Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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He’s useless and we won’t do anything of note whilst he is still here. Even with all the luck he has in getting undeserved results, there’s no way on earth a team of his will be Pep’s City. No way.
Sack him after a defeat this weekend and let’s hope for a decent manager for the final.
I see the usual suspects are defending him tonight and saying the players should do better, but it’s 100% ETH who dictates the way we play. It’s his fault the team lack passion and confidence. It’s his fault the team invite pressure after pressure every game by leaving areas exposed to the most simplistic football to walk right through us. He’s killing United and some of you want more of it….you’re off your tits man!
 
Raoul said:
They certainly wouldn't want United run by the Glazers and Woodward, which is what most still perceive. Once Ashworth and everyone else are in place, that could change quickly.
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This.

Glazers haven’t hired one person externally to a significant position at the club and they’ve been here almost 20 years.

INEOS have barely been here 20 weeks and they’ve already hired a CEO, a DoF and a Technical Director… still looking for a Head of Recruitment too. I imagine modern coaches will want to be part of such an operation.

The Glazer way of doing things has probably driven off some of the coaches we could have had, namely Klopp.
 
Maluco said:
There is something wrong with squad mentality too. The posture is all wrong and Hojlund was celebrating alone at the end. There are definitely some bad eggs that need to be weeded out.

We need better leadership for sure and players who can set a new tone in the dressing room.
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That’s been the case every time a manager gets sacked though. We bought in Casemiro and Varane who were supposed to be that.

I’m at the point where I think it’s just so hard to know what’s going wrong without being on the inside. Ineos have a huge job as I don’t even know where they go with the managers available.
 
Fortitude said:
If you think this isn’t the worst served up post-Fergie, you must have severe memory loss.

This is our worst season of the lot. Biggest difference is this manager, via fortuitous circumstance, is allowed to mess up again and again and again whilst others were fired out of a cannon much sooner.

Jim looked like death watching that. I should think it’s sealed his fate, if there was any doubt prior to the game.
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The Moyes season was arguably worse. Yes, he did make the CL quarters with Fergie's players, but that was obliterated by our turgid league play and 7th place finish.
 
Cassidy said:
Thats because its clearly both
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It's mental that people can't see that it's both. We've had some catastrophic collapses over the years with different managers, and yet it's always entirely the managers fault when that's only part of the problem

I remember we crashed out of champions league football with a group stage defeat to Leipzig in Ole's second season and IIRC AwB had a nightmare defensively in that game too. Just silly mistakes over and over and poor recruitment.
 
Raoul said:
They certainly wouldn't want United run by the Glazers and Woodward, which is what most still perceive. Once Ashworth and everyone else are in place, that could change quickly.
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Doubtful in my opinion, Zidane is reportedly not keen on the PL and Alonso has strong ties to Liverpool. I'm sure Ashworth can attract quality coaches, just not those two.
 
stevoc said:
Mate this shtick is tedious, give it a rest. Even without assinging blame my point is the fact it happened along with the Rashford incident are the objective events. They did happen didn't they? So in your opinion has stamped out disciplinary issues within this squad?
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It is tedious, you keep trying to slide this stuff in and then claim ignorance. The fact that they happened are objective, your statement that Sancho was both of their fault I reject. While he hasn't stamped out disciplinary issues (which is impossible, and a silly standard to hold anyone to), he has dealt with them all well.

stevoc said:
Well we all hope, but in that case we can't actually say that there will be a tangible benefit to him persisting with this system all season. Yeah we might eventually learn another system, but that will most likely be when we get a new manager in.
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And a new manager will be in the same situation, a bunch of players assembled to play a different style of football to the style they want to play. Which I'm OK with as given the new footballing structure it'll hopefully be the last time, but we'll be rubbish for a while until we can get to grips with that new system, especially as it'll almost certainly require new players who can make it work.

stevoc said:
It doesn't at all. A new system can be implemented at any time. The fact he's stuck with this one will likely mean he won't get another season to implement fully whatever the hell it is he is trying to implement. It's ok to be pragmatic and change tactics to get results and see out the season especially with the injuries we've had. He's basically wrote off this season to dogmatically stick with a system that doesn't work and/or he doesn't have the players to make work. It's silly.
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A new system can't just be implemented like that. It's madness to suggest that we could just try to play another proactive style and make it work overnight. Any new system would take a lot of time to implement. We could revert back to our old system, the mid block, that seems to be what you're suggesting with the pragmatic approach, but if we take that approach we delay our grasping of the system we're trying to learn. If you stop doing something whenever it gets tough, you'll never master it. No matter who comes in, if they want to play anything that isn't a mid block, then we're going to take a few beatings at minimum and it'll be a while before we master it. If we take the "pragmatic" approach and stop whenever it gets tough, we'll never master it.

I think there's a fair argument to be had as to whether Ten Hag's system is one that can carry us to consistent success at it's best, I myself am wavering due to the lack of control it offers sometimes, but if we go with no and aim for a different system with different managers then we'll still have to have the patience to push through the inevitable problems we'll have adopting that system.
 
Posh Red said:
Pretty sure the exact quote was ‘in the last ten years’ but not sure.
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Why make reference to the last 10 years? If we were successful he won't be here.
That is a nothing thing to say really.
 
Raoul said:
The Moyes season was arguably worse. Yes, he did make the CL quarters with Fergie's players, but that was obliterated by our turgid league play and 7th place finish.
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Compared to this, Moyes‘ work was cut short at the earliest opportunity and we never saw whether he could get the team to rally and at least end up in the CL positions. It could also be argued that the team he inherited was spent and was supposed to be renewed that summer - only superhuman managers could have continued to have them perform so far above the sum of their parts, and we know Moyes definitely isn’t befitting of that.

At Everton, Moyes also showed more capacity to change so he would have at least tried a few different things given the same duration and margin for failure ten Hag has been afforded. We’ve never looked this amateurish or been battered by so many truly rubbish teams before now.
 
Fortitude said:
If you think this isn’t the worst served up post-Fergie, you must have severe memory loss.

This is our worst season of the lot. Biggest difference is this manager, via fortuitous circumstance, is allowed to mess up again and again and again whilst others were fired out of a cannon much sooner.

Jim looked like death watching that. I should think it’s sealed his fate, if there was any doubt prior to the game.
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Tbf Jim had just run 26 miles, I know how he feels!
 
Just give it to De Zerbi on a one year deal. If he does well he can stay, if he's dreadful get rid and Ashworth can pick the next one.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Closing the door is trying to gain more control of the game. Antony is better at retaining possession usually compared to Garnacho and Eriksen has never been described as bad on the ball or unable to control a game.
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We could have put more men behind the ball or played a bit deeper, we clearly weren't going to control the game with how we were playing as, as I said, every time they went forward there was space to exploit. After probably around 100 games under Ten Hag, we weren't going to suddenly control the game as you describe as we've rarely ever managed it before. Shut up shop, deprive them of chances and take away their belief.

Eriksen is OK on the ball but he can be exploited, and stretching our team out gives them more opportunity to catch us on the break and exploit him.
 
Maluco said:
There is something wrong with squad mentality too. The posture is all wrong and Hojlund was celebrating alone at the end. There are definitely some bad eggs that need to be weeded out.

We need better leadership for sure and players who can set a new tone in the dressing room.
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I was relieved to see they had enough self-awareness to just hover around the halfway line rather than run en-masse to Hojlund as if they'd won the Champions League. He was understandably delighted though.
 
Fortitude said:
Compared to this, Moyes‘ work was cut short at the earliest opportunity and we never saw whether he could get the team to rally and at least end up in the CL positions. It could also be argued that the team he inherited was spent and was supposed to be renewed that summer - only superhuman managers could have continued to have them perform so far above the sum of their parts, and we know Moyes definitely isn’t befitting of that.

At Everton, Moyes also showed more capacity to change so he would have at least tried a few different things given the same duration and margin for failure ten Hag has been afforded. We’ve never looked this amateurish or been battered by so many truly rubbish teams before now.
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Moyes was sacked when it was mathematically impossible to reach the champions league.
 
SouthMancRed said:
I was relieved to see they had enough self-awareness to just hover around the halfway line rather than run en-masse to Hojlund as if they'd won the Champions League. He was understandably delighted though.
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An arm around him from the captain wouldn’t have been a bad thing. Just t say well done that he had kept his nerve.
 
Ish said:
Damn. Hopefully we can generate some good money with sales (don’t bet on it) to perform that surgery on the squad.
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It's like that Groundhog day film.

Every season we hope for a big exodus and a lot of quality coming in.

Every season next to no-one leaves, certainly not for any sort of fee and 2-3 players come in, often looking reasonable for a short while before dropping off a cliff. Mount didn't even get to show reasonable.

Again all the players can play the "we need a new manager / system" card. Which buys them a bit more time.
 
His performance over the past 12 months is consistently poor in all elements of decision making. During games tactically; very naive. Signing of players; ill judged. Traning methods; injury enhancing. All in all there’s nothing there which makes me want to risk another season of this utter dross based on the last 12 months of his management. It’s arguably the worst football team we’ve been post Fergie and that is really saying something.
 
crossy1686 said:
He plays them every game, there’s more chance of them both starting every game next season if he stays
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:lol: exactly! These players that his supporters are blaming, are his first choice picks. his whole system relies on them. And funnily enough, the two he wanted rid of have saved his bacon to an extent this season in Maguire and McTominay. You couldn't script it.
 
Fortitude said:
Compared to this, Moyes‘ work was cut short at the earliest opportunity and we never saw whether he could get the team to rally and at least end up in the CL positions. It could also be argued that the team he inherited was spent and was supposed to be renewed that summer - only superhuman managers could have continued to have them perform so far above the sum of their parts, and we know Moyes definitely isn’t befitting of that.

At Everton, Moyes also showed more capacity to change so he would have at least tried a few different things given the same duration and margin for failure ten Hag has been afforded. We’ve never looked this amateurish or been battered by so many truly rubbish teams before now.
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Moyes took a squad that had cruised the league title to 7th. Below his old team.

This forum should auto complete that on every single post that has people trying to cut Moyes slack.
 
Sarni said:
We are a week away from that now. 16 points behind Villa with only 18 points to play for.
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SJR really has fecked himself by saying that we need to get champions league football for FFP. He should have sacked ETH the moment he got in.
 
The Hilton said:
It is tedious, you keep trying to slide this stuff in and then claim ignorance. The fact that they happened are objective, your statement that Sancho was both of their fault I reject. While he hasn't stamped out disciplinary issues (which is impossible, and a silly standard to hold anyone to), he has dealt with them all well.
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No it's tedious because you are trying to deflect and undermine people's points by constantly making accusations.

Because I said in brackets, that it could have been handled better by both? A bit of a stretch mate, .


The Hilton said:
And a new manager will be in the same situation, a bunch of players assembled to play a different style of football to the style they want to play. Which I'm OK with as given the new footballing structure it'll hopefully be the last time, but we'll be rubbish for a while until we can get to grips with that new system, especially as it'll almost certainly require new players who can make it work.
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So the same situation most teams find themselves in when they hire a new manager. And it should be pointed out that the majority of this squad has now been assembled by Ten Hag. Only around 10 players remain from when Ole got sacked.


The Hilton said:
A new system can't just be implemented like that. It's madness to suggest that we could just try to play another proactive style and make it work overnight. Any new system would take a lot of time to implement. We could revert back to our old system, the mid block, that seems to be what you're suggesting with the pragmatic approach, but if we take that approach we delay our grasping of the system we're trying to learn. If you stop doing something whenever it gets tough, you'll never master it. No matter who comes in, if they want to play anything that isn't a mid block, then we're going to take a few beatings at minimum and it'll be a while before we master it. If we take the "pragmatic" approach and stop whenever it gets tough, we'll never master it.

I think there's a fair argument to be had as to whether Ten Hag's system is one that can carry us to consistent success at it's best, I myself am wavering due to the lack of control it offers sometimes, but if we go with no and aim for a different system with different managers then we'll still have to have the patience to push through the inevitable problems we'll have adopting that system.
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Of course it can be, managers do it all the time.

We wouldn't be delaying anything though as we aren't currently on the path to learning anything, never mind mastering anything, we've been at whatever it is we're doing this season for 9 months and we don't seem to be even grasping the basics of it. What we're doing this season isn't (I hope) what Ten Hag wants to actually play like and I very much doubt the next manager will be continuing with it. So it's been a waste of time and a season.
 
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Notice the big swing in voting. Are these new voters or are the same indecisive lot back again from the original poll? I laughed this morning when there was a 1% shift towards keeping him... posters must wake up in the morning and decide they actually think he's the man for the job again.
 
Get him off the club now. Interim manager bump before the final.

Otherwise another shitshow is served and in case we win it another doubt he could do it for another season. Yes, I am sure there are people who would start doubting him if we fluke it in the final somehow.
 
Raoul said:
The Moyes season was arguably worse. Yes, he did make the CL quarters with Fergie's players, but that was obliterated by our turgid league play and 7th place finish.
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Not sure about everything else, but points-wise we're not matching Moyes's 64 points in the league, let alone the GD.

I am somewhat doubtful we'll even beat the 58 by Rangnick.
 
The Hilton said:
A new system can't just be implemented like that.
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Come on now...

This is the equivalent of the kid picking up his football and taking it home because he's losing. Just because ETH hasn't established anything in 2 years, let's not pretend others can't when there's many examples of good managers doing just that. Even just this season in the PL alone.
 
So Eriks now reached Jose levels of shitting on the clubs history in order to big himself up? Fantastic. The only thing he had left going for himself was that he was at the very least, a likeable guy.
 
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