It's becoming more and more clear he isn't what we thought he was. He isn't this progressive master tactician we were hoping for. And that's okay, really. Plenty of other managers have had good cup runs or won things in smaller leagues like the Eredivisie only to never achieve anything of note again. It was worth taking a punt on him although it was idiotic to have him that much say in transfers. He either massively underestimated the strength of the PL or just has a bad eye for talent. I'm just hoping the club has enough sense to recognize this and we're already looking for a potential replacement. Keeping him just to see what he could do under a different structure is pretty ridiculous. We already know he isn't getting the best out of his players. Why, if we're changing everyhing, shouldn't we go with a better manager as well? We shouldn't be trying that hard just to avoid sacking a manager. That's another thing that's OK to do, every club does it. I will never understand the "we've tried different managers before" line of thinking.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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They certainly are.
As I keep saying; no one is succeeding here unless we get a proper sporting structure in place and the new man is allowed to bin who he wants, even if it's Rashford etc.
Rinse, repeat. Sack Ten Hag, players will be happier because the mean manager is gone. We'll get some results, start to dip as the season ends and the new manager will eventually lose favour. Nothing at this club will ever change until we prioritize signing players with stronger character. Most of these lot are absolute mental midgets. Sancho and his ilk. No ability to respond to adversity on or off the pitch. Style of play, tactics, etc. mean nothing without high character professionals in the dressing room.
ten Hags only chance to convince me that he's the man he'll need to start playing some hungry young players.
Same players finished third and won him a cup so let's be fair
Like who?
Whoever we hire next, the first words out of their mouth better pertain to cleaning house.
If you're hired as manager here and the first thing you say is that everyone starts with a clean slate, we can go ahead and schedule your exit interview in about 18 months after this squad throws you under the bus.
If you're hired as manager here and the first thing you say is that everyone starts with a clean slate, we can go ahead and schedule your exit interview in about 18 months after this squad throws you under the bus.
maybe the fecking players should step up and do their fecking job instead of just jogging around and putting in no real effort
as soon as shit goes south....they tuck their tails
The next three home games are crucial. If he wins at least two of them, it will give him a cushion for the Anfield spanking. If we tumble down the table and crash out of europe, and the season becomes another early write off, heads will drop.
Intense training sessions + "cavalier tactics" (I assume this refers to the 1 man island in midfield) are probably big reasons why we look so shite and knackered every game.
Anyone who isn't downing tools. Martial shouldn't ever start for us, Rashford needs time on the bench, as does Fernandes. Maguire was about to be pushed out of the club last summer, yet he starts.
It can be both. The structure can be bad AND the manager not good enough. Just because you have a bad structure and bad owners doesn’t mean you absolve the manager from responsibility of his results. The Glazers are not setting tactics, managing training, doing man management or making substitutions. The areas that the Glazers touch that affects results are scouting and transfers. The transfer process atMan United has been well documented. The manager has veto power for all proposed transfers. Also, the manager, scouts, Murtagh can all propose transfers. Ten Hag at least agreed to all transfers, and probably proposed the three Ajax players, Malacia and Mount.
I just don’t see how he can’t have some blame here. I’m not saying he must be sacked, but if we lose 3 of the next 4, and badly to Liverpool, should he be sacked then?
He does deserve some amount of blame absolutely for tactical decisions and in game management but as far as the situation as a whole, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because most of these players have form for this sort of thing.
If those are genuinely the issues, then it spells disaster for any manager we bring in that isn't going to default to a mid-block and let them chill out during training.
It is both, I agree.
There's a big medium between things being too intense and things being too chilled, though. We're clearly veering too far into the intense side in training and the "cavalier" side in tactics (we're leaking goals and chances at alarming rates).
I said it from the start of the season. His handling of the Sancho situation and the persistence with the 3-1-6 system is going to backfire. He has lost the dressing room.
Ten Hag’s cultists will continue to portray the egotistic control-freak as a victim of selfish and entitled players. As if Ten Hag has not set them up for failure. As if Ten Hag has not dug his own grave with poor decisions of his own making that he is stubbornly sticking to despite the fact that they are failing miserably.
Indeed, the players are not entirely blameless. But it doesn’t excuse how Ten Hag is primarily responsible for the mess we are in. He needs to go immediately. Many posters on here question why we are not ruthless enough in getting rid of underperforming players but want us to give unlimited chances to a failing manager. Make it make sense, please. And then you wonder why our standards are in the mud
Agreed. I need a fire sale to have any sort of confidence in the next guy. If we roll into next season and Scott McTominay is still expected to contribute I might as well not watch
While ten Hag is generally clueless these days, these same players have let several managers down already, each with very different styles of coaching and man management.
I will not have the players being 'dillusioned' because of 'intense training' since let's face it, some of them are permanently disillusioned and should really have left the club a long time ago.
Also, playing in structured, progressive style requires training. You don't just download the information into your brain and suddenly you're a pressing expert. There's just so many things wrong with these statements.
I will not have the players being 'dillusioned' because of 'intense training' since let's face it, some of them are permanently disillusioned and should really have left the club a long time ago.
Also, playing in structured, progressive style requires training. You don't just download the information into your brain and suddenly you're a pressing expert. There's just so many things wrong with these statements.
Ha “cavalier“
It makes me laugh those comments about his tactics leaving us open. Yeah it’s it the players bombing forward and not tracking back…
And the muscle injuries at the start of the season.
But Ten Hag’s tactics….
The reality is that Ten Hag is 100% right about instilling some discipline and standards.
And the players are 100% right to think his system and tactics are fecking dumb. Because we could all see that in the first 10 minutes of the* season.
And the players are 100% right to think his system and tactics are fecking dumb. Because we could all see that in the first 10 minutes of the* season.
We looked good in pre season
Who are these "ETH cultists" I keep hearing about? With Jose and Ole they were very fecking obvious. But who are they now? I'm actually curious as I'm not seeing any.
People can come in here, slate ETH and not have a single person quote them. If you done it with Ole, you had a pack of wolves labelling you a plastic etc. In fact, the people who blindly backed Ole, are generally the ones in here attacking people for - I know this sounds crazy - backing the manager.
In you actually read the posts, not many are really even backing him; they're pretty much saying that sacking him right now and bringing in some panic interim isn't going to do feck all. If the poll had some more options, I think there would be a better representation of where people are at.
I voted to sack him, but it's only part of what I feel needs to happen. I would maybe keep him if performances massively improved to see how he would do under a better sporting structure. All I know is that I wouldn't sack him until the INEOS situation is sorted and we have a new CEO in situ, if that is indeed the plan. However, if the INEOS situation drags on, then yeah, he may have to go if he tanks the next 4 or 5 games.
As poor as we've been - and we've been awful - we're somehow not far off top four. But, that seems to be a theme with a-lot of post-Fergie managers whereby our league positions tend to be better than our performances.
People can come in here, slate ETH and not have a single person quote them. If you done it with Ole, you had a pack of wolves labelling you a plastic etc. In fact, the people who blindly backed Ole, are generally the ones in here attacking people for - I know this sounds crazy - backing the manager.
In you actually read the posts, not many are really even backing him; they're pretty much saying that sacking him right now and bringing in some panic interim isn't going to do feck all. If the poll had some more options, I think there would be a better representation of where people are at.
I voted to sack him, but it's only part of what I feel needs to happen. I would maybe keep him if performances massively improved to see how he would do under a better sporting structure. All I know is that I wouldn't sack him until the INEOS situation is sorted and we have a new CEO in situ, if that is indeed the plan. However, if the INEOS situation drags on, then yeah, he may have to go if he tanks the next 4 or 5 games.
As poor as we've been - and we've been awful - we're somehow not far off top four. But, that seems to be a theme with a-lot of post-Fergie managers whereby our league positions tend to be better than our performances.
Newcastle dominated us in possession, maybe that's why.
No it’s because the team work ethic is diabolical.
Problem is, one leads to another.
No tactic can work when the players don't work.
But the players won't work when they aren't convinced by the tactic.
The genuine question is how much benefit of doubt? Again, I’m not necessarily saying we have to sack him now, but how many straight losses would you need to agree that we should sack him? 3? 5? 15? Or is it a position in the table? 8th? 12th? 18th?
I agree with this, it's a complex issue with multiple things happening at the same time.
I personally cannot understand some of the tactical decisions being made, particularly our willingness to sacrifice control of midfield however I also think we have got a lot of bad apples in the squad and/or too many players who aren't up to scratch. My overall view is that it's easier for someone to give ETH a wakeup call on his tactics/him to change track than it is to assume these players are going to suddenly do better- we've been here many times before. Therefore I still think the right thing is to back ETH provided he acknowledges he needs to change something however I can also see a perspective where if he doesn't do that and the players continue to underperform that you have to look at changing him.
I don’t know. What I do know is that the Glazers shouldn’t be making the decisions as they have proven to be incompetent and incapable.
Tbf, we've always blamed managers for players workrate, so fair is fair.
We?
Yup, there are a number of things that need to be sorted if the next man has any chance at succeeding. But, in a lot of ways, ETH has made the rod for his own back. As yourself and @DSG pointed out, his tactical decisions etc. have been extremely questionable and playing as we are, 18-months into his tenure, raises huge red flags.
Well, most did, anyway. If you didn't, then cool. As much as plenty of these players need to be binned off, the tactics/team selections are playing a huge part of our downfall.
You can keep saying that but he binned Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane and the board has backed him up. What makes you think the reason Rashford is still playing not because of the manager's choices but because of some perceived lack of board backing?
Ten Hag is not in the bad place that he is, because of lack of board backing. The opposite. It's because he was given significant control of transfers and proven to be very wasteful, while delivering very poor football and results. Hhe's failing both as a coach and as manager.
EDIT: And for the record, I disagree that managers should just get to bin whoever they want, if by bin we mean sell. That is still giving them too much power. Their opinion should be an input, but their views should coincide with the DoF who should be responsible for the squad. Ultimately if the DoF thinks that the players are good enough but it's the coach who isn't delivering to the standard, then the coach gets the sack. No manager goes into a club and gets support from the board to sell the star players, before he has proven that he knows what he is doing himself.
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