Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Revan said:
Yep. It happens that you think a manager looks good and then you realize he is shit.

Antony started promising last season too. Doesn't mean that he ain't a bit shit. And Casemiro looked next to Rodri the best DMF in the league, but now, I bet he isn't someone you want to have a team built around.
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So you were wrong last season but you are definitely correct this time round?
 
VP89 said:
There is a ton of stuff happening at football clubs that fans have no clue about.

If you're asking broad stroke questions like "what non public information could there be" then there's another problem.
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Like what? We're secretly cloning Fergie? We've got alien UFO's under the pitch? We're not Area 51, we're a PLC football club. There's no secret files that absolve Eric Ten Hag from this season.
 
Sarni said:
Kid :lol: that you even have to resort to this kind of nonsense.
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Im so sorry for calling you by your mental age. I thought you'd be more responsible than to try talk on behalf of others.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
Better recruitment, better negotiation and ultimately better players.

If he’s lucky maybe more than one striker. Rashford might decide to start playing. Could even get a defensive midfielder the right side of 30 and a left back with two working legs.
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That would be great, but imagine they were all managed well also? Amazing right?
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
So you were wrong last season but you are definitely correct this time round?
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Actually, I was very sceptical of him last season too (before it was cool). Called him the Sancho of managers, a highly rated manager/player, that seems to not excel in pretty much anything. But thought that he should get a second season based on results/performances.
 
Zumbi said:
I can’t think of anything worse than letting him him spend more time focussing on coaching and managing. So far, the more time he’s had to do that, the worse our football and the worse our results have got. Our best bet is getting him as far away from the coaching and managing as possible. A working midfield might suddenly appear.
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Can you really not?

He’s had a lot of time with Dalot for example. The most of all our defenders, and he’s improved quite a lot.
PoTMS said:
Sure, it was Matt Judge, Richard Arnold and the Glazers that made him insist on spending £400m on crap and coaching us into the worst team in the league. I'm sure getting a new CEO and football director will help with the latter.
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Do you believe the bold were best in class appointments?

Based on your £400m comment do you believe Ten Hag negotiated on behalf of the club for each player including the fee?

AndySmith1990 said:
Who cares. We could have the best CEO, DOF, and sporting directors football has ever seen. It wouldn't change the fact we'd still have a mediocre manager. Why on earth would you not want us to hire best in class in every role at the club?
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That is a non answer. Answer the actual question or don’t respond at all.

We all should absolutely care who is running the business side, who is managing the wider sporting structure of our football club. It’s kind of a big deal.

Who has said I don’t want us to hire best in class for each role? I’d absolutely bite your hand off for a Guardiola. But he’d never join such a poor sporting operation.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Are you seriously implying there isn’t lots of information and data available to the club and not us?

:wenger:
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I'm indeed implying that the information and data available to the club that we don't see is not going to save Ten Hag from getting the sack because he's terrible at his job and any data United have will also show that.
 
Why keep playing Casemiro as a CB when it's clear he doesn't wanna do it. Lots of time he finds himself either too advanced or way behind playing them onside
 
Revan said:
He has 1700+ posts defending EtH at practically all of them with the occasional, 'I am not particulary EtH in, but here there are 1000 reasons why we should stick with him'.
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I've noticed that too. "I'll admit ETH has made a lot of mistakes, except every single one that's brought up in this thread"
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I think from the outside looking in you have been a massive defender of ten hag and everything that has gone wrong with excuses galore but occasionally drop a post saying you want him sacked too, just to be carefully placed on the fence
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He's defended Ten Hag all season to the hilt, now he's started gas lighting people when they call him out.
 
crossy1686 said:
I'm indeed implying that the information and data available to the club that we don't see is not going to save Ten Hag from getting the sack because he's terrible at his job and any data United have will also show that.
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Whether it is or isn't going to save ten hag isn't the question.

The question is if it did why would you think you're more qualified to know otherwise.
 
crossy1686 said:
I know what the definition of sporting excellence is but my question is what does it look like? It sounds like PR bollocks. Stuff like 'putting the Manchester back in Manchester United'. What does that actually look like? You can't just say words and expect people to buy it without explaining what that will look like in practice.

It's fine mate, you don't have to explain what their roles are, I know that also. What I struggle to understand is how a technical director, DOF and CEO are going to make Ten Hag better at his job. For example, Berrada, the CEO, is responsible for the running of the entire organisation, signing off on budgets and involved in hiring/firing. Ten Hag won't stop playing without a midfield or running the players into the ground because he now exists at United. Same for Ashworth and Wilcox. Their roles are largely around recruitment, ensuring there's standardisation between reserve teams and first teams, and continuity in the skill sets our new incoming players, as well as removing players that don't meet the high demands of playing for United. All stuff that involves having a broad overview of the day to day running of the sports side.

Now all this is great, and exactly what we need but who's going to sit Ten Hag down and tell him that losing 19 games (so far) this season is totally unacceptable and doesn't meet the standards of sporting excellence the club is striving for? That falling out with all your players because you want to sell them isn't within his best interests? That picking the same 11 players week in, week out and forcing them to cover more ground that any other team is causing massive injury problems? That there is more than one way to play football and you don't need a left footed CB to win games? That you're allowed to make subs and change the game at any point if your plan isn't working?

Unless the new structure is going to start picking the team and tactics, and taking training, I fail to see how Ten Hag will ultimately become a better coach with structure. He's just going to get rumbled twice as fast and be gone before Christmas.

First and foremost, Ten Hag's job is to win games and get the most out of the players currently available to him. I honestly cannot see a scenario where he can do that, with or without structure in place.
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Ok so you claim not to know what I mean by sporting excellence but you also understand what roles the incoming staff will take on.

So answer me this how on earth do you think the bold won’t significantly help Ten Hag?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I think from the outside looking in you have been a massive defender of ten hag and everything that has gone wrong with excuses galore but occasionally drop a post saying you want him sacked too, just to be carefully placed on the fence
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Do you really think I'm carefully placed on the fence? I'm one of the most staunch defenders of his, but even I see logic behind a sack.

I get idiots tagging me 24/7, I don't think I'm trying to do anything. I think he's still broadly a good coach but that's not enough. People want his career burried in posts :lol:
 
kouroux said:
Why keep playing Casemiro as a CB when it's clear he doesn't wanna do it. Lots of time he finds himself either too advanced or way behind playing them onside
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Exactly, he should have abandoned it after Coventry, everyone could see after that it wasn't a good idea, other than Ten Hag it seems.
 
crossy1686 said:
That would be great, but imagine they were all managed well also? Amazing right?
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Maybe. Seen this movie before though. This squad over performed last season and there is not enough technical ability or game smarts in the squad. This season is the culmination of a decade of shite transfers and financial mismanagement. Two January transfer windows with feck all bought when we have 1 fecking striker, no fit centre backs and no left backs.
 
VP89 said:
Whether it is or isn't going to save ten hag isn't the question.

The question is if it did why would you think you're more qualified to know otherwise.
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Do qualifications matter in this instance? Surely it's just a case of 'I have billions to buy a football club so now I get to say what happens", it could have been a bloke from Qatar. Would he have been better qualified maybe?

My qualifications are irrelevant, it's abundantly clear that Ten Hag isn't qualified to manage Manchester United.
 
crossy1686 said:
I'm indeed implying that the information and data available to the club that we don't see is not going to save Ten Hag from getting the sack because he's terrible at his job and any data United have will also show that.
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I think this is a very arrogant and naive position to take given you’ve seen absolutely nothing behind the scenes.

If he’s still here next season what makes you believe your understanding our situation any better than INEOS?
 
crossy1686 said:
Do qualifications matter in this instance? Surely it's just a case of 'I have billions to buy a football club so now I get to say what happens", it could have been a bloke from Qatar. Would he have been better qualified maybe?

My qualifications are irrelevant, it's abundantly clear that Ten Hag isn't qualified to manage Manchester United.
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Ashworth, Berrada and Wilcox. Are you more qualified than they are?
 
crossy1686 said:
Do qualifications matter in this instance? Surely it's just a case of 'I have billions to buy a football club so now I get to say what happens", it could have been a bloke from Qatar. Would he have been better qualified maybe?

My qualifications are irrelevant, it's abundantly clear that Ten Hag isn't qualified to manage Manchester United.
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I'm not sure you fully got the question, il ask it again.

If there are qualified candidates like Wilcox and Berrada who know what it's like between them to be heavily involved in running a successful club, who effectively decide to keep Ten Hag (this is a big if) - would you say they too are deluded trolls or lack common sense?
 
Donut said:
The penalty for fake ITK posts is immediate ban. Mods!
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You don't need to be an ITK to see it. He is gone, mate, it will just happen after the final. Sacking him now is simply pointless. And besides, Southgate isn't free for a couple of months more. Remains to be seen how they handle the timings of it all.
 
Seems this thread is being derailed by infighting when it is sure blatantly obvious that Ten Hag is way out of his depth and is surely on his way out
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Can you really not?

He’s had a lot of time with Dalot for example. The most of all our defenders, and he’s improved quite a lot.

Do you believe the bold were best in class appointments?

Based on your £400m comment do you believe Ten Hag negotiated on behalf of the club for each player including the fee?


That is a non answer. Answer the actual question or don’t respond at all.

We all should absolutely care who is running the business side, who is managing the wider sporting structure of our football club. It’s kind of a big deal.

Who has said I don’t want us to hire best in class for each role? I’d absolutely bite your hand off for a Guardiola. But he’d never join such a poor sporting operation.
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Your whole argument is completely flawed.

No previous managers have had this structure in place, yet they performed better than Ten Hag. Therefore why should we want this best in class structure to support a mediocre manager? Why not bring back Mourinho or LVG and let them benefit from the new structure?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Ok so you claim not to know what I mean by sporting excellence but you also understand what roles the incoming staff will take on.

So answer me this how on earth do you think the bold won’t significantly help Ten Hag?
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Because you can have all the pieces but if you keep insisting on a system that simply isn't sustainable in the PL and you're unwilling to adapt to what's happening then it doesn't matter what help he gets. If he's decided this is how we're going to play no matter what then we might as well not bother with the structure. He's already said we can't possibly play like Ajax, and that we can't play football because he didn't get De Jong, so unless INEOS are going to hand him De Jong we're pretty fecked aren't we?
 
VP89 said:
I'm not sure you fully got the question, il ask it again.

If there are qualified candidates like Wilcox and Berrada who know what it's like between them to be heavily involved in running a successful club, who effectively decide to keep Ten Hag (this is a big if) - would you say they too are deluded trolls or lack common sense?
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I’ll be amazed if you get a straight answer to this.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I think this is a very arrogant and naive position to take given you’ve seen absolutely nothing behind the scenes.

If he’s still here next season what makes you believe your understanding our situation any better than INEOS?
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Fortunately for me, each week, multiple times a week, United play out very public games of football and have lots of coverage of what's happening behind the scenes. He won't be here next season so the point is irrelevant, and then what does that say about my understanding of the situation and INEOS?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ll be amazed if you get a straight answer to this.
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I'm not trying to trap him.

I'm just seeing so many posts that belittle a school of thought that might want to give him time. I'm assuming the same people would belittle more qualified people if they were to ever land on the same conclusion, or, perhaps they would concede there was more at play than they thought.

In other words I want to know how stubborn they really are.
 
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