I also agree we should have more but I also know the club is changing its recruitment team for a reason.
Does not change the fact saying the squad is in a worse place than when ETH started is completely false
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Does not change the fact saying the squad is in a worse place than when ETH started is completely false
Last summer we had someone constantly going on about how buying a ball playing goalkeeper, rather than a new striker, would mean we would score more goals (because "playing out of the back" or something), so you're not far off.
He was injured all this season that is clear.
And I think he would be in the conversation for top 6 CBs in the league given his whole career especially if you appreciate ball playing of which I would say he is in the top 2-3
So he's not then? My opinion is a fair one.
He's started 7 PL games. We conceded 13 goals in them.
The thing is, we have that ball-playing goalie going route one half the time.
It's not bad until you look at the GD along with the fixtures remaining. It won't stay that way. I don't think our attack is better, we have arguably sacrificed any midfield control in the hope we can out score the opposition. Don't overly disagree with that approach given how woeful we were in the opening half of the season. We've carried our CL strategy into the League. It's certainly no long term solution, nor is it effective.
Well he has the ball at his feet, and every outfield player stands still while they’re marked. He’s limited on choices here. Then the crowd gets on his back for holding on to the ball for too long, so partway through the game he’ll just start pumping it up to Hojlund instead.
There's a lot of discussion on mitigating circumstances and whether they are just excuses but not enough is made of just how bad we've really been this season. Our position is very flattering when taking into account "performances" we've been putting this whole season. Newcastle have scored 26 goals more than us. They've had injuries. Even Chelsea have scored 13 more. It's beyond ridiculous to blame it just on injuries and not to put huge question marks on coaching and the way we set up week in week out. Not good enough by any stretch of the imagination.
Both are bad. There are tons of coaches better.
There’s no point being rational mate. The lunatics on here won’t listen.
I’m just saying that claiming he’s inflexible but simultanously has abandoned his philosophy is a contradiction in terms.
Watkins and Isak wouldn't have cost much more than the exorbitant fee we agreed for a raw and unproven player in Hojlund. What was so special about Hojlund other than the fact he's young and physically resembled Haaland? Not even avid serie A watchers on this forum hyped him up as one to watch. After Ten Hags agency signed him and pushed him as a target he instantly became subject to the same powerful hype machine that had many here thinking Amrabat would solely solve our midfield woes when most clearly never watched them regularly beforehand. We overlooked much better players right here in the same league
I don't relate to any of this. We were defensively quite solid last season with Varane and Martinez playing together and Shaw deputising. Obviously Casemiro dropped off a cliff in the middle of last season and has not been the same since. And FdJ is great, but he hasn't been playing very well for us on account of living in Barcelona.
It was one game, and I don't think PSG would win the EPL anyway. They have a history of blowing up in European semi finals.
But when you say it doesn't matter why his system doesn't work, it very much does matter. Because it's quite clear that he has a plan and he does not have the players to deliver it. The response to that is not to sack him, it is to get the players he needs. But that takes time and we keep fekking up on transfers and injuries. For all we know Mason Mount would have been player of the year if he had stayed fit (but I doubt it).
At the end of the day ETH will get sacked. And he has made mistakes that very much are on him. I don't necessarily think he deserves to keep his job. But I also think if he does he will come good again. The main problem is the Glazer legacy. In a better run club I think he would have us comfortably in the top four on the same budget.
How do you watch our games and see this? Top sides look as though they can score every time they go forward, we are clueless in the final 3rd most of the time unless its a counter.
Slightly off-topic, is this the longest thread we've had for a manager on the caf post-Fergie?
We were, but rode our luck quite a lot and, in the end didn't give up many goals as a result. It obviously came undone a few times though. But I recall in the summer, when we were linked with Mount and Simon Stone tweeted saying ETH intends on pushing Mount further up next to Bruno and leaving Casemiro sitting, that myself and others were saying how we already looked susceptible on the counter and how this move would expose our weakness more. Look what happened.
Indeed, you'd think with the passing years and successive failed managers the cult of manager would die out. But here we are circa 2024 and there's still people banging on about Fergie getting 6 years in the 80's and saying every new manager (uniquely at United) needs 4-6 years to get us anywhere.
Says who?
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We’ll have to see how we do in the last few.
It’s not the long term solution and it’s not the same effective solution as better sides, but we’re not in a position to play our best yet.
Fair point, we shouldn't have given a relatively unproven manager the keys to the kingdom and let him direct our transfer business.
I can see why you say our squad isn't in a worse place vs 2 years ago. But I'm not sure if it is in a better place either. Now like 2 years ago it still needs a lot of investment, LB, CB (maybe 2), DM RW, ST at least needed this summer.
If everyone agrees on one thing it is that there is way too much space in midfield and that is created by the lack of a quality holding midfielder, and then made worse by the lack of a central defender willing to push up. The question is do we sit deep and counter attack or do we stick with the system and try and bring in new players from the youth system or via transfers. If we do the former then we have to sack ETH because clearly it will be over his dead body.
Isak and Watkins would have cost a little bit more yeah but Isak's stats weren't that amazing. Also, Watkins is in his prime and they went for the longer-term value instead in a player they fell can be better than Watkins. Not gonna knock that choice to get a potential world-class player who's much younger instead of a very good older player who won't get past that level.
Also, as seen with the Muani and Ramos fees, they were all gonna cost as much as each other so it was just preference in the end.
The real mistakes have been Casemiro and Antony. If the others are flops then fine but we paid market value for them. Those other two though? Way overblown prices.
I think Ole at 3.5 seasons
How do we know our CBs are unwilling to push up? Pretty sure somebody posted stats that showed Maguire and Lindelof pushed up higher under Ole than our defence is under ETH.
Higher under Ole is a low bar. We know they sit deep because we have eyes. They sit deep because they're old and/or slow. Talking about Maguire, Veron, Evans, Lindelof.
No it happened with Moyes too, trust me
Yeah but do you know they're not being asked to do this? There's examples of older or not particularly pacey CBs playing in a high line. Look at one of the teams in the CL Semis for a start, and our CBs look rapid in comparison.
Oh dear.
I wasn't overly active back then because things were so grimm. I always just thought that surely it was unanimous with fans agreeing that Moyes was useless.
What we do know is that ETH couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag but still there are numbers on here willing to make every excuse under the sun... reality bites, ir has this season at least
I assume they can't do it in the EPL because they're too slow and turn like oil tankers so a ball past them and they are in a losing foot race. I have heard it said we have a much faster paced game than other leagues.
Sack watch.
For the 23-24 season, his record:
P47 W23 D7 L17 48.9%
Ole in 21-22 season:
P17 W7 D3 L7 41.17%
Jose in 18-19:
P24 W10 D6 L8 41.6%
For the 23-24 season, his record:
P47 W23 D7 L17 48.9%
Ole in 21-22 season:
P17 W7 D3 L7 41.17%
Jose in 18-19:
P24 W10 D6 L8 41.6%
I’ve not made any excuses for him. I’ve admitted he’s underperforming massively the last 18 months. We could be 8th this time tomorrow. That’s pathetic considering the players he’s had available
But there also needs to be some context, those above haven’t helped him.
Ten Hag’s fan boys won’t have this as an excuse. They won’t have anything as an excuse. He is our worst manager since SAF who got a very lucky cup run last season. Since his methods have kicked in we have been woeful. But yeah, let’s give him another shot next season eh?
Outside of the Caf, he’s not rated hugely. He’s been ever present in our big pastings these last 2 seasons. Good defender, no more.
Yep. None of City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Everton would want to swap their LCB for him.
Shouldn't assume. If the defence had been disobeying such a critical instruction all season then I think we'd know about it. Besides, I watched Dortmund with a high line against Mbappe just a few days ago. Matts Hummels is slow as treacle, but there's a level of coaching and organisation that can make it possible. They finished top of their CL group ahead of Milan, PSG and Newcastle, facing Mbappe, Kolo Muani, O. Dembele, Leao, Izak, Gordon, Almiron etc. So it's not inconceivable to be able to play a high line and high intensity press with slower players at CB.
So what's the truth of the matter? Has ETH decided to let them get away with it all season? If your manager is asking and asking you to push up, surely you push up and the consequences are on his shoulders. I don't believe they've just ignored it because they're scared or whatever. So if he's asked them to play this way, which is more likely, and he's out here telling us he's not wavering from his style just because of injuries, then what a tangled web he's weaving.
I mean, there are three possibilities:
1. He has his system, but not the players to deliver it, as you say.
2. He doesn’t have a system or his system is crap / inherently flawed.
3. He has his system, but has a hard time communicating it and installing it.
In scenarios #2 and #3, he has to get sacked. In scenario #1, if you believe it, the low end of the financial risk is another 300m (100m in lost revenue and another 200m in players).
now that we have a proper structure installed, this is a pretty big call by Berrada. You could get sacked if you make the wrong choice. As they build the talent pipeline like Brighton, the manager/ head coach will be easier to replace.
Wtf is this? If you're a United fan, have a word. If you're not, well the forum rules don't allow me to tell you where you can place that liar's bald head.
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