Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Every time I think I’m back in on ETH I remember watching the game this last weekend and thinking how Newcastle pinned us back and looked like a Man City side just passing it confidently about the back and midfield. There was not a single moment we looked like we could win the game.

they made us look like a bottom of the league team that’s are busting a gut but getting no where.

I want INEOS in and a fresh start, no more excuses.
 
MadMike said:
You can keep saying that but he binned Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane and the board has backed him up. What makes you think the reason Rashford is still playing is not because of the managers choices but because of some perceived lack of board backing?

Ten Hag is not in the bad place that he is, because of lack of board backing. The opposite. It's because he was given significant control of transfers and proven to be very wasteful, while delivering very poor football and results.
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I know......
 
Ash_G said:
I agree with this, it's a complex issue with multiple things happening at the same time.

I personally cannot understand some of the tactical decisions being made, particularly our willingness to sacrifice control of midfield however I also think we have got a lot of bad apples in the squad and/or too many players who aren't up to scratch. My overall view is that it's easier for someone to give ETH a wakeup call on his tactics/him to change track than it is to assume these players are going to suddenly do better- we've been here many times before. Therefore I still think the right thing is to back ETH provided he acknowledges he needs to change something however I can also see a perspective where if he doesn't do that and the players continue to underperform that you have to look at changing him.
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It’s a tough one. These same players finished 3rd last season and won a cup. Thinking back to last season, there WERE performances where you thought, wow, we do have an identity, it is working. The way we tailed off after the cup final was worrying, but we were telling ourselves it was injuries. He was, however, able to get them to perform earlier in the season. They way he turned Dalot into a decent defender, the management of Garnacho, getting Rashford to perform (now not so much), all of these were good signs.

He still has the best managerial record of any manager post-Fergie.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Well, most did, anyway. If you didn't, then cool. As much as plenty of these players need to be binned off, the tactics/team selections are playing a huge part of our downfall.
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The players are not showing the bare minimum levels of effort. This is an issue that has reared its head regularly. It’s not good enough. The manager may or may not be good enough but that problem in itself is absolutely unacceptable.
 
Berbaclass said:
The players are not showing the bare minimum levels of effort. This is an issue that has reared its head regularly. It’s not good enough. The manager may or may not be good enough but that problem in itself is absolutely unacceptable.
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For sure. Some players are taking the absolute piss, but when it's a collective issue, questions rightly have to be asked of the manager too.
 
Who are these mythical players downing the tools to sack the manager? Are we literally all talking about virtually solely Rashford here?

Asking because the assumption was that the players downed tools for Mourinho and got him the sack but we only have a handful of players who were part of his squad still there, and aside from Rashford and Shaw the others don’t really have a role here, and they were both arguably among our best performers last year, and Rashford has had preferential treatment from ETH ever since he joined and especially this season.

This has been a narrative since Moyes days, ‘these fecking players are letting him down’ and ‘he should be allowed to replace all of them’. ETH has virtually replaced half the team and we don’t really look any better when his players are on the pitch.

It’s also literally manager’s job to get the best out of players, or move on from them if they don’t. It’s easy making an example out of Sancho to show how big of a disciplinarian you are but I’d rather the on the pitch performances were scrutinized more than punctuality and video games history. If your players are not showing any effort then likely you have something to do with it as a manager.

He hasn’t shown a single quality that would lead to me thinking he’s the man to take us forward anyway. Allowing him to replace the entire squad with his own players is calling for a disaster. I don’t disagree with the rebuild but it should be done by a competent manager not this fraud.
 
Robbie Boy said:
For sure. Some players are taking the absolute piss, but when it's a collective issue, questions rightly have to be asked of the manager too.
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I guess there are different schools of thought about this but I don’t believe it should be the responsibility of the manager to motivate players at this level. They should all know what they need to do. I understand that people may have different opinions on that though.
 
Berbaclass said:
The players are not showing the bare minimum levels of effort. This is an issue that has reared its head regularly. It’s not good enough. The manager may or may not be good enough but that problem in itself is absolutely unacceptable.
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Exactly that.
Such lack of effort is completely unforgivable.
 
Berbaclass said:
I guess there are different schools of thought about this but I don’t believe it should be the responsibility of the manager to motivate players at this level. They should all know what they need to do. I understand that people may have different opinions on that though.
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I agree to an extent, yes. But, then again, the great man was a world class motivator who consistently had players playing above their stations. Klopp seems to be similar.
 
DWelbz19 said:
There's a big medium between things being too intense and things being too chilled, though. We're clearly veering too far into the intense side in training and the "cavalier" side in tactics (we're leaking goals and chances at alarming rates).
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The tactics are "cavalier" because they're designed to be proactive - you can't press high without leaving a gap somewhere, and if players don't pull their weight or make mistakes the structure is compromised. Any other proactive manager who wants us to press will require a similar approach, and it'll seem cavalier until the squad unlearns the Jose/Ole mid-block that they're most comfortable with.

As for intense training sessions, De Zerbi (who is a favoured replacement for many on here) is famous for his intense training sessions, and any top manager will expect a high level of intensity in training, as without it we won't be making it through matches. Hell under Fergie we were famous for the intensity of our training sessions and matches.

You may want ETH out, and based on results that's probably fair enough, but those statements, if true, are a damning indictment of the squad and the lax standards imposed on them for the past decade, rather than they are of the manager. No manager that we'd want to bring in would have us training without a great deal of intensity, nor would they put us back into the mid block our players want to get back to.
 
Berbaclass said:
But Ten Hag’s tactics….

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Thank you. It was pretty evident from the match they weren't trying at all.

But for some, it's on ETH and he needs to be sacked. Bring back Ole/Carrick team and see things magically improve .
 
Sarni said:
It’s also literally manager’s job to get the best out of players, or move on from them if they don’t. It’s easy making an example out of Sancho to show how big of a disciplinarian you are but I’d rather the on the pitch performances were scrutinized more than punctuality and video games history. If your players are not showing any effort then likely you have something to do with it as a manager.

He hasn’t shown a single quality that would lead to me thinking he’s the man to take us forward anyway. Allowing him to replace the entire squad with his own players is calling for a disaster. I don’t disagree with the rebuild but it should be done by a competent manager not this fraud.
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Spot on, especially the bit in bold.

The hilarious thing Sarni are the double standards.

Sancho is humiliated and not even allowed into the canteen with his teammates (!) for low defensive application, yet Rashford and Garnacho get a free ride for not tracking back :wenger:

We’re told that he can’t play the Ajax way as he has to adapt to his players, and yet Champions League Varane is relegated to fourth choice centre-back behind Maguire, Lindelof and Evans because they are apparently better on the ball :wenger:

We’re told that Cas was hooked because we need to play better football, yet every DM has been humiliated the same way as him due to the diabolical system that makes our #6 position a poisoned chalice.

Players like Onana, McTominay and Maguire get unlimited chances despite stinking up the gaff every week, not to mention Bruno and Rashford. If this is the outcome of having perfect punctuality and not playing EA FC24 are, then perhaps we need a new litmus test for how selections are made.

This manager is deluded. He thinks he can be a disciplinarian simply due to his position of authority. His logic is that this will create incentives for a full buy-in for his plan. The problem is that the players have been following his plan all season and he has been tactically outclassed almost every single game, even those that we won simply because we have better players.

The fact that only Luton and Sheffield United have conceded more shots than us in the league is a sackable offence by itself.

At this stage, we would do better without a manager than with Ten Hag in charge. His tactics and decisions are sabotaging us far more than any player.
 
It truly amazes me people just say bin all the players. This is a squad Ten Hag has created ffs. It’s on him completely. He can’t coach. It’s clear.
 
BluesJr said:
It truly amazes me people just say bin all the players. This is a squad Ten Hag has created ffs. It’s on him completely. He can’t coach. It’s clear.
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I don’t think anyone wants to bin everyone, do they? Not really. But getting rid of the ones who have stunk for many managers, surely surely shouldn’t get another chance.
 
Are we sure the "dressing room" consists of an even number? I mean 50% of 11 players has got be awkward for someone.
 
Judas said:
I don’t think anyone wants to bin everyone, do they? Not really. But getting rid of the ones who have stunk for many managers, surely surely shouldn’t get another chance.
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Maybe ETH should've read the dossier he was given instead of discarding it and giving players like Martial yet another clean slate.
 
Leaks abound. Something's brewing. He's two to three games/losses away from the chop, the way this is going.
 
bond19821982 said:
Aah, the same shit starts. Man, I just hate each one of them. Seriously hope ETH is given time and he bins all.
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Too intense training sessions could be an issue, though, if the players are left with to little energy for the games. Don't know if that's the case, but too hard sessions should not automatically be taken as "the players are lazy".
 
The 50% of the changing room who ETH has lost should be the ones punted with him. Is there any team in the epl with lazier players than Sancho, Martial and Rashford? About 800k a week in wages there and they couldn’t give a dam. Get rid in Jan along with anyone else who’s not happy. Build a team of players who actually wanna play for United. Not a bunch of prima Donnas
 
Judas said:
Didn’t think it would happen, but fully expect Sancho to play for us again with Ten Hag gone sooner rather than later.
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that would just highlight how pathetically run the club has been he offers nothing
 
Dve said:
Too intense training sessions could be an issue, though, if the players are left with to little energy for the games. Don't know if that's the case, but too hard sessions should not automatically be taken as "the players are lazy".
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Would have some merit to it if they literally didn't down tools on every manager post SAF up to ETH.
 
I’m so fecking sick of these players. ETH might be underperforming but yet again this lot are going to see off another manager because he’s got the audacity to ask them to put a shift in. There needs to be a mass clear out of these bad apples in the summer, hopefully Ratcliffe and co can see this. It’s no use getting rid of one or two because the rot just sets in again before long with the ones that remain. A complete reset is required.
 
Not listening to Rangnick was such a red flag in hindsight. A clown of a manager.
 
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