Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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There is no way Pep gets this decimated United team into the Top 4 this year, no way. He would kill McTominay as soon as this guy misses a simple pass. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Arteta finished 8th twice before he completely changed the team. Klopp did not qualify for the Top 4 with his injury-stricken team last season. Ten Hag is being compared to them in his second season, coupled with injuries after all of these coaches had 4 and 9 years building their teams.

Whoever thinks that having this many injuries has not affected this team and its performances, knows nothing about football, I'm sorry.
 
Ghostrider318 said:
I wont mind the losses , the table position if his signings showed a net positive impact and we had a way , a style of play. The lack of goals couldve been chalked up to not having an established striker or dip in form of the attackers.

Instead we have an incoherent mess. Almost all his signings have been poor with an 85m Antony leading the way. We have no style of play, no pattern. Our players cant cross the ball, cant string passes to save their lives, cant hold possession. We give teams chance after chance to score against us and rely on pure dumb luck to either draw or win. Not to mention, our games are a chore to watch.

The City vs Liverpool game yesterday was depressing to watch because of how good a game it was and how United shows almost none of the abilities on display in that game ( except for Diaz's misses )
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In the context of what was paid, which signings have been poor other than Antony? If you want to use the City Liverpool game as an example, their players work their rear ends off to execute the tactics. If you want to say it’s up to ETH to get that out of his players, fair or not, I’ll agree 100% but it’s laughable to think he just sends them out there without a plan. Accommodating your tactics because players won’t run is a slippery slope. He can do a better job adjusting but at what point are you no longer adjusting and instead just making it acceptable to not run enough on the pitch?
 
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Vidooq said:
There is no way Pep gets this decimated United team into the Top 4 this year, no way. He would kill McTominay as soon as this guy misses a simple pass. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Arteta finished 8th twice before he completely changed the team. Klopp did not qualify for the Top 4 with his injury-stricken team last season. Ten Hag is being compared to them in his second season, coupled with injuries after all of these coaches had 4 and 9 years building their teams.

Whoever thinks that having this many injuries has not affected this team and its performances, knows nothing about football, I'm sorry.
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Another straw man. Literally nobody is making that claim.
 
flameinthesun said:
He took over a team that finished 6th amidst one of the worst united seasons in decades, a team bearing in mind that could not win a final or a meaningful semi final, that was the team he inherited (and even in that you can argue he had a more successful first season than any of Ole's). General consensus was that they were not favourites for top 4 for a reason, even after buying Casemiro who we all knew was a panic buy after not getting De Jong and then Licha, Malacia, Antony. Now you maybe saw that squad and thought they'd get 3rd and a cup but the majority of fans and opposition alike didn't. So yes, by that measure he acheived more than what was expected.

And in regards to your question, there are multiple scenarios where that would have been fine for a first season rebuild:
- if we had played exciting football but was let down by the general lack of quality in the squad
- If it was very tight and we just missed out on the last day
- 5th and a cup etc

Hell I remember having this very discussion on here when he joined. The problem I think with some fans, and this may or may not be applicable to you, is that they are judging this team on levels that the team doesnt deserve. There was no way in hell this was going to be turned around in 1 season and we all knew that. So any fans saying that Ten Hag should have been fighting for the prem or finishing 1st or 2nd with that squad and those signings in his first season are delusional.
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If you told me that our league cup run would be Villa, Burnley, Charlton at home, Forest in the semi and Newcastle in the final, yea I'd have expected a fecking cup.

Same way, if you told me that our FA cup run would be Everton, Reading, West Ham and Fulham at home followed by Brighton in the semis and City in the final, I'd have expected us to get to the final with our plucky run stopping right there.

If you told me Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs would implode last season, I'd have expected 3rd in the league too. Like if you promise me that Villa and Spurs don't get a single point this season from now onwards, I'd expect a top 4 finish from ETH this season and I wouldn't go around calling it "exceeding expectations despite the injuries and poor transfers and club sale".
 
Vidooq said:
There is no way Pep gets this decimated United team into the Top 4 this year, no way. He would kill McTominay as soon as this guy misses a simple pass. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Arteta finished 8th twice before he completely changed the team. Klopp did not qualify for the Top 4 with his injury-stricken team last season. Ten Hag is being compared to them in his second season, coupled with injuries after all of these coaches had 4 and 9 years building their teams.

Whoever thinks that having this many injuries has not affected this team and its performances, knows nothing about football, I'm sorry.
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Go home mate.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
In the context of what was paid, which signings have been poor other than Antony?
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- Onana was the major reason for us crashing out of CL. He was touted for his passing skills which Ive yet to see this season
- We spent 60m on Mount who had 1 year on his contract, plays in a position where the captain / undroppable Bruno plays. Couldve spend this on a defender or anywhere else
- Malacia has dropped of the face of this planet
- Amrabaat loan. we were trying to buy him before FFP saved us

While Mount and Onana can come good. You cant argue that based on what we've seen so far. That 110m couldve gotten us better player(s)
 
Alex99 said:
There are loads of posts basically completely dismissing the injuries as a factor.
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There are posts correctly stating that there's a limit to the extent that injuries can be used as an excuse, or contextualizing the amount of injuries we've had vs. other teams in the league. That's not the same as completely dismissing injuries as a factor or claiming they haven't impacted the team and its performances at all.
 
VP89 said:
I've clarified what I meant by that and showed a more recent article than yours. Which you continue to ignore even though it supports everything I said.
"Don't let me catch you again" - what are you going to even do? Who in the blue hell are you to decide what is true and what is false? I gave my evidences and context on everything I said, and you've resorted to cherry picking lines again.

Idiot post. Checks out.
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The harsh reality that you have to come to terms with is that no matter how many times you try to insult people, it will not turn the stuff you made-up into reality, and trying to move the goal posts doesn't work when people can be objective. What I contested was pretty clear and what you said was made-up. A conversation regarding the effectiveness and efficacy of the processes at United is different to saying what you did - which was verifiably false - and I've already said the processes at United can be criticised without outright fabrications.

The problem is you keep trying to squirm out of the bad positions you took, so you kept replying about me seemingly "failing to acknowledge xyz", and I simply told you I didn't broach those things because they weren't what I was discussing nor would they have changed what I argued.

It's simple - don't let me catch you making stuff up again. Rest
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Yes the name of the club is Manchester United we’re all aware what that implies. Is there no context to be applied beyond that?
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We came top 4 in 2 of the 3 seasons before Ten Hag took over. We were absolute dogshit under Solskjaer and Rangnick in 21/22 yet still finsihed 6th. Ten Hag being an up and coming successful manager at Ajax you would expect would improve things. Then he added £250m worth of players with our biggest ever transfer window. While it was never guaranteed we would come top 4 last season it was hardly unexpected either given the players we have with one the largest wage bills in world football, so while Ten Hag did well last year he didn't perform miracles either. Challenging or even winning the league would have been overachieving not finishing fecking 3rd.


There's your context.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
There are posts correctly stating that there's a limit to the extent that injuries can be used as an excuse, or contextualizing the amount of injuries we've had vs. other teams in the league. That's not the same as completely dismissing injuries as a factor or claiming they haven't impacted the team and its performances at all.
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Ahem

RedBanker said:
Justifiably so.
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Vidooq said:
There is no way Pep gets this decimated United team into the Top 4 this year, no way. He would kill McTominay as soon as this guy misses a simple pass. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Arteta finished 8th twice before he completely changed the team. Klopp did not qualify for the Top 4 with his injury-stricken team last season. Ten Hag is being compared to them in his second season, coupled with injuries after all of these coaches had 4 and 9 years building their teams.

Whoever thinks that having this many injuries has not affected this team and its performances, knows nothing about football, I'm sorry.
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Do you guys never get tired of swinging from the managers bollocks?

We're not even the most affected team in the league and you'd think we're lucky to not be fighting relegation the way some of you go on about the injuries. Sure, it's affected us to a degree but we still have a squad of players that are capable.

wDUyC2V.png
 
Ghostrider318 said:
- Onana was the major reason for us crashing out of CL. He was touted for his passing skills which Ive yet to see this season
- We spent 60m on Mount who had 1 year on his contract, plays in a position where the captain / undroppable Bruno plays. Couldve spend this on a defender or anywhere else
- Malacia has dropped of the face of this planet
- Amrabaat loan. we were trying to buy him before FFP saved us

While Mount and Onana can come good. You cant argue that based on what we've seen so far. That 110m couldve gotten us better player(s)
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Not every signing hits the ground running. Some even take a full season to get into their stride, and that’s when healthy. Antony was a mistake because he should have looked past their relationship at Ajax and seen the risk that the player couldn’t mentally handle playing for United. An experienced DOF with no personal connection to the player would have sniffed that out imo.
 
crossy1686 said:
Do you guys never get tired of swinging from the managers bollocks?

We're not even the most affected team in the league and you'd think we're lucky to not be fighting relegation the way some of you go on about the injuries. Sure, it's affected us to a degree but we still have a squad of players that are capable.

wDUyC2V.png
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So we're more affected than every team above us? Gotcha.
 
stevoc said:
We came top 4 in 2 of the 3 seasons before Ten Hag took over. We were absolute dogshit under Solskjaer and Rangnick in 21/22 yet still finsihed 6th. Ten Hag being an up and coming successful manager at Ajax you would expect would improve things. Then he added £250m worth of players with our biggest ever transfer window. While it was never guaranteed we would come top 4 last season it was hardly unexpected either given the players we have with one the largest wage bills in world football, so while Ten Hag did well last year he didn't perform miracles either. Challenging or even winning the league would have been overachieving not finishing fecking 3rd.


There's your context.
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He surpassed the points total in both of those 2nd and 3rd place finishes last season.
 
TsuWave said:
It's simple - don't let me catch you making stuff up again. Rest
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I've not made things up and I've evidenced the articles that are more upto date than yours to justify it.

And if you don't like that, what are you going to do about it?
 
flameinthesun said:
He took over a team that finished 6th amidst one of the worst united seasons in decades, a team bearing in mind that could not win a final or a meaningful semi final, that was the team he inherited (and even in that you can argue he had a more successful first season than any of Ole's). General consensus was that they were not favourites for top 4 for a reason, even after buying Casemiro who we all knew was a panic buy after not getting De Jong and then Licha, Malacia, Antony. Now you maybe saw that squad and thought they'd get 3rd and a cup but the majority of fans and opposition alike didn't. So yes, by that measure he acheived more than what was expected.

And in regards to your question, there are multiple scenarios where that would have been fine for a first season rebuild:
- if we had played exciting football but was let down by the general lack of quality in the squad
- If it was very tight and we just missed out on the last day
- 5th and a cup etc

Hell I remember having this very discussion on here when he joined. The problem I think with some fans, and this may or may not be applicable to you, is that they are judging this team on levels that the team doesnt deserve. There was no way in hell this was going to be turned around in 1 season and we all knew that. So any fans saying that Ten Hag should have been fighting for the prem or finishing 1st or 2nd with that squad and those signings in his first season are delusional.
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You're taking an isolated season and building your opinion on the team in it. We had a poor season alright, but the team itself wasn't poor considering they finished top 4 the previous 2 seasons, which you can't ignore and focus on the only good season that supports your narrative.

And regarding the finals part, this team managed to knock out multiple big teams in cup competitions during Ole's reign and it was mostly unlucky with the draw, unlike our very favorable draw in that League Cup we won. We had to face Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal, and we faced Man City multiple times in semi finals. Meanwhile, Ten Hag's United strongest opponent in that cup he won was Newcastle. When he faced City in the Fa Cup final, he lost, plain and simple, so the point about not winning a trophy is stretching it. And facing Villareal in EL final is harder than Newcastle in League Cup.

The expectations for any United manager during his first season is to at least finish top 4. "Overachieving" means he challenged for the league.
 
hobbers said:
Nah we we all expecting a 6th place finish apparently. Only ETH's genius could explain us punching so far above our expectations. And now we've simply dipped back to normal levels, along with all the other clubs who spent £440m in two summers and agreed about £900k/week in contract extensions.
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Perhaps these fans expected us to finish 10th (because of the "structure"). So, they are happy we have Ten Hag the Great, who has achieved 6th. It wasn't a surprise to finish bottom of our easy CL group, because what else do you expect from a team that was predicted to finish 10th? And we should not forget that Sir Alex also finished last in CL once... isn't this a clear indication that ETH is the new SAF? Currently, our goal difference is zero, but that's mainly because we are missing Martinez from our defense. Obviously, we have improved a lot from last year since we haven't lost 7-0 to anyone this season.
 
Some of these EtH fans are worse than anything we ever saw from Ole or Jose fans. I think everyone can realise why some had a strong sense of loyalty to Ole and in Jose’s case he’s been our best manager post SAF so his defence is probably the most justified.

What’s crazy with ETH is that he’s the one manager other than Moyes who has clearly failed to achieve what he was brought here to do. His defenders will sweep it under the rug but EtH coming here was meant to modernise our style of play and improve the tactical and technical aspect of the team. It’s why he was a near unanimous choice within the fan base. There was uncontrolled joy at the prospect of no more Oleball and finally playing like the teams at the top of the table.

He has been an absolute disaster judging him based on that. There was no point in getting rid of Ole if this is what we’ve signed up for.

Go back to the new manager threads and he was the choice over Conte because of style of play and attacking football. Looking back we would have been better off playing shite Conte football as we would have better results and the football wouldn’t be that much worse. And we’d also have no Antony.
 
El Jefe said:
Some of these EtH fans are worse than anything we ever saw from Ole or Jose fans. I think everyone can realise why some had a strong sense of loyalty to Ole and in Jose’s case he’s been our best manager post SAF so his defence is probably the most justified.

What’s crazy with ETH is that he’s the one manager other than Moyes who has clearly failed to achieve what he was brought here to do. His defenders will sweep it under the rug but EtH coming here was meant to modernise our style of play and improve the tactical and technical aspect of the team. It’s why he was a near unanimous choice within the fan base. There was uncontrolled joy at the prospect of no more Oleball and finally playing like the teams at the top of the table.

He has been an absolute disaster judging him based on that. There was no point in getting rid of Ole if this is what we’ve signed up for.

Go back to the new manager threads and he was the choice over Conte because of style of play and attacking football. Looking back we would have been better off playing shite Conte football as we would have better results and the football wouldn’t be that much worse. And we’d also have no Antony.
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Keep feeding "ETH fans" nonsense like this to debunk and that's what you'll get. ETH in his first season in charge surpassed Ole's highest point total and trophy haul. Next.
 
el3mel said:
You're taking an isolated season and building your opinion on the team in it. We had a poor season alright, but the team itself wasn't poor considering they finished top 4 the previous 2 seasons, which you can't ignore and focus on the only good season that supports your narrative.

And regarding the finals part, this team managed to knock out multiple big teams in cup competitions during Ole's reign and it was mostly unlucky with the draw, unlike our very favorable draw in that League Cup we won. We had to face Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal, and we faced Man City multiple times in semi finals. Meanwhile, Ten Hag's United strongest opponent in that cup he won was Newcastle. When he faced City in the Fa Cup final, he lost, plain and simple, so the point about not winning a trophy is stretching it. And facing Villareal in EL final is harder than Newcastle in League Cup.

The expectations for any United manager during his first season is to at least finish top 4. "Overachieving" means he challenged for the league.
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Good lord and sweet suffering Jesus do you actually read what you type??!! Isolated season...THAT'S THE ONE AND ONLY FULL SEASON HE'S HAD ON THE JOB. No s*** it's an "isolated season".

I've also noticed you've refused to acknowledge the fact that ETH surpassed the highest point total in both those top 4 finishes. Actually nobody has acknowledged that fact, but I'm in a cult :lol:
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Nee manager bounce usually gets thrown around when someone does well for a few months then turns to shit
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Translation: I can't answer that question in a way that suits my argument so I'll just throw some oversimplified nonsense at it.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Good lord and sweet suffering Jesus do you actually read what you type??!! Isolated season...THAT'S THE ONE AND ONLY FULL SEASON HE'S HAD ON THE JOB. No s*** it's an "isolated season".

I've also noticed you've refused to acknowledge the fact that ETH surpassed the highest point total in both those top 4 finishes. Actually nobody has acknowledged that fact, but I'm in a cult :lol:
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Not really true. Like I said, it was a good season but he failed to build on it. Qualifying for the CL means almost nothing if you just end up finishing bottom of the group.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Not really true. Like I said, it was a good season but he failed to build on it. Qualifying for the CL means almost nothing if you just end up finishing bottom of the group.
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Also points total from a season to an other aren't actually significant(in isolation). Each season has its own dynamic and you can't really translate points from season to the other and as United fans we should know it, our best teams don't actually have the best points totals.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Translation: I can't answer that question in a way that suits my argument so I'll just throw some oversimplified nonsense at it.
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No, that’s what happens. He done well untill February and has been awful since.
Ole did well for months too, well enough to be offered a contract and then it went down hill. His good run at the start for months was passed away as new manager bounce. What is the difference with ten hag
 
Matt851 said:
So you are basically just saying there is nothing the manager could do to improve things. No one doubts its a challenging role but regularly look entirely uncoached and consistently exhibit the same tactical flaws over the best part of a year. Its not asking much to expect him to identify the flaws and do something to address them

You mention all our managers post fergie have struggled and obviously a big part of that is the structure but that has also led to us hiring managers that weren't suited to the job

The fact is ten hag has had more influence over transfers than any manager post fergie and his inadequacies on this front have led to the squad being weaker. For example we could have signed a back up striker or ball playing centre back / left back with the money used on his priority signing (mount) who is injured again after being injured for much of the previous year
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That last paragraph is exactly what we should have done,maybe then losing Martinez,Shaw and Rasmus wouldn't feel so important. We needed to sign players with the same profile as those.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Good lord and sweet suffering Jesus do you actually read what you type??!! Isolated season...THAT'S THE ONE AND ONLY FULL SEASON HE'S HAD ON THE JOB. No s*** it's an "isolated season".

I've also noticed you've refused to acknowledge the fact that ETH surpassed the highest point total in both those top 4 finishes. Actually nobody has acknowledged that fact, but I'm in a cult :lol:
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If all you care about is point totals then he's fallen short of Jose Mourinho, who was deemed not good enough.

He's done absolutely nothing to set himself apart from the previous managers. Why some of you are so desperate to keep him I'll never know. It's a strange hill to want to die on considering the man has no history with the club and it's obvious he's not capable of competing with the best managers in the game.
 
I think it's actually a very fair assessment to say that ETH as a manager is about 1 point better than Ole.

Both are third tier European league level.
 
Ghostrider318 said:
- Onana was the major reason for us crashing out of CL. He was touted for his passing skills which Ive yet to see this season
- We spent 60m on Mount who had 1 year on his contract, plays in a position where the captain / undroppable Bruno plays. Couldve spend this on a defender or anywhere else
- Malacia has dropped of the face of this planet
- Amrabaat loan. we were trying to buy him before FFP saved us

While Mount and Onana can come good. You cant argue that based on what we've seen so far. That 110m couldve gotten us better player(s)
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I could understand the Onana signing as want to move to a different style of GK, however the Antony & Mount money should have been spent elsewhere
 
hobbers said:
I think it's actually a very fair assessment to say that ETH as a manager is about 1 point better than Ole.

Both are third tier European league level.
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Interesting that ETH made the semi final of the CL with Ajax and missed that final by a few seconds. Either ETH is in the third tier and Ole in the fourth or ETH is in the second tier while Ole is in the third.
 
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