Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
VP89 said:
OK kid, make more things up.

You're the one who put the Ole VS ten hag success on the forum in the first place :lol:

You could have just left it when I said "no he didn't" after you tried to argue one was better than the other, but you couldn't resist go on a stupid pointless micro debate and talk nonsense.
Click to expand...

Well you claimed Ole/Jose would do much worse with this team, which is obviously nonsense because Ole clearly did better than this with a weaker team. Can't comment on Jose as his team was different.

Unlike you, I have not actually made up any non-existent games, I just disproved your points about embarrassing cup exits under Ole (which did not happen) and merely pointed out a simple fact that both league seasons were virtually the same (though I'd personally have a far superior GD, more goals scored and a higher place over the extra 1 point, in particular with that 3 games in 4 days thing clearly impacting points tally).

I'm obviously not going to just forgo an opportunity to make you look ridiculous with your ETH love, especially when you make it so easy.
 
Sarni said:
Well you claimed Ole/Jose would do much worse with this team, which is obviously nonsense because Ole clearly did better than this with a weaker team. Can't comment on Jose as his team was different.

Unlike you, I have not actually made up any non-existent games, I just disproved your points about embarrassing cup exits under Ole (which did not happen) and point out that both league seasons were virtually the same (though I'd personally have a far superior GD, more goals scored and a higher place over the extra 1 point).

I'm obviously not going to just forgo an opportunity to make you look ridiculous with your ETH love, especially when you make it so easy.
Click to expand...
Once again, this is bollocks because Ole didn't have a patch on the injuries ten hag did this year. He spent bucket loads over longer terms and still won feck all.

Ole also didn't have youth projects up front. But sure, go ahead and literally make up more utter bollocks.
 
VP89 said:
Once again, this is bollocks because Ole didn't have a patch on the injuries ten hag did this year. He spent bucket loads over longer terms and still won feck all.

Ole also didn't have youth projects up front. But sure, go ahead and literally make up more utter bollocks.
Click to expand...

That was kind of disproved as well but seeing as you are not really one to be interested in facts, not surprised that you forgot about it.

Bucket loads more meaning about 5 million (we already went over it as well).

Also, Greenwood.

At least make it difficult. :lol:
 
Sarni said:
That was kind of disproved as well but seeing as you are not really one to be interested in facts, not surprised that you forgot about it.

Also, Greenwood.

At least make it difficult. :lol:
Click to expand...
Disproved? Mate try not to actually talk utter bollocks. I think @BenitoSTARR or someone else addressed the injury points. Ole didn't have the systemic injuries to key players for the duration ten hag has.

By the way, saying "this was disproved" without actually proving shit doesn't make you smart.
 
VP89 said:
Once again, this is bollocks because Ole didn't have a patch on the injuries ten hag did this year. He spent bucket loads over longer terms and still won feck all.

Ole also didn't have youth projects up front. But sure, go ahead and literally make up more utter bollocks.
Click to expand...
Do you have a source?

Also, Ole had MMM in his first full season.
 
VP89 said:
Disproved? Mate try not to actually talk utter bollocks. I think @BenitoSTARR or someone else addressed the injury points. Ole didn't have the systemic injuries to key players for the duration ten hag has.

By the way, saying "this was disproved" without actually proving shit doesn't make you smart.
Click to expand...

I did go over that, can't be bothered to do it again because you will clearly willingly forget about it. I literally went injury by injury for the start of 19-20 season when you claimed he had no injuries to deal with, and they were quite similar to what we have been facing this season but in different areas of the pitch (like missing Pogba for most of that time).
 
I really wanted him to succeed, wasn't as big of a fan as some here where before he came and during his tenure, but I always want a new MU manager to succeed because that means the team succeeds(duh).

But it just becomes more and more obvious that he's not the man for the job anymore. Awful "style" of play that goes to shit as soon as opposition teams play slowly and possession football(his whole style is win the ball high up the pitch or quickly and quick transition attacks, nothing else). But hes also been way too stubborn with this, not trying to change it because the players he has in the squad do not fit this style of play at all and certainly not the second string that has had to play because of injuries. Yes I know a manager needs to implement a style, but when that style isn't working it's time to try something else.
Also his game management is at times one of the worse I've seen from a MU manager, either makes subs too late, subs on the wrong player or doesn't sub at all. It's so weird.

Really is time to go, but another thing, even though he failed does not mean that alot of the players should stay either. There's alot of players that should leave with him(not just Antony, Maguire, Eriksen and Casemiro).

Garnacho, Lisandro, Onana, Højlund, Mainoo and maybe Dalot are the only players that should stay and be build around. Yes Bruno and Rashford should probably be sold, who knows maybe a new manager can get a different tune out of them(Bruno really doesn't fit this style od play ETH wants to play, so maybe better under different manager) and Rashford seem to have checked out mentally from football. But I wouldn't be against them leaving either.
 
Last edited:
VP89 said:
By the way, saying "this was disproved" without actually proving shit doesn't make you smart.
Click to expand...

Well, that's because you are not really bothered by real world. You are so invested in Ten Hag that it's pointless debating with you, that's why I don't even really do that. I can't really go too deeply into a debate over whether 1 extra league point is worth so much because you are clearly going to think it is when it works in ETH's favor, similar as any area in which Ole did better (like European football, or big games, or goal difference, or goals scored) is going to quickly become irrelevant to you and you will find 1,000 reasons why ETH could not perform as well in that aspect. It is not fun to discuss these things because your bias is worthy of a Trump fanatic, however it is pretty fun to pick the obvious places where you are so far off and point them out because you will inevitably just drag yourself into a corner and make even more ridiculous points about something that was already ridiculous enough when it was said first.
 
Sarni said:
Well you claimed Ole/Jose would do much worse with this team, which is obviously nonsense because Ole clearly did better than this with a weaker team. Can't comment on Jose as his team was different.

Unlike you, I have not actually made up any non-existent games, I just disproved your points about embarrassing cup exits under Ole (which did not happen) and merely pointed out a simple fact that both league seasons were virtually the same (though I'd personally have a far superior GD, more goals scored and a higher place over the extra 1 point, in particular with that 3 games in 4 days thing clearly impacting points tally).

I'm obviously not going to just forgo an opportunity to make you look ridiculous with your ETH love, especially when you make it so easy.
Click to expand...
It still amazes me, particularly watching the fallout from the last couple of seasons, that people actively try and make out Ole's time here was positive. It has been the single most damaging stint of club management (even more so than Mou) in our history. He allowed the worst possible culture to thrive, a culture which ETH (regardless of if you rate him or not) has had to take multiple seasons to try and deal with. Say whatever you want about ETH on the pitch - this season it has not been good enough - but at least off it, he is clearly trying to run the club in a professional manner. Look at the fruit of Ole's approach, entitled, lazy players, fat contracts, old has-beens and moths in the trophy cabinet.

'Oh but he got second place'....wow, what a phenomenal achievement, he must be alone in the post SF managers in that monumental league finish..oh no wait, the manager right before him did it as well and with more points.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yes I think both would do better right now, at minimum both would make us less fragile at the back
Click to expand...
United’s squad is comfortably better than most teams in the league. And yet only Sheffield United have conceded more shots against them.

Where has this idea come from that no Manager alive could possibly set up a midfield that doesn’t get overrun every single game with the talent United have available?

I’m an Arsenal fan, yet somehow I seem to believe in United more than some of its own supporters. It’s maddening. Snap out of it people - you are terribly coached.
 
Sarni said:
I did go over that, can't be bothered to do it again because you will clearly willingly forget about it. I literally went injury by injury for the start of 19-20 season when you claimed he had no injuries to deal with, and they were quite similar to what we have been facing this season but in different areas of the pitch (like missing Pogba for most of that time).
Click to expand...
Again, I have no interest in digging into it either when another poster already did. I know for a fact Ole wasn't missing his best CB, whilst losing others to surgery / muscle problems, lose his first choice LB, his back up LB, and that back ups back up for the whole season. I also know that Ole had some injuries to Matic and Pogba just like Ten Hag did with Eriksen and Casemiro. Except ten hag also had to juggle with unprofessional players bought by Ole (Sancho) and couldn't rely on Martial after Ole broke him either.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
It still amazes me, particularly watching the fallout from the last couple of seasons, that people actively try and make out Ole's time here was positive. It has been the single most damaging stint of club management (even more so than Mou) in our history. He allowed the worst possible culture to thrive, a culture which ETH (regardless of if you rate him or not) has had to take multiple seasons to try and deal with. Say whatever you want about ETH on the pitch - this season it has not been good enough - but at least off it, he is clearly trying to run the club in a professional manner. Look at the fruit of Ole's approach, entitled, lazy players, fat contracts, old has-beens and moths in the trophy cabinet.

'Oh but he got second place'....wow, what a phenomenal achievement, he must be alone in the post SF managers in that monumental league finish..oh no wait, the manager right before him did it as well and with more points.
Click to expand...
It's hilarious how Ten Hag gets a pass for not having a proper structure but Ole was responsible for contracts and recruitment all by himself.
 
Sarni said:
Well, that's because you are not really bothered by real world. You are so invested in Ten Hag that it's pointless debating with you, that's why I don't even really do that. I can't really go too deeply into a debate over whether 1 extra league point is worth so much because you are clearly going to think it is when it works in ETH's favor, similar as any area in which Ole did better (like European football, or big games, or goal difference, or goals scored) is going to quickly become irrelevant to you and you will find 1,000 reasons why ETH could not perform as well in that aspect. It is not fun to discuss these things because your bias is worthy of a Trump fanatic, however it is pretty fun to pick the obvious places where you are so far off and point them out because you will inevitably just drag yourself into a corner and make even more ridiculous points about something that was already ridiculous enough when it was said first.
Click to expand...
Again you've gone on some personal rant about how entrenched I am with ten hag (I've said here that it's fair to sack if he can't turn it around, by the way) and completely moved goalposts and outright made shit up.

You think you're picking flaws but you're actually just arguing with yourself. I'm not the one bringing those seasons into comparison - you were. I just said Ole wasn't better in his achievement. You seemed to have a whinge about that. If anything you are so entrenched on your apparent advocacy of Ole over ten hag you have forgotten what you're actually debating.

And you have the cheek to claim Ole had the same level of injury issues as ten hag has this year. fecking hell :lol:
 
Mike Smalling said:
The transfers under ETH has likely set us back years in terms of building a competitive squad. Cssemiro was short sighted, Antony a complete miss, Mount a misfit, Malacia not good enough. Only Højlund is looking good for the longterm squad.

ETH should consider himself lucky that Garnacho and Mainoo have come through - imagine if we didn’t have them.
Click to expand...

Yeah this Dutch bluffer will moan about no players to cover injuries. Do you know why Erik because you pissed away £140m on Mount and your beloved Brazilian fidget spinner alone
 
VP89 said:
Again you've gone on some personal rant about how entrenched I am with ten hag (I've said here that it's fair to sack if he can't turn it around, by the way) and completely moved goalposts and outright made shit up.

You think you're picking flaws but you're actually just arguing with yourself. I'm not the one bringing those seasons into comparison - you were. I just said Ole wasn't better in his achievement. You seemed to have a whinge about that. If anything you are so entrenched on your apparent advocacy of Ole over ten hag you have forgotten what you're actually debating.

And you have the cheek to claim Ole had the same level of injury issues as ten hag has this year. fecking hell :lol:
Click to expand...

I am not particularly fond of Ole’s time here. He was a decent interim that overstayed his welcome. It would be quite ridiculous for me to rate him very highly when I don’t rate ETH highly and Ole was only slightly better than him if at all.
 
Sarni said:
I am not particularly fond of Ole’s time here. He was a decent interim that overstayed his welcome. It would be quite ridiculous for me to rate him very highly when I don’t rate ETH highly and Ole was only slightly better than him if at all.
Click to expand...
But you have no problem spouting nonsense like claiming Ole had injuries comparable to Ten Hag this season? Sure thing mate.
 
VP89 said:
But you have no problem spouting nonsense like claiming Ole had injuries comparable to Ten Hag this season? Sure thing mate.
Click to expand...
He had serious injury issues that he had to manage, Pogba being the main one which we eventually addressed buying Bruno. Not similar in volume to this season in defense, but spread across the field (we have been quite lucky with injuries among our offense this year for example). Less overall in volume but still impactful.

I don’t think our main issues are purely injury driven.
 
Hate seeing some bring our past managers, Ole this Ole that, Jose this Jose that. Who cares if Ole is better than Eth or vice versa, truth is Ole failed just like Jose failed and good chance ETH also fails.
 
Rossa said:
I think what I hate the most is when Liverpool played Chelsea yesterday, they were barely hanging by the ropes at the end of the second half - they should have lost. Then comes extra time, and they go all out, guns blazing and are the much better team. That ability to change the morale of the team and their belief in winning is quite rare. Ferguson had it, Klopp has it and Guardiola has it - heck, Solskjær ac


You are again only responding using stats as if that is the whole truth. It is only part of it.

With Klopp, Guardiola and Arteta, it was obvious from the get-go where they wanted to go, what brand of football they wanted to play etc.

ETH's football is terrible. There is almost no joy in watching United play. The wins we have are mostly one goal differences, and even in matches where we win comfortably in terms of goals, such as Everton, the results mask a very uneven match. Everton could easily have scored three goals that match if not for terrible finishing - so we got lucky, even against Everton... Our record against the top teams is atrocious - shouldn't you expand on that in your analysis?

Then we have signings - ETH has repeatedly said he wants control over signings - even with Ratfliffe he insists on having control. I am sure that he is aware of the cost of players before putting pen to paper, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to him that they spunked 80m on Antony - still he sanctioned it. It depleted the war chest. He signed Mount for 60m - I cannot believe that he is unaware how that would affect the rest of his spending. Again, ETH sanctions signings. He has spent a lot of money - it's just not wisely spent apart from Martinez and hopefully Højlund.
Click to expand...

Yep this is exact reason I have little sympathy for not having the squad to cope with injuries, throw Onana in there as well and it comes to around £200m. That money would have got a backup LCB,LB, proper RW and Hojlund backup easily
 
Daydreamer said:
United’s squad is comfortably better than most teams in the league. And yet only Sheffield United have conceded more shots against them.

Where has this idea come from that no Manager alive could possibly set up a midfield that doesn’t get overrun every single game with the talent United have available?

I’m an Arsenal fan, yet somehow I seem to believe in United more than some of its own supporters. It’s maddening. Snap out of it people - you are terribly coached.
Click to expand...


I have 0 idea but my guess is that people are so disillusioned by the fact that every manager post Fergie has failed that many believe it’s simply impossible to succeed anyways up until the new change in regime so there’s no point in evaluating Ten Hag anyways until we see him under the new structure.

Obviously you and I are on the same page, as regardless of the structure or transfers etc. a manager should be able to look at how open we are, identify it as a problem, and then set off trying to remedy the situation. Instead it seems he’s fine with the endless shots/chances we concede and worse actively encourages that style.
 
Frosty said:
Says loads about our recruitment and the mentality of the players we have signed. Ineos either need to say he is here next year or state he is gone in May and if players don't look arsed in the meantime they will get shipped out.
Click to expand...

Hopefully he is gone end of the season,however wouldn't take any notice of anyone from toxic stand tweeting anything given who is behind that channel.
 
Frosty said:
This will be the first time for 11 years we actually have a semblance of a footballing structure.
Click to expand...
And we can have a semblance of a footballing structure and a manager who looks like he knows his onions. Imagine it.
 
Frosty said:
Says loads about our recruitment and the mentality of the players we have signed. Ineos either need to say he is here next year or state he is gone in May and if players don't look arsed in the meantime they will get shipped out.
Click to expand...

If you're buying into "players are not motivated" - I don't know what to tell you. That's just an easy out for journos. The proverbial "ol reliable". I mean, it can't be "well, we won 5 on the trot before Fulham, so it shows improvement" and then "oh players are not arsed".

The players are clearly trying, otherwise we wouldn't have frauded our way to wins against Wolves, Villa and Luton. If they weren't arsed we would have lost those games. Our set-up is just shambolic. Every game is a basketball game with us, and the manager is seemingly happy with it.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I have 0 idea but my guess is that people are so disillusioned by the fact that every manager post Fergie has failed that many believe it’s simply impossible to succeed anyways up until the new change in regime so there’s no point in evaluating Ten Hag anyways until we see him under the new structure.

Obviously you and I are on the same page, as regardless of the structure or transfers etc. a manager should be able to look at how open we are, identify it as a problem, and then set off trying to remedy the situation. Instead it seems he’s fine with the endless shots/chances we concede and worse actively encourages that style.
Click to expand...
Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole have won a grand total of 2 x Europa Conference League trophies since leaving United. Combined.

Do United need to overhaul their entire footballing operation? Of course. But the last five Managers you’ve hired were either past their best, or not good enough to start with.

Every Manager failing so far is evidence that things need to change above the Manager. I don’t see a single person arguing against that. But it’s an obvious logical fallacy to assume that means there are no Managers anywhere on Earth that could do a better job. Managers come to Old Trafford every other week with weaker squads and create a myriad of chances. No matter how many injuries United have, their starting lineup and subs are far superior to Luton’s.

I never thought I’d miss the days of United fans having a (justified) sense of arrogance about their team. This thread is actually a little depressing.
 
Daydreamer said:
Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole have won a grand total of 2 x Europa Conference League trophies since leaving United. Combined.

Do United need to overhaul their entire footballing operation? Of course. But the last five Managers you’ve hired were either past their best, or not good enough to start with.

Every Manager failing so far is evidence that things need to change above the Manager. I don’t see a single person arguing against that. But it’s an obvious logical fallacy to assume that means there are no Managers anywhere on Earth that could do a better job. Managers come to Old Trafford every other week with weaker squads and create a myriad of chances. No matter how many injuries United have, their starting lineup and subs are far superior to Luton’s.

I never thought I’d miss the days of United fans having a (justified) sense of arrogance about their team. This thread is actually a little depressing.
Click to expand...
It's sad, isn't it? Our brains have whittled to mush.
 
croadyman said:
Hopefully he is gone end of the season,however wouldn't take any notice of anyone from toxic stand tweeting anything given who is behind that channel.
Click to expand...
DWelbz19 said:
And we can have a semblance of a footballing structure and a manager who looks like he knows his onions. Imagine it.
Click to expand...
TsuWave said:
If you're buying into "players are not motivated" - I don't know what to tell you. That's just an easy out for journos. The proverbial "ol reliable". I mean, it can't be "well, we won 5 on the trot before Fulham, so it shows improvement" and then "oh players are not arsed".

The players are clearly trying, otherwise we wouldn't have frauded our way to wins against Wolves, Villa and Luton. If they weren't arsed we would have lost those games. Our set-up is just shambolic. Every game is a basketball game with us, and the manager is seemingly happy with it.
Click to expand...

Full disclosure, I was very strongly against ETH being dismissed earlier in the season, because the Glazers have shown they do not know how to run a football club for anything but profit, and I could see a new manager being given leeway to build their own squad and repeat the mistakes of the past, Honestly, now, even early on with Ineos, I have faith we actually will start being run properly. If ETH is dismissed, we will get player recruitment done properly, we will have a coach appointed as a coach, and it will become much less of a big turnover to replace a failing coach in the future.

No one wants a manager to fail. But I actually trust the judgment of the football side of the club more now, so I am very sanguine if the decision is made to part ways.
 
Injuries or not, hes been here long enough to see that his philosophy/ideals arent going to be successful in this league. It happens, we just need to move on from him. Even when we have most of our players available and are playing "well" we still look way too open and beatable. Can hardly point to games that we win and say that we dominated that game and locked it down. Whatever his midfield strategy is, it is just game after game of getting dominated in there. No shame in him not being the right choice for this league, just like some players just dont do well in the premier league. Doesnt mean they are trash, just perhaps better suited for a different league.
 
crossy1686 said:
Watching us and people thinking “this needs more time” is what’s making us miserable. If you don’t pull the plug when something is a ‘disaster’ then when do you?

The ships sinking lads. Just give it more time though, when we’re sat on the bottom of the ocean we’ll reevaluate if the captain should be fired or not.
Click to expand...

If anything, we've given too many post-Fergie managers too much time, when it was clear that they wouldn't ever have us seriously challenging.

But tbh, standards have been on the floor for years when you have fans celebrating things like 2nd place and one penalty kick away from winning the EL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.