And our season opener vs Wolves where we were extremely fortunate to win.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yeah… who did Ancelotti have in that Everton squad that he got to 59 points?
Wolves game, first match of the season. First XI and the same signs were there then about being far too disjointed/open in midfield.
Martinez, Varane and Shaw started against Newport and even they had 17 shots.
Come on Erik.
Martinez, Varane and Shaw started against Newport and even they had 17 shots.
Come on Erik.
I’ve asked this multiple times and nobody seems to be able to clarify it. I keep hearing “United missing out on CL is massive for FFP” but no discussion of figures outside of the money we won’t be able to get in the CL.
United seldom ever make it to the QFs of the CL. To get to the QFs I think it’s something like 50 million. That’s being ambitious cause we’ve only been there a few times in 11 years. But as mentioned there is a 25% player salary clause that means United will save 50 million in wages.
So being in europa you still get a few quid and you get gate receipts. Where exactly are United missing out financially big time by not getting CL football ?
How many really good performances have we had under ETH since he's been here ?
I agree with your main point but just on the bolded bit - "many games" is a huge stretch. I went 3 months without seeing a goal at my end of the stadium as Van Gaal went in 0-0 at HT in several consecutive matches whilst scraping a 1-0 win in the second half. The only games I can recall us playing "fantastic football" was that 3 week spell in his first season where we comfortably beat Spurs, Liverpool (Juanfield) and City.
I've had far more enjoyable memories under Ten Hag than under Van Gaal. And I'm reluctant to replace Ten Hag with a defensive minded manager.
It was said thousand times that game was a freak result, we were even in the first half, then the second half was something I have never seen in my 30 years of watching football. Freakiest and most unrealistic result I have ever witnessed. Anyone clinging to that particular result is just looking for an agenda at this point.
So no, it makes no sense for Neville to bring up that game. Only internet warriors care about that game.
He could bring up the fact that our play and results have nosedived since that result and never recovered.
This. Also we get enough reminders from the scousers about that game without needing our ex-players to constantly bring it up.
Yeah it was meaningless given the amazing way we bounced back. It should only be considered relevant had we dropped off a cliff after that and stank it up for a year.
I would also expect lots of big bonuses get paid out for good performances in the CL.
I think it's likely that we lose out financially by not being in the CL, but especially with a marketable club like we are, it's probably diluted. I guess you could look at our finances for seasons when in and not in the CL, but then we probably spend more the summer before CL seasons, so it makes it hard to work out
That’s it , I’d be interested to see revenues this season to last when the dust settles. Just annoying when you read headlines about how much United are gonna lose our financially with no meaningful info on why.
Just watched his interview. Loads of people won’t like it and I didn’t agree with everything he’s said but I think he’s bang on more often than not. I’ve said all season that we could potentially have got more points being a more pragmatic side, but long term if we really aspire to challenge for titles, we have to stick to a attacking/dominating vision. Yes it’s been chaotic, but the signs are there that with better players, first choice players fit we will be a significantly better team. The one occasion we had our first team out we played really well and showed real promise. Teams don’t build overnight and building relationships is what it’s all about, we just haven’t had the chance to do this at all this season. I’d still back him to try one more season, because I think there’s a chance that with the right recruitment over the summer we make big strides again!
if you Google “Manchester United 25% wage cut” there are a few websites that come up. I’m sure I read it confirmed on the athletic too, but wouldn’t know which article now
1992.
That might be your opinion. It was a squad which arguably the greatest manager of all time had wrung the best out of. Moyes was a disaster, but in my opinion, this is worse. To see how far we've fallen is one thing, but fans who try to justify it, I just don't understand. How have standards fallen so far.
Dreadful squad, with a handful of players actually of the right level.
Shambolic, and frankly embarrassing, CL performance.
No structure and total inability to control any game, even against relegation fodder. Setting up wide open and conceding record numbers of shots against bottom half teams, week after week is totally unstainable and the proof of what you get is in the performances and results.
And a manager, who alongside his bizarre in game decision making, still won't acknowledge that it isn't working.
If this was Liverpool we'd all be shouting for their board to give Ten Hag another year.
I'm gutted Ten Hag has failed so badly because we're back to square one, only with brutal FFP implications because of the money wasted. The first half of last season I thought he was going to be a great appointment. He seemed to have brought a discipline to the squad, and came across as someone who had a plan. That plan seems to have been abandoned because it sure as shit can't have been to go away to average PL teams and conceded 25 shots a game.
So, even if you think Moyes was worse, which is a reasonable opinion - how does that makes this any better?
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When you watch that interview you do feel that good chances are he'll be staying. Don't think his argument about injuries not letting us play well is strong, it all looked bad first game of the season against Wolves already. But do think there were positive signs against Spurs and Arsenal and haven't seen that since though obviously Martinez and Shaw have been injured basically all the time ever since.
My worry is that if we keep ten Hag, we'll just end up sacking him 6 months later like was the case with van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.
My worry is that if we keep ten Hag, we'll just end up sacking him 6 months later like was the case with van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.
100%. Behind the scenes he will have been assured he’s completely safe and will get as much time as he needs, hence all recent comments and being so bullish in interviews. He is here 2-3 more years regardless of results. There is zero chance we sack him in 6 months if we keep him, if we keep him it’s for the long haul. We will have basically already declared this season meaningless and let’s be honest, there is little chance of next being even worse. We will probably improve to 5th place and that will be enough.
I think they are merely waiting on season to end to announce a 3-year contract extension until 2028.
Between 2004 and 2010 Real were a bit of a mess even in Europe. But since then they've sorted that out
The core group of the Real team now is almost always full of quality players. Even if they are a bit shit at worst they're going to finish second or third in La Liga. They've only really outside the top 2 in a few seasons out of the last 20. They will always have the appeal of CL football. That's not really the same for other teams in other leagues aside from maybe Bayern.
Their transfer strategy is very clear, just buy the best players available at a good age and keep them for as long as possible. Even the last few years they've just gone out and bought the best up and coming players for almost every position.
And they'll win the league 9 times out of 10 anyway, because they have the best squad by a mile. They'll pick off a couple of Leverkusen players this year.
I find him very difficult to listen to.
Supposedly they didn’t like him in the Netherlands either, so it seems his Dutch isn’t much cop.
What makes it worse is once you realise it’s all guff it’s even harder.
Yeah read that a few times that in the Netherlands they struggled with him, like communications isn't a strong suit.
Listening to his interview right now and a few times he just waffles. I appreciate it's not his first language but some of the stuff he's said so far is just words for words sake.
The interview is meaningless in terms of his future, he will be carrying on planning for next season in same way any other manager in his position would. It’s very unlikely he’s been given meaningful assurances about his job because we could about to finish 8th and have our worst ever PL season.
No one has backed him in public because at best they are undecided whether they keep him or not and most likely he’s already finished.
That will be the biggest worry for INEOS as well because if they keep him and we’re not in the top 4 straight away there will be huge pressure to get rid of him and then even if they do sack him that looks awful for them as well.
And reach at least the CL semis every season.
Fair point mate. I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve just said. Everyone’s gonna have different opinions for different reasons… I said it before to someone, Moyes was Worse in terms of having a better squad or a winning squad if you like. This season is by far the worse in terms of GD. Goals scored and goals conceded… and getting dominated on shots by bottom half teams.
It depends how much they care about the public perception. But yes, if they care about it, the safe option is to sack him. Even if the next manager is a disaster, no one can say 'if only we have kept EtH', same as how we do not say 'if only we would have kept Rangnick' despite that EtH was an even bigger disaster.
If they keep him, I guess they're convinced that he'll turn things around. In which case, I would say bring back Ed Woodward, cause thinking that EtH will suddenly become good here is quite insane.
Just watch it. A lot of good questions are asked and answered.
The biggest takeaway for me: the explanation of why we continued playing attacking football even though we didn‘t have the personnel fit to do it with.
They were on his back in Amsterdam because 'he is too rural' for their likings in the first few months. Once the players started listening and understanding, however, everyone loved him and he dominated the league and did wonderful in Europe. His communication might sound a little unnatural, but it's ridiculous to judge him for that; he get's his points across to his players (he did everywhere before United) and that's what matters. Maybe some of those players who think they are better than they play don't think they need to be tactically coached?
I don't get the point of most people here that injuries don't hamper the style United can play. Players like AWB, Maguire, Varane, McTom etcetera are not very capable of playing attacking, front foot football. If the core of the players that can (Shaw, Martinez, a fully fit Casemiro) are more available, things look different. Look at the game against West Ham from the start of februari to see a clear style of play with those players in.
I've seen his Ajax team in the stadium maybe 10 times and seen most of his games on TV and the way United dominated and suffocated each opposition was really a sight to behold. He had an average close to 2.4 points per game, scoring over 100 goals in 34 games in 2 out of 3 full seasons, scoring 98 in the other (and not counting the aborted covid season), winning 3 titles in a row (4 with the covid one). When everyone can and will do what is asked of him, I still believe United have an unbelievable manager. Maybe it's nostalgia to those days, maybe it's hope to see United play a certain way that has been long lost at this great club. I'd hate for him to be sacked, as much as I hate watching United play currently. I just think, hope? there's a chance he turns it around.
I don't get the point of most people here that injuries don't hamper the style United can play. Players like AWB, Maguire, Varane, McTom etcetera are not very capable of playing attacking, front foot football. If the core of the players that can (Shaw, Martinez, a fully fit Casemiro) are more available, things look different. Look at the game against West Ham from the start of februari to see a clear style of play with those players in.
I've seen his Ajax team in the stadium maybe 10 times and seen most of his games on TV and the way United dominated and suffocated each opposition was really a sight to behold. He had an average close to 2.4 points per game, scoring over 100 goals in 34 games in 2 out of 3 full seasons, scoring 98 in the other (and not counting the aborted covid season), winning 3 titles in a row (4 with the covid one). When everyone can and will do what is asked of him, I still believe United have an unbelievable manager. Maybe it's nostalgia to those days, maybe it's hope to see United play a certain way that has been long lost at this great club. I'd hate for him to be sacked, as much as I hate watching United play currently. I just think, hope? there's a chance he turns it around.
Yeah football under LVG was mind numbing but at least we could defend back then. And it always seemed like an event when we had a shot on goal
Indeed. It's as close to a one team league as you'll see. Alonso has worked wonders this year. Bayern will sign of few of their rivals best players with a year left on their contract and probably win the title next year.
Excuses excuses excuses.
Was this addressed in that interview? I doubt it. It's fallen away for very obvious easy excuses that he has indulged himself within.
Not only were his main defenders playing -- his ideal midfield too. Fernandes, Mount, Casemiro.
Sounded to me like he knows he's staying on. My condolences to those who want him sacked
They all sound like that.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/25/david-moyes-planning-for-future-manchester-united
I don't get HOW he's going to get to 30 goals when we barely create any chances for him to score ?
Did Garry ask him that type of question ?
All of that's fine, but the PL is a totally different level. Putting aside Ten Hag specifically, it's an inescapable fact that the vast majority of managers who get to the very top level, prove not to be good enough and last only a few seasons. Those who do find a top manager battle to keep him, but it's rare.
What he did with Ajax, he's already said he can't do here. The problem seems to be he doesn't know what else to do. Top football managers are adaptable.
Maybe not I don't know for sure ppg/win ratio wise. But it's a depressing thought that 2 years on we're right back were we were. 2 years, 4 windows and hundreds of millions wasted. feck this season.
Decent interview with Neville. Doesn’t change my mind about him but it was interesting to hear him elaborate a bit. The fact I even bothered to listen to the dullest man in the world for 30 minutes must mean Gary did a good job.
We lost 7-0 to Liverpool under this manager. He shouldnt be anywhere near that seat.
Weird that he mentioned De Jong next to Casemiro as we were always told the latter was signed instead of, and that he wasn't an ETH signing. Just creates more questions, such as if Casemiro was part of the plan, why not go for somebody similar to FdJ last summer? And does this mean that Casemiro was an ETH signing after all?
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