Again, I was not offering up an opinion. You are factually incorrect.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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These discussions just make very little sense, I’m not going to drill into this for a hundredth time trying to prove this isn’t some unprecedented worst ever injury crisis and that no manager ever has their full XI available all the time and part of the job is being able to deal with that.
These days it’s just 5 or so posters who have invested so much personal stock invested in ETH they can’t possibly back down now, repeating the same excuses one after another, with virtually everyone else recognizing that he has been inadequate.
At this point, can anyone tell me what he excels at compared to Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole?
Ten Hag has the worst PL stats out of those 4 (lowest points per game and goals per game). Mourinho has more trophies and Van Gaal has the same amount. Ole played more entertaining football and I would argue that Mourinho did too. In terms of controlling the games he's also arguably the worst. Maybe he can share the last place with Ole, but there's not much between them.
The injuries can explain some of this of course, but not everything.
Ten Hag has the worst PL stats out of those 4 (lowest points per game and goals per game). Mourinho has more trophies and Van Gaal has the same amount. Ole played more entertaining football and I would argue that Mourinho did too. In terms of controlling the games he's also arguably the worst. Maybe he can share the last place with Ole, but there's not much between them.
The injuries can explain some of this of course, but not everything.
I have seen a lot of arrogant, self entitled opinions here but this one takes the cake.
How long has ETH been at the job compared to Klopp. What have football professionals, caf geniuses not included, said about the structure ETH came into?
Where do they keep spawning from 
In Klopp's first couple of seasons, even when they were inconsistent and dropping points to "weaker" teams you could see the progress and the potential, I just do not see that with ETH, both were trying to implement a high press but Liverpool never looked as open or as toothless as we do
I think the consensus seems to be we were not supposed to finish top 4, though this was a reasonable expectation having finished top 4 in 2 of the previous 3 seasons, spent £200m as well as Chelsea, Tottenham and Liverpool seeing a major drop in performance level.
Funny coming from you. If I wanted to be rich I'd buy your opinion for how much it's worth and sell it for how much you think it's worth. By the way, he eclipsed the previous manager's highest point total in his first season.
I'm just a humble student at your school of arrogant, self entitled points of view.
ETH excels at unknowingly but successfully engaging in elite level trolling a bunch of CAF posters by just not being sacked.
Last season was a good, not great, season. ETH gets plenty of credit for it.
However, he should've built on that, and he didn't. Instead we've gone backwards by every conceivable metric.
The worst part is that it's such a pathetic hill to die on.
At least Ole is a legend with some charisma. Jose has charisma. Even LVG had some charisma. And they all managed us to some impressive wins in big games. There was at least something there to cling to.
ETH has nothing but bad football, embarrassing results and deluded interviews, but still there are some ignorant barnacles stuck on his hull.
I also don’t get it, the whole vibe of us owing everything to him for delivering League Cup victory, just doesn’t feel right.
I said it before but I'm struggling to find a single reason for Ten Hag to have such fanbase. Some here are defending him as if us succeeding under him out of all people matter to them a lot. I can see such view with ex legends like Ole or a manager who gives us a lot and is having a poor period like Klopp at Liverpool last season, but Ten Hag doesn't check both boxes, is performing terribly, yet some here weirdly adore him and care about him as if he's an icon for the club.
Weird but alright.
The calibre of opponents doesnt help with that feeling. Burnley, Charlton, Forest, Newcastle.
And the fact that our football and results turned to utter shit a week after winning, and havent shifted since.
Feels like a big con job.
Well obviously much shorter. Which is why I don't hold it against him that the backups have a different profile than the starters. What I hold against him is that he treats them as if they didn't.
So every team deals with injuries and we haven't had the worst ever injury crisis. How insightful. Meanwhile in the real word, there is a bit of a middle ground between worst ever and median. It's called an inordinate amount of injuries, and factually speaking, we've had an inordinate amount of injuries. Stop giving me unserious posts to respond to and I'll respond seriously.
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Personally I think he's a sacked man walking. We just can't be bothered to look for an interim right now.
ETH and his family prolly.
Stats and injuries aside does anyone just judge the football they are watching by what the see anymore?
For me you can put all your facts and figures away, what I see for 90 minutes every game is what it all comes down to,
I watch us and see some of the most inept performances I have seen by a club, not just Utd, we look like a newly promoted Championship team on a quick yo-yo tour of the Prem
For me you can put all your facts and figures away, what I see for 90 minutes every game is what it all comes down to,
I watch us and see some of the most inept performances I have seen by a club, not just Utd, we look like a newly promoted Championship team on a quick yo-yo tour of the Prem
Yup.
That I can agree with he has struggled to find the right balance between at times between completely going into a shell and playing like his entire preferred 11 is out there. It's tough in the Premier League as well because almost every team now has quality that can hurt you. There's also a few players that have to play but don't have the traits to execute what the manager is trying to do (hence the efforts to sell a couple more over the summer) which goes back to finding the balance between accommodating those players out of necessity and at the same time not changing the way we play completely.
Think this is it at it's very core -- at the end of the day, in the grand scheme of things, I just don't think Hag is ultimately fit for purpose at the level expected. Give him an injury free squad, more money to sign some SEG players; whatever... nothing is changing that fact.
Watching is fun. Watching and applying context is even more fun.
I see you struggle with admitting you're wrong. It's simple, you are wrong, and these were made up:
Other posters have repeatedly pointed out - all things considered - the simpler and more likely option; that out of the shortlisted targets the manager preferred Antony, which the club agreed with/to.
I don't think I ever broached these things because they weren't what I was discussing nor do they change what I was arguing.
I read your article stating Ten Hag had reservations about returning to Ajax. Same article later stated he undoubtedly wanted Antony. Furthermore, there are two other instances in which The Athletic say he was eager to sign him, and pushed for a swift reunion with Antony. With Ten Hag's input being described as "decisive". Evidently, it has to be agreed with and by the club. I also don't know where you got the "Gakpo was a Ten Hag name anyway" thing from. You said "Gakpo in his own interviews has stated he has had close conversations with the manager who knew him well" seemingly as the basis for that. I don't know how you surmised so much from so little. From recollection we were linked with Gakpo prior to Ten Hag being appointed - I mean, Antony himself was reportedly already in a three man shortlist before Ten Hag was appointed. Either way - it doesn't change what I was arguing.
I think processes at United can be criticised without outright fabrications that place the manager in favourable lighting, such as; "Klopp as data scientists and scouts, Ten Hag has feck all" and "the club present no options/alternative to/for Antony".
There's no reason to fabricate anything when managers who have worked here under the former structure have said it's impossible to succeed here.
Why did we sack them, then ?
Other than Antony, who he should have known couldn't mentally cope with the circus and pressure of playing for United given he managed him, which big money transfer has fallen completely flat?
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you've been watching football long enough to understand that calling Mason Mount a flop after a handful of matches and a long term injury is completely asinine.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you've been watching football long enough to understand that calling Mason Mount a flop after a handful of matches and a long term injury is completely asinine.
Half agree and half disagree. We're obviously a much better team with Martinez and Shaw in there, that's obvious, but we didn't do great against a few teams early on in the season when both those two were playing- that 1-0 in the opening game against Wolves kind of set the tone for our entire season really. I do think EtH has been unlucky though.
If our previous years are anything to go by then the next manager will do well for one season and everyone on here will say how it was all Erik ten Hag's fault, he was a bad man manager, etc., and then the players will turn in crappy performances again the moment anything is expected of them, and then the fans will blame the manager once more. If INEOS can break this cycle then they'll have done a good job.
Last season? I'm not sure there were a lot of people confident at the start of the season of getting top 4, let alone 3rd and a cup.
As for Mount, the only defensible rationale for bringing him in last summer was to replace Bruno. We'll see if Bruno is sold this summer.
Color me intrigued to find out what the point of that question was.
This thread is like trying to walk through a flock of sheep going the other way, uphill, in the dark. It’s very hard work at times!
Im glad there are a few of us that have the patience and understanding of this situation to not just lump it all on the manager and go for the quick fix. Hopefully the new hierarchy will see it the same way.
Solid argument, but neither Martinez nor Shaw were fit earlier this season.
There sure weren't, but they'll revise history because being right is more important than the club.
Don't know about Shaw but yes, Martinez was noticeably struggling in the opening games, so I agree with that. We didn't even see much of his typical style of passing which i remember at the time was weird.
Thing is, there may well be a difference between the tactics the manager is trying to use, and how the players interpret that on the field. It’s too simplistic to simply blame Erik when our squad is so disjointed, our players so unreliable, our hierarchy in flux and our club standards on the floor.
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