stevoc
Full Member
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Read Fergies book
I've read both of them but it's been a few years. It was a genuine question, do you have any examples.
Read Fergies book
Supposedly they didn’t like him in the Netherlands either, so it seems his Dutch isn’t much cop.
What makes it worse is once you realise it’s all guff it’s even harder.
When you watch that interview you do feel that good chances are he'll be staying. Don't think his argument about injuries not letting us play well is strong, it all looked bad first game of the season against Wolves already. But do think there were positive signs against Spurs and Arsenal and haven't seen that since though obviously Martinez and Shaw have been injured basically all the time ever since.
My worry is that if we keep ten Hag, we'll just end up sacking him 6 months later like was the case with van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.
"This year, we wanted to make the next step. We bought in a goalkeeper who can play out from the back, a dynamic midfielder in Mason Mount - who has been injured all season - and a goalscorer in Hojlund who is young and needed the time.
"Then Casemiro was injured for a long period. We had so many issues in the team that you can't always play the way you want to play.
Kendrick saying "I'm the biggest hater, I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, I hate the way that you dress, I hate the way that you sneak diss" is starting to feel so relatable to me. The thought of him being here another year - I'm so mudded. My head's gone
Mount was injured when we signed him wasn't he? I think Højlund was as well.It was painfully obvious we needed proper cover for Casemiro in the summer, and we spent the midfield budget on an injury prone forward to play in midfield instead. He lists these reasons as if it's out of his control, this was his doing.
Pretty sure he was.Mount was injured when we signed him wasn't he? I think Højlund was as well.
Fair point mate. I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve just said. Everyone’s gonna have different opinions for different reasons… I said it before to someone, Moyes was Worse in terms of having a better squad or a winning squad if you like. This season is by far the worse in terms of GD. Goals scored and goals conceded… and getting dominated on shots by bottom half teams.
I’ve asked this multiple times and nobody seems to be able to clarify it. I keep hearing “United missing out on CL is massive for FFP” but no discussion of figures outside of the money we won’t be able to get in the CL.
United seldom ever make it to the QFs of the CL. To get to the QFs I think it’s something like 50 million. That’s being ambitious cause we’ve only been there a few times in 11 years. But as mentioned there is a 25% player salary clause that means United will save 50 million in wages.
So being in europa you still get a few quid and you get gate receipts. Where exactly are United missing out financially big time by not getting CL football ?
It would be a disaster to sack him in 6 months. It'll be even harder to replace him. And we'll have the same masochists saying give him till x date, then y date, then z date, as we had all the way through this season.
I think your overall point is important but the figures are off.
Chelsea last year made the QFs and made 95m euro in CL revenue, or about 82m pounds. A similar performance in the Europa League nets you around 25m euro or 20m pounds, so there is roughly a 60m pound difference.
From what I understand the contractual bonuses for making CL are not nearly as high as 25% for most players. You'll save a little bit on the wage bill but not nearly as much as 25% in aggregate. If you look at data on wage bills over time the trend lines are relatively smooth even when clubs are falling in and out of the CL, there aren't these big jumps up and down like what you would see if the savings were really significant.
For many commercial deals, there are bonuses for making the CL. So what you save in wages is offset to some degree by what you lose in commercial revenue.
6.16 in Carrington out nowKendrick saying "I'm the biggest hater, I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, I hate the way that you dress, I hate the way that you sneak diss" is starting to feel so relatable to me. The thought of him being here another year - I'm so mudded. My head's gone
Mount was injured when we signed him wasn't he? I think Højlund was as well.
I think when fans have made their minds up on a player/manager , it doesn’t really matter what they do or say at that stage. Not accusing you by to the way, we all do it.
If ETH says “look at that tackle, he could have killed him”, fans would be going mad. Fergie says it, it’s kind of funny and who gives a f**k, it’s riling up rivals and taking focus off our team so well done SAF.
Anthony has actually not done terrible the last few weeks, but fans are like “it doesn’t matter, he’s crap, too late”. But even if it’s too late for him to recover, shouldn’t we just not give him crap when he’s doing ok ?
Again, I’ve done stuff like this before, but it’s mad how we all rationalise our emotional responses to different things.
Disagree. He's been extremely defensive in recent interviews, to the point he has started talking total shite that everyone knows isn't true, even the people who defend him. He does not sound like someone who has been given any assurances to me at all. If they really do believe in him that much then nothing would be stopping them from backing him publicly or even extending his contract now.100%. Behind the scenes he will have been assured he’s completely safe and will get as much time as he needs, hence all recent comments and being so bullish in interviews. He is here 2-3 more years regardless of results. There is zero chance we sack him in 6 months if we keep him, if we keep him it’s for the long haul. We will have basically already declared this season meaningless and let’s be honest, there is little chance of next being even worse. We will probably improve to 5th place and that will be enough.
I think they are merely waiting on season to end to announce a 3-year contract extension until 2028.
Heres a hypothetical for you.
Let’s say this summer is alot about purging players and maybe getting in longer term quality players. So let’s say ETH is working with INEOs to help rebuild in a manner where INEOs are getting the club/squad in a position whereby replacing managers can be done fast and the squad will be in a solid position regardless of replacement.
So next season , regardless of manager , is not about top 4 or winning cups, but primarily about restructuring everything for a longer term sustainable plan. Even mid table is a possibility depending on sales.
Would you be ok with ETH, if it was felt keeping him has zero meaningful impact on their longer term plans and effectively they see him as an interim with the option to extend/replace next summer depending on how well he manages what he has next season ? Even the extra 20
Million + in sacking and replacing coaches , could get us one of extra young player.
You might not like it and think ETH isn’t good enough , but can you see the why that may be a possible reason why INEOs would keep him for the time being ?
I actually dislike people who continue to defend ten Hag more than the man himself at this point. There's only really 4-5 of you in this thread these days.
You yourself made up your mind that the structure is to blame for most things and push that narrative regularly. Come rain or shine.
ten Hag being a success going forward would mean that he'd have to start doing the opposite of pretty much everything we've seen for over a year now. That would piss me off, seeing someone rewarded for his failings.
Look at the number of players who have improved under ETH vs players who have regressed under ETH? Has even one player performed up to their potential? Even Mainoo now seems to be regressing. This is the exact opposite of what should happen under an effective coach and training. How the club are persisting with this guy is absolutely mind-blowing.
How many players have improved at United since 2013? Almost like there’s some man United infection ?
Maybe Mainoo is a young player who has played more then he was supposed to and like ALL young players will go through inconsistent patches ?
Im not defending him, I’m asking a question and wondering how much the clubs issues have affected this season. Not being completely sure on ETH is simply accepting there are other variables making it difficult for me to be absolutely confident replacing him is imperative relative to where the club is.
Asking;
- how have injuries affected things
- how has club sale affected things ?
- how have multiple player dramas affected things ?
- how has taking over an already dysfunctional club affected things ?
Is not “a defence of ETH”. It’s asking how reasonable it is to compare Uniteds progress with other clubs who don’t have all these things going on the last 18 months.
You and many others, being absolutely 100% confident in your opinion on him is your business. But it feels like there’s an insecurity in this belief when some people don’t seem to be able to add nuances or even wonder if maybe things aren’t as clear cut on ETH. Doubt in most things , especially when we aren’t privy to all the facts INEOs are, is prudent.
Stop trying to lower standards. Are you a rival supporter hibernating all these years?I’ve asked this multiple times and nobody seems to be able to clarify it. I keep hearing “United missing out on CL is massive for FFP” but no discussion of figures outside of the money we won’t be able to get in the CL.
United seldom ever make it to the QFs of the CL. To get to the QFs I think it’s something like 50 million. That’s being ambitious cause we’ve only been there a few times in 11 years. But as mentioned there is a 25% player salary clause that means United will save 50 million in wages.
So being in europa you still get a few quid and you get gate receipts. Where exactly are United missing out financially big time by not getting CL football ?
How many players have improved at United since 2013? Almost like there’s some man United infection ?
Maybe Mainoo is a young player who has played more then he was supposed to and like ALL young players will go through inconsistent patches ?
I don’t trust ETH to recruit the right players or his matchday tactics.
Heres a hypothetical for you.
Let’s say this summer is alot about purging players and maybe getting in longer term quality players. So let’s say ETH is working with INEOs to help rebuild in a manner where INEOs are getting the club/squad in a position whereby replacing managers can be done fast and the squad will be in a solid position regardless of replacement.
So next season , regardless of manager , is not about top 4 or winning cups, but primarily about restructuring everything for a longer term sustainable plan. Even mid table is a possibility depending on sales.
Would you be ok with ETH, if it was felt keeping him has zero meaningful impact on their longer term plans and effectively they see him as an interim with the option to extend/replace next summer depending on how well he manages what he has next season ? Even the extra 20
Million + in sacking and replacing coaches , could get us one of extra young player.
You might not like it and think ETH isn’t good enough , but can you see the why that may be a possible reason why INEOs would keep him for the time being ?
He's an 18 year old that's been playing in a broken team and with no real midfield partner for the most part. I don't think his performance levels have dipped I just think some games we simply get over ran.Look at the number of players who have improved under ETH vs players who have regressed under ETH? Has even one player performed up to their potential? Even Mainoo now seems to be regressing. This is the exact opposite of what should happen under an effective coach and training. How the club are persisting with this guy is absolutely mind-blowing.
But this doesn't really add up - having a concentrated back four with Lisandro, Shaw, and Varane fully fit for big portions really helped, but the overarching reason why we were good last season defensively is because of the tactical set up. We lined up a lot deeper, and our midfield shape was a lot tighter.His answer to the too many shots on goal question was the main one though. I suggest everyone listen to that. He blames the lack of a consistent back 4 and that it has led to a lack of possession which affects the whole team. Also says we aren't suited to be a defensive team which is interesting and I think an indictment of our lack of physicality and aggression
But this doesn't really add up - having a concentrated back four with Lisandro, Shaw, and Varane fully fit for big portions really helped, but the overarching reason why we were good last season defensively is because of the tactical set up. We lined up a lot deeper, and our midfield shape was a lot tighter.
Having our first choice back four in this tactical set up with the midfield chasm isn't changing that much, I don't think.
Im not defending him, I’m asking a question and wondering how much the clubs issues have affected this season. Not being completely sure on ETH is simply accepting there are other variables making it difficult for me to be absolutely confident replacing him is imperative relative to where the club is.
Asking;
- how have injuries affected things
- how has club sale affected things ?
- how have multiple player dramas affected things ?
- how has taking over an already dysfunctional club affected things ?
Is not “a defence of ETH”. It’s asking how reasonable it is to compare Uniteds progress with other clubs who don’t have all these things going on the last 18 months.
You and many others, being absolutely 100% confident in your opinion on him is your business. But it feels like there’s an insecurity in this belief when some people don’t seem to be able to add nuances or even wonder if maybe things aren’t as clear cut on ETH. Doubt in most things , especially when we aren’t privy to all the facts INEOs are, is prudent.
Playing in a low block is not something the club wants going forward; that decision has been made and Ten Hag has decided not to revert to it even in light of the injuries, because he wants the squad to keep working on it.Completely agree with your analysis on the tactics.
The dying on the hill though is the biggest worry. He has decided this years tactics "suit" the squad he has. And the reason he hasn't done short term changes to a defensive shape is because when people come back to fitness, he believes the current style will suit the squad.
I just cant see it at all. All of our attackers are better suited to counter attacks with space in behind to attack. None of our midfielders have the legs to play the solo 6 role. Our back 4 (especially CBs) are really slow and unsuited to a high line. We are almost perfectly suited to a deep block counter style, and completely unsuited for high press or intricate build up. Boggles the mind he cant see it.
Clearly I have time on my hands but I've gone through the fixtures from this season and last season. I didn't watch every game and will have forgotten some performances, but I'd say these were really good performances:How many really good performances have we had under ETH since he's been here ?
But this doesn't really add up - having a concentrated back four with Lisandro, Shaw, and Varane fully fit for big portions really helped, but the overarching reason why we were good last season defensively is because of the tactical set up. We lined up a lot deeper, and our midfield shape was a lot tighter.
Having our first choice back four in this tactical set up with the midfield chasm isn't changing that much, I don't think.
100%. Behind the scenes he will have been assured he’s completely safe and will get as much time as he needs, hence all recent comments and being so bullish in interviews. He is here 2-3 more years regardless of results. There is zero chance we sack him in 6 months if we keep him, if we keep him it’s for the long haul. We will have basically already declared this season meaningless and let’s be honest, there is little chance of next being even worse. We will probably improve to 5th place and that will be enough.
I think they are merely waiting on season to end to announce a 3-year contract extension until 2028.
The Cantona one was a prime exampleI've read both of them but it's been a few years. It was a genuine question, do you have any examples.
It is becoming more obvious that he is staying. This week we had;
1. Rumours how Ineos want him to stay in couple of media
2. His big interview with Neville
3. He is planning summer transfers with Wilcox
If he is going to be fired then Ineos would be sending different picture in public.