Hes under intense pressure already. He also doesn't help himself. I'm firmly in the out camp and have been for a while now. Barring absolute disaster I think he gets till the summer as no gain bringing in a Interim Bayern in same situ but they announced their Man leaving. (My guess is to Entice Alonso.). City and Liverpool are at their peak and we are pretty much at our bottom. One thing for sure over these 2 games will be this is a chance for ETH to show he can get his tactics right. Not saying we have to win both games playing amazing footy but hopefully he can make the most and we at least perform well that would be a start other than a drubbing each time and tactically a mess.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Many lesser teams have given both of them a game in recent weeks. Winning will be tough but we should be competitive.
Agree with a lot of your post, but this is just wrong. He is 54. "Quite young" for a coach is everything up to at max early 40s, who usually makes his first steps as head coach/manager at this age after ending his playing career. Nagelsmann coached in the Bundesliga before turning 30! EtH was quite young for a coach a decade ago when he took over Go Ahead Eagles, he surely isn't any more. In the PL only Moyes, Postecoglu, Wilder and Klopp are older! "Quite young" PL managers right now are Kompany, Arteta, Iraola and Edwards.
You can't actually believe that after we lost our 2 opening games, there was serious concern about relegation? Like, what are we talking about here?
I don’t really get that either. Surely no one expected us to be relegated last year? Even in that horrific 2021-22 season we finished 6th.
You can't actually believe that after we lost our 2 opening games, there was serious concern about relegation? Like, what are we talking about here?
I find his judgement of players really worrying when he believes Antony is one of the quickest players of the first 10 yards, even the reporter questioned that odd statement
People will defend ETH on the Antony situation but it was clearly all him and even today he is still backing him to the hilt. This is the same ETH that was insistent on De Jong to the point of getting the club humiliated that summer which then led us into panic buying Casemiro. That move alone shows how much in control of transfers he was in and how we wouldn't have paid such a fee for a player our scouts had written off without his push.
Its clear as day, ETH was the driving force behind the Antony deal and anyone arguing otherwise is just putting lipstick on a pig. The reason Murtough and Arnold deserved the sack is that they abdicated their responsibilities to ETH and he has led us into a few expensive and disastrous mistakes that are holding us back right now.
Does he need to respond? That's what analyst are paid to do. His job is to shut them up by United standard football which he has failed to delivered. If I am a player with today's mentality, ETH is not a coach that I will give my most. ETH lacks charisma to motivate these players and it is showing on the field.
- To Malacia, no idea, injured preseason and hasn’t been seen since, for 13 million to be a back up, I think he has performed fine when asked.
- Mount, as I said, I wouldn’t have bought him at all as he’s slowly turning into a more expensive DVB, especially seeing as we always play Bruno.
You can't actually believe that after we lost our 2 opening games, there was serious concern about relegation? Like, what are we talking about here?
It was obviously hysterical nonsense, but we looked so bad in those opening two games that some people were absolutely looking at Liverpool as the next fixture, expecting us to get battered, and then looking at every fixture after and saying that we could lose all of them (or at least fail to win any) without massive improvements on the pitch.
No one (sensible) actually expected us to be in a relegation battle, but there were definitely nutters out there pronouncing the end of days after the Brentford defeat.
Not really sure anyone with an ounce of common sense thought that. Worse case was ETH got sacked and someone else came in,
I agree that everyone who thought it was daft as a brush, but there were some of them out there.
The line I got from a doom-merchant mate was that even sacking him would be too late because morale would be so low.
Obviously we beat Liverpool in the next match and it all went away extremely quickly.
Worrying alright , I know he needs to stand by his players but comes across as very delusional when you see the actual output we get from Anthony , ETH said he was unstoppable but it seems our issue is that we cannot get him started.
If the upcoming City and Liverpool games go as expected and we fail to beat either Everton or Brentford he really shouldn't last beyond March.
What does 'need" have to with it? He has every right to respond to any attack on him, end of story. To pretend he doesn's us just weird.
So because "it's their job' they should NEVER be responded to? Is that it?
Lamest line of reasoning I have EVER had. In the United job you are attacked whether you do well or not. That's a given.
It's even better you are not a player playing for United currently, if your attitude is to only give your all when your team plays in a champagne manner. You'd probably strut about the place as lazily and uncaring as Rashford, If you are serious with what you just posted.
talk of attacking a repeated straw man. The problem is Antony was bought for 80m and people insist on pretending ETH wanted him at that fee and RATED him at that fee! That is where the entire x blame him for Antony signing" narrative stems from. The utterly false premise that he is responsible for the 80m price tag and forced the football department to pay it. An argument built of world class idiocy.
Its defending basic common sense to reject the argument. Not ETH.....
I’m absolutely Erik in at this point, and I’ve pretty much written off the rest of this season with the injuries we have. The fact that we’ve spent so much money and are unable to deal with injuries to 3 first team starters (Shaw, Martinez, and Hojlund) is absolutely criminal though. It’s the culmination of the mismanagement and dreadful squad building, where the back up players we have are either 1) such a huge drop off in standard, 2) unable to play the same system, so even if they’re a decent option, they’re not a fit for whatever we’ve tried to play in the games preceding, or 3) permanently injured themselves.
Huge overhaul needed in the summer, and then Erik has to have a good season.
Huge overhaul needed in the summer, and then Erik has to have a good season.
Although he isn't directly responsible for the fee, he was the one that insisted on signing Anthony, we had tried to sign at a lower fee but been pushed back by Ajax because we had already taken Martinez off them and they didn't want to sell another 'star' player.
He pushed for Anthony despite there being other options knowing full well we would have to pay over the odds.
He may not be directly responsible for the fee but he played a big part in it.
ETH's supporter, I see. Let's see Ineos keeps him.
We will probably get decent points against Everton and Brentford, and you cannot expect a result at City with how we've performed against them before.
Liverpool in FA Cup is actually going to be massive. Winning FA Cup would be something. It would be one trophy to win where we will not have to say 'we won a cup' and avoid mentioning the name of the competition as frequently done with League Cup win last year.
Still a rubbish argument no matter HOW its stretched. He is not responsible for the fee, end of story. It's also rather funny people want to pretend Antony NEVER arrived in a squad with the talents of Sancho, the possiblity MG could return in the future post his legal woes, let alone arrived with a decent reputation from Ajax and was simply "ear marked' as a starter rather than an option with potential for the right flank, "for no rhyme or reason."
The entire thing is an a front to basic common sense. Period!
Well then... who is? I've seen reports that United's scouting evaluated Antony on around 25m. Who did insist on him at all costs?
Even at out best there isn't a chance in hell we best Liverpool and City in following rounds of a cup competition. If we are to be brutally honest. If we win the fa cup it would be a straight up miracle
United Managers after 64 PL Games.
Yes, ETH has the highest win percentage. He also has the highest loss percentage and lowest total GD, scoring the least amount of goals and conceding the most. It's worth pointing out that he's lost over double the amount of games as Jose did. You did read that right, our goal difference after 64 games is +15
Even LVG who played the worst zombie football and was near the end of his career with us managed to score more goals.
Manager | Win % | Loss % | CS | Games | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Total Points |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Jose | 54.69% | 14.06% | 32 | 64 | 35 | 20 | 9 | 105 | 47 | 58 | 125 |
Ten Hag | 57.81% | 29.69% | 24 | 64 | 37 | 8 | 19 | 94 | 79 | 15 | 119 |
Ole | 51.56% | 23.44% | 19 | 64 | 33 | 16 | 15 | 112 | 73 | 39 | 115 |
LVG | 48.44% | 23.44% | 23 | 64 | 31 | 18 | 15 | 95 | 61 | 34 | 111 |
Yes, ETH has the highest win percentage. He also has the highest loss percentage and lowest total GD, scoring the least amount of goals and conceding the most. It's worth pointing out that he's lost over double the amount of games as Jose did. You did read that right, our goal difference after 64 games is +15
Even LVG who played the worst zombie football and was near the end of his career with us managed to score more goals.
Give the guy a break, we've had a CB injured most of this season. Of course we won't score many goals.
The ones in charge of our football abd recruitment department of course! The likes of Murtough, Judge etc who can neither negotiate for, buy nor sell players competently. Yet instead our fans repeatedly insist on blaming every manager that passes under those incompetent hands and our scouting department whose recomendations they regularly ignore. Why do people think a known competent club builder like Ragnick declared "open heart surgery' was needed? Why do people actually think INEOS are taking their time hiring a new CEO, DOF and other related personnel if they could simply replace the manager and the scouts to "fix things"?
Scoring a goal less than fecking LvG is criminal.
Re: Hojlund, when the time came to actually negotiate, Atalanta went way higher than the 50m. No way would anyone be able to get the player for the 50m in that window. We'd have had to wait it out but then he's a talented player so it's likely he would have been worth the 86 if we waited. Anyway, we got it to 64m without the addons. Not higher than the 60m limit.
Re: Mount, not seeing there where we panicked because of Liverpool and Arsenal. Other articles will tell you that Man Utd were the frontrunner and Mount wanted to come. Liverpool and Arsenal were in for him too but they cooled their interests IIRC and had it on the back burner.
I don’t know. They have been knocked out by weaker teams before. We are not some underdogs.
A very interesting stat. I don't like watching clubs, games played for a draw or safety first. That 'we must always win' Ten Hag attitude is perfectly shown and I know with him as manager every time a United game is on, it is probably worth watching. With LvG, especially the 2nd season, it was just endlessly boring sideways passing.
I'm stoked for the Manchester City game. I feared Antony would be a disaster as usual but yesterday he was great. Didn't think Casemiro or Amrabat would make any difference either but they also performed. But I also never, ever expected Rashford to have 30 goals in a season. Ever. It goes to show with Ten Hag you just never know who will step up but that some players will step up, is more and more evident. Here is to hoping that Rashford is going to produce a great game against City.
* Malacia was supposed to hit the grass this week.
* Mount I have no clue. Does anyone have news on him?
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Less goals scored than LVG. While conceding 20 more. Let that sink in for the couple of ETH stalwarts still clinging to the bampot idea that he knows what he's doing.
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I think when Atalanta turn to Hojlund and say "you can leave for £50m in the window", it doesnt give them much power on negotiation. I can understand £55+5 or something to give them a little extra, but 86, fecking hell that is poor negotiations.
Re. Mount you can believe what you want but the Athletic article makes two things clear, 1) Murtough was aware of Liverpool/Arsenal interest and 2) despite knowing that he has Chelsea over a barrel and could go in for £40m, he fecked it and spent £20m more.
That's about £30-40m of an overspend on 2 players alone. And I'm quite sure he fecked up the Antony deal too as it was well reported that Antony was promised he can go in that summer window for a smaller fee.
We are truly dreadful to watch though.
In these times we are, honestly
Yeh , im sticking with him aswell , but he could run out of road.
Why should we be competitive ?
City and Pool both teams that either win or challange for leagues and european competitions regularly. And United spend money, badly . . United have just been taken over on the football side by a person who basically said the club has been setup to not properly help its managers for over a decade. I know many wont factor in our injury crisis, but most reasonable people accept its just decimated us and any hope of Momentum building this season. Momentum isnt built by style of football, its built with being able to play the way you want consistently with mostly the same team. It also builds confidence throughout the club. Klopp can bring in a bunch of youngsters who will play with confident 1st teamers that know any 1 or 2 loses wont be the end of their season. We cant do that because its been a firefight since week 1 of the season.
Even looking at the games from a perspective of being derbys that are tradionally less to do with form or ability (and usually bring up shock results), I cant remember too many times over the last 11 years seeing United beat Liverpool or City and thought "that was a commanding win". Ironically it was probably when we beat them with ETH last season, but funnily enough many gave Klopp a pass because of the gruelling season Pool had the season before when ETH is not afforded such a luxury for a similar season last year.
I understand that ETH has no credit in the bank (like Klopp last year) and so will not get any sort of relief if we get thumped. But now till the end of the season is about results, not performances, whether its ETH or an Interim. Some fans need to STFU about performances when we win cause they dont matter, they really dont, in many cases performances matter less the nearer it gets to the end of the season.
Are you honestly asking why we should be competitive in games against Liverpool and City? Are standards really this abysmally low now?
Even in the worst of times Liverpool always gave us a game. We could be winning title after title under Fergie but whenever we went to Anfield, it would be a tough game. Likewise with City, they've been great for a while but even when they were dumpster fire team lingering between Premier League and lower divisions, you could always be certain that they'd make it tough for us when we went there and likewise when they came to Old Trafford.
On top of that, even recently they have hardly been battering teams on a weekly basis. City have not won by more than 2 goals in the league since early November and all their recent victories have been close wins. Liverpool have multiple players out and are battling on three fronts still. Of course we can lose both games, they are better than us, but we must give them a game rather than just surrender and take the loss as we have been too many times in recent years. If we just go to City this weekend and lose 4-0 without putting up a fight, it'll be embarrassing regardless of how much better than us they are.
It's actually insane that he has that many points overall with the injury crisis he had this season. Thanks for sharing that
Doesn't matter what a club tells a player, it matters what they say to the other club. When they start at 86m then it's not going to drop down to 50m. At that point you either move on to another player or you don't. In the end, the alternatives cost roughly the same amount to PSG i.e Ramos and Kolo Muani. In that context, we were never going to get Hojlund for 50m. Atalanta saw the market and pissed on whatever they told the player when negotiations between the clubs started. We paid roughly market price when you look at the transfers of other attackers last summer.
You can't look at the Mount matter without considering that whatever the interest of other clubs, Mount wanted Man Utd. Can disagree and hate the final price and dislike the negotiations but we didn't panic buy him because of the other clubs. There's no evidence of that.
I am asking why we should be competitive when you look at what we have been doing for the last decade. If we have beaten either, its generally been considered becasue either Pool/City played poorly or we caught them off guard. Even when we beat city 3-2, we could of been 5 down at HT and City didnt see the Pogba display coming, we totally robbed it.
You see, I am not saying we should not be compeititive, I am saying we just havent been properly competitive (I mean we look at strong) in a long long time. In any given game a team can be competitive against another. I think of when we beat PSG away, thats generally about as compeitive we usually get against Pool/City and its more of a counter attacking hit and hope compeitive.
The reality is that United have not been seriously competitive at that level since SAF left. That is just a fact. We have never seriously challanged for a league or CL so we arent really a serious team. We have been a "qualify for the top 4 and maybe win the odd big game" team. Thats been us consistently for a decade. So when you say "competitve " I am presuming you mean more then just scraping a win with prob some luck which has been the standard we have been at for years.
Yeah he's acting like we are Bielsa's Leeds where our losses are 5-4 and we win by 3 or 4 every once in a while...
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