As a 71 year old, I imagine Sir Jim wasn't ever intending to see how it goes over the next few years before changing it up.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I agree it's likely attention seeking. Bit like that Amadeus bloke and how his over the top love of Poch would reel in so many people
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I think Wilcox, Berrada and Ashworth (when he arrives) are all significantly more qualified football people to help run the departments above and around Ten Hag and the first team much better with an aim for sporting excellence not just financial gain.
I believe that will be a bit of help.
Do you disagree and if so why?
Serious question, if INEOS keep Ten hag for another year would you say they are effectively a bunch of deluded trolls?
Same.
What do you mean 'sporting excellence'? Those are just words. What tangible help is he going to get that will make him a good manager all of a sudden?
As far as I'm aware, every manager we've had has had the aim of instilling sporting excellence, and none of them have been there to help the club be more profitable. As a club we've spent £1b in 10 years so we've not exactly been holding back at the expense of the first team. Most managers have got their own players over multiple windows.
So when these guys come in, I'm still unsure as to what you (and others) think they're going to be able to do to make Ten Hag good at his job. Because from my perspective the less involvement he has in everything, the better things will be for the club as a whole, and I imagine they will see it the same way.
I would say that as custodians of Manchester United they're not taking their roles seriously and are hoping someone else will make a tough decision for them because they don't know what to do. I'd also say that outside of hiring other people to do their dirty work for them, are they really fit to be running a football club or are they also in it for what they can get out of the club?
Held Arsenal to a comfortable win
Ok so just to try and understand this - INEOS would be effectively bringing very well qualified people to audit the operations, more qualified than anyone in the caf. They'd also have non public information to hand, which is material toward decision making.
But if they take this information and use their judgement to decide Ten Hag is trusted for next season, they are non serious because the sections of the caf knows better? Despite not knowing the actual workings of the training or the club outside of some reports?
Merson has just said ten Hag has the power of the Men In Black reset pen the way he dupes so many after each shocking game we play.
Why does he have to keep repeating what he's said all the time? he won't stop doing it.
That’s how poor quality your posts are - you sound like a cultist despite admitting he should be sacked.
I've been called a cultist for saying Mount wasn't just his transfer, or that some players don't listen to his instructions.
Someone with half a brain cell would know that's mutually exclusive to him generally being poor. Those lacking a brain cell can't grasp that and think it's being a cultist, because I dont have a pitch fork and blame ten hag for everything including but not limited to global warming.
Thanks for flagging which side you're on.
Actually that’s a good question, if on the other hand they end up getting rid of him after FA Cup final will you think they are a bunch of idiots because they cannot, like you, see all the redeeming values in him and recognize that this seasons failures are in no way his fault?
Wouldnt mean they're not serious just that they're bad at their jobs. Which Ineos have been running Nice for most of their stewardship, even if its turned round a bit recently.
He only admits that because he thinks it will make him more believable when he once again backtracks and starts defending him. He doesn’t want him sacked.
What could this non public information possible contain? Back to the Future style dossiers on what will happen if Ten Hag is given 5 years + at the club? Maybe pictures of Ten Hag caught in a long lens with Sir Jim's granddaughter? The tea lady said he was a nice bloke but says 'heh' a lot?
He has failed by every measurable metric. He's statistically the worst manager we've ever had. There's no secret files that suggest these things aren't true. Not to mention, he's extremely unlikeable and stubborn.
The only conceivable concession I will give is that perhaps at some point, in some fecked up meeting last season, him and Murtough agreed that they would play the "Ten Hag way" this season to weed out players that weren't up to it, and Eric would be safe regardless. If that is what happened he deserves sacking anyway for agreeing to put us through it.
I've said I've got nothing against those wanting to sack him, and I have also said I would put more faith in the qualified appointed folk to make the right decision than anyone on the caf.
Don't speak for me kid, and don't make things up either. It's not hard to stay in your lane.
Poor Ten Hag. If only he had a 'bit of help' instead of the £400m he's chucked down the drain. It's hilarious how far some of you will go to display this outrageous and disingenuous false equivalence.
While they were also the far better team. We couldn't get near them or keep the ball away from them during this period.
The rest of the game went as you described. They sat back and just saw the game out without much effort it seemed.
I guess people gave Ten Hag credit for tactics today but, we were utterly outplayed when Arsenal turned it on for 25 minutes until their goal. Even when they sat back they still forced Onana into more saves than Raya. So I fail to see what Ten Hag got right. But, I've been wanting him out all season so maybe I am a little too biased these days.
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Sporting excellence - To excel in areas related to sports.
With respect crossy, I don’t think you really want me to explain what a technical director, a sporting director and chief executive will do? But if you do, then ask and I’ll explain as best I can for you. This is a genuine offer by the way if you’re genuinely either unsure or interested in those roles.
What he needs help with is constructing a team and maintaining a team capable of winning matches consistently to a high standard. If you believe one man can do that by themselves then I fervently disagree.
I also don’t believe just throwing money is the answer. We’ve had people in charge who made us out to be Disneyland and low and behold other clubs took the Mickey out of us.
I also agree the less Ten Hag has to do the better. He should just be focused on coaching and managing the side.
I think INEOS have mismanaged this situation for the very present circumstance the club is in. If fans are somewhat discombobulated over the managers future imagine what it's like in the dressing room.
Would players give the extra 20% knowing the manager they are playing under who they are favorable with could go.
As a business there should always be clarity and direction, even if INEOS back the manager at least that's a consensus throughout the entire club about what's going to happen and in some capacity it also enables the manager to have some reassurance, not having to second guess decisions or choices that is otherwise alleviated when there's less pressure.
It also allows the manager to potentially make adjustments for how the team could play next season. The delay and stagnation of the club's definitive stance over the manager in my eyes is a mark against INEOS already. I take it more seriously having run SME's and even a smaller corporation needs unanimous superintendence let alone an organization the size of United.
Would players give the extra 20% knowing the manager they are playing under who they are favorable with could go.
As a business there should always be clarity and direction, even if INEOS back the manager at least that's a consensus throughout the entire club about what's going to happen and in some capacity it also enables the manager to have some reassurance, not having to second guess decisions or choices that is otherwise alleviated when there's less pressure.
It also allows the manager to potentially make adjustments for how the team could play next season. The delay and stagnation of the club's definitive stance over the manager in my eyes is a mark against INEOS already. I take it more seriously having run SME's and even a smaller corporation needs unanimous superintendence let alone an organization the size of United.
There is a ton of stuff happening at football clubs that fans have no clue about.
If you're asking broad stroke questions like "what non public information could there be" then there's another problem.
He has 1700+ posts defending EtH at practically all of them with the occasional, 'I am not particulary EtH in, but here there are 1000 reasons why we should stick with him'.
Better recruitment, better negotiation and ultimately better players.
If he’s lucky maybe more than one striker. Rashford might decide to start playing. Could even get a defensive midfielder the right side of 30 and a left back with two working legs.
That all seems good to be fair. Imagine that and a good manager too, and we actually might look good.
Ouch
The reality is any structure is going to take time to see real benefits and I’m sure we’ll still be making appoints in 6 months or more. They can’t make the manager better tactically, or make him motivate the players better, or make players believe in him and can’t change the fact everyone knows he is on the verge of the sack of the uncertainty/issues that brings.
A lot of people saying give him a chance under a new structure are going to be saying sack him within a few games/months next season even though he’ll of had minimal benefit from the structure.
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Are you seriously implying there isn’t lots of information and data available to the club and not us?
Please name anyone in our structure prior to this that you believe was best in class. @PoTMS
Funny you say that. the sentiment on here last season was that we had got a good one.
the ten hag out camp are literally like the football equivalent of Trump folk. They literally just make shit up it's actually brilliant.
I can’t think of anything worse than letting him him spend more time focussing on coaching and managing. So far, the more time he’s had to do that, the worse our football and the worse our results have got. Our best bet is getting him as far away from the coaching and managing as possible. A working midfield might suddenly appear.
Sure, it was Matt Judge, Richard Arnold and the Glazers that made him insist on spending £400m on utter crap and then coach us into the worst football team in the league. I'm sure getting a new CEO and football director will help, in particular with the latter.
Who cares. We could have the best CEO, DOF, and sporting directors football has ever seen. It wouldn't change the fact we'd still have a mediocre manager. Why on earth would you not want us to hire best in class in every role at the club?
Kid
that you even have to resort to this kind of nonsense.Yep. It happens that you think a manager looks good and then you realize he is shit.
Antony started promising last season too. Doesn't mean that he ain't a bit shit. And Casemiro looked next to Rodri the best DMF in the league, but now, I bet he isn't someone you want to have a team built around.
Yeah, everyone knows that trick where you are firmly on one side but pretend to ‘understand the other side’.
I think from the outside looking in you have been a massive defender of ten hag and everything that has gone wrong with excuses galore but occasionally drop a post saying you want him sacked too, just to be carefully placed on the fence
They literally just make shit up it's actually brilliant.
I know what the definition of sporting excellence is but my question is what does it look like? It sounds like PR bollocks. Stuff like 'putting the Manchester back in Manchester United'. What does that actually look like? You can't just say words and expect people to buy it without explaining what that will look like in practice.
It's fine mate, you don't have to explain what their roles are, I know that also. What I struggle to understand is how a technical director, DOF and CEO are going to make Ten Hag better at his job. For example, Berrada, the CEO, is responsible for the running of the entire organisation, signing off on budgets and involved in hiring/firing. Ten Hag won't stop playing without a midfield or running the players into the ground because he now exists at United. Same for Ashworth and Wilcox. Their roles are largely around recruitment, ensuring there's standardisation between reserve teams and first teams, and continuity in the skill sets our new incoming players, as well as removing players that don't meet the high demands of playing for United. All stuff that involves having a broad overview of the day to day running of the sports side.
Now all this is great, and exactly what we need but who's going to sit Ten Hag down and tell him that losing 19 games (so far) this season is totally unacceptable and doesn't meet the standards of sporting excellence the club is striving for? That falling out with all your players because you want to sell them isn't within his best interests? That picking the same 11 players week in, week out and forcing them to cover more ground that any other team is causing massive injury problems? That there is more than one way to play football and you don't need a left footed CB to win games? That you're allowed to make subs and change the game at any point if your plan isn't working?
Unless the new structure is going to start picking the team and tactics, and taking training, I fail to see how Ten Hag will ultimately become a better coach with structure. He's just going to get rumbled twice as fast and be gone before Christmas.
First and foremost, Ten Hag's job is to win games and get the most out of the players currently available to him. I honestly cannot see a scenario where he can do that, with or without structure in place.
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