Di Matteo won a CL trophy. Hes not even third tier.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Di Matteo won a CL trophy. Hes not even third tier.
You've literally not paid attention to this thread to make such a claim.
Such an argumentative reply.
Do you guys never get tired of swinging from the managers bollocks?
We're not even the most affected team in the league and you'd think we're lucky to not be fighting relegation the way some of you go on about the injuries. Sure, it's affected us to a degree but we still have a squad of players that are capable.
I couldn't care less for Ten Hag. It's actually funny. The two teams that are not on this list are in the Top 3, Arsenal and City. What that statistic also doesn't tell you is which of the players, or how crucial they are for the way of play of certain team. Liverpool have 6 forwards, they can afford to lose 3. United has 1, Hojlund. Do you realize that if we lose 3 players upfront, our attack will be Forson, Diallo, and probably another kid from the academy?
For example, take Odegard out of Arsenal, and they are nose-diving. Just as it happened with Van Dijk when Pickford injured him. Statistics without context are just numbers.
Casemiro missed a lot of games during the first half of the season too. Martinez and Casemiro were the most important players last season and this season they did miss a lot. There really are no good replacements for those two players.
No. He is a better manager. Ole highly benefitted from Fernandes, Pogba, Martial and Rashford playing at a high level and saving his backside. The thing about ETH is that he has simply demonstrated his limitations and those limitations are in my opinion dealbreakers if the goal is to reach the highest level of Football. He is our own Brendan Rodgers.
ETH his CL semi final wasnt a fluke. Di Matteo his win was. ETH is a better manager than Ole and has proven a lot more. Just because you want ETH out you are coming up with such ridiculous statements. Nobody in Europe has ever rated Ole as a manager while ETH was one of the 'hottest' managers in Europe before he went to Manchester United. I dont think ETH is amongst the Peps and Klopps of this world but he is a lot better than Ole.
I think I'll reserve judgement to see how he does in another non-Dutch league after he's sacked. Doesnt seem like he'll be out of a job too long and will have offers from Germany and probably elsewhere so it'll be interesting.
Right now he could just as easily be De Boer plus a handful of CL performances.
Sacking EtH is one thing. Who replaces him is another. Let's see what Ineos are really made of. Besides chemicals.
Anyway, he's the second best post-Fergie manager, after Jose. A trophy in his first attempt, CL qualification, numerous players improved and another cup final. Second season write-off due to a poor summer window and a mammoth injury pile-up.
Still think he should get a third season with the Ineos administration, rather than Murtough and the like. Especially as the mooted candidates for his replacement are underwhelming, if not simply worse managers.
Anyway, he's the second best post-Fergie manager, after Jose. A trophy in his first attempt, CL qualification, numerous players improved and another cup final. Second season write-off due to a poor summer window and a mammoth injury pile-up.
Still think he should get a third season with the Ineos administration, rather than Murtough and the like. Especially as the mooted candidates for his replacement are underwhelming, if not simply worse managers.
I don’t know if any of the others on the Erik out train feel the same,however for me I can see issues with the structure, playing squad and the manager. Wish we could clean house on all three this summer but that's not realistic in our situation.
No not at all. As @Vidooq claims. You dont know much about football if you really think that injuries have no effect or just a small effect. Even more if those injuries are to players that are very important to how you want to play and no replacement of the same quality and style is available. Missing Shaw, Martinez and Casemiro is huge. Last season even Klopp had major issues because of the injuries for Liverpool. Arsenal fans would claim their title run fell apart partly because off Saliba his injury.
ETH is not a perfect manager but there are reasons for the way this season is going. Some think the manager should be sacked because of that and i understand why. I just dont think it is fair at all to act like the injuries are no reason at all. Personally im more forgiving to the lack of good results and the playstyle because of those injuries. It is fine if you are not but you still got to be fair about it.
Realistically, we're going to need a fairly drastic overhaul of the squad to get back to the top. People are kidding themselves if they think we're managing any sort of consistent time in the top four, let alone mounting a title challenge, while we're still reliant on this current crop of players.
It's not going to happen in a summer, but I think three or four is pretty realistic if we're smart about our transfers. I can't remember the exact figures now but that's basically what Liverpool did with Klopp. In his third full season (which was the CL win and second place), the vast majority of the regular playing squad were "his" players (i.e. brought in after he became manager).
Unfortunately, INEOS haven't got the structure in place yet, and even when they do, there's a chance it has some teething problems, so we could be looking at five or more. There's also the strong possibility that some signings don't work out, so hopefully we're not going to continue paying daft transfer fees and wages making them unsellable.
The way he's been harping on about that, one would think Ten Hag had surpassed the point tally by 10+ points or something.By a point
Since the League Cup win the performances have been terrible. This includes February-May of the first season. He was already showing an inability to coach a positive style of play.
I’d say his first season was neutral.
Between February 2023 and March 2024 I can count the amount of good 90 min performances on one hand. It’s terrible standards.
The bolded is very strange to me. With previous managers I was able to understand why some people clung on to them whether I found their reasoning silly or not. With the likes of Mourinho and LVG, they had long CVs and rich history of winning at the highest level to back them up, so folks believing they were able to offer more beyond their then under performances, I could see the logic. With Ole there was an element of sentimentality. A huge United hero whom folks found hard to just dismiss and were hoping he'd turn things around. Even with Moyes, there was a sense that some people trying to honor SAF's wish of being patient with the next manager whom he personally picked.
With Ten Hag, I don't quite get this need to stick for the guy given there is nothing to hold on to. The biggest draw about him coming to United and what got most people exited was the idea of him transforming this United team into a modern top team, where we see us have this modern approach. The allure of Ajax playing style was the draw, he was supposed to bring it here yet he's failed to do that and has verbalized that he isn't interested in doing so anymore. He's not winning us games and has failed at implementing the type of football he was mainly brought here for. Then what's the point of sticking with the guy?
We certainly need some signings but ot doesn't require a perfect squad to finish fourth. No one was touting spurs for top 4 this season late last season
Delusional
His players played midweek fixtures every week for almost 6 months consecutively after some meaningless international tournament the players don't really care about took place. According to reports the players are human.
I think the defeat of Fulham has put any chance of top 4/5, we are like Liverpool last season probably if everyone fit, probably better than the two teams above us but we’ve dropped way too many points and running out of games, United still have Arsenal, Chelsea(A), Liverpool and Brighton (A) at best we’ll get 18/19 points from the last 30 and that’s 67/68 which just won’t be enough we would need 24/25 points to be in the mix and I just can’t see that happening who ever takes over as coach!
So you’re saying that last season 4 months of no progress on a squad style of play, zero control on games and inconsistent performances are excused due to elite athletes being tired?
By the way, it’s only gotten worse this season.
Yea, don’t really care about the in/out arguments since no one’s opinion will likely change.
Do you like the way we play football?
Do you think there have been any progression in how we play?
Do you think 21 months are enough to show what Manager can do?
Do you think we have spent enough?
Do you think we have spent wisely?
Do you another Manager would do a better job?
Do you like the way we play football?
Do you think there have been any progression in how we play?
Do you think 21 months are enough to show what Manager can do?
Do you think we have spent enough?
Do you think we have spent wisely?
Do you another Manager would do a better job?
Good lord and sweet suffering Jesus do you actually read what you type??!! Isolated season...THAT'S THE ONE AND ONLY FULL SEASON HE'S HAD ON THE JOB. No s*** it's an "isolated season".
I've also noticed you've refused to acknowledge the fact that ETH surpassed the highest point total in both those top 4 finishes. Actually nobody has acknowledged that fact, but I'm in a cult
Did you answer my question ?
If not, you have no business quoting me. Let me talk with those who are willing to answer questions.
That one is brilliant too. It was 1 point, but also Ole had 3 games in 4 days towards the end of 2020-21 meaning he had to basically concede one game, and was resting all key players for the last few weeks.The way he's been harping on about that, one would think Ten Hag had surpassed the point tally by 10+ points or something.
Hence why I said "consistently".
In one off seasons we can, but as we've seen this season, all it takes is a few injuries to key players and we're back to Scott McTominay.
Are you implying we're the only team that's been impacted by the absurd fixture congestion of the last few years?
Last seasons final 14 PL Games (all League games after the League Cup Final):
Games | W | W % | D | D % | L | L % | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Pts PG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
14 | 8 | 57.14% | 2 | 14.29% | 4 | 28.57% | 17 | 15 | 2 | 26 | 1.86 |
This season:
Games | W | W % | D | D % | L | L % | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Pts PG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
28 | 15 | 53.57% | 2 | 7.14% | 11 | 39.29% | 39 | 39 | 0 | 47 | 1.68 |
We're playing at our level. This has been our level for over a year in the league. We're just crap and that's partly due to injuries i'm sure we'd have a few more points and a few less goals conceded but it doesn't immediately fix our horrific goal scoring. We're just a badly coached team with a selection of poor players, mixed in with a sprinkling of unreliable injured plagued players. Personally I don't think we are at Tottenhams level at all, both Tottenham and Villa have played far better football than we have this season. Villa have played brilliant football since Christmas 2022.
No because they lost Harry Kane and people expected Spurs to fall apart. Fact is that Spurs their best forward (Son) is better than our best forward (whoever that is between Rashford/Garnacho/Hojlund). Maddison is a quality player and really improved Spurs. The goalkeeper that Spurs signed also turned out to be really good and van de Ven seems a potential amazing defender.
Turns out that the Spurs team is a lot better than people expected. People just didnt know last year. I dont think that the Manchester United squad is clearly better than the Spurs squad for example.
Looking at the Spurs starting eleven from their win against Villa. Which player would you take out and replace with a Manchester United player? Prime Casemiro, prime Varane, Martinez, Shaw and in form Rashford would get in but we dont even have those players right now. Dalot has a very good season but would he get in over Udogie or Porro?
Spurs actually had Bentancur coming off the bench. Bentancur is a better player than McT.
The way he's been harping on about that, one would think Ten Hag had surpassed the point tally by 10+ points or something.
Indeed, no one's denying he did well last season. But trying to make out he was turning water into wine by leading the club with the 4th biggest wage bill in England to a 3rd place finish is a bit much.
He plays shit football. He's a shit fit for United. He should get sacked asap and will never be successful for United. And you can quote me on that.
I agree on his inability to get this team playing as a coherent attacking unit but how many fans at the beginning of the season would have had Villa and Spurs emphatically playing better football than United and both ahead in the PL. On day one of the PL with Harry Kane leaving Spurs most fans would have discarded them as top 4/5. United looked like with the addition of Mount and Hojlund, we had more goals not less, ETH must go and that’s that. We’ve only finished outside the top 5 on 4 occasions in the PL, once 7th and three times 6th place and 23 times out of 29 we’ve finished in the top 3, yes united are currently much derided however the new coach must be sat down and explained second and third at United are failure, if we think your are going to finish outside the top 4/5 after 10 games you will be sacked, new standards must be enforced and adhered to!
Agreed, new standards have to be set and adhered too. No excuses.
We are currently on course for 6th position, what's worse is, on the basis of our performances we are even not even worthy of 6th position this season. Performances wise, we are actually 7 to 10 points better than what we deserve.
Any other team than Everton on Saturday, that was either a draw or a loss for us. Similarly Villa away, Wolves home, Brentford home (just on top of my head). All these matches where on the basis of our performances we should not have won. Eventually these results catch up in a league campaign.
The most concerning thing is, even at home against poor sides we are not able to impose our football and end up defending deep and countering them. What happened to wave after waves of attacks and suffocating the lower table away teams in their own half. We are just very open and concede way too many chances.
It would be somewhat acceptable if attacking wise we were free goal scoring side, so you can probably say we will concede 2 but score 4 anyway. But on the other side, we are actually shit in front of goal, we need 4 to 5 chances to score and we hardly create any chances, therefore this is a recipe for disaster and against any half decent side this will come unstuck similar to Fulham.
Hopefully we get another manager and reiterate them the standards at the time of appointment that instill possession based, free flowing attacking football and the renowned recruitment specialists and CEOs and what not we are hiring are hopefully able to pick up value signings, free agents, last year contract and helps us to overhaul the side within FPP limit, which is badly needed.
Any team that is hoping to play possession based attacking football the likes of Varane, Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford should not be part of that team. Plus also try to sell Antony and Sancho, make a decision on Greenwood..
Next season what we should hope to achieve is home games we should dominate and play attacking positive football, whereas against top sides away, we should atleast compete overall and not fold so meekly like we do now.
Any other team than Everton on Saturday, that was either a draw or a loss for us. Similarly Villa away, Wolves home, Brentford home (just on top of my head). All these matches where on the basis of our performances we should not have won. Eventually these results catch up in a league campaign.
The most concerning thing is, even at home against poor sides we are not able to impose our football and end up defending deep and countering them. What happened to wave after waves of attacks and suffocating the lower table away teams in their own half. We are just very open and concede way too many chances.
It would be somewhat acceptable if attacking wise we were free goal scoring side, so you can probably say we will concede 2 but score 4 anyway. But on the other side, we are actually shit in front of goal, we need 4 to 5 chances to score and we hardly create any chances, therefore this is a recipe for disaster and against any half decent side this will come unstuck similar to Fulham.
Hopefully we get another manager and reiterate them the standards at the time of appointment that instill possession based, free flowing attacking football and the renowned recruitment specialists and CEOs and what not we are hiring are hopefully able to pick up value signings, free agents, last year contract and helps us to overhaul the side within FPP limit, which is badly needed.
Any team that is hoping to play possession based attacking football the likes of Varane, Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford should not be part of that team. Plus also try to sell Antony and Sancho, make a decision on Greenwood..
Next season what we should hope to achieve is home games we should dominate and play attacking positive football, whereas against top sides away, we should atleast compete overall and not fold so meekly like we do now.
Ole barely had Pogba after the 18/19 season. He didn't have Martial after the 19/20 one. His best season was when he got the best out of Bruno, and Rashford had a middling one. ETH got the best of Rashford anyone has last season and scraped marginally better results than Ole with an abysmal GD.
I just don't see why some fans are so wedded to this guy. He's going to be gone at seasons end anyway IMO, I think Neville all but confirmed it with what he said.
The point is that the only reason we are likening Ole and ETH is due to these players. Things went bad when Ole lost them and when Bruno's form went back to something a bit more normal. Both of them aren't good enough but ETH is better.
I wouldn't exactly call the second season a write off even though I obviously don't think he should be sacked.
Why what horrible thing did they do to me?
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We're the only team I can recall ever having to play so many mid week fixtures consecutively. We played only 4 less games than Liverpool did when they were trying to win the quad, but with a winter World Cup in the middle.
When's the last time a team had to play 3 matches a week for 6 months straight? If you honestly think the match load after the WC was just another run of the mill thing that "elite athletes" just deal with, you are beyond hope. Is that actually what you think? Three football matches a week at the highest for almost 6 months straight right after a World Cup. Let that resonate in your head for a second before you go play FIFA.
ETH has spent more than enough money to be reliant on his own players without saying he had to deal with what Ole left behind. Maybe Ole would have gotten top 4 if he had Casemiro or Martinez? I agree he's probably a better coach but I base that on what he did for Ajax rather than anything he's done here, which has on the whole been totally average.
Tbh I can see us hiring Potter in the summer and firing him by February.
Redcafe will be lots of fun in this scenario!
This season has been bad, but this thread is trainwreck on another level.
Redcafe will be lots of fun in this scenario!
This season has been bad, but this thread is trainwreck on another level.
I'll be the first to say I thought the players couldn't be arsed because they took liberties with Ole and that's why he wasn't right for the job as opposed to anything football related, where he had good ideas and knew how to play to his players' strengths. Now we're seeing the same thing after it looked like we turned a corner last season before the fixture congestion finally took its tole. The problem we have now is they wouldn't put a shift in for Mourinho because he was mean to them, they wouldn't put a shift in for Ole because he was too nice, and now we're probably going on a third manager being sacked for the same reason eventually. Most of the same players will be here for number 4.
Yeah we've been poor for a while now. This is what people keep ignoring.
Last 42 games in the league, our GD is a +2. We're a plainly average side.
The funny part is that this ignore the underlying metrics that state we've been very lucky this season. Pretty sure we're still 13th in xPTs.
What players are you refering to here?
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