Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Judas said:
We play like a side lacking belief, direction and purpose. Ten Hag talks about a plan, but I’ll be damned if I truly see all that much of one.
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but is it ETH’s fault? I really don’t know. Maybe. But what about the other managers? We have been like this for 10 years. I only saw a bit of a spirit when Ole was appointed as interim manager. Other than that, we’ve always been boring and lacked spirit.

simple things, a corner, a free kick, a cross. We have no energy to do them properly…

gabriel and salah scored so far. The hypothetical question is, if we sign gabriel and salah, will they make us a better team or will we drag them to the hole we are in?
 
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Watch this game going on right now and look at the intensity & then ask yourself that even with a fully fit squad can we match this intensity and the answer is no chance.
 
Mr Pigeon said:


"Stick to the plan." Says our very own Dutch Van Der Linde. Dutch, heh.
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I'd be more inclined to "trust the process" if we at least played attractive, and hell at the bare minimum organized football but were dropping points with unfortunate goals. That's just not the case.
 
I would go as far as to say we are one of the worst teams to watch in the league, zero excitement. Our front three create next to nothing and don't seem to know where the goal is, our midfield is atrocious and very error prone, jury still out on Onana, he certainly cost us CL qualification and doesn't seem to inspire confidence.

If we can't score goals at least make sure we don't concede easily and that requires two midfielders protecting the back four but even that thinking seems beyond ten hag. His transfers have been awful, a complete waste of money, I dare say he has set us back financially at least 5 years and has nothing to show for it.

I fully expect him to be gone in January..
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Watch this game going on right now and look at the intensity & then ask yourself that even with a fully fit squad can we match this intensity and the answer is no chance.
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We lost the majority of the games the likes of Casemiro and Licha played together at the start of the season anyway. Anyone thinking them coming back will turn this shower of shite into something remotely competent is living a pipe dream.
 
Cassidy said:
You need to fix the issue before you think about changing the manager
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What is the issue? There isn't one thing and manager is part of the issue. You don't keep an underpeforming manager because there are also problems elsewhere, no.
 
TsuWave said:
this shite again.

Klopp was one of the best managers in the world when he touched down on Liverpool. Titles, cups, CL finalist etc. His effect on Liverpool's football was palpable from the first season.

Arteta hasn't spent £400M - and is an outlier.
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This shite again.
 
Cassidy said:
The same manager who wanted rid of McTominay in the summer by the way. Its quite obvious he does not believe the attacking players can get the goals and thats why he is playing him (as a goal threat) and ariel presence on defensive set pieces.
Its a mistake obviously but its clear why he is doing it.
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Why does he stick to it game after game when it's not working? Surely having control of the midfield means you give you less chances and create more too. Why does he fail to understand this? It was the same last year too, not just this year. He doesn't seem to get how important midfield control is in this league, which is insane when idiots like me can see it
 
Rista said:
What is the issue? There isn't one thing and manager is part of the issue. You don't keep an underpeforming manager because there are also problems elsewhere, no.
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You do when one of the major issues is recruitment of manager
 
PlayerOne said:
Why does he stick to it game after game when it's not working? Surely having control of the midfield means you give you less chances and create more too. Why does he fail to understand this? It was the same last year too, not just this year. He doesn't seem to get how important midfield control is in this league, which is insane when idiots like me can see it
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Its quite obviously does not equate to creating more. Unless you have creative players in there. And its the only thing that has in part worked this season. Its not like its what we started with.

In any case I think we need Casemiro and Eriksen back in the 11
 
He must be taking the piss at this point and waiting for his payout. How long until he is worse than De Boer ?
When Arsenal were awful under Arteta, He was at least trying different things by changing formations & starting players every other week until he found something that worked. ETH is just doing the same thing over and over like a broken AI.
 


Letting him continue is simply not an option. We run the risk of him fluking some decent results in which case the "sack" clock resets despite the fact we got ample proof it's not going to work long term.
 
Rista said:
What is the issue? There isn't one thing and manager is part of the issue. You don't keep an underpeforming manager because there are also problems elsewhere, no.
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Can you imagine some of the people on here running a tech business? They'd stand by and happily watch the head of development release buggy products, waste money investing in outdated software, constantly go over budget, and run the team into the ground, all because the managing director needs replacing and they're too dimwitted to replace multiple employees at once
 
Irwin99 said:
I'm trying to look at ways he can salvage this season and his job: very optimistically it depends on getting his injured players back, going on one hell of a run and hoping both Spurs and Aston Villa lose a lot of points. It's a huge ask when his team just can't score goals.

It would be interesting to see if things improved and he just missed out on top 4 would the club stick by him like Arsenal did with Arteta?
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What players?

Other than Martinez that may marginally improve the defence its a bit of a mysterious statement. We can't score. We've no players to score and it's not a new thing
 
VinchNow said:
He must be taking the piss at this point and waiting for his payout. How long until he is worse than De Boer ?
When Arsenal were awful under Arteta, He was at least trying different things by changing formations & starting players every other week until he found something that worked. ETH is just doing the same thing over and over like a broken AI.
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Unfortunately he can't match De Boer's 0% win percentage.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Watch this game going on right now and look at the intensity & then ask yourself that even with a fully fit squad can we match this intensity and the answer is no chance.
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This./

The guy has managed under a massive injury crisis & is working under batshit leaders but after 18 months he’s yet to show an ability to coach up a group of players, when do we go into these games & put in a performance that shocks?

Liverpool we camped out & did feck all, as I said in the immediacy afterwards it isn’t a performance you can build on & Chelsea are somehow worse than we are but where are the few games this season against the West Ham’s, Brighton’s who are good in their own right but world beaters themselves where EtH [& the players in fairness] have put together a full display of what EtH is training them to do? These performances just don’t exist.

I saw a picture of Martinez in training this week & felt for the guy. He’s one hell of a player but he’s got to coke in and be the best defender & creator in football history.

Back to EtH, 13 losses at this point in the season should be sackable in itself. You don’t start games losing them, fine we might not have an ensemble to blow teams away with wins but he can’t muster effort consistently from this group & that’s on him as manager.
 
lilcurt said:
I see him get compared to Arteta a lot. One thing Arteta always consistently maintained was a style of play, even when he didn't have the players to get the best results with it. You could also see him visible working with the club to try and instil a culture.

ETH seems to have thrown away his principles to try and get instant rewards but still failed.
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This is what happens to managers when they are so desperate and feel so over whelmed. They panic and go into defense mode, literally.


Ayush_reddevil said:
Watch this game going on right now and look at the intensity & then ask yourself that even with a fully fit squad can we match this intensity and the answer is no chance.
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Well we did against Chelsea and then in Europe till rashford got that red, but too far between for us.


PlayerOne said:
Why does he stick to it game after game when it's not working? Surely having control of the midfield means you give you less chances and create more too. Why does he fail to understand this? It was the same last year too, not just this year. He doesn't seem to get how important midfield control is in this league, which is insane when idiots like me can see it
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It’s odd,
It’s arrogance, it’s him being overwhelmed and as his boss I would have told him he had to a long time ago.
 
lilcurt said:
I see him get compared to Arteta a lot. One thing Arteta always consistently maintained was a style of play, even when he didn't have the players to get the best results with it. You could also see him visible working with the club to try and instil a culture.

ETH seems to have thrown away his principles to try and get instant rewards but still failed.
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"More of the same from Mikel Arteta’s non-existent attacking play
If the Arsenal manager loses his job this season, it will be because of games like this: where Arsenal have all of the ball and none of the ideas" - article in 2021

"I find it hard to understand how we play right now. Are more of a counter-attacking team or a possession based team? Because arteta mentions how he wants his players to pressurise opponents higher up the pitch maintain possession, but I hardly saw that this season. All I saw was an arsenal team that sat back and hit our opponents with a counter with the likes of saka, esr or pepe running down the channels." - from the gunners reddit 3 years ago

Just type in Arteta lack of style of play and you'll see a bunch of articles and reddit posts complaining about Arsenal's lack of play previous to last season. Not saying EtH and Arteta are a 1 for 1 in what they are doing but there was a reason why a large part of their fanbase wanted him gone at one point.
 
Cassidy said:
I never argued to keep Ten Hag. Learn to read. I said we NEED to fix the structure and DOF BEFORE we change the manager. Key point being I am not opposed to changing the manager. I am opposed to the timing and order of its execution
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You’re telling me to learn how to read when your reading comprehension got your arguing down a point that wasn’t being contested. Odd.

I’ve already said structural and managerial change aren’t mutually exclusive. Managerial change can be actioned right away without hasty long-term commitment. Salvaging something out of this season will enable long-term change by alleviating financial pressures and restrictions the club is dealing with - but just as important - Ten Hag is awful.
 
Wolfbot said:
Our team would be absolutely horrible without those very players as things stand. Granted Rashford has been terrible this season but he was a huge part of the reason we did alright last season. Bruno is our only real creative player and works hard as well, gets a lot of stick that I think is undeserved and I think he would thrive in a better team. Shaw often stands out for his touch and ability to pass, way above the standard of pretty much our entire team.

If we could guarantee we'd get better players in than them fair enough but that's unlikely. Basically saying we'd be better off without our three of our best players from the last few seasons, that doesn't really make sense to me.
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Bruno is our only creative player, exactly what is he creating? I watch in awe at his stamina and never missing a game but please this creation bit has me confused. Our displays since the won the cup over Newcastle have been little more than chance. Creativity is something we have zero off. Look at the goal difference embarrassing for a United team.
 
I’ve wanted him out for the last 4+ months, and posted as such on here. I’ve said from the start that the longer he is here, the more damage is done that will need to be repaired in the future when we finally get a decent coach.
 
lilcurt said:
I see him get compared to Arteta a lot. One thing Arteta always consistently maintained was a style of play, even when he didn't have the players to get the best results with it. You could also see him visible working with the club to try and instil a culture.

ETH seems to have thrown away his principles to try and get instant rewards but still failed.
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This is the opposite of what he's done though, one of the biggest complaints in this thread is that he's persisting with his system given how it makes us vulnerable to counter attacks.

Last season he was pragmatic, and it did get results, this season he's insisted on a more progressive approach in spite of the injuries, our vulnerability, etc.
 
The Hilton said:
This is the opposite of what he's done though, one of the biggest complaints in this thread is that he's persisting with his system given how it makes us vulnerable to counter attacks.

Last season he was pragmatic, and it did get results, this season he's insisted on a more progressive approach in spite of the injuries, our vulnerability, etc.
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No.

His use of McTominay shows that the plans for the season are dead and we are in survival mode. There's nothing progressive about a lineup with him being there.
 
He has been given exceptional amount of leeway to do whatever he wants, could've experimented a bit to find a working formula, instead he saw shit performances week in week out and STILL went for short term solutions (like McTominay as second striker). As a result, the team has made NO PROGRESS since the beginning of the season.

My biggest criticism at this point is he doesn't even try. Almost seems like he already made his decision on how he wants to play and which players he wants to use, and is surfing on "injuries" excuse all season without making anything to overcome actual issues.
 
Antony and Hojlund are consistent starters for us, both have 0 goals and no assists approaching Christmas. That is a huge indictment of our transfer policy. They are players he has spent big on. Martinez and Mount are both injury prone and not huge improvements, even though Martinez has performed well it can only be considered a qualified success.

At this stage, why not just bring back Ole as an interim and see if he can bring back Greenwood and Sancho from the cold and revitalise Rashford.

We cannot score goals. That is the bottom line.
 
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