Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Sarni]

I am asking why we should be competitive when you look at what we have been doing for the last decade. If we have beaten either, its generally been considered becasue either Pool/City played poorly or we caught them off guard. Even when we beat city 3-2, we could of been 5 down at HT and City didnt see the Pogba display coming, we totally robbed it.

You see, I am not saying we should not be compeititive, I am saying we just havent been properly competitive (I mean we look at strong) in a long long time. In any given game a team can be competitive against another. I think of when we beat PSG away, thats generally about as compeitive we usually get against Pool/City and its more of a counter attacking hit and hope compeitive.

The reality is that United have not been seriously competitive at that level since SAF left. That is just a fact. We have never seriously challanged for a league or CL so we arent really a serious team. We have been a "qualify for the top 4 and maybe win the odd big game" team. Thats been us consistently for a decade. So when you say "competitve " I am presuming you mean more then just scraping a win with prob some luck which has been the standard we have been at for years.

Not really true, it has not really been that long since we were giving both of them a game. It's only in the last 2.5 years that we got used to being battered by both of them on a regular basis, first in 2021-22 in all games against both (4 absolutely pathetic displays) and then last year at both Etihad and Anfield (even worse than the year before but we at least handled them both well at home).

Prior to that we did not lose to City in the league for 3 years, beating them 3 times out of 4, andwith Liverpool all games were at least close (though they were beating us more frequently than we were beating them, unlike City). Then you have to go back to Moyes days to see us getting stomped by both of them so easily.

I'm not saying I expect us to challenge them for the title, not gonna happen with this squad, coach or setup, however these one off games the minimum I expect is for our players to make it hard for them to beat us (and not just fluke a result, but actually put in a performance we can be proud of). If the likes of Fulham, Bournemouth, Wolves can give them a game, score multiple goals, challenge them, then so can we as we proved at OT last season.

 

[Vault Dweller]

United Managers after 64 PL Games.

Manager​	Win %​	Loss %​	CS​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Total Points​
Jose​	54.69%​	14.06%​	32​	64​	35​	20​	9​	105​	47​	58​	125​
Ten Hag​	57.81%​	29.69%​	24​	64​	37​	8​	19​	94​	79​	15​	119​
Ole​	51.56%​	23.44%​	19​	64​	33​	16​	15​	112​	73​	39​	115​
LVG​	48.44%​	23.44%​	23​	64​	31​	18​	15​	95​	61​	34​	111​

Yes, ETH has the highest win percentage. He also has the highest loss percentage and lowest total GD, scoring the least amount of goals and conceding the most. It's worth pointing out that he's lost over double the amount of games as Jose did. You did read that right, our goal difference after 64 games is +15

Even LVG who played the worst zombie football and was near the end of his career with us managed to score more goals.

Good work that @RedSky. Makes for some brutal reading for ETH.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Less goals scored the LVG. While conceding 20 more. Let that sink in for the couple of ETH stalwarts still clinging to the bampot idea that he knows what he's doing.

Its almost like ETH having to deal with either Weghorst/Martial (or Rashford who isnt a striker) as our strikers and LVG having seasoned, experienced, proven RVP and Rooney helped united score more goals.

 

[VP89]

Doesn't matter what a club tells a player, it matters what they say to the other club. When they start at 86m then it's not going to drop down to 50m. At that point you either move on to another player or you don't. In the end, the alternatives cost roughly the same amount to PSG i.e Ramos and Kolo Muani. In that context, we were never going to get Hojlund for 50m. Atalanta saw the market and pissed on whatever they told the player when negotiations between the clubs started. We paid roughly market price when you look at the transfers of other attackers last summer.

You can't look at the Mount matter without considering that whatever the interest of other clubs, Mount wanted Man Utd. Can disagree and hate the final price and dislike the negotiations but we didn't panic buy him because of the other clubs. There's no evidence of that.

It does matter what the club advise the player, because that player can then force a move on the pretence of being led on. What we know for sure, beyond reasonable doubt, is that Murtough overpaid for Mount, Hojlund and Antony.

We certainly did panic on Mount, we tried to tie him down early ahead of the striker move, despite knowing we hold all the cards and could have probably got him for £40m.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Not really true, it has not really been that long since we were giving both of them a game. It's only in the last 2.5 years that we got used to being battered by both of them on a regular basis, first in 2021-22 in all games against both (4 absolutely pathetic displays) and then last year at both Etihad and Anfield (even worse than the year before but we at least handled them both well at home).

Prior to that we did not lose to City in the league for 3 years, beating them 3 times out of 4, andwith Liverpool all games were at least close (though they were beating us more frequently than we were beating them, unlike City).

I'm not saying I expect us to challenge them for the title, not gonna happen with this squad, coach or setup, however these one off games the minimum I expect is for our players to make it hard for them to beat us (and not just fluke a result, but actually put in a performance we can be proud of). If the likes of Fulham, Bournemouth, Wolves can give them a game, score multiple goals, challenge them, then so can we as we proved at OT last season.

On any given day any team can compete. If Fulham, wolves and Bournmouth compete with them its a surprise, not an expected thing. If United compete, properly compete with Liverpool/City pretty much any season its a surprise.

Again, when we look at United there is no consistency, no benchmark for you to be able to say "look, we are man united and consistently compete with the best teams" becasue we dont. We scrap the odd win. Thats just the reality of where we have been as a club.

I dont understand how, with all the issues this season and even yourself complaining about how bad things are, that you now are setting this competitive standard that I dont think has existed for awhile. If we play sh&t in those games and dont lose and conceded 100 shots, I prefer that to playing nice patterns and getting tonked. I dont think we have the personell available to be choosy in how we do in games right now.

 

[Alex99]

I am asking why we should be competitive when you look at what we have been doing for the last decade. If we have beaten either, its generally been considered becasue either Pool/City played poorly or we caught them off guard. Even when we beat city 3-2, we could of been 5 down at HT and City didnt see the Pogba display coming, we totally robbed it.

You see, I am not saying we should not be compeititive, I am saying we just havent been properly competitive (I mean we look at strong) in a long long time. In any given game a team can be competitive against another. I think of when we beat PSG away, thats generally about as compeitive we usually get against Pool/City and its more of a counter attacking hit and hope compeitive.

The reality is that United have not been seriously competitive at that level since SAF left. That is just a fact. We have never seriously challanged for a league or CL so we arent really a serious team. We have been a "qualify for the top 4 and maybe win the odd big game" team. Thats been us consistently for a decade. So when you say "competitve " I am presuming you mean more then just scraping a win with prob some luck which has been the standard we have been at for years.

The "even at their worst they gave us a game" thing doesn't really ring true anyway. We went six straight seasons (02/03 to 07/08) where their best results against us were single a 1-0 win and a single 0-0 draw, with us beating them in every other game, including a 3-0 and a 4-0.

Even though we haven't won at Anfield since 15/16, we've still drawn there four times, and we've beaten them at Old Trafford twice, drawing a further three.

People can't look past the humiliating results now. "Competitive" has essentially become code for "batter them" because we have been competitive against them a fair few times, but they don't count because we didn't win by three or more goals.

It ignores all you've highlighted about our relative, overall standing in the game these days, and relies solely on chest-thumping, "we're Manchester United!" and a desire to get revenge for the big losses.

 

[hobbers]

Its almost like ETH having to deal with either Weghorst/Martial (or Rashford who isnt a striker) as our strikers and LVG having seasoned, experienced, proven RVP and Rooney helped united score more goals.

ETH fell in love with Martial in his first pre season and decided he was the guy to build around last season. Martial still being here is his fault.

Also is this the same RVP who was injured the entire second half of LVG's first season and then shitcanned in the summer, and the same Rooney who was well jaded and past it?

Dont have to just look at goals either. ETH's football is even more dire to watch than LVG's, and only one of them knows how to get results in big games.

 

[Amira]

United Managers after 64 PL Games.

Manager​	Win %​	Loss %​	CS​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Total Points​
Jose​	54.69%​	14.06%​	32​	64​	35​	20​	9​	105​	47​	58​	125​
Ten Hag​	57.81%​	29.69%​	24​	64​	37​	8​	19​	94​	79​	15​	119​
Ole​	51.56%​	23.44%​	19​	64​	33​	16​	15​	112​	73​	39​	115​
LVG​	48.44%​	23.44%​	23​	64​	31​	18​	15​	95​	61​	34​	111​

Yes, ETH has the highest win percentage. He also has the highest loss percentage and lowest total GD, scoring the least amount of goals and conceding the most. It's worth pointing out that he's lost over double the amount of games as Jose did. You did read that right, our goal difference after 64 games is +15

Even LVG who played the worst zombie football and was near the end of his career with us managed to score more goals.

Really excellent post. Stats can be used to paint almost any narrative until there’s complete context. Well done

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

ETH fell in love with Martial in his first pre season and decided he was the guy to build around last season. Martial still being here is his fault.

Also is this the same RVP who was injured the entire second half of LVG's first season and then shitcanned in the summer, and the same Rooney who was well jaded and past it?

Dont have to just look at goals either. ETH's football is even more dire to watch than LVG's, and only one of them knows how to get results in big games.

ETH fell in love with Martial ? Wow, that statement explains alot .....

RVP and Rooney unfit are better then Weghorst/Martial unfit. But are you saying that having injuries affects how a team plays or amount of goals scored ? And this doesnt apply to ETH who has had a far worse injury problem becasue ?

Unless of course injuries can only be factored in when it suits something you want to believe ?

 

[RedSky]

Its almost like ETH having to deal with either Weghorst/Martial (or Rashford who isnt a striker) as our strikers and LVG having seasoned, experienced, proven RVP and Rooney helped united score more goals.

Well that is in part ETH's fault though. He's partly responsible for spending the money and where to spend it. His big block buster signing has been a complete flop and Hojlund took half a season to settle down.

If you look at the 40 PL games we've played since the League Cup Final we've scored a grand total of 53 goals, in that same time period Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City, Newcastle United, Brighton And Hove Albion, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Hotspur, West Ham United, Brentford, Chelsea, Fulham, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Nottingham Forest have all scored more than us in the PL. The warning signs were there last season and all we added to our forward lineup was a 20 year old CF. We really should have brought in another forward which is what most of the Caf agreed on at that time.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Really excellent post. Stats can be used to paint almost any narrative until there’s complete context. Well done

How do we also factor in what ETH has had to deal with in his first 64 games versus what LVG/JOSE/OLE had to deal with?

Therein likes probably the big difference (and misunderstanding) between those ranting about ETH being sacked and those of us who think hes been managing a sh*tshow.

 

[hobbers]

ETH fell in love with Martial ? Wow, that statement explains alot .....

RVP and Rooney unfit are better then Weghorst/Martial unfit. But are you saying that having injuries affects how a team plays or amount of goals scored ? And this doesnt apply to ETH who has had a far worse injury problem becasue ?

Unless of course injuries can only be factored in when it suits something you want to believe ?

Why has he had a far worse injury problem?

You can keep repeating that as much as you like, it's not true.

ETH also chose to back players with known injury problems like Martial and Mount. His fault.

 

[Alex99]

Well that is in part ETH's fault though. He's partly responsible for spending the money and where to spend it. His big block buster signing has been a complete flop and Hojlund took half a season to settle down.

If you look at the 40 PL games we've played since the League Cup Final we've scored a grand total of 53 goals, in that same time period Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City, Newcastle United, Brighton And Hove Albion, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Hotspur, West Ham United, Brentford, Chelsea, Fulham, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Nottingham Forest have all scored more than us in the PL. The warning signs were there last season and all we added to our forward lineup was a 20 year old CF. We really should have brought in another forward which is what most of the Caf agreed on at that time.

When will people stop with this shit?

He doesn't negotiate the deals or control how the budget is spent in any meaningful way other than saying which positions are a priority. That's all on other people at the club. It, again, ignores that he shouldn't be picking transfer targets in that manner in the first place.

There's enough to criticise him for (including how ineffective Antony has been, even if caveated) without constantly resorting to blaming him for the club's woefully inadequate transfer structure, when it's feck all to do with him.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Why has he had a far worse injury problem?

You can keep repeating that as much as you like, it's not true.

ETH also chose to back players with known injury problems like Martial and Mount. His fault.

Fuppin hell, you really are that far out there, I cant keep correcting you...

 

[Sarni]

The "even at their worst they gave us a game" thing doesn't really ring true anyway. We went six straight seasons (02/03 to 07/08) where their best results against us were single a 1-0 win and a single 0-0 draw, with us beating them in every other game, including a 3-0 and a 4-0.

Even though we haven't won at Anfield since 15/16, we've still drawn there four times, and we've beaten them at Old Trafford twice, drawing a further three.

People can't look past the humiliating results now. "Competitive" has essentially become code for "batter them" because we have been competitive against them a fair few times, but they don't count because we didn't win by three or more goals.

It ignores all you've highlighted about our relative, overall standing in the game these days, and relies solely on chest-thumping, "we're Manchester United!" and a desire to get revenge for the big losses.

No, competitive means don't fold, lose 4-0 and think it's ok. Don't try to turn me into some sort of a nut job that expects us to go to City and beat them by 5 goals.

Even in your selected period, vast majority of those games were 1-goal hard fought wins, not comparable with what Liverpool has done to us in recent years. I mean they literally came to Old Trafford and were 5-0 up after 50 minutes, they beat us 4-0 at Anfield without breaking a sweat and then handed us our worst PL era defeat very recently. Likewise City, they've beaten us 3-0 at OT without even trying and put 6 past us at Etihad. Their win at OT this year was literally their easiest away game of the season so far.

I don't mind it if we lose to them by a goal or two after a close, hard fought game. They are the better teams. The fact we have had 4/5 (I think our 2-0 loss to City at OT, despite relatively low score, was utterly pathetic) utterly embarrassing displays against both of them over the course of slightly more than 24 months is however unacceptable.

 

[hobbers]

He doesn't negotiate the deals or control how the budget is spent in any meaningful way other than saying which positions are a priority.

that and which players he wants for those positions.

Fuppin hell, you really are that far out there, I cant keep correcting you...

True, you'd have to start being correct for that.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

When will people stop with this shit?

He doesn't negotiate the deals or control how the budget is spent in any meaningful way other than saying which positions are a priority. That's all on other people at the club. It, again, ignores that he shouldn't be picking transfer targets in that manner in the first place.

There's enough to criticise him for (including how ineffective Antony has been, even if caveated) without constantly resorting to blaming him for the club's woefully inadequate transfer structure, when it's feck all to do with him.

I am at the point where I am more angry with myself for engaging, not the other posters. . They know what they know and by god will go down fighting to defend it..

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Why has he had a far worse injury problem?

You can keep repeating that as much as you like, it's not true.

ETH also chose to back players with known injury problems like Martial and Mount. His fault.

Mount with known injury problems? This place is becoming the national enquirer

 

[RedSky]

How do we also factor in what ETH has had to deal with in his first 64 games versus what LVG/JOSE/OLE had to deal with?

Therein likes probably the big difference (and misunderstanding) between those ranting about ETH being sacked and those of us who think hes been managing a sh*tshow.

They've all dealt with different problems and all had injury problems throughout, it's been a regular issue for far too long.

- LVG had the immediate post Sir Alex expectations and the mess that needed fixing after Moyes. Alongside that he had to deal with Woodward.
- Jose had perhaps the easiest time of it given our expectations were so low. But he still had to deal with Woodward and had problems with player power (Martial, Pogba).
- Ole faced Covid and the insane schedule with a half fit, demoralised squad. Again, Woodward.
- Ten Hag's had issues with player power (Mason, Ronaldo, Sancho) and the club sale.

Personally I think the biggest consistent issue throughout has been recruitment and the slow rebuild that hampered every single Manager under Woodward. I'm not going to throw all the blame at Woodward, the Managers have to take responsibility as well as do the players. But his broad strategy for the club was horrendous.

 

[Alex99]

No, competitive means don't fold, lose 4-0 and think it's ok. Don't try to turn me into some sort of a nut job that expects us to go to City and beat them by 5 goals.

Even in your selected period, vast majority of those games were 1-goal hard fought wins, not comparable with what Liverpool has done to us in recent years. I mean they literally came to Old Trafford and were 5-0 up after 50 minutes, they beat us 4-0 at Anfield without breaking a sweat and then handed us our worst PL era defeat very recently. Likewise City, they've beaten us 3-0 at OT without even trying and put 6 past us at Etihad. Their win at OT this year was literally their easiest away game of the season so far.

I don't mind it if we lose to them by a goal or two after a close, hard fought game. They are the better teams. The fact we have had 4/5 (I think our 2-0 loss to City at OT, despite relatively low score, was utterly pathetic) utterly embarrassing displays against both of them over the course of slightly more than 24 months is however unacceptable.

People would be absolutely losing their shit if our record was 4 points from a possible 36.

Our recent beatings were worse than the ones we handed out to them, but the fact is that we've been competitive with them plenty of times in recent years, as evidenced by the fact that we've taken points off them on a number of occasions. As you've just proven, it's ignored because the heavy defeats sting and people want revenge.

Our worst performances being worse than theirs doesn't mean we haven't also been competitive in plenty of the other matches.

 

[RedSky]

When will people stop with this shit?

He doesn't negotiate the deals or control how the budget is spent in any meaningful way other than saying which positions are a priority. That's all on other people at the club. It, again, ignores that he shouldn't be picking transfer targets in that manner in the first place.

There's enough to criticise him for (including how ineffective Antony has been, even if caveated) without constantly resorting to blaming him for the club's woefully inadequate transfer structure, when it's feck all to do with him.

He has veto power. If he thinks Antony isn't worth £70/80m then he can simple pull out and ask them to sign someone else. This notion that ETH has no control over the transfers and how we use our transfer budget is lunacy.

 

[Alex99]

that and which players he wants for those positions.

... which he shouldn't be doing and wouldn't be doing if we were a remotely well run club.

You might be the most boring poster on here.

 

[RedSky]

... which he shouldn't be doing and wouldn't be doing if we were a remotely well run club.

You might be the most boring poster on here.

He wanted that responsibility...

 

[Gordon Godot]

He wanted that responsibility...

These posts are tortuous. He wanted control of transfers, that was widely reported. its not a coincidence that 80% of his signings either played for or against him in Holland. Antony is garbage at £50m or £80m, its a complete waste of money either way. The bigger issue is that ETH did (and still does it seems) rate him that highly.

 

[hobbers]

... which he shouldn't be doing and wouldn't be doing if we were a remotely well run club.

You might be the most boring poster on here.

A power which he demanded, and got, and fecked up. Built a hand-picked team that cant even play convincing football against Luton and Sheffield.

Sorry I'll try and be less boring - next time I'll point out that Martinez has been injured so of course we cant land a glove on Fulham at home. And then maybe I'll bang on about how Arsenal gave Arteta time.

 

[Raven]

He's shit, he needs to go. Keeps playing that moronic 4-1-5 formation and that alone should be enough to give him the road.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

He has veto power. If he thinks Antony isn't worth £70/80m then he can simple pull out and ask them to sign someone else. This notion that ETH has no control over the transfers and how we use our transfer budget is lunacy.

As far as I'm aware we don't know the details of his veto and when it applies. For all I know it could be that he is given targets proposed and has vetos on whether they go for the player, not on whether the deal is completed after it has all been agreed.

He doesn't negotiate fees or contracts, that much I think we do know, so I find it hard to hold him responsible for that side of it. If our scouts valued Antony at £25m and the negotiating team went out and agreed a total deal worth in excess of £80m then that's very much on the negotiators.

 

[Sarni]

People would be absolutely losing their shit if our record was 4 points from a possible 36.

Our recent beatings were worse than the ones we handed out to them, but the fact is that we've been competitive with them plenty of times in recent years, as evidenced by the fact that we've taken points off them on a number of occasions. As you've just proven, it's ignored because the heavy defeats sting and people want revenge.

Our worst performances being worse than theirs doesn't mean we haven't also been competitive in plenty of the other matches.

And that is basically the only thing I want from those games.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

He has veto power. If he thinks Antony isn't worth £70/80m then he can simple pull out and ask them to sign someone else. This notion that ETH has no control over the transfers and how we use our transfer budget is lunacy.

He's a coach. Not a director of football. He's not responsible for deciding the market value of a player.

 

[Alex99]

He has veto power. If he thinks Antony isn't worth £70/80m then he can simple pull out and ask them to sign someone else. This notion that ETH has no control over the transfers and how we use our transfer budget is lunacy.

We have no idea if that's how the veto power works, and the only alternative by the time we'd negotiated that fee for Antony was having no right winger outside of Sancho or kids.

Similarly, if he says that Hojlund is too pricey when told of the negotiated price to try and save budget for a new defender, he's risking us resorting to another Weghorst-type loan and still only getting Jonny Evans in.

He wanted that responsibility...

... so the club should have told him to feck off, because he'd literally never had that responsibility before, and moved on to another candidate. Except we're a circus, so we probably didn't have anyone else lined up.

This whole "control" thing isn't necessarily true anyway. It's all from one quote that with the full context can also be interpreted as him not wanting new players just thrusted on him out of nowhere, hence the veto power. This seems the far more reasonable interpretation, but it takes away a stick to beat him with, so people like to parrot that he's some sort of transfer despot.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

They've all dealt with different problems and all had injury problems throughout, it's been a regular issue for far too long.

- LVG had the immediate post Sir Alex expectations and the mess that needed fixing after Moyes. Alongside that he had to deal with Woodward.
- Jose had perhaps the easiest time of it given our expectations were so low. But he still had to deal with Woodward and had problems with player power (Martial, Pogba).
- Ole faced Covid and the insane schedule with a half fit, demoralised squad. Again, Woodward.
- Ten Hag's had issues with player power (Mason, Ronaldo, Sancho) and the club sale.

Personally I think the biggest consistent issue throughout has been recruitment and the slow rebuild that hampered every single Manager under Woodward. I'm not going to throw all the blame at Woodward, the Managers have to take responsibility as well as do the players. But his broad strategy for the club was horrendous.

Dont forget Greenwood and Rashford knocking back Tequilas, two forwards integral to Uniteds plans and wouldnt you know it, a big problem has been scoring goals... Anthonys Sex scandal wasnt ETH fault either and that didnt help regardless of what anybody thinks of the player. the start of the season was knockback and drama, between injuries and high profile crap that couldnt but destabilise things.

Have you looked a the injuries comparison ? Chalk and cheese really , you might aswell say losing one player to injury is the same as losing 5. Have a look at the actual stats here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/ausfallzeiten/verein/985?reldata=GB1&2013 . No manager has had a fraction of the injury issues to such important players aswell.

You really should add "insane schedule with a half fit, demoralised squad" to ETH issues. Last season we played more games then most teams. Klopps squad struggled badly last season (after a similar one we had) when they played only 1 more game then us but they didnt also have a world cup tournament squeezed into the middle of their hectic schedule.

ETH inherited a Woodward built squad, so changes to fix it were always going to take time.

 

[Sarni]

From what I understand the way the veto works is he's given a list of players, handwritten, but with names tweaked somewhat so that it cannot be stolen by any other club, e.g. it will not say Rasmus Hojlund and Mason Mount but something different, like Roman Homlund and Marston Mond, with descriptions of players that resemble their real selves but pretending they play for different clubs in different leagues, e.g. Roman Homlund will be described as a Wolfsburg player, so that another club cannot figure out who he is. He has to then read out loud all the names and scream 'VETO!!!' if he doesn't think that player fits his preferred specifications. Then a bid with a randomly generated fee is submitted by a computer.

 

[AneRu]

talk of attacking a repeated straw man. The problem is Antony was bought for 80m and people insist on pretending ETH wanted him at that fee and RATED him at that fee! That is where the entire x blame him for Antony signing" narrative stems from. The utterly false premise that he is responsible for the 80m price tag and forced the football department to pay it. An argument built of world class idiocy.

Its defending basic common sense to reject the argument. Not ETH.....

To truly believe that the club paid 80m for Antony and ETH didn't know about and didn't ok it is that's beyond any measure of idiocy and genuinely bordering on lunacy. Despite ETH repeatedly saying he has veto power on incoming players people genuinely expect us to believe that his involvement ended at the identity and he wouldn't know of and need to approve the financial aspects, the same financials that would impact his ability to buy more players, it's embicilic!

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Yeah he's acting like we are Bielsa's Leeds where our losses are 5-4 and we win by 3 or 4 every once in a while...

Bielsa is not in that stat.

Vs LvG, Jose, Ole, Moyes I think Ten Hag makes United look a lot more modern with great pressing, high turnovers and with Martinez some out-of-this-world defending. And every time the last few months I think we're gonna lose bigtime on account of lots of injured players, it goes the other way or at least put up a fight.

I prefer big holes in the midfield and actually turn up at the opponents box than sit back in our own box with 8 players behind the ball like Jose often did. I like players attacking with the idea of winning instead of LvG bal, that mostly avoided contact. I also like a coach that plays his style, the 4-2-3-1 no matter what instead of Ole, who changed and changed and changed and nobody knew what he was doing anymore.

I wouldnt mind Bielsa if Ten Hag needs to go, though. If the players thought Ten Hag was too demanding...boy are they gonna be in for a treat(ment) with him.

 

[sparx99]

I'm on board with all your points here, but there's a caveat. At times, one's dislike for a manager can stem from various facets—be it their presence, press conferences, the players they sign, or the statements they make. It's not always solely about the victories, not for everyone.

If I could have a manager who ticks all the boxes for me in those aspects you mentioned, and the results mirror our current sporting achievements, then, in my eyes, the situation could be different. It's just that I'm not fond of the man.

I understand that some supporters are solely focused on winning games, and I completely respect that perspective. However, for me, it goes beyond just winning. I've hardly missed a handful of United games since the early 1990s, and United means much more to me than mere results. I used to relish watching Sir Alex engaging in battles with Arsene or his candid outbursts during press conferences. I admired Mourinho, until I didn't. Yet, he had a captivating personality when expressing himself, bringing smiles and players like Zlatan who provided moments of magic.

EtH's "regime" seems to be built on rules and principles, and nothing more. His persona is more akin to a robot or a general than a football manager, and that's not my cup of tea.

ETH faced similar criticism at Ajax because he’s not from Amsterdam so is considered something akin to a county bumpkin. It’s quite hard to like ETH because his English isn’t great and that limits his expression and therefore charisma.

I do wonder if he’s more friendly in person. The players don’t seem to hate him in the kind of way Mourinho made things toxic so he must be able to apply the rules with some form of positive leadership.

 

[sparx99]

I don’t really get that either. Surely no one expected us to be relegated last year? Even in that horrific 2021-22 season we finished 6th.

There was a couple brief periods in the September or October of recent seasons where I’ve thought we are bad enough to be in real trouble here. Obviously we have enough talent to figure it out enough.

 

[Nogho]

ETH faced similar criticism at Ajax because he’s not from Amsterdam so is considered something akin to a county bumpkin. It’s quite hard to like ETH because his English isn’t great and that limits his expression and therefore charisma.

I do wonder if he’s more friendly in person. The players don’t seem to hate him in the kind of way Mourinho made things toxic so he must be able to apply the rules with some form of positive leadership.

This might be a contributing factor, but it's not the sole issue. As someone who lived in the UK as a foreigner, I understand the challenge of getting your humour across. Most people would give you a strange look when you attempting to say something funny

However, there are numerous examples of managers whose English was or is as challenging as Erik's, yet they still managed to convey emotions effectively from time to time

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

From what I understand the way the veto works is he's given a list of players, handwritten, but with names tweaked somewhat so that it cannot be stolen by any other club, e.g. it will not say Rasmus Hojlund and Mason Mount but something different, like Roman Homlund and Marston Mond, with descriptions of players that resemble their real selves but pretending they play for different clubs in different leagues, e.g. Roman Homlund will be described as a Wolfsburg player, so that another club cannot figure out who he is. He has to then read out loud all the names and scream 'VETO!!!' if he doesn't think that player fits his preferred specifications. Then a bid with a randomly generated fee is submitted by a computer.

I remember this in prov evolution soccer, but arent Wolfsberg referred to as Autostadt ?

 

[Redstain]

They've all dealt with different problems and all had injury problems throughout, it's been a regular issue for far too long.

- LVG had the immediate post Sir Alex expectations and the mess that needed fixing after Moyes. Alongside that he had to deal with Woodward.
- Jose had perhaps the easiest time of it given our expectations were so low. But he still had to deal with Woodward and had problems with player power (Martial, Pogba).
- Ole faced Covid and the insane schedule with a half fit, demoralised squad. Again, Woodward.
- Ten Hag's had issues with player power (Mason, Ronaldo, Sancho) and the club sale.

Personally I think the biggest consistent issue throughout has been recruitment and the slow rebuild that hampered every single Manager under Woodward. I'm not going to throw all the blame at Woodward, the Managers have to take responsibility as well as do the players. But his broad strategy for the club was horrendous.

Those are good points, additionally how much of the lack of rotation last season on top of the excessive demand for the team to press has had an adverse effect on injuries?

People talk like injuries and the managers preparations are mutually exclusive, there has to be correspondence as the injuries aren't fractures but are aggravations like muscle injuries then there are exacerbated injuries such as Martinez.

The off-field issues have certainly been a factor but I think the majority who are anticipating the manager to come of age in a new structure are naïve.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

This might be a contributing factor, but it's not the sole issue. As someone who lived in the UK as a foreigner, I understand the challenge of getting your humour across. Most people would give you a strange look when you attempting to say something funny

However, there are numerous examples of managers whose English was or is as challenging as Erik's, yet they still managed to convey emotions effectively from time to time

Steve McClaren was excellent at speaking English in a dutch accident when in Holland.