Just the way you're even phrasing things, calling the manager a dickhead without having a clue what is actually going on, and saying the players are like slaves, ridiculous stuff.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Ah, they also won the "reaching finals" trophy. AND the "finishing high in the league" trophy. A convincing argument.
Reaching Finals FC
This is when you need a director of football to come in and say we back the manager 100%. Players who are not on board can leave.
You get rid of all high-wage players who don't perform consistently (rashford, sancho, varane, casemiro, eriksen, mount, antony, maguire, martial) and bring in young players on decent contracts who are hungry.
You get rid of all high-wage players who don't perform consistently (rashford, sancho, varane, casemiro, eriksen, mount, antony, maguire, martial) and bring in young players on decent contracts who are hungry.
Yeah that bald mf brought them in to treat them like slaves goddammit, no wonder they're against him. /s
You realize the players performance and manager are linked?
I am sorry if I am not meant to be posting here but all rivalries aside as someone loves and breathes football and looks past tribalism this is my honest view:
Its just not only EtH's fault. I mean the poor tactics and the bad team morale and management is on him but the money wasted on transfers is solely not his fault. I see a lot of parallels in Arsenal and how we were and where you are.We wasted a stupid amount (not to mention corrupt dealings) on players like Pepe and spent a lot on people like Torreria, Sokratis etc who never fit the team. I read the stat United faced 95 shots in last 5 games, so did we during Emery's last weeks. I am a match going fan and I remember how dreadful the atmosphere and how glum things were every game. We then moved to Arteta and I will hold my hands up that I was his biggest critic and he had a run of like one win in 10(?) games and 8-9 losses and I was fuming he was still at the club. We were playing god awful football and seeing primeadonnas like Aubameyeng strut about and Ozil being Ozil being toxic, seeing failed garbage players like Soares at RB, Elneny as our DM.......it was horrific.
However this is where the similarities end. The board, more like Josh Kroenke decided enough is enough and invested heavily in the backroom staff. We got Edu in who along with Arteta and the board sat down and made a clear plan. a) ship out the toxic players b) anyone not putting the effort in goes c) ship out any mediocre players. Then we had an exodus leading with Aubamayeng, Ozil, Sokratis, Luiz, Mustafi and so on. When that DID happen people stopped hating on Arteta as he was proving it that he means business. But the most important....MOST important....target was signing young, hungry players. Players who had everything to prove. Granted Arteta lucked into Saliba but everywhere else you look the team is full of hungry young players signed under him. From White to Jesus to Rice to Odegaard to Gabriel. Whereas United have:
a) continued signing players on the wrong side of 30s. I said it at the time (to my Manc mates) that you'd waste £70 million and a load of wages on Casemiro who'll give you one year tops. Then you'll be stuck with another over the hill 32 year old on stupid wages who noone will want. Not only that but some of the fans don't realise this, just the Griezmann thread you had people salivating signing another 32 yr old player on high wages. Absolutely pointless. Compare that to someone like Hojlund, the boy busts a gut every game and I can guarantee it with proper wingers he'll be a match winner. Why aren't United after someone like Mitoma? He'd cost the same but be 10 ten times better in age, resale and value. Absolutely in no way would he ever say no to coming to United.
b) Where United HAVE signed young players they have utterly overspent. Why overspend on Antony or Sancho when you're the only one in for him? Or only one serious enough in for him? Infact this is the advantage, United can turn around to Ajax and tell them to feck off if they're not selling Antony for 50 or 60 million.
c) Keep around the lazy toxic players. I said it last year that your league position, 3rd, was a pretty false one. It relied on one person's purple patch in scoring, once his scoring has stopped you can't buy a goal. And I also said your poor goal-difference reflected where your true position would be this season. And it has been the case. You can never rely on one player's purple patch and think it reflects your true position. Arsenal fans know it from Aubamayeng. When he stopped scoring, we stopped winning and it was obvious we were sh1t and simply getting points because of one player. Why are players like Rashford, who jogs around, Lindelof who's mediocre, Mctominay who I doubt even he knows where he's meant to play, Bruno who whines and does NOT fit the system....tolerated?
d) The elephant in the room....your owners. While, yes, they have provided a lot of money....but its pointless. There is no oversight from them where the money is going, how its being spent. All of us....imagine us running our companies like the Glazers run United. Imagine us handing over millions and not giving a feck how its spent
e) Fan expectations. You guys got to manage your expectations fellas. You guys got to question every signing you make which none of you do. You got to put that pressure on your club. Amarbat was being hailed to the rafters before his signing, he's turned out average when it was obvious a 28 year old who's never been at a top team wouldn't be the next Casemiro. At best he's a squad player for a club like United. Not a main player, which for a club like United is not good enough. Sancho, I can't believe, was being touted as better than Saka when there is no comparison from effort to numbers or performances in the EPL. The pre-season thread debating who's midfield is better re: Utd vs Chelsea vs Arsenal or your pre-season predictions thread which had so many predicting Utd winning the title. This is not meant as a taunt (please believe this) but more that all these unrealistic expectations feed down to the team who crumble. And yourselves who end up being disappointed. Believe me I know this as an Arsenal fan
You have a very good few young players, Martinez, Mainoo, Hojlund, Hannibal, Shaw....I mean this is a very decent spine. What it needs is good buys like say Mitoma, Ferguson etc. Instead of more 32 year olds like Griezmann who'll give you one year and cost an arm or a leg. In truth every good manager needs a good system. EtH will never say no to being handed half a billion dollars but your owners shouldn't be fecking doing that. There should be a proper DOF with clear aims from transfers to signings.
When all is said and done, despite the rivalry I'd rather United win the league than any of the fake, cheating, scummy plastic clubs. So my post I hope is taken as being genuine.
Cheers
Its just not only EtH's fault. I mean the poor tactics and the bad team morale and management is on him but the money wasted on transfers is solely not his fault. I see a lot of parallels in Arsenal and how we were and where you are.We wasted a stupid amount (not to mention corrupt dealings) on players like Pepe and spent a lot on people like Torreria, Sokratis etc who never fit the team. I read the stat United faced 95 shots in last 5 games, so did we during Emery's last weeks. I am a match going fan and I remember how dreadful the atmosphere and how glum things were every game. We then moved to Arteta and I will hold my hands up that I was his biggest critic and he had a run of like one win in 10(?) games and 8-9 losses and I was fuming he was still at the club. We were playing god awful football and seeing primeadonnas like Aubameyeng strut about and Ozil being Ozil being toxic, seeing failed garbage players like Soares at RB, Elneny as our DM.......it was horrific.
However this is where the similarities end. The board, more like Josh Kroenke decided enough is enough and invested heavily in the backroom staff. We got Edu in who along with Arteta and the board sat down and made a clear plan. a) ship out the toxic players b) anyone not putting the effort in goes c) ship out any mediocre players. Then we had an exodus leading with Aubamayeng, Ozil, Sokratis, Luiz, Mustafi and so on. When that DID happen people stopped hating on Arteta as he was proving it that he means business. But the most important....MOST important....target was signing young, hungry players. Players who had everything to prove. Granted Arteta lucked into Saliba but everywhere else you look the team is full of hungry young players signed under him. From White to Jesus to Rice to Odegaard to Gabriel. Whereas United have:
a) continued signing players on the wrong side of 30s. I said it at the time (to my Manc mates) that you'd waste £70 million and a load of wages on Casemiro who'll give you one year tops. Then you'll be stuck with another over the hill 32 year old on stupid wages who noone will want. Not only that but some of the fans don't realise this, just the Griezmann thread you had people salivating signing another 32 yr old player on high wages. Absolutely pointless. Compare that to someone like Hojlund, the boy busts a gut every game and I can guarantee it with proper wingers he'll be a match winner. Why aren't United after someone like Mitoma? He'd cost the same but be 10 ten times better in age, resale and value. Absolutely in no way would he ever say no to coming to United.
b) Where United HAVE signed young players they have utterly overspent. Why overspend on Antony or Sancho when you're the only one in for him? Or only one serious enough in for him? Infact this is the advantage, United can turn around to Ajax and tell them to feck off if they're not selling Antony for 50 or 60 million.
c) Keep around the lazy toxic players. I said it last year that your league position, 3rd, was a pretty false one. It relied on one person's purple patch in scoring, once his scoring has stopped you can't buy a goal. And I also said your poor goal-difference reflected where your true position would be this season. And it has been the case. You can never rely on one player's purple patch and think it reflects your true position. Arsenal fans know it from Aubamayeng. When he stopped scoring, we stopped winning and it was obvious we were sh1t and simply getting points because of one player. Why are players like Rashford, who jogs around, Lindelof who's mediocre, Mctominay who I doubt even he knows where he's meant to play, Bruno who whines and does NOT fit the system....tolerated?
d) The elephant in the room....your owners. While, yes, they have provided a lot of money....but its pointless. There is no oversight from them where the money is going, how its being spent. All of us....imagine us running our companies like the Glazers run United. Imagine us handing over millions and not giving a feck how its spent
e) Fan expectations. You guys got to manage your expectations fellas. You guys got to question every signing you make which none of you do. You got to put that pressure on your club. Amarbat was being hailed to the rafters before his signing, he's turned out average when it was obvious a 28 year old who's never been at a top team wouldn't be the next Casemiro. At best he's a squad player for a club like United. Not a main player, which for a club like United is not good enough. Sancho, I can't believe, was being touted as better than Saka when there is no comparison from effort to numbers or performances in the EPL. The pre-season thread debating who's midfield is better re: Utd vs Chelsea vs Arsenal or your pre-season predictions thread which had so many predicting Utd winning the title. This is not meant as a taunt (please believe this) but more that all these unrealistic expectations feed down to the team who crumble. And yourselves who end up being disappointed. Believe me I know this as an Arsenal fan
You have a very good few young players, Martinez, Mainoo, Hojlund, Hannibal, Shaw....I mean this is a very decent spine. What it needs is good buys like say Mitoma, Ferguson etc. Instead of more 32 year olds like Griezmann who'll give you one year and cost an arm or a leg. In truth every good manager needs a good system. EtH will never say no to being handed half a billion dollars but your owners shouldn't be fecking doing that. There should be a proper DOF with clear aims from transfers to signings.
When all is said and done, despite the rivalry I'd rather United win the league than any of the fake, cheating, scummy plastic clubs. So my post I hope is taken as being genuine.
Cheers
"Slaves" on hundreds of thousands per week. To kick a ball around. The horrendous takes just keep coming.
There were actually slaves, you know. I think they'd find this rather insulting.
There were actually slaves, you know. I think they'd find this rather insulting.
Said yesterday. It's like clockwork. He's done for if there's any truth in it.
You are bang out of order with this.
No. That has never occurred to me. Tell me more.You realize the players performance and manager are linked?
Oh I agree some of the managers decisions this season have been baffling and the in game management has left a lot to be desired. If things continue like this then he’ll inevitably get sacked, I just don’t want to see some of this group of players get away with it yet again. They need to be sent packing, simple as. Some of this lot are on their 6th-7th chances.
It'd be a bit concerning if we had a director of football who fulled backed a manager who is doing such a poor job.
I know that the manager has fell out with multiple players over the course of his tenure and he’s refusing to adapt to anything that comes his way, particularly the way he sets up the team and how he manages games. Instead of change his principals he just blames the players for not doing their jobs whenever we get hammered.
If this is true then feck the players. Thier getting payed stupid money and they can't even be bothered to run. A bit of adversity and they throw thier toys out the pram. Anyone siding with the players over this is an idiot.
Explain please. Whats wrong in the treatment of Alvaro ?
To be fair, this is called the dreaded vote of confidence and is soon followed by the manager getting sacked.
CEO is leaving. Murtough didn't look like he ever took responsibility. Why expected him to step in now when in truth it's mostly ETH digging his own grave with mostly baffling decision for this season?
I’m bang out of order? What about the people suggesting the player should be happy to just take whatever they’re told just because they get paid a high salary? Is it okay to say someone’s opinion or views don’t matter because they have a high income?This new report about him, "losing half the dressing room" is so typical of the past few managers endings. He's a dead man walking.
Sure. The buck starts with the manager. We had no issues of 'player power' last year when things were rosy.
Calling Ten Hag a dickhead and the players slaves is embarrassing.
You need a time out.
Maybe they should be allowed to have an open discussion with the management and voice their opinions without being told they should shut up and get to work? It’s healthy to have constructive discussions but it seems some of you just want them to shut up and run more.
Same shit happened 2 years ago with Ole. Then Rangnick by the end of December.
So bored of it.
So bored of it.
I said Ten Hag was acting like a dickhead, not he is a dickhead, separate the behaviour from the person, and I said that some of you are wanting them to be slaves instead of employees who have valid cause for concern about the way their boss is handling things so they’ve opened a channel of discussion with him, because they care about the state of affairs, which is the right way to handle the mess we’re in. Calm down with the hyperbole.
The problem is if we're confident that Ten Hag's the right guy for us, the management (DOF, CEO) can tell the players to shut it or find themselves another club.
This requires good football judgement - something our management chain lacks.
Wouldn't be shocked if Ratcliffe has already decided to get rid and bring his own man in. This is PR to lay the groundwork for it.
Maybe you missed the last few managers' tenures. There were ups and downs in all of them. They all ended the same way.
There is one constant, though, in each of them. And it's not the managers, flawed though they've all been.
Pretty sure it's the buck "stops" with the manager, btw.
You said ‘some dickhead manager’. You called him a dickhead.
You’re out of order and looking at your posts it’s you that needs to calm down.
Definitely, he's crossed the line here
The big issue with 'it's the players' (and I have no doubt they play their part in this shambles) is that good coaching and a properly implemented system immediately highlights who is and is not up to the job and completely absolves ten Hag for the fact that it's then on the player who is not executing and the weak links are revealed. In that manner, so much of the criticism and scrutiny he is under dissipates immediately because then, you can see what he's tried to construct and you can see who prevents that from materialising. It would make the masses aware that removing players X, Y and Z and replacing them with upgrades should be the next step in the evolutionary chain. ten Hag would get extra time and patience in this way and perhaps even a season where we do fall short in terms of CL qualifying endeavours and cup exits. Many a club now at the very top of the PL have had exactly that happen to them and been all the better for it.
What has unsettled me personally, is watching this man get outcoached time and again. From the tactical set up to the in-game reactions and counterplanning, he gets outdone routinely and there's no hint of a clever strategy or set of adjustments that turn the game in our favour once the floodgates open. It's all chaos and then invariably the last bit of the game when the opposition are satisfied they can see out the game defensively so shell up, which falsely infers we're getting a footing in the game because "suddenly" we have a lot of the ball. This thread should revolve a lot more around what's going on on the pitch and not all the fluff off it.
Regarding the effort of the players, I still don't see them downing tools. Rashford is in space cadet mode and doesn't count towards anything; ten Hag should know better than to rely on Martial, and outside of that, the players are trying to the best of their ability in a set up that makes things very difficult from the outset. If you do not control midfield, you do not get dictate anything in a game and all your actions will be reactionary, even if you think you're being proactive. This again plays into being out-strategised and outcoached and it's a massive concern.
I'll reserve a paragraph for Bruno because I'm usually neutral or a detractor given the way he usually plays hero ball or bomb! Lately (last 3 games) he has been good and very studious with the ball. The problems have come on the other side of it because of a lopsided system that does not optimise him at all. Knowing his weaknesses, that has to be factored into a plan, you don't just do it anyway and hope for the best. Setting McTominay high and having an inverted triangle in midfield is the opposite of what benefits Bruno. He needs secure midfielders behind him that will lessen his defensive load and get the ball back up to him quickly; he has it more in him to be the single creator and scorer in the half space than he does to help in deep midfield. Any base behind him is better than he and Mctominay working backwards when neither of them are any good at it.
Glad it’s not just me that’s uncomfortable with it
So what if they ended the same way? We keep picking the wrong ones. The constant is either the owners or the one they put in charge of hiring the wrong managers. They are heading out the door or at least some restructring, but it's a separate matter to our current issue.
Crossed a line? Jesus.You should see some of the shit in the player performance threads. Anything goes in there apparently but no ones allowed to question the mighty Ten Hag.
Players complaining the training is too hard speaks volumes.
This is Man Utd, not a Sunday league side. If the training is too intense, bugger off to a lower division.
This is Man Utd, not a Sunday league side. If the training is too intense, bugger off to a lower division.
We had similar reports after the Newcastle LC game as well. We win against Chelsea and Bournemouth, the reports go away. We lose against Bayern and Liverpool, they’re back.
I would be happy to finish 10th and get rid of all these players before sacking the manager. 8 of our starting 11 against Newcastle (Rashford, Martial, Mctominay, Bruno, Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Maguire, Shaw) have all been here for 4 or more years. If we believe that Ten Hag is a good manager, we should back him especially if this toxic dressing room is giving up on another manager. Have a clearout, which is inevitable even if we get a new manager in. But we can’t let overpaid primadonnas call the shots again.
Some big heads need to roll and this time it has to be the players.
I would be happy to finish 10th and get rid of all these players before sacking the manager. 8 of our starting 11 against Newcastle (Rashford, Martial, Mctominay, Bruno, Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Maguire, Shaw) have all been here for 4 or more years. If we believe that Ten Hag is a good manager, we should back him especially if this toxic dressing room is giving up on another manager. Have a clearout, which is inevitable even if we get a new manager in. But we can’t let overpaid primadonnas call the shots again.
Some big heads need to roll and this time it has to be the players.
This (the bolded) is a complete myth, it boggles the mind how people still peddle it. Take just the last two managers and the last 4 years. From the squad Ole inherited from Mou in 2019 to the squad we have now, how many players are still here and in a starting role? It's 2, Rashford and Shaw. Martial is just a bench warmer with the occasional cameo (as he was under Mou), Lindelof the same. Altough now that I think of it, Mou hated Shaw and he wasn't even playing him. All the others were signed afterwards.
I prefer a caretaker manager than letting the rot set in under Ten Hag. The new CEO and DoF will likely want their choice of a manager anyway, so a caretaker will be seen as a signing of the previous administration and unlikely to be retained.
Or it's the same group of players who down tools, leak shit to the press, and whine publicly when the manager is "mean" to them.
I know who I'd rather get rid of. I couldn't care less whether Ten Hag stays or not, by the way.
You should see some of the shit in the player performance threads. Anything goes in there apparently but no ones allowed to question the mighty Ten Hag.
Why contribute to the dross then and not rise above it? Strange way to justify it really. No wonder the forum is a load of fecking shite if that’s the attitude.
They don't know what they are running for? That's why they walk around the pitch uncaring.
Get these clowns out of the club.
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