Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Weve also seen those managers capitulate. So that kills that.

Kills what? I never made any matter of factly statements about managers not capitulating nor that we will be an all conquering team.

On the other hand you said - verbatim -“Objectively it can be argued that any manager would fail in the current structure under the current DoF anyway. I don't think any manager gets a fair shake.” And that’s verifiably not correct as we’ve seen managers perform better than the current guy.
 
He’s too stubborn to adapt his game. He just wants more of the same but better, and then blames the players for not being better when we need prime Barca level players to do what he wants. What he doesn’t realise is his system doesn’t work outside of leagues that give you time on the ball to take multiple touches before passing.

What good system relies on that, in fact which good team has ever had a system that require or promote taking multiple touches before passing, outside of dribblers dribbling?
 
How the hell can he continuing doing the same mistakes in the line up over again? It is so obvious
 
I mean the posts are here for everyone to read. Unfortunately for you emojis won’t change that
You don't know what you're saying and you're trying to defend the indefensible.
 


Letting him continue is simply not an option. We run the risk of him fluking some decent results in which case the "sack" clock resets despite the fact we got ample proof it's not going to work long term.

I remember how Gary was torn apart for being one of the most useless managers to ever exist. Yet we have an equally useless buffoon at United and 50% of United fansnwant to keep him. It'd be hilarious if not for the fact I care about the club
 
I remember how Gary was torn apart for being one of the most useless managers to ever exist. Yet we have an equally useless buffoon at United and 50% of United fansnwant to keep him. It'd be hilarious if not for the fact I care about the club

Expectations are in the gutter. Any sort of win is vindication of his management for some
 
Does anyone think we'll see Mainoo paired with Eriksen, now that he's fit, or will we be forced to endure 'sometimes pops up with a goal but generally does feck all' McT for the foreseable?

until casamiro is fit Mainoo and Erikson is the way forward. Erikson has some defensive limitations but only when he plays do we start to resemble a team that can play football. Erikson was crucial to last seasons sucess
 
What was his “it was good 72 minutes about”? We played dreadful boring football, created 1 chance over entire game - does ETH think we played well before conceding?
 
This is the opposite of what he's done though, one of the biggest complaints in this thread is that he's persisting with his system given how it makes us vulnerable to counter attacks.

Last season he was pragmatic, and it did get results, this season he's insisted on a more progressive approach in spite of the injuries, our vulnerability, etc.
It's suicidally naive to play that style with a front five that has zero ball retention skills and severely lacking in tactical nous - see how City are notorious with committing quick cynical fouls to stop counters? They know their system's vulnerability and have to plan to mitigate against whilst we get more yellows for whining rather than tactical fouls.

His naivety borders on criminal negligence, to go away to West Ham with an 18 year old coming off an injury lay off in a lone midfield role partnering reckless cowboys is sackeable. You need to control the midfield yet we deliberately choose an unbalanced one because he saw McTom score a brace two months ago!

If we were failing and he was truly sticking to all his principles and we could see them then fine. We now play hoofball, if we wanted that we could have hired Big Sam who is at least good at it. He saw McTom bang a few in and opportunistically chose to exploit that at the expense of actual control in the middle. Pathetic.
 
What good system relies on that, in fact which good team has ever had a system that require or promote taking multiple touches before passing, outside of dribblers dribbling?
You don’t get the opportunity to be in advanced positions in the PL and take multiple touches and wait for your forward line to find space. You get that in Holland because the opposition are shit for the most part. You need quick, slick passing, side to side while you open the opposition up. Even Pep realised this not soon after he arrived.
 
I remember how Gary was torn apart for being one of the most useless managers to ever exist. Yet we have an equally useless buffoon at United and 50% of United fansnwant to keep him. It'd be hilarious if not for the fact I care about the club
Yeah but that league cup was really the World Cup so it’s understandable
 
until casamiro is fit Mainoo and Erikson is the way forward. Erikson has some defensive limitations but only when he plays do we start to resemble a team that can play football. Erikson was crucial to last seasons sucess

That's my thinking too and I'm hoping he gets thrown in but I'm not sure I trust Ten Hag to do that at this stage.
 
Kills what? I never made any matter of factly statements about managers not capitulating nor that we will be an all conquering team.

On the other hand you said - verbatim -“Objectively it can be argued that any manager would fail in the current structure under the current DoF anyway. I don't think any manager gets a fair shake.” And that’s verifiably not correct as we’ve seen managers perform better than the current guy.
No we haven't. No manager has done better than a cup and top 4 in their tenure. If anything Ten Hag got this on the board earlier than any of the previous managers.

What we have seen is a collapse in every reign, and this idea that it's always the managers fault without any context is tiresome.
 
You claimed that the poster knows nothing about tactics so maybe you can shed some light on those.
Of course:
This game today was different to the Liverpool match as we didn't need to defend - we didn't play for a 0-0 today.
His point was why did EtH need to change the team from Liverpool's.
But he doesn't seem to understand that the two games are different.
Hope you understand this simple explanation
 
It's not really a hyperbole. Its based on 5 years of worthless performances.

And you can tell me whats wrong with my post. McTominay was transfer listed but we couldn't find a buyer. How can he be a part of the plans if he was allowed to go?

By your logic every manager who's played McTominay has given up tbf instant they played him. That clearly isn't true.

He's playing at the moment as he's our only player who seems capable of scoring at the moment, lots of players who aren't part of our long term plans are getting in the team because we've run out of players due to injuries.
 
Of course:
This game today was different to the Liverpool match as we didn't need to defend - we didn't play for a 0-0 today.
His point was why did EtH need to change the team from Liverpool's.
But he doesn't seem to understand that the two games are different.
Hope you understand this simple explanation
First of all this playing for 0-0 argument dies if our striker doesn't fluff his chance against Alisson.

And secondly, what makes you think that something that has failed for 10 times previously is going to work for 11th time?

11 away losses to top half teams under ETH's tenure.
 
You don't know what you're saying and you're trying to defend the indefensible.

Unfortunately for you - today I've got time. Ask anyone with adequate reading comprehension to review our exchange and ask them who doesn't know what they're saying.

Here to help you out:

So some people want to sack another manager?
And you think this will solve all problems?
Haven’t we been here before?
Yes, let’s stick it out with an incompetent and under performing manager because we’ve sacked incompetent and underperforming managers in the past. We also shouldn’t buy players ever again since we’ve made bad buys and have been there before :wenger:

No one is saying sacking Ten Hag will “solve all problems” - it will solve some however. United needs structural AND managerial change.
More structural and definitely director of football
Yes, Ten Hag is not able to coach the players he found here nor the players he brought in, but somehow the DoF will magically find the players he can coach and fix his formation as team selections, the fact he can’t arrange a cohesive defensive shape, his substitutions and in-game management. Genius :wenger:

Besides, at no point in my posts did I argue what you need “more” or “before”. That’s not even taking in consideration that managerial change can be actioned much sooner and again fix some of our existing problems. Again, structural and managerial change aren’t mutually exclusive and evidently - both are needed at United.

Much like you previous post you’re arguing strawmen. Read above.
So according to you today we should have played for a draw?
No sense at all.
:confused: what are you talking about and where did I say we should have played for a draw? What?
You don't know anything about tactics and you're writing gibberish
Says the person that presented “we sacked managers before” as justification for their stance, and got “we should play for a draw” out of a list of Ten Hag shortcomings. Cool
 
It's suicidally naive to play that style with a front five that has zero ball retention skills and severely lacking in tactical nous - see how City are notorious with committing quick cynical fouls to stop counters? They know their system's vulnerability and have to plan to mitigate against whilst we get more yellows for whining rather than tactical fouls.

His naivety borders on criminal negligence, to go away to West Ham with an 18 year old coming off an injury lay off in a lone midfield role partnering reckless cowboys is sackeable. You need to control the midfield yet we deliberately choose an unbalanced one because he saw McTom score a brace two months ago!

If we were failing and he was truly sticking to all his principles and we could see them then fine. We now play hoofball, if we wanted that we could have hired Big Sam who is at least good at it. He saw McTom bang a few in and opportunistically chose to exploit that at the expense of actual control in the middle. Pathetic.

Criminal negligence? :lol:

I've seen some unhinged rants on here but that's right up there with the best of them.
 
By your logic every manager who's played McTominay has given up tbf instant they played him. That clearly isn't true.

He's playing at the moment as he's our only player who seems capable of scoring at the moment, lots of players who aren't part of our long term plans are getting in the team because we've run out of players due to injuries.
Bad argument. Not at all my logic. He wasn't transfer listed under the previous managers and there was never a talk of moving him on.

Just answer this - how does a transfer listed player become central to ones plans?

As you said, he is clearly playing him because he is scoring right now. This wasn't in the plans and we are in survival mode.
 
Just feels like putting the cart before the horse to sack him. Murtough identifying a target and Joel Glazer having veto on the decision is obviously a non starter. Until the ownership question is resolved and about 3 appointments in terms of CEO's, Director of Football, Scouts are made theres just no point. Think of him as a caretaker manager if you want.
You could put some managerial god in charge of these players and they still wont achieve much anyway. You probably need half a dozen signings before any kind of title chase is plausible.
 
Unfortunately for you - today I've got time. Ask anyone with adequate reading comprehension to review our exchange and ask them who doesn't know what they're saying.

Here to help you out:

You still don't know anything about tactics or football in general it seems.
 
No we haven't. No manager has done better than a cup and top 4 in their tenure. If anything Ten Hag got this on the board earlier than any of the previous managers.

What we have seen is a collapse in every reign, and this idea that it's always the managers fault without any context is tiresome.

How can I have a serious conversation when people are so shameless and intellectually dishonest in their replies/arguments.

"We've seen managers perform better than Ten Hag with this structure so the notion that's impossible to do better is verifiable wrong"

response - "no we haven't no manager has done better than a cup and top 4"

This level of gaslighting is incredible
 
You don’t get the opportunity to be in advanced positions in the PL and take multiple touches and wait for your forward line to find space. You get that in Holland because the opposition are shit for the most part. You need quick, slick passing, side to side while you open the opposition up. Even Pep realised this not soon after he arrived.

Let me be clear, no top has a system where the players are expected to take multiple touches before passing it. What you describe is the antithesis of Ajax system, it's the antithesis.

And to be even more explicit what you described isn't a system, it's a lack of skills from the players and manager. For the players it's due to the fact that most of our players are literally unable to control, pass and move, especially our star players who are frankly disgraceful in that department. For the manager it's that his system doesn't create easy and obvious passing nets, the team isn't set to use space efficiently and players are easily isolated, also none of our players have improved technically.

As an example Barcelona and Ajax academies used to instruct players to control the ball with one foot and pass it with the other because it is the quickest way to complete the control and pass sequence. Our players can't control a ball without ejecting it 2 meters away from them.


The point being that what you have an issue with has nothing to do with other leagues, nothing to do with a system but shit players from a technical standpoint and a subpar head coach.
 
He’s too stubborn to adapt his game. He just wants more of the same but better, and then blames the players for not being better when we need prime Barca level players to do what he wants. What he doesn’t realise is his system doesn’t work outside of leagues that give you time on the ball to take multiple touches before passing.

No system change can suddenly make us score enough to get top 4.

It wasn't a system last year that did. It was Rashford going on a run of form. That's the only difference between last year and this in terms of goalscoring.

Essentially we need Rashford to kick into gear. That's about all that can significantly change now unless we make Jan signings.
 
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It's really amazing how modern and fluid in attack his ajax team played and how awful and basic our football is. Most worrying thing is that it's not like we're trying and failing, were not even building any style just playing straight shit football and yet he persists with the same formation and tactics.
 
Bad argument. Not at all my logic. He wasn't transfer listed under the previous managers and there was never a talk of moving him on.

Just answer this - how does a transfer listed player become central to ones plans?

As you said, he is clearly playing him because he is scoring right now. This wasn't in the plans and we are in survival mode.

It's exactly your logic. You said that playing McTominay means we're in survival mode, because there's no place for him if we're playing progressive football. If you're going to make such childish definitive statements, then the logic can be followed to absurd results.

As for McTominay, it was stated all summer that Ten Hag would prefer to keep him, and he's central to our plans because the midfielders that would play in his place (Mount, Casemiro, etc) are injured.

Who would you have started in his place today?
 
In fairness from the exchanges that I've seen, you are making little to no sense here.
why?
Do you also think that today Ten Hag should have used the same team/tactics as in the Liverpool game??
This is the whole point i've been trying get through to him.
 
No we haven't. No manager has done better than a cup and top 4 in their tenure. If anything Ten Hag got this on the board earlier than any of the previous managers.

What we have seen is a collapse in every reign, and this idea that it's always the managers fault without any context is tiresome.
You openly call Solskjaer shite, a man who finished 2nd (better than Ten Hag) and then even have the audacity to suggest Ten Hag is the best because he won a carling cup in his first season.

Jose finished second and won two trophies in his time here. Factually better than Ten Hag.

Louis won the FA cup. Beats any carling cup.

For whatever reason you've decided to die on the Ten Hag hill rather than admit he's not up to the job. Strange stance but fine, some people struggle to back down and admit they were wrong. I get it. Just don't go lying and bending the truth to defend him
 
why?
Do you also think that today Ten Hag should have used the same team/tactics as in the Liverpool game??
This is the whole point i've been trying get through to him.

I probably missed it but why the tactics or team used against Liverpool weren't suitable for this game?
 
I think it’s about time he left the club. I think he’s a pretty good manager but I’ve yet to see any genius that should save his skin from these unfortunate circumstances.

He’s made too many mistakes and can’t really communicate to the media or players by the looks of it properly.

Last season I thought we a bully boy side. I’m not a fan of his football one bit. Preferred our football under Ole most weeks even if we maybe didn’t win as much.

Ole at least at had some belief we could beat better sides and we did often.

We are an embarrassment the way we play the game 18 months into this current managers reign. Sometimes you have to make good with what you have.

This isn’t that and I don’t see a good way of playing the game.
 
I probably missed it but why the tactics or team used against Liverpool weren't suitable for this game?
Because against Liverpool we were happy to defend deep and played for a draw taking what could come along.
Today we tried to win so it's possible to change tactics/team.
 
How can I have a serious conversation when people are so shameless and intellectually dishonest in their replies/arguments.

"We've seen managers perform better than Ten Hag with this structure so the notion that's impossible to do better is verifiable wrong"

response - "no we haven't no manager has done better than a cup and top 4"

This level of gaslighting is incredible
It's not though. And youre just purposely being obtuse about the fact that our entire ownership has been up in the air for a year, and weirdly assuming that has no adverse effect on the manager. You think Ole performed better than Ten Hag? Longest drought without a cup and his prime style wasn't evolved upon for 3x longer than what you're whinging about with Ten Hag.

And you're chatting shite to me about gaslighting(!)
 
The clear improvement upper management has made was not having given the manager a contract extension after last season's tinpot win. So ETH has only 1 1/2 season left on his 3 yes contract deal!

That's progress
 
You openly call Solskjaer shite, a man who finished 2nd (better than Ten Hag) and then even have the audacity to suggest Ten Hag is the best because he won a carling cup in his first season.

Jose finished second and won two trophies in his time here. Factually better than Ten Hag.

Louis won the FA cup. Beats any carling cup.

For whatever reason you've decided to die on the Ten Hag hill rather than admit he's not up to the job. Strange stance but fine, some people struggle to back down and admit they were wrong. I get it. Just don't go lying and bending the truth to defend him
Ten Hags second season is shite. And he has made a fair few shite calls. I'm not afraid to say that, what's your point?
 
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