 hopefuls- which is all we've ever been in the past 11 years- into actual, consistent title challengers or, heaven forbid, actual winners, moving away from pragmatic football and the limitations of the squad and actually developing a good team. That's the real challenge. It's one EtH has categorically failed at so far but he has tried to address the issue quicker than Ole and Jose, which I guess is commendable.
I personally am not seeing much hope with EtH and would have no complaints if he was sacked. But people have to stop with this bollocks of believing that this weird mishmash squad of "top international and CL and World Cup winners" is ever going to get where we want to be if we just find a great manager out there to lead us there. The squad needs a huge amount of work and better recruitment and just dumping it all on the manager fails to address that point.
No one is saying this a great squad. You gave Ten Hag credit for a cup and finishing 3rd last season. Why is it hard to hold him responsible for this season? We are worse in every way.
In general the forums have gotten a lot more mean spirited this season.
Look at player performance threads.
It's come to a point where people want desperately to be right and clearly want certain players to fail.
I am vehemently an outer because I think there are to many factors that speak against him staying but I wouldn't call anyone a cultist.
The whole name calling thing just leads to dumber discussions that add no value and simply waste peoples time.
Yes, most of us are baffled. He could literally pull out a gun and shoot a player and there would be a few in the Caf giving him a pass.
I’m sure that we are for a lot of people but there are still some flip flopping so I think it’s right to try and be fair
A good start, might give them a couple of weeks to get the lay of the land. I'd want to act faster in general so i wouldn't be hanging around that long unless it really clicked immediately next season. I might just bide my time a bit too
Exactly. He isn't getting sacked till end of season. And then he is. And then we will have mostly the same problems with another manager who might be better or worse. We will buy a new player or two. Things will go on much as they would have anyway. It's all noise.
What's the point then? Let's just shut down the club in that case and never do anything.
lovely stuff. Roy Hodgson of course.We'll probably lose something like 10-12 players this year, though not all from the squad of course.
If we don't bring in at least 5 we'll be lucky to get close to top 4 next year too, whoever is manager.
Dear God the delusion.
McLaren and Ten Hag are a unit: Ten Hag was his assistant and brought McLaren with him. It is a complete nonstarter.
Goldbridge is saying in his polls are 80% Ten Hag in, surely that's bollocks?
One thing I will say is if that patched up team can still give Arsenal a reasonable game, doesn't that just prove that injuries being the reason we've been outplayed by so many bottom half teams is nonsense?
Of course they've been a contributing factor but we've still had more than enough to put in better performances than we have.
Of course they've been a contributing factor but we've still had more than enough to put in better performances than we have.
I have had enough of this obnoxious prat,don't give his toxic channel the time of day. Was great hearing Adam who used to be on his channel sticking the boot in recently too.
I wouldn't attribute those issues to progressive intense modern styles. It's attributable to 1 man's style that tries to play in the manner you said. This doesn't happen to other sides that try to play a progressive intense modern style. Hence why I take issue with this vague description.
Progressive intense modern styles do bring to light a lot of deficiencies and issues, but I disagree with what you're getting at here. You think that with better players, it will make things click. You're passing off the responsibility onto the players only. I don't see how that's going to make his system work.
There is far too much space between the defensive line and the pressing players. This isn't the case for other progressive intense modern style sides. Compactness is valued for all styles. If you're Ole or Mourinho, you value it because it makes you more solid at the back when soaking up pressure. When you're pressing in an intense manner, you value it because it makes the "pressing maze" more difficult to navigate through. With the amount of space we give other sides, it's very easy for them to turn our press into a great transition for themselves.
Nah, I think we're going to do fine under a guy like Tuchel. Ten Hag has had some shit luck with injuries and he didn't do himself any favors with his tactics / transfers. The transfers we're going to fix this summer. The tactics through better coaching. The injuries through (hopefully) better luck.
I see usual suspects still supporting him until the bitter end but he could yet survive another season
One could almost suspect fans supporting rivaling clubs to leave a vote or two….
Probably because people who watch him are pretending to be United fans the same as himself
It’s so pathetic that we have a cup final in 2 weeks and literally no one believes that we have a chance. Every game is now basically just hoping for the final whistle and avoiding embarrassment. 8th place finish with 54 points most likely and somehow people are still arguing for him. We will end the season closer in points to 16th place than to 4th but hey let’s give him another go till December when we can finally let him go
Imagine United fans wanting the man who’s guided the team to 8th in the table with a -4 goal difference, overseen 18 defeats all season & finished bottom of the CL group to be sacked. Absolute madness. Stupid mob mentality.
Edit: Look who’s using hyperbole now
I am surprised with ETH after almost 2 seasons that he doesn't know what to expect from a player. Any idiot know what McTominay can and cannot do. We know McTominay cannot press, pass and track runners but can score some goals. He should know Casemiro isn't suited to play CB where he has no pace, careless and likes lunging into tackle yet he started off as CB. Lastly, he bought players who are not ready to contribute immediately to XI. Hoijund is far from ready, this guy need at least 3 years to be the starting forward for United and he cost 70 million. Antony is another player not ready to take the next step for 84 million and whether this guy can make it is another question. Wasting money of Mount who hardly plays and could have gotten from free transfer. This club is hopeless, there is nobody questioning those decisions that he makes and we deserves that 2-3 years setback. I hope to see ETH sack asap.
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