Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Chairman Steve]

It is becoming more obvious that he is staying. This week we had;
1. Rumours how Ineos want him to stay in couple of media
2. His big interview with Neville
3. He is planning summer transfers with Wilcox

If he is going to be fired then Ineos would be sending different picture in public.

Personally I think they’re downplaying it and not giving the media anything to report on by putting on a united front (no pun intended).

However if he was to stay, then a significant player cull and recruitment drive needs to take place in the summer for me to be somewhat on board, and even then I would say it’s a risk to keep going with him despite the new players because who‘s to say the first game of the next season will be like the first game of this season? He will be under fairly intense pressure first game of the season.

 

[OldTrevil]

I liked the interview. We have indeed seen that the team can achieve high levels no matter whether it is only for a half or a 30 min spell. People who've already made up their mind that he should be sacked would never admit it, but we do know his style of play even though many a time things break down as soon as we try to progress the ball into midfield.

The challenge his team has failed to meet thus far is consistency in performance and mental application, however, achieving it at the levels we've seen, would lead to title contending form so it is not shocking that they are still stuggling with it in the second season. Also, bringing in good young players during a transition period means you must naturally give it time for that foundation to set, while you're getting rid of the players that don't meet the standards among other things. His constant reminder about the process in answering many questions is definitely legitimate and sensible, only the people with behind the scenes access could reasonably dismiss it if it wasn't visible in how the team was actually being trained.

I have gripes with EtH especially his in-game management and treatment of undeperformers, but the positives I see in the way he wants to play and the team he's started to build during such a chaotic period is still compelling to back him. The barrage of injuries is clear in itself to affect the team massively, the fact he needs to mention it as often is an indication of the crazed media enviornment than anything else.

 

[Blood Mage]

100%. Behind the scenes he will have been assured he’s completely safe and will get as much time as he needs, hence all recent comments and being so bullish in interviews. He is here 2-3 more years regardless of results. There is zero chance we sack him in 6 months if we keep him, if we keep him it’s for the long haul. We will have basically already declared this season meaningless and let’s be honest, there is little chance of next being even worse. We will probably improve to 5th place and that will be enough.

I think they are merely waiting on season to end to announce a 3-year contract extension until 2028.

I can't tell if this guy is trying to do a reverse jinx or something.

 

[Remember the geese]

I can't tell if this guy is trying to do a reverse jinx or something.

Just a massive WUM.

 

[Beachryan]

Interview was a good shout from all sides imo. If nothing else, it's extremely clear he gets how poor we've been, and that it can't continue.

Interesting to hear his focus on certain types of players and being unable to change them. I find that really telling. Can just imagine how frustrated it must be trying to coach players for 2 years and getting nowhere, when you've had success in the past.

Also he's obsessed with having a stable back 4. We've had the opposite this seaon, and he's clearly been unable to adjust to that.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

It highlights my naivete that I would probably prefer him to be sacked but when listening to this interview with him I kind of want him to get another season to see what he can achieve.

Turn it off Dave, turn it off.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Apparently West Ham, who are five points behind us currently, have had talks to replace their manager. If we're fine with where we are then that will really say a lot.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Clearly I have time on my hands but I've gone through the fixtures from this season and last season. I didn't watch every game and will have forgotten some performances, but I'd say these were really good performances:

• Chelsea (H) - PL 23/24
• Crystal Palace (H) EFL Cup 23/24
• Real Betis (H) EL 22/23
• Spurs (H) PL 22/23

I thought the Barcelona ties were really positive and given the level of opposition you might call it a really good performance from what I recall they also had their fair share on chances in both legs.

I think last season we had a lot of good performances - not necessarily stand out performances but plenty of good wins with 7/10 performances where we deserved to win without us looking particularly impressive.

The two Barca ties, especially at the Camp Nou, were particularly promising. Also both home and away games against Leicester City were encouraging.

So, from last season , the games I watched.
Liverpool H
Leicester H/A
Barca H/A
Betis H
Spurs H
Chelsea H/A

This season the good performances though are in real short supply.
Maybe Villa at home and Palace in the cup where we've reached a possible 7/10 overall.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

If your gonna compare points then let’s have a look at when we finished 3rd with ole and only had 66 pts and then the year before that we finished 6th on 66 pts. The points only tell you how good the other teams around you have been aswell, since getting 3rd on the same points you got when finishing 6th means the teams when we finished 3rd must have been bad around us. As for the CL, yes we’ve had a bad campaign but can you really compare it to a group where we had Leverkusen who weren’t good back then, sociedad and shakhtar? This year we had Bayern, Galatasaray who are better than your making them out to be and have won there league. We got screwed over by a red against Copenhagen. But I agree this is by far the worse season in regards to GD.

I somewhat agree with your take on league positions and points accumulated. The position can indeed paint a false picture depending on the overall strength of the league in a given season. Ten Hag's haul of 75 points to end last season on third is actually our second best tally in the post Ferguson era. Mourinho getting 2nd on 80 points was more impressive.

I do however disagree with this argument that 2013 Leverkusen, Shakhtar and Sociedad were weaker than current day Galatasaray

Shakhtar had a burgeoning contingent of Brazilians like Taison, Tiexiera, Luiz Adriano and Douglas Costa.

Sociedad similary were going through a great spell and had young players on the ascendancy which included the likes of Antoine Greizmann, Carlos Vela and Claudio Bravo

Galatasaray on the other hand have players in the twilight of their careers like Zaha and Icardi. Talented players who never quite fulfilled their early potential and should be playing for bigger clubs. They also have PL and Chelsea cast off and allegedly overweight and out of shape Ndombele

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

It highlights my naivete that I would probably prefer him to be sacked but when listening to this interview with him I kind of want him to get another season to see what he can achieve.

Turn it off Dave, turn it off.

I thought the interview was a load of crap.

But there are obviously a few fans like yourself based on the last page or two. So in that sense, it's working for ten Hag.

Watch some highlights of recent games to remind yourself how shit we are. People seem to forget that inbetween games. It'll have been a 9 day gap between Burnley and Palace.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I thought the interview was a load of crap.

But there are obviously a few fans like yourself based on the last page or two. So in that sense, it's working for ten Hag.

Watch some highlights of recent games to remind yourself how shit we are. People seem to forget that inbetween games. It'll have been a 9 day gap between Burnley and Palace.

Tbf, I am finding it slightly odd how some fans generally forget just how unbelievably shite we are at the present in all facets of our play.

 

[Lee565]

The only thing that could change my mind on eth being given next season is if he can show us in the fa cup final of being able to tactically compete with pep and that doesn't mean just sitting back deep the whole game in the hope of nicking a goal with some individualmoment of brilliance like we did in the last game against them.

If he can genuinely go toe to toe with pep in the same way liverpool have and even villa then I would be open to him staying.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Interview was a good shout from all sides imo. If nothing else, it's extremely clear he gets how poor we've been, and that it can't continue.

Interesting to hear his focus on certain types of players and being unable to change them. I find that really telling. Can just imagine how frustrated it must be trying to coach players for 2 years and getting nowhere, when you've had success in the past.

Also he's obsessed with having a stable back 4. We've had the opposite this seaon, and he's clearly been unable to adjust to that.

Not rotating enough last season was an issue.

Pep regularly chops and changes his defence. It can be any combination of Gvardiol, Aké, Dias, Stones, Akanji or Walker. They'll very rarely ever play 2-3 games in a row together.

Having a settled CB pairing helps, in my opinion. But you do have to rotate and rest players. Particularly the full-backs. Gabriel and Saliba are the best CB duo in the league. But Arsenal have used 3 different LBs all season, depending on availability and the opposition. Zinchenko, Tomiyasu and Kiwior. Timber would have rotated with White if he didn't suffer a season ending injury 1 game in.

 

[JPRouve]

Not rotating enough last season was an issue.

Pep regularly chops and changes his defence. It can be any combination of Gvardiol, Aké, Dias, Stones, Akanji or Walker. They'll very rarely ever play 2-3 games in a row together.

Having a settled CB pairing helps, in my opinion. But you do have to rotate and rest players. Particularly the full-backs. Gabriel and Saliba are the best CB duo in the league. But Arsenal have used 3 different LBs all season, depending on availability and the opposition. Zinchenko, Tomiyasu and Kiwior. Timber would have rotated with White if he didn't suffer a season ending injury 1 game in.

This reminds me one of SAF silly records, I don't know where it ended but at some point it was at 99 consecutive games with a different starting eleven.

 

[hobbers]

How many really good performances have we had under ETH since he's been here ?

Early wins against Liverpool 2-1 and Arsenal 3-1 were good counterpunch underdog performances. 30% possession but more chances. Would have been peak Ole and Mourinho games.

4-1 and 2-1 wins vs Chelsea. 2-0 vs Spurs.

Barca and Betis games.


Wouldnt count EFL cup games against second string Palace/lower league sides. Also wouldnt count the wins vs Villa because we got battered in most of them and got lucky with dismal finishing.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

I thought the interview was a load of crap.

But there are obviously a few fans like yourself based on the last page or two. So in that sense, it's working for ten Hag.

Watch some highlights of recent games to remind yourself how shit we are. People seem to forget that inbetween games. It'll have been a 9 day gap between Burnley and Palace.

I've not forgotten how hilarious the team has been this year. I just constantly give people the benefit of the doubt because I like to believe the best in them. Realistically, nothing adequately explains to me all that's happened this season even though there are some mitigating factors. I said this a month ago:

Regardless of everything else, injuries or whatever, teams just keep running through our midfield as if it isn't there. He has not done anything to combat that. Even now where midfielders have comeback from injury, he hasn't changed done anything to stop that. I do not understand why he persists with something so obviously flawed...

If he stays (and based on that interview it's starting to sound like he feels he's been given the green light) I want it to work out, but my persistent concerns about his approach this year, his weird substitutions and generally slow in-game responses are still there.

Maybe the interview was quite controlled, I don't know, but I thought he seemed more confident in contrast to the terseness of his press conferences of late and I am reminded of just what a tumultuous two seasons it has been.

Oh, sod it. Sack him.

 

[Rapsel]

Dutch TV says they won't sack him because they don't want to buy off his contract with no good successors available.

 

[Leftback99]

Dutch TV says they won't sack him because they don't want to buy off his contract with no good successors available.

All the money he has cost us means we can't afford to sack him.

 

[despairingfool]

Feels like things are beginning to change behind the scenes.

 

[BorisManUtd]

How many really good performances have we had under ETH since he's been here ?

22/23 season:

Spurs 2-0 win at home
Chelsea 1-1 draw away
Chelsea 4-1 win at home
Newcastle EFL Cup final
Barca both legs in Europa league

Also we had few convincing wins around New Year against Forest and Bournemouth at home, though we're supposed to be winning those. Sevilla at OT was good in first half or first 60 minutes, don't remember anymore. Few good wins at home like vs Liverpool, Arsenal and City but those were more like in Mourinho and Ole Era were we gave up possession and killed them in transitions etc.

23/24 season:
Spurs 2-0 loss first half
Arsenal 3-1 loss could've gone different if Garnacho's goal stood
Chelsea 2-1 win at home
Villa 3-2 win at home

Won't count Palace win in league cup as they played second string. Beat us few days later when playing strong team. So basically few good games whole season says it all. People mentionining Leicester at home but we could've conceded on 3 occasions until 20th minute, after that we indeed were good.

Our 2-0 win vs Spurs in October 2022 is still my favourite game under ten Hag as we actually controlled it from first minute to last. Obviously it was partly due to Conte's defensive tactics away from home to big teams but still was a promising game. Haven't seen that since really.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Clearly the decision making will be left to the new guys, and we will know once they make a decision.

Till then we just have to endure more of this Pep Guardiola is my idol and his incompetence.

 

[Amir]

Apparently West Ham, who are five points behind us currently, have had talks to replace their manager. If we're fine with where we are then that will really say a lot.

We're clearly not fine with where we are.

We've also got a lot of issues to deal with beside the manager, and just replacing him won't bring us to where we want to be.

Which doesn't mean he'll stay or should stay. Just that we're doing a lot to get things right in other departments that should also reflect to what we end up seeing on the pitch.

 

[giggs-beckham]

The only thing that could change my mind on eth being given next season is if he can show us in the fa cup final of being able to tactically compete with pep and that doesn't mean just sitting back deep the whole game in the hope of nicking a goal with some individualmoment of brilliance like we did in the last game against them.

If he can genuinely go toe to toe with pep in the same way liverpool have and even villa then I would be open to him staying.

One game? Is enough to give him a whole other season.

 

[Heinzesight]

Not watched the Neville interview yet but I heard he mentioned the shots conceded issue.

However, did he mention the cut backs (on the field by the way )?

 

[Canucantona20]

Apparently West Ham, who are five points behind us currently, have had talks to replace their manager. If we're fine with where we are then that will really say a lot.

How long has Moyes been at west ham?

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Neville is famously pro-managers, so no wonder he failed to address his obvious lies while making excuses, which made the interview all cosy. Nevermind the sackable 7-0 loss, he also started this season with his preferred back four and midfield and the issues we have seen all season was evident also then. Injuries have been a convenient excuse to hide from him being completely unable to adapt to the squad available to him. Everyone bar Dalot has regressed badly under him, even our exciting youngsters look absolutely shot.

Moyes might win the worst manager accolade based on a bigger fall from grace but this season is by far the worst in isolation.

 

[lex talionis]

INEOS are going to fix that by signing all the players going forward.

ten Hag couldn't get much change out of the ones he's managed before or admired at Ajax. It'll be much better working with strangers.

I hope so. I really do believe ETH is a good manager, despite his in-game tactics -- let's be fair, injuries have savaged the squad and he's got little to work with when looking at the bench -- but inside that bald head is a manager who screwed up by his zealousness in going after De Jong, who made it clear he did not want to leave Barcelona, going after Antony, who just isn't at the required level, Mount, whose best position is occupied by our best player. And we needed a proven striker, not a punt on a promising talent. And given the limitations on our budget we really didn't need a keeper whose strength we can't possibly capitalize on any time soon.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

22/23 season:

Spurs 2-0 win at home
Chelsea 1-1 draw away
Chelsea 4-1 win at home
Newcastle EFL Cup final
Barca both legs in Europa league

Also we had few convincing wins around New Year against Forest and Bournemouth at home, though we're supposed to be winning those. Sevilla at OT was good in first half or first 60 minutes, don't remember anymore. Few good wins at home like vs Liverpool, Arsenal and City but those were more like in Mourinho and Ole Era were we gave up possession and killed them in transitions etc.

23/24 season:
Spurs 2-0 loss first half
Arsenal 3-1 loss could've gone different if Garnacho's goal stood
Chelsea 2-1 win at home
Villa 3-2 win at home

Won't count Palace win in league cup as they played second string. Beat us few days later when playing strong team. So basically few good games whole season says it all. People mentionining Leicester at home but we could've conceded on 3 occasions until 20th minute, after that we indeed were good.

Our 2-0 win vs Spurs in October 2022 is still my favourite game under ten Hag as we actually controlled it from first minute to last. Obviously it was partly due to Conte's defensive tactics away from home to big teams but still was a promising game. Haven't seen that since really.

You're being really generous counting Arsenal and Chelsea as "really good performances". We hardly had a sniff for much of that Arsenal game and Chelsea was a joke of a basketball game between two inocompetently open sides, I think they could have had 5 or 6 that day.

 

[Teja]

I hope so. I really do believe ETH is a good manager, despite his in-game tactics -- let's be fair, injuries have savaged the squad and he's got little to work with when looking at the bench -- but inside that bald head is a manager who screwed up by his zealousness in going after De Jong, who made it clear he did not want to leave Barcelona, going after Antony, who just isn't at the required level, Mount, whose best position is occupied by our best player. And we needed a proven striker, not a punt on a promising talent. And given the limitations on our budget we really didn't need a keeper whose strength we can't possibly capitalize on any time soon.

It's a very seductive line of thinking when a game is not on. And then we play football and I can't wait for us to sack him. I think over the course of the summer (especially if we make some interesting signings), more and more people will echo this because there's no football to prove you wrong. We'll start the season, predictably fail and sack him mid season and write off yet another year.

 

[Sarni]

How long has Moyes been at west ham?

5 years, during which he has taken them from lower quarter of the table to consistently finishing in top 10 (aside from one season) and has seen them become one of the most consistent English teams in Europe in recent years.

He also did not need 3-4 years before any notable improvement.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I still dont think enough is being made of the fact he couldn't play the Ajax way because of the players. What fkn players? He' changed them all except Dalot, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw. So he got hired for his Ajax style then spent 400 million plus trying out a 'transition' style with 5 attackers and the rest low blocking because he needs to build around Dalot, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw? Or lets be honest. Rashford. He was told to build around Rashford. And if that's the case why buy all his old players? He said he cant ask players to play differently than what fits them best but his Ajax players played their best football in his Ajax team, then he buys them for more money than they are worth, then puts them in a different system. Why?
This is fundamentally why Man Utd are fkd. We fit styles and managers around players including youth players and not the other way around.

 

[Nicoseth]

5 years, during which he has taken them from lower quarter of the table to consistently finishing in top 10 (aside from one season) and has seen them become one of the most consistent English teams in Europe in recent years.

He also did not need 3-4 years before any notable improvement.

So we weren't better last year than the year before?

 

[Longshanks]

22/23 season:

Spurs 2-0 win at home
Chelsea 1-1 draw away
Chelsea 4-1 win at home
Newcastle EFL Cup final
Barca both legs in Europa league

Also we had few convincing wins around New Year against Forest and Bournemouth at home, though we're supposed to be winning those. Sevilla at OT was good in first half or first 60 minutes, don't remember anymore. Few good wins at home like vs Liverpool, Arsenal and City but those were more like in Mourinho and Ole Era were we gave up possession and killed them in transitions etc.

23/24 season:
Spurs 2-0 loss first half
Arsenal 3-1 loss could've gone different if Garnacho's goal stood
Chelsea 2-1 win at home
Villa 3-2 win at home

Won't count Palace win in league cup as they played second string. Beat us few days later when playing strong team. So basically few good games whole season says it all. People mentionining Leicester at home but we could've conceded on 3 occasions until 20th minute, after that we indeed were good.

Our 2-0 win vs Spurs in October 2022 is still my favourite game under ten Hag as we actually controlled it from first minute to last. Obviously it was partly due to Conte's defensive tactics away from home to big teams but still was a promising game. Haven't seen that since really.

You lost me at the thought that we played well by beating Newcastle in the league cup final. We were poor in that game, it's just Newcastle were even worse.

 

[The Mitcher]

How would that work? Sir Jim has no position at the club. And the lame duck executives are not going to preempt the new appointees with such a decision.

Sir Jim is co-owner with the glazers...

 

[Nas-JR]

Completely agree with your analysis on the tactics.

The dying on the hill though is the biggest worry. He has decided this years tactics "suit" the squad he has. And the reason he hasn't done short term changes to a defensive shape is because when people come back to fitness, he believes the current style will suit the squad.

I just cant see it at all. All of our attackers are better suited to counter attacks with space in behind to attack. None of our midfielders have the legs to play the solo 6 role. Our back 4 (especially CBs) are really slow and unsuited to a high line. We are almost perfectly suited to a deep block counter style, and completely unsuited for high press or intricate build up. Boggles the mind he cant see it.

I think ETH's latest interview with Gnev addresses your points. Gary asks him if has considered switching back to a more pragmatic approach.

He says he has but he was first of brought in to instill a proactive approach and second he believes the full squad is more suitable to this proactive approach. He says if you switch to pragmatic approach during injuries and you don't get the results everyone loses confidence (probably means in him as much as anything), which is true, just ask mourinho! He also says that when players do come back, he'll have to switch back and it would be problematic. The thing is we've not really had these players come back properly at all the whole year!

It's along the lines of what I said, he's made his bed and he'll have to sleep in it. For what it's worth, I thînk a good chunk of the squad could easily fall under the 'proactive' side. Shaw, martinez, onana, dalot, mainoo, garnacho, mount, malacia and hojlund all fall in this category. Problem is 4 of these have been injured throughout. Another 3 are young players and onana is... Onana haha. Antony fits the bill too but is just not very good.

The rest of the squad is in line with what you said. Bruno can adapt. Maybe a couple more but so many others just don't. Ideally, our turnover of the squad would have been much faster but it's just not happened.

 

[The Mitcher]

This man isn't going anywhere. He's just done an interview with Gary Neville on skysports. The club is clearly trying to change the perception of fans and the media of him. For better or worse, we're stuck with him.

Why would Neville interviewing him have any bearing on his future?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I hope so. I really do believe ETH is a good manager, despite his in-game tactics -- let's be fair, injuries have savaged the squad and he's got little to work with when looking at the bench -- but inside that bald head is a manager who screwed up by his zealousness in going after De Jong, who made it clear he did not want to leave Barcelona, going after Antony, who just isn't at the required level, Mount, whose best position is occupied by our best player. And we needed a proven striker, not a punt on a promising talent. And given the limitations on our budget we really didn't need a keeper whose strength we can't possibly capitalize on any time soon.

I was kind of taking the piss with my tone.

I believe that's he's a very good Eredivisie manager. Just like Peter Bosz and Gio van Bronckhorst are.

I have little sympathy with regards to injuries due to a lack of rotation last season and poor preparation/overtraining this season. They've all had an impact in terms of injuries. We'd be 5% better with a fit Shaw at LB. The season would still have been a mess. Some people blame the injuries on everything.

You'll probably get some fans blaming INEOS for signing certain players if they struggle next season.

"We'd have been better off leaving ten Hag in control of transfers"

 

[The Mitcher]

All the money he has cost us means we can't afford to sack him.

It makes no sense. I refuse to believe we don't have ten million lying around to sack him.

It's also stupid that INEOS thinks there's no one else, when Liverpool found their replacement already (jury is out as Slot could be their ETH) and there are managers like Tuchel, Amorrim, Valverde, Enrique, Xavi, McKenna, Carrick and others that we could convince to leave clubs or sign straight away.

 

[Roane]

After a game I get so frustrated that I want him gone. But I think same for certain players.

Then I think about it and think NO give him time. And here are my reasons.

I don't think that because of the injuries. I think that's too simplistic and obvious. For me it's more than that. Although injuries and behind the scenes stuff like Greenwood hasn't helped.

My biggest issue is the early "success" and the desire to play a different style of football. Ole has this too and ultimately was his undoing. EtH is going through this now.

I simply don't think we have the players to play how we want or are expected to play. Put simply we need too many players at once to do so.

We basically have had success in being a counter attacking team. Defend deep and have runners like Marcus to hit on the break. It has bought us some success.

The problem is then we buy a DVB and a Sancho. Players who aren't good as counter attacking, as in head down and run players. They are space, one touch, give and go players. Problem is if you give to Marcus or Garnacho you don't get back. You get a player just taking the ball and running.

Ole said of Haaland that he is unselfish and a team player. Would always pass if someone is in a better position to score. We have players who will shoot rather than pass.

This desire to play a different way without key changes is what undi Ole and is undoing EtH.

As a club we simply need to act within our station. We want the glory days too quick. Which isn't surprising really. People mentioned West Ham and Moyes. You can go back to Pulis and Stoke. They bought stability and fans wanted more. In Stokes case they went in free fall after.

We need to transition a bit slower. This season should have been the first and last season the second. I think we would have maybe been a bit more positive about EtH then.

 

[The Mitcher]

I don't get HOW he's going to get to 30 goals when we barely create any chances for him to score ?

Did Garry ask him that type of question ?

He also has crap movement and his finishing is suspect.