Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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christinaa said:
Because against Liverpool we were happy to defend deep and played for a draw taking what could come along.
Today we tried to win so it's possible to change tactics/team.
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It's possible to change tactics/teams but you didn't explain why we could not use a similar tactic/team against West Ham. In fact I have an other question, would it be inconceivable to use the more stable and coherent organization that we used against Liverpool and build from it instead of going back to an approach that has been really bad all season?

I should add that if we played for a draw more often, we would have far less losses this season, 8 losses in 18 league games is a pretty high record.
 
The Hilton said:
It's exactly your logic. You said that playing McTominay means we're in survival mode, because there's no place for him if we're playing progressive football. If you're going to make such childish definitive statements, then the logic can be followed to absurd results.

As for McTominay, it was stated all summer that Ten Hag would prefer to keep him, and he's central to our plans because the midfielders that would play in his place (Mount, Casemiro, etc) are injured.

Who would you have started in his place today?
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It's not childish at all and just because it hurt your feelings doesn't change anything. There's no progressive football with a limited player like McTominay in the starting XI and if you disagree then we can just agree to disagree.

There were clear reports that Utd were open to selling him and replace him and Fred with Amrabat and promoting Mainoo, Mjebri from the academy.

I would have kept the same lineup from the Liverpool game(which unfortunately includes Scott) because it helps build some consistency. We atleast did the basics right and had the best chance of the game. More importantly we did something we rarely do - did not get beat away from home vs a half decent opponent.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
You openly call Solskjaer shite, a man who finished 2nd (better than Ten Hag) and then even have the audacity to suggest Ten Hag is the best because he won a carling cup in his first season.

Jose finished second and won two trophies in his time here. Factually better than Ten Hag.

Louis won the FA cup. Beats any carling cup.

For whatever reason you've decided to die on the Ten Hag hill rather than admit he's not up to the job. Strange stance but fine, some people struggle to back down and admit they were wrong. I get it. Just don't go lying and bending the truth to defend him
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Reaching EL final beating far better quality opponents on the way compared to what what we faced last year in the carling cup is also better imo.
 
VP89 said:
No we haven't. No manager has done better than a cup and top 4 in their tenure. If anything Ten Hag got this on the board earlier than any of the previous managers.

What we have seen is a collapse in every reign, and this idea that it's always the managers fault without any context is tiresome.
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Van Gaal built a better structure of play and won a bigger trophy. Jose won two trophies and finished higher with far more points.

Ole played better football and finished second. Apart from Moyes ETH is our worst manager post Fergie by some margin.

He’s not even very likeable like Ole, LVG or Jose were either yet fans are saying give him more time.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
It's not childish at all and just because it hurt your feelings doesn't change anything. There's no progressive football with a limited player like McTominay in the starting XI and if you disagree then we can just agree to disagree.

There were clear reports that Utd were open to selling him and replace him and Fred with Amrabat and promoting Mainoo, Mjebri from the academy.

I would have kept the same lineup from the Liverpool game(which unfortunately includes Scott) because it helps build some consistency. We atleast did the basics right and had the best chance of the game. More importantly we did something we rarely do - did not get beat away from home vs a half decent opponent.
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Hurt my feelings? Again with the childishness. I'm just pointing out your faulty logic.

The thing is, I agree with you that McTominay isn't a long term solution for us, but he's playing out of necessity. The idea that one player in the lineup means we've given up and are in survival mode is obviously nonsense.
 
VP89 said:
It's not though. And youre just purposely being obtuse about the fact that our entire ownership has been up in the air for a year, and weirdly assuming that has no adverse effect on the manager. You think Ole performed better than Ten Hag? Longest drought without a cup and his prime style wasn't evolved upon for 3x longer than what you're whinging about with Ten Hag.

And you're chatting shite to me about gaslighting(!)
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Brother, I said we’ve seen managers at United perform better under this same structure. Your reply was “no we haven’t - no manager has done better than cup and top 4”. If that’s not gaslighting, what is? Come on man

United needs structural and managerial change. Ten Hag’s shortcomings go beyond DoF/structure.

United has an overdraft in goal difference. Has lost 13 games prior to Christmas (not happened since 1930). Not scored in 4 (not happened since 1992)

Ten Hag is not the hill to die on, unfortunately. Merry Christmas
 
JPRouve said:
It's possible to change tactics/teams but you didn't explain why we could not use a similar tactic/team against West Ham. In fact I have an other question, would it be inconceivable to use the more stable and coherent organization that we used against Liverpool and build from it instead of going back to an approach that has been really bad all season?
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I've been saying this and the reason it's happening is because of the managers incompetence it's got nothing to do with the quality of the players. United under Eth have no neutrality, if they go for a result it's gung ho and the result is breaking records at Anfield. If the team players too pragmatic, there's not enough momentum generated in the attack and the team struggle. Pragmatism is the best approach Erik has because he's seemingly incapable of finding a balance that allows the team to be sufficient in both attacking and defensive phases.

People can talk about ownership, player fallouts, fixture congestion or whatever the excuse but the prime issue this season has been tactical ineptitude. United have looked awful in games that have been won, the underlying problem is the teams performances are worse than any manager with maybe the exception of Ragnick. In employment you can have a bad day at the office even perform poorly over the quarters but you cannot have a cataclysmic level of decline, Erik if he makes the season will go down as having the worse single season for any manager under the reign of United since Sir Alex retired.

Fans can look to Arteta and Arsenal as some type of salvation like business model for underperformance but as I've stated time and time again that is the exception not the rule.
 
SAFMUTD said:
It's really amazing how modern and fluid in attack his ajax team played and how awful and basic our football is. Most worrying thing is that it's not like we're trying and failing, were not even building any style just playing straight shit football and yet he persists with the same formation and tactics.
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Yup, the weirdest thing for me is that he abandoned all of his principles and even now, this is the hill he'll die on even though he's almost sacked.
The ten Hag that came in 18 months ago, looked at Maguire and McT and thought, the feck with these archaic footballers, I want comfortable possession all over the pitch, I want control, I want structure. 18 months in, and he's abandoned all of this and resorts to prime survival tactics, relying on chaos. I don't get it.
He really is not (or was not) that guy and it's obvious that something has changed at some point.
 
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The Hilton said:
Hurt my feelings? Again with the childishness. I'm just pointing out your faulty logic.

The thing is, I agree with you that McTominay isn't a long term solution for us, but he's playing out of necessity. The idea that one player in the lineup means we've given up and are in survival mode is obviously nonsense.
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If you think this is not survival mode then I'm even more worried.

Was it a coincidence that McTominay came back into the starting lineup(and has been a mainstay since) after he scored those 2 goals against Brentford?
 
Can he just not do something different, play a different system or something.

We can't score or create chances.

Change it up, go Wing backs system, play with width. 3 CBs, 3 central midfielders and 2 upfront.

Hojlund not getting any service. Stick him upfront with another CF. Get wing backs to get forward and put some crosses in FFS.

Poxy modern day 4-3-3. Not working at all. Players not performing playing it.

Least make us hard to play against.
 
christinaa said:
why?
Do you also think that today Ten Hag should have used the same team/tactics as in the Liverpool game??
This is the whole point i've been trying get through to him.
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Independent parties have told you that you made little to no sense in our exchange. It is what it is.
 
TsuWave said:
Brother, I said we’ve seen managers at United perform better under this same structure. Your reply was “no we haven’t - no manager has done better than cup and top 4”. If that’s not gaslighting, what is? Come on man

United needs structural and managerial change. Ten Hag’s shortcomings go beyond DoF/structure.

United has an overdraft in goal difference. Has lost 13 games prior to Christmas (not happened since 1930). Not scored in 4 (not happened since 1992)

Ten Hag is not the hill to die on, unfortunately. Merry Christmas
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It's not the same structure though is it? Ten Hag worked under a new CEO and new DoF debuting in their first summers. Two months after which the club was put up for sale and they essentially didn't know if they had jobs for the next quarter rolling forward.

I dont know why it's so hard for you to grasp that it's a different case, and I also don't get why you claim Ten Hag is worse than Ole. His worst moments may be worse than Ole but his tenure overall isn't. And his injuries is worse on top.
 
I've just seen on the BBC that this is our worst start to a season in 97 years, surely there is no stat that will beat that.
 
IncyWincySpider said:
I've just seen on the BBC that this is our worst start to a season in 97 years, surely there is no stat that will beat that.
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No, particularly because it's not even the start to the season anymore. We are half way through :lol:
 
Xaviboy said:
Can he just not do something different, play a different system or something.

We can't score or create chances.

Change it up, go Wing backs system, play with width. 3 CBs, 3 central midfielders and 2 upfront.

Hojlund not getting any service. Stick him upfront with another CF. Get wing backs to get forward and put some crosses in FFS.

Poxy modern day 4-3-3. Not working at all. Players not performing playing it.

Least make us hard to play against.
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EtH has attempted a variety of different tactics this season and none of them have worked for ine and the same reason:

We have nothing up front.

Nothing.

Rashford's 30 goal turn was an outlier, Hojlund looks like a turkey and Martial is and always will be Martial.

Inreally am confused by Hojlund. He offers virtually nothing and his feted CL record included a few tap-ins. What does he do, exactly?

We have Garnacho, Antony, Sancho, Amad otherwise.

The team collapses when a goal is scored because of this struggle to score.

It is a serious problem.
 
Redstain said:
I've been saying this and the reason it's happening is because of the managers incompetence it's got nothing to do with the quality of the players. United under Eth have no neutrality, if they go for a result it's gung ho and the result is breaking records at Anfield. If the team players too pragmatic, there's not enough momentum generated in the attack and the team struggle. Pragmatism is the best approach Erik has because he's seemingly incapable of finding a balance that allows the team to be sufficient in both attacking and defensive phases.

People can talk about ownership, player fallouts, fixture congestion or whatever the excuse but the prime issue this season has been tactical ineptitude. United have looked awful in games that have been won, the underlying problem is the teams performances are worse than any manager with maybe the exception of Ragnick. In employment you can have a bad day at the office even perform poorly over the quarters but you cannot have a cataclysmic level of decline, Erik if he makes the season will go down as having the worse single season for any manager under the reign of United since Sir Alex retired.

Fans can look to Arteta and Arsenal as some type of salvation like business model for underperformance but as I've stated time and time again that is the exception not the rule.
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Arteta was never this bad, right? Maybe his 2nd season was shaky, but he brought in the right players. His GD was strong, suggesting they underperformed relative to GD.
 
Sanchez7 said:
Apparently there isn't anyone better available than this guy :lol:
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We must stay away from average managers like Potter and Flick at all costs, and instead reward Ten Hag, an even worse manager, by continuing to pay him £200k per week and making it clear there is zero accountability for the job he's doing. It's literally the only option we have
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
If you think this is not survival mode then I'm even more worried.

Was it a coincidence that McTominay came back into the starting lineup(and has been a mainstay since) after he scored those 2 goals against Brentford?
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Players scoring goals will put themselves in the team, that's the entire point of football. He's our top goalscorer at the moment, and while that's a damning indictment of our forwards, it makes perfect sense that ETH is playing the one player on our team who is currently able to put the ball in the net.
 
Berbaclass said:
So funny.
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christinaa said:
This supposed to be funny?
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Not funny, and I shit you not, Gossip Girl.

FRgxgxL.png
 
DSG said:
Arteta was never this bad, right? Maybe his 2nd season was shaky, but he brought in the right players. His GD was strong, suggesting they underperformed relative to GD.
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Yeah it's mostly to point at the ridiculous rhetoric that time automatically signifies success. Arteta as it stands given his lack of experience and trajectory will be one of the best managers in Europe outperforming some of the best managers in the process. It stands that his ceiling is substantially higher than Eth's.

Like most professions there are levels to things, in boxing you can have a local who demolishes everyone on the domestic scene. They get something like the Lonsdale championship belt (British) and those are decent accolades. However that same fighter can fight someone in the top 15 of a world ranking association (WBC, WBA) and get absolutely battered even though they are a champion on the domestic scene. That's what it feels like with Eth. His success as a manager is relative at a certain level.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We must stay away from average managers like Potter and Flick at all costs, and instead reward Ten Hag, an even worse manager, by continuing to pay him £200k per week and making it clear there is zero accountability for the job he's doing. It's literally the only option we have
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Sean Dyche is running laps around this clown despite being dealt a worse hand and we all know it.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We must stay away from average managers like Potter and Flick at all costs, and instead reward Ten Hag, an even worse manager, by continuing to pay him £200k per week and making it clear there is zero accountability for the job he's doing. It's literally the only option we have
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Wouldn't put it past this club to even reward him with a new contract. Quite easily the most ill managed club in the league which takes some doing as even Everton have managed to get a few things right and are 2 pts behind us ex the 10 pt deduction.
 
The Hilton said:
Players scoring goals will put themselves in the team, that's the entire point of football. He's our top goalscorer at the moment, and while that's a damning indictment of our forwards, it makes perfect sense that ETH is playing the one player on our team who is currently able to put the ball in the net.
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He was thrown on as a last hope, launch it in the box... And now suddenly that means starting the next dozen games, never subbed off - almost like our main strategy is based around his late runs, sacrificing having a midfield.

If those Brentford goals had fallen to Maguire, would he have then got a run as the no.9?

It's ridiculous logic.
 
The Hilton said:
Players scoring goals will put themselves in the team, that's the entire point of football. He's our top goalscorer at the moment, and while that's a damning indictment of our forwards, it makes perfect sense that ETH is playing the one player on our team who is currently able to put the ball in the net.
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He didn't just put him in the team. He made the entire team's strategy to be feed Scott with balls waiting for him to repeat the Brentford game every time. This alone is far more than enough evidence Ten Hag has no clue how to manage the team, neither does he have any style to implement. He threw everything out of the window and decided to build the team around Scott freaking McTominay because he scored 2 late goals in a game and saved his job once.

This Brentford game will be the ultimate reason for his own sacking when it happens.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
And they have significant injuries too. Yes they lost a few games because of that but they aren't collapsing like we are.
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They play complete dross like Skipp, Hojbjerg and Royal regularly and still win matches. We have a CB missing and our entire buildup structure collapses.
 
el3mel said:
He didn't just put him in the team. He made the entire team's strategy to be feed Scott with balls waiting for him to repeat the Brentford game every time. This alone is far more than enough evidence Ten Hag has no clue how to manage the team, neither does he have any style to implement. He threw everything out of the window and decided to build the team around Scott freaking McTominay because he scored 2 late goals in a game and saved his job once.

This Brentford game will be the ultimate reason for his own sacking when it happens.
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That's entirely made up. He gave McTominay freedom to get into the box more, no doubt, but the idea that the entire strategy is "give the ball to McTominay" is utter nonsense.
 
The Hilton said:
That's entirely made up. He gave McTominay freedom to get into the box more, no doubt, but the idea that the entire strategy is "give the ball to McTominay" is utter nonsense.
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That's what you're trying to convince yourself with. Anyone watching the team will realize what I'm saying is true.
 
laughtersassassin said:


Letting him continue is simply not an option. We run the risk of him fluking some decent results in which case the "sack" clock resets despite the fact we got ample proof it's not going to work long term.
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I mean I knew it was bad but….
 
Robindinho said:
He was thrown on as a last hope, launch it in the box... And now suddenly that means starting the next dozen games, never subbed off - almost like our main strategy is based around his late runs, sacrificing having a midfield.

If those Brentford goals had fallen to Maguire, would he have then got a run as the no.9?

It's ridiculous logic.
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McTominay is currently our best goalscorer, that's why he's playing. It isn't ideal, I agree I'd rather have the likes of Mejbri starting, or Mount or Casemiro when they're fit, but we need someone to put the ball in the net and only one player in the squad at the moment is capable of doing that. There's nothing desperate about playing your best goalscorer, and once our forwards find their scoring boots he'll find his way out of the starting XI very quickly.
 
DSG said:
Newcastle, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Bayern and Liverpool coming next. If we lose 3 of those and lose to Liverpool badly, is Ten Hag sacked?
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So that's LWLLD.

Here are the next 5 -
West Ham away L
Forest away
Wigan home
Spurs home
Wolves away

9/15 would be a miracle imo.
 
Sanchez7 said:
So that's LWLLD.

Here are the next 5 -
West Ham away L
Forest away
Wigan home
Spurs home
Wolves away

9/15 would be a miracle imo.
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We have Villa on Tuesday

I think that could get ugly. We have absolutely nothing to win that game
 
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