Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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So I don't disagree with any sentiment that we look far too open and casually get battered in possession and sometimes chances for periods of games. I believe this to be becsuse of us not having squad players capable of executing a style which in theory, should be quite exciting.

I believe that this is massively because we are very reliant on key players being available and they simply aren't. I also think this is easily the worst squad we've had post Ferguson, with the manager obligated to rely on kids up top, and having a musical chair situation at CB and LB pretty much all season.

Yes, he's made mistakes in his game management, and also in the market. But they are overweighted in criticism because 1) any manager needs room to grow, 2) he has a shit squad to work with and 3) he has a shit structure that he's working under.
This subject seems to be emotive for those who are still in the middle of it. My ride from euphoria at his employment and espousing about the new era we should be entering through the seven layers of despair to being wholly extricated and accepting that he is not the guy, is all documented in this very thread. Ironically, ten Hag is the only post-Fergie appointment I have been fully behind, and perhaps more ironically, I’ve had more to say in denigration for said manager than the others because expectations of him to what he has done are so disappointingly disparate.

There isn’t a single counterpoint that stands up to scrutiny with regards to him - even the slightest deep dive and most points put forward can be used against him. But I’m not Clouseau and I’m not really interested in sticking knives in, but commenting on ongoing issues that never resolve, even with extended prep time, should be the crux of every discussion regarding the tenure. Why? Because by them, and via these most fortunate circumstances, the manager still has a window of opportunity to turn around a ship he’s continually crashed into the proverbial iceberg this season with his litany of errors and plain obstinacy.

You have made the point about the maladies of this season, seemingly not realising that sets ten Hag up for a fall. It is he that did the about face and 180’d his midfield scheme and tactics; it is he who badly navigated preseason, both in terms of prep and readiness for the campaign; it is he who has taken us in a direction that regressed the team and about-faced on the work done in his first season. The buck for what we see comes down to an unworkable system outside of absolute optimisation. It doesn’t matter what it could look like if that time never comes, for whatever reason it does not come; all good managers work with what they have, and more importantly, they optimise it. You don’t trudge through treacle trying to make something into what it is not; you go around that treacle as best you can. Last season, our midfield got by, it wasn’t great, and the sliding scale started once Eriksen’s tank depleted and he could barely complete 60 minutes (after a really sterling start to the season). Casemiro began a slide of his own he didn’t truly recover from and wasn’t great when he got back into midfield post-suspension, but was still serviceable.

What backed the midfield was keeping its positional integrity. Even if it wasn’t firing offensively or defensively as it had done, there was still a shape to it and a challenge issued for opposing teams to get through. It was far from water tight, but that could clearly be put to the personnel - there was no stream of posts bemoaning chasms in midfield or fundamental lack of shape. This season? From the start of preseason, alarm bells were sounded - and it is fully documented - that never waned and, to this day are apparent. The suicidal setup, of ten Hag’s devising, has been a talking point all season. It’s talked about less now because it’s a dull, exhausting conversation most no longer care to entertain anymore. At base ends, it all comes down to how we have been set up to play - a way of playing opposing managers and players are coming out in droves after playing us stating how easy or comprehensively sussed it was, crap teams at that. Bournemouth, Fulham, Copenhagen and so on and so forth, all talking blueprints against us.

You’ve mentioned managers needing time to grow, but what tends to happen for this to be viable is they themselves showing signs of growth, improvement, development and learning from their mistakes. Ten Hag has undone a tonne of his own work and has shown no development or growth when it comes to controlling and containing inferior sides. Sides where our squad, even depleted and injured is a treasure trove of riches by comparison. We have wins under our belt but very few performances anyone wants to put the house on. If we did have those performances, ten Hag would be willed to succeed by many who have since withdrawn support because they see nothing to back, or any reason to back it over someone else who can try and make us greater than the sum of our parts (as we should be). We’re constantly having epic back and forth with really poor sides; there are so many things to pick apart if the interest in breaking down the minutiae was there. My previous post isn’t about any particular manager, rather what they brought to the table. Not one of them was the complete package and every single one of them could be broken down to very distinct pros and cons. I would be genuinely interested in hearing what pros and cons you or anyone else have for ten Hag and what he has done this season, or why, from what you see, things have grounds to become what most us dreamed they would when he first got here. What is it you are backing or what carries that is not based around faith and hope for a different future?

And regarding this squad. Unless it’s ever set up right, how are we supposed to know what it is or is not capable of? Setting up a team to fail and constantly be knee deep in swill gives us next to no insight on what could be.
 
What on earth are you on about. Firstly he didn't, and secondly it wasn't the same team.

No, it was a weaker team with which he finished 2nd on 74 points in 2020-21.
 
Becoming more risky for INEOS to keep him rather than sack him at he end of the season , if they stick with him and we have anther season of this people will rightly question if they know what are doing as bringing in anew manager along with the reset looks a no brainer right now.

The good will towards them currently will quickly disappear if the dross we are being served up continues into next season.

This works both ways though, what if INEOS bring in a new manager and we end up mid table and ETH goes somewhere and wins that league and reaches final in Europe?

Anyway, end of last season I was hopeful but the longer this season goes on the more I think maybe a change is needed but I do think there is a collective responsibility here that includes the players. Seems to me we have flashes of what could be the confidence is so easily shattered as soon as something goes wrong
 
This works both ways though, what if INEOS bring in a new manager and we end up mid table and ETH goes somewhere and wins that league and reaches final in Europe?

Anyway, end of last season I was hopeful but the longer this season goes on the more I think maybe a change is needed but I donthink there is a collective responsibility here that includes the players. Seems to me we have flashes of what could be the confidence is so easily shattered as soon as something goes wrong

Then we fire that new manager and try with someone else. What ETH does after he leaves us is irrelevant.
 
No, it was a weaker team with which he finished 2nd on 74 points in 2020-21.
It wasn't a weaker team, and Ten Hag got more points, and a cup in his first year, spending less at that point in time.
 
It wasn't a weaker team, and Ten Hag got more points, and a cup in his first year, spending less at that point in time.
Which key players from that team have we lost? It was a much weaker team.

We went over last season vs 2020-21 comparison before, it wasn't really a better season. A whole 1 point more largely due to the fact we had to prepare for EL final that year, and had like 6 games in 3 days in the league at the end of that season to accommodate COVID rescheduled fixtures, and the League Cup doesn't dramatically change that outlook either as it's a second rate trophy we largely won because of incredibly easy draw.
 
This works both ways though, what if INEOS bring in a new manager and we end up mid table and ETH goes somewhere and wins that league and reaches final in Europe?
Then be happy for him that he found a club where things do click for him and congratulate him. And that's it.

Sometimes things just don't work out and that isn't the end of the world. Be it players, manager, whoever.
 
Which key players from that team have we lost?

We went over last season vs 2020-21 comparison before, it wasn't really a better season. A whole 1 point more largely due to the fact we had to prepare for EL final that year, and had like 6 games in 3 days in the league at the end of that season to accommodate COVID rescheduled fixtures, and the League Cup doesn't dramatically change that outlook either as it's a second rate trophy we largely won because of incredibly easy draw.
Make a new thread over it. Generally speaking though if you want to take 2nd with 74 pts and no cup over 3rd with 75pts and a cup, there's something wrong with you
 
Make a new thread over it. Generally speaking though if you want to take 2nd with 74 pts and no cup over 3rd with 75pts and a cup, there's something wrong with you

The 1 point difference is meaningless. Worth bearing in mind that whilst we got 1 point less, we had to play 3 games in 4 days (Villa on 9 May, Leicester on 11 May and Liverpool on 13 May) towards the end of season and also had top 4 locked down much earlier meaning we were playing weakened teams for several weeks at the end of season. League performance was clearly better in 2020-21 than last year overall - better goal difference, more goals scored, fewer defeats, higher place, no embarrassments other than 6-1 to Spurs at OT.

Ole was not lucky enough to have the easiest draw possible in the League Cup (knocked out by City in semifinal), but on the other hand was able to get us much further in Europe, again it's a toss up between which one is more impressive. I enjoyed that Europa League run a lot, that Roma semifinal was our best European performance since Fergie I think.

Either way, your claim was Ole would not be able to do anything with this team, I merely pointed out he did far better with virtually the same squad minus all ETH signings.

You get so touchy when someone points out the obvious fact that ETH has not been a better manager for us than Ole. :lol:
 
The 1 point difference is meaningless. Worth bearing in mind that whilst we got 1 point less, we had to play 3 games in 4 days (Villa on 9 May, Leicester on 11 May and Liverpool on 13 May) towards the end of season and also had top 4 locked down much earlier meaning we were playing weakened teams for several weeks at the end of season. League performance was better in 2020-21 than last year overall - better goal difference, more goals scored, fewer defeats, higher place, no embarrassments other than 6-1 to Spurs at OT.

Ole was not lucky enough to have the easiest draw possible in the League Cup (knocked out by City in semifinal), but on the other hand was able to get us much further in Europe, again it's a toss up between which one is more impressive. I enjoyed that Europa League run a lot, that Roma semifinal was our best European performance since Fergie I think.

Either way, your claim was Ole would not be able to do anything with this team, I merely pointed out he did far better with virtually the same squad minus all ETH signings.
I've addressed this bullshit. You only have a case for easy runs if Ole didn't have form for fecking up cup runs against easier opponents, which he did.

As I said, 75pts and a cup beats 74pts and feck all.
 
I've addressed this bullshit. You only have a case for easy runs if Ole didn't have form for fecking up cup runs against easier opponents, which he did.

As I said, 75pts and a cup beats 74pts and feck all.

Ole never had such an easy cup run, which me and other posters have proven to you as well. Whenever we were knocked out, it was by teams considerably better than the ones we faced in League Cup last year until the final (going out to any of those teams would have been a massive embarrassment, I mean look at that run :lol:).

Your love affair with League Cup only exists because of your obsession with ten Hag. It's a second rate competition which top teams only start caring about when they make it into semifinals. You are like the deluded Moyes fans at the beginning who were giving him acclaim for winning Community Shield.
 
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I've addressed this bullshit. You only have a case for easy runs if Ole didn't have form for fecking up cup runs against easier opponents, which he did.

As I said, 75pts and a cup beats 74pts and feck all.
"Cup"
 
Then we fire that new manager and try with someone else. What ETH does after he leaves us is irrelevant.
Maybe but questions will need to be asked. We keep employing these managers that have won stuff before us and if they win stuff after us then that tells you the problem is somewhere els. Ratcliffe has already mentioned that our previous managers haven’t been successful and that’s because of the type of environment they’ve been working in. We’ve got troubled players and until we get rid of the bad egos in the dressing room, I don’t think any manager will succeed.
 
It's really quite easy.

My number one expectation of this manager was the beginnings of a better, proactive, attacking football, befitting of the stature of an elite club, even if we finished 5th this season. Instead, I'm watching the worst football I have ever laid eyes on and being clapped by fodder. And we are not doing better than under Ole.

Sack. Simple as.
 
Maybe but questions will need to be asked. We keep employing these managers that have won stuff before us and if they win stuff after us then that tells you the problem is somewhere els. Ratcliffe has already mentioned that our previous managers haven’t been successful and that’s because of the type of environment they’ve been working in. We’ve got troubled players and until we get rid of the bad egos in the dressing room, I don’t think any manager will succeed.

None of the managers that we appointed have shown to be good enough for this level after they left us. We've just appointed wrong managers.
 
Is there any site which presents in a graphical way points collected over time? I feel like Casemiro&Rashford purple patch until the Carabao Cup is still keeping ETH afloat in terms of points per game etc.
His results in the last year is a worry, the football we play is the biggest no-go for me.
 
None of the managers that we appointed have shown to be good enough for this level after they left us. We've just appointed wrong managers.
Mourinhos won the league with Chelsea and won Champions leagues. LVG was a rated coach and I still see a lot of our fans wishing he got more time here… even Rooney said he was the most tactical manager he’s worked with. The only 2 that wasn’t good enough and shouldn’t have got the job was Moyes and Solskjær.
 
Mourinhos won the league with Chelsea and won Champions leagues. LVG was a rated coach and I still see a lot of our fans wishing he got more time here… even Rooney said he was the most tactical manager he’s worked with. The only 2 that wasn’t good enough and shouldn’t have got the job was Moyes and Solskjær.
Yeah before he joined us. Though both Mourinho and LVG did quite well with us for a period of time.
 
Ole never had such an easy cup run, which me and other posters have proven to you as well. Whenever we were knocked out, it was by teams considerably better than the ones we faced in League Cup last year until the final (going out to any of those teams would have been a massive embarrassment, I mean look at that run :lol:).

Your love affair with League Cup only exists because of your obsession with ten Hag. It's a second rate competition which top teams only start caring about when they make it into semifinals. You are like the deluded Moyes fans at the beginning who were giving him acclaim for winning Community Shield.
Ole got dumped out by Leicester and Wolves in cups. Your premise for arguing Ten Hag having favourable runs (vs Brighton and Newcastle in the semi and final, which isn't easy), only holds true if you reckon Ole can take them too.

Ole had form for embarrassing cup exits too, so your point is just nonsense.

Try better next time.
 
Ole got dumped out by Leicester and Wolves in cups. Your premise for arguing Ten Hag having favourable runs (vs Brighton and Newcastle in the semi and final, which isn't easy), only holds true if you reckon Ole can take them too.

Ole had form for embarrassing cup exits too, so your point is just nonsense.

Try better next time.
Both of whom finished in top half of the table those seasons, and were very good teams. Certainly better than anyone we faced in League Cup run last year until the final - which was our only semi-difficult game of the competition. We were also lucky enough to catch Newcastle their during their bad run (1 win in the last 8 games) but at least we finally had to play a decent team.

As for the bolded, it depends on your definition of embarrassing. The only teams we went out to were PSG, Leipzig in CL (much better than who we were defeated by in CL this year), and in cups Wolves, Leicester (both covered already), Chelsea and City (twice). None of these defeats were embarrassing for me. Disappointing, yes, but embarrassing, not really. Embarrassing is finishing with 4 points in a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray, embarrassing is the start to 2021-22 season, losing away from home to a top 6 side in FA Cup is merely disappointing.

You are so amazing at beating yourself with your own arguments, this I have to give to you. Keep them coming, it's a joy. :lol:
 
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Sir Jim seems to be going about things the right way, he is sorting the Football hierarchy of the club first, then will let them decide on who stays and who goes in terms of the team coaching/ management and playing staff.

This will not be palatable for many United fans, because it will take even more time, many fans want him to wave a magic wand (or wallet) and buy the way forward in terms of playing staff, not realising that Manchester United no longer has 'the pull' it once was for the top notcher's, especially the younger players.

It's not going to happen and I can almost hear the chants in a couple of years "stand up if you hate Sir Jim".
I think ETH and probably most of the (senior) players recognise this, they perhaps already think Sir Jim has 'marked their card' in his mind, but will leave it up to the new senior management triumvirate to perform the 'night of the long-knives' requirements.
They all (including ETH) know they are safe... for now anyway, and hence we will hobble-along to the end of the season.
 
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Both of whom finished in top half of the table those seasons, and were very good teams. Certainly better than anyone we faced in League Cup run last year until the final - which was our only semi-difficult game of the competition. We were also lucky enough to catch Newcastle their during their bad run (1 win in the last 8 games) but at least we finally had to play a decent team.

As for the bolded, again you are making things up. The only teams we went out to were PSG, Leipzig in CL (much better than who we were defeated by in CL this year), and in cups Wolves, Leicester (both covered already), Chelsea and City (twice). None of these defeats were embarrassing. Disappointing, yes, but embarrassing, not really. Embarrassing is finishing with 4 points in a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray, losing away from home to a top 6 side in FA Cup is merely disappointing.

You are so amazing at beating yourself with your own arguments, this I have to give to you. Keep them coming, it's a joy. :lol:
What on earth are you on about? You suggest it's OK to lose to Wolves and Leicester because they're top half teams.
But ten hag had an easy run facing and beating Brighton and Newcastle, ranked 6th and 4th at the end of last season. And Ole would have feasibly beaten them, even though he choked to Wolves and Leicester? In fact you say wolves and Leicester were harder outfits to face than Brighton and Newcastle :lol:

Are you broken? Take a rest.
 
Ole got dumped out by Leicester and Wolves in cups. Your premise for arguing Ten Hag having favourable runs (vs Brighton and Newcastle in the semi and final, which isn't easy), only holds true if you reckon Ole can take them too.

Ole had form for embarrassing cup exits too, so your point is just nonsense.

Try better next time.

Brighton was the FA cup. Semi final was against Nottingham Forest.
 
Yeah before he joined us. Though both Mourinho and LVG did quite well with us for a period of time.
To be fair everyone except Moyes had a good spell with us. It’s always the case though, new managers have like an honeymoon period before we go back to being shite.
 
This subject seems to be emotive for those who are still in the middle of it. My ride from euphoria at his employment and espousing about the new era we should be entering through the seven layers of despair to being wholly extricated and accepting that he is not the guy, is all documented in this very thread. Ironically, ten Hag is the only post-Fergie appointment I have been fully behind, and perhaps more ironically, I’ve had more to say in denigration for said manager than the others because expectations of him to what he has done are so disappointingly disparate.

There isn’t a single counterpoint that stands up to scrutiny with regards to him - even the slightest deep dive and most points put forward can be used against him. But I’m not Clouseau and I’m not really interested in sticking knives in, but commenting on ongoing issues that never resolve, even with extended prep time, should be the crux of every discussion regarding the tenure. Why? Because by them, and via these most fortunate circumstances, the manager still has a window of opportunity to turn around a ship he’s continually crashed into the proverbial iceberg this season with his litany of errors and plain obstinacy.

You have made the point about the maladies of this season, seemingly not realising that sets ten Hag up for a fall. It is he that did the about face and 180’d his midfield scheme and tactics; it is he who badly navigated preseason, both in terms of prep and readiness for the campaign; it is he who has taken us in a direction that regressed the team and about-faced on the work done in his first season. The buck for what we see comes down to an unworkable system outside of absolute optimisation. It doesn’t matter what it could look like if that time never comes, for whatever reason it does not come; all good managers work with what they have, and more importantly, they optimise it. You don’t trudge through treacle trying to make something into what it is not; you go around that treacle as best you can. Last season, our midfield got by, it wasn’t great, and the sliding scale started once Eriksen’s tank depleted and he could barely complete 60 minutes (after a really sterling start to the season). Casemiro began a slide of his own he didn’t truly recover from and wasn’t great when he got back into midfield post-suspension, but was still serviceable.

What backed the midfield was keeping its positional integrity. Even if it wasn’t firing offensively or defensively as it had done, there was still a shape to it and a challenge issued for opposing teams to get through. It was far from water tight, but that could clearly be put to the personnel - there was no stream of posts bemoaning chasms in midfield or fundamental lack of shape. This season? From the start of preseason, alarm bells were sounded - and it is fully documented - that never waned and, to this day are apparent. The suicidal setup, of ten Hag’s devising, has been a talking point all season. It’s talked about less now because it’s a dull, exhausting conversation most no longer care to entertain anymore. At base ends, it all comes down to how we have been set up to play - a way of playing opposing managers and players are coming out in droves after playing us stating how easy or comprehensively sussed it was, crap teams at that. Bournemouth, Fulham, Copenhagen and so on and so forth, all talking blueprints against us.

You’ve mentioned managers needing time to grow, but what tends to happen for this to be viable is they themselves showing signs of growth, improvement, development and learning from their mistakes. Ten Hag has undone a tonne of his own work and has shown no development or growth when it comes to controlling and containing inferior sides. Sides where our squad, even depleted and injured is a treasure trove of riches by comparison. We have wins under our belt but very few performances anyone wants to put the house on. If we did have those performances, ten Hag would be willed to succeed by many who have since withdrawn support because they see nothing to back, or any reason to back it over someone else who can try and make us greater than the sum of our parts (as we should be). We’re constantly having epic back and forth with really poor sides; there are so many things to pick apart if the interest in breaking down the minutiae was there. My previous post isn’t about any particular manager, rather what they brought to the table. Not one of them was the complete package and every single one of them could be broken down to very distinct pros and cons. I would be genuinely interested in hearing what pros and cons you or anyone else have for ten Hag and what he has done this season, or why, from what you see, things have grounds to become what most us dreamed they would when he first got here. What is it you are backing or what carries that is not based around faith and hope for a different future?

And regarding this squad. Unless it’s ever set up right, how are we supposed to know what it is or is not capable of? Setting up a team to fail and constantly be knee deep in swill gives us next to no insight on what could be.

Wish there was some way for this to be pinned, because it essentially perfectly echoes mine (and I assume majority of other’s that are out on ETH) feelings about how ETH has lost our faith. Right down to being thrilled when he was appointed and slowly being let down to the point where we are now.
 
To be fair everyone except Moyes had a good spell with us. It’s always the case though, new managers have like an honeymoon period before we go back to being shite.

Never forget the 4-1 v Swansea debut for Moyes. We also battered teams in our UCL group (Leverkusen 5-0)
 
What on earth are you on about? You suggest it's OK to lose to Wolves and Leicester because they're top half teams.
But ten hag had an easy run facing and beating Brighton and Newcastle, ranked 6th and 4th at the end of last season. And Ole would have feasibly beaten them, even though he choked to Wolves and Leicester? In fact you say wolves and Leicester were harder outfits to face than Brighton and Newcastle :lol:

Are you broken? Take a rest.

It's not really OK to lose to Leicester/Wolves, similar as it is not OK to lose to Sevilla, Villarreal, Leipzig, Galatasaray, Copenhagen or Newcastle B team, but playing away from home in an FA Cup to a team like that is always tricky. It is disappointing to lose to them but not really embarrassing, you are expecting a tough game and obviously you won't win all of them.

They were on par with Newcastle/Brighton last year and never have I suggested otherwise, but it's not like Ole lost to every single good team he faced in cups either. In 2020-21 he knocked out Liverpool and West Ham (both top 6 that year) before losing to Leicester in FA Cup, 2019-20 League Cup he did knock out Chelsea before losing to City etc..

He never had a cup run where he only had to face a single semi-decent opponent though, and our League Cup run last year was literally historically easy. Based on his cup runs I am relatively certain he would have made it to the final last year (very little to suggest otherwise as he never lost a cup game to a team remotely close to who we faced prior to Wembely), whether he'd have been able to beat Newcastle I obviously don't know and neither do you - his cup record against good teams suggests it would have probably been a 50/50, maybe slightly in his favor due to Newcastle form. Thing is, we basically had to win one remotely tough game to win the cup last year, it is very, very rare.

I mean I know that deep down you are aware that your arguments make no sense, which is why I find it so incredibly easy to dismantle them, but I also understand you are so invested in Ten Hag that you cannot possibly back down now.
 
The fact we're debating who was the better manager, Ole or ETH, is a testament to just how far we've fallen. It's like debating whether Weghorst or Ighalo was the better striker. The answer is irrelevant, because clearly neither was good enough, a conclusion which applies to both debates.
 
As Sir Jim said NO ONE has had success in this environment post Fergie.... United were not a FC and acted FAR from it. Jose and LVG had big CV's and failed here. Why? While I don't love the direction ETH is trending I also think this season was a write off. Ownership wasn't settled.... MASSIVE injuries to key players. 1 striker who just turned 21 on the books (martial doesn't count because he can't tie his shoes without getting hurt).

We've shone potential at times but it's very clear ETH doesn't have the players to play the system. And before you claim Antony... I think ETH in absence of a structure to help find players had to rely on his past experience. Mason Mount was a club signing that we should have spent money on in other places (Kim Min Jae ring a bell!?!)

I'd give him another season honestly with the right structure... moving forward it'll be easier to replace a coach since we have the structure above and around to make transition easier.

Do we think Tuchel or Nagelsman or others could do better RIGHT NOW? with this squad in this state? no I don't think Pep could work miracles with this group right now.
 
The fact we're debating who was the better manager, Ole or ETH, is a testament to just how far we've fallen. It's like debating whether Weghorst or Ighalo was the better striker. The answer is irrelevant, because clearly neither was good enough, a conclusion which applies to both debates.

Yeah of course neither of them is good enough. That you even have to pretend 1 extra point and a League Cup win elevate a manager to a whole new level is quite ridiculous.
 
Never forget the 4-1 v Swansea debut for Moyes. We also battered teams in our UCL group (Leverkusen 5-0)
Moyes season was actually better than this season. Comfortably better.
 
It's not really OK to lose to Leicester/Wolves, similar as it is not OK to lose to Sevilla, Villarreal, Leipzig, Galatasaray, Copenhagen or Newcastle B team, but playing away from home in an FA Cup to a team like that is always tricky. It is disappointing to lose to them but not really embarrassing, you are expecting a tough game and obviously you won't win all of them.

They were on par with Newcastle/Brighton last year and never have I suggested otherwise, but it's not like Ole lost to every single good team he faced in cups either. In 2020-21 he knocked out Liverpool and West Ham (both top 6 that year) before losing to Leicester in FA Cup, 2019-20 League Cup he did knock out Chelsea before losing to City etc..

He never had a cup run where he only had to face a single semi-decent opponent though, and our League Cup run last year was literally historically easy. Based on his cup runs I am relatively certain he would have made it to the final last year (very little to suggest otherwise as he never lost a cup game to a team remotely close to who we faced prior to Wembely), whether he'd have been able to beat Newcastle I obviously don't know and neither do you - his cup record against good teams suggests it would have probably been a 50/50, maybe slightly in his favor due to Newcastle form. Thing is, we basically had to win one remotely tough game to win the cup last year, it is very, very rare.

I mean I know that deep down you are aware that your arguments make no sense, which is why I find it so incredibly easy to dismantle them, but I also understand you are so invested in Ten Hag that you cannot possibly back down now.
You're giving long replies to such a pointless debate that you started. You've dismantled nothing, outside of talking shite.

Ten Hag won a cup. Ole won nothing. Ten hag reached a higher point tally than Ole did.
Ole had form for also having embarrassing domestic cup exits, so insinuating ten hag was lucky on his opponents over Ole is just stupid. Move on now.
 
Really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here if the only defense you have left in favor of your lover continuing as the manager is that he had one more point than Ole...an interim who should have never been hired as the permanent manager.
 
You're giving long replies to such a pointless debate that you started. You've dismantled nothing, outside of talking shite.

Ten Hag won a cup. Ole won nothing. Ten hag reached a higher point tally than Ole did.
Ole had form for also having embarrassing domestic cup exits, so insinuating ten hag was lucky on his opponents over Ole is just stupid. Move on now.

Not really, and you know very well that I have proven all your points incorrect/irrelevant (not very difficult when throw things in the air without checking facts), I appreciate that you don't want to continue though which is a good decision.
 
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Really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here if the only defense you have left in favor of your lover continuing as the manager is that he had one more point than Ole...an interim who should have never been hired as the permanent manager.
:lol: Indeed.

All that sets them apart is 1 incredibly meaningless point and a League Cup win / Europa League penalty shootout. One is a historical failure, the other is a massive success.
 
Yeah of course neither of them is good enough. That you even have to pretend 1 extra point and a League Cup win elevate a manager to a whole new level is quite ridiculous.
Agreed. Two cheeks of the same ass
 
Not really, and you know very well that I have proven all your points incorrect/irrelevant (not very difficult when throw things in the air without checking facts), I appreciate that you don't want to continue though which is a good decision.
OK kid, make more things up.
Yeah of course neither of them is good enough. That you even have to pretend 1 extra point and a League Cup win elevate a manager to a whole new level is quite ridiculous.
You're the one who put the Ole VS ten hag success on the forum in the first place :lol:

You could have just left it when I said "no he didn't" after you tried to argue one was better than the other, but you couldn't resist go on a stupid pointless micro debate and talk nonsense.
 
Maybe but questions will need to be asked. We keep employing these managers that have won stuff before us and if they win stuff after us then that tells you the problem is somewhere els. Ratcliffe has already mentioned that our previous managers haven’t been successful and that’s because of the type of environment they’ve been working in. We’ve got troubled players and until we get rid of the bad egos in the dressing room, I don’t think any manager will succeed.
Not one of the managers we've sacked so far has done anything of note after leaving us, apart from Mourinho maybe but that was only after he failed miserably at Spurs.
 
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