Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[The Cat]

I get people wanted him in after his Ajax career but my patience is running out now. I don't see what he is trying to build here.

Ok he might not have the players to perform in his desired pattern of play but does every manager?

There are some very good players here surely someone else would get the best out of what he has at his disposal never-mind what his preferred system is.

I think it is just a matter of time now and it won't be long.

 

[Manc Shaman]

I will never forgive him for spending £90 million on a winger who he saw get pocketed by a £15 million left back who he had just brought to the club. Should have been sacked months ago.

 

[Insanity]

The last person to tell you guys we needed wholesale and not cosmetic changes you have have hauled him away.

Another one of those baffling decisions this club has become famous for in the last XI years. Ranks at top along with:

- Giving Ole a permanent contract after a few good games as an interim.
- Then giving him a contract extension when it was clear that he is not going to take us anywhere.
- Before that Jose got a contract extension too when he should have been let go.

We hired Rangnick, a previous Dof, to assess the squad for 6 months and then help the next manager build a squad for the future. But then, in typical United style we abandoned that and gave ETH a carte blanche to bring in his players, while also keeping on all the duds that Rangnick would have identified.

 

[LordSpud]

Another one of those baffling decisions this club has become famous for in the last XI years. Ranks at top along with:

- Giving Ole a permanent contract after a few good games as an interim.
- Then giving him a contract extension when it was clear that he is not going to take us anywhere.
- Before that Jose got a contract extension too when he should have been let go.

We hired Rangnick, a previous Dof, to assess the squad for 6 months and then help the next manager build a squad for the future. But then, in typical United style we abandoned that and gave ETH a carte blanche to bring in his players, while also keeping on all the duds that Rangnick would have identified.

I think all of those decisions were purely made on these 2 criteria: can they get us into Top 4? And will they take the heat off of us? When it was apparent that it was "No", that was the time to get rid.

Jose had won the EL and wanted various players that summer - they hung him out to dry and he self-imploded in the end and we dropped like a stone.

Ole came in and bought a feel good factor getting some surprising results and doing pretty well. They thought they had found the answer on the cheap and offered it to him as soon as they could.

Ten Hag came in and won the first trophy in years AND finished 3rd. Now we are sinking quick and I don't think he finishes the season because there will be a point where it's going to be impossible to get Top 4.

You have to remember with Jose and even Ole Top 4 was a lot less competitive than it is now too. So I think Ten Hag is on a hiding to nothing and sadly I think he knows it.

 

[Stack]

If he drops Rashford, Anthony, McT and Martial for the next game I might start to move out of the sack him section.

 

[Ayoba]

He keeps saying we need to stick to the plan. Wtf is that plan? Is it being too easy to play against, or not having any ability to control possession?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

he wasn’t given a proper transfer window was he

Well he was an interim manager - what would you expect him to do? He did precisely what was required but our board felt uncomfortable hearing the cold hard truth and let him go. Whilst he hasn't the best management record in football, his analysis was a no-holds barred evaluation of how dysfunctional we are as a club.

Carrick was interim for four games that season and that was the best football we seen that year. Carrick changed up the team and played players that deserved to play. Rangnick was let go because his tenure was a disaster. As if a new manager was going to come in and take advice from a guy with the worst win percentage at the club in 50 years.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Maybe ETH will be jammy af and go out in January, buy himself a new Bruno and fluke his way through the next 5 months with 100 penalties and kamikaze football.

 

[Ayoba]

Carrick was interim for four games that season and that was the best football we seen that year. Carrick changed up the team and played players that deserved to play. Rangnick was let go because his tenure was a disaster. As if a new manager was going to come in and take advice from a guy with the worst win percentage at the club in 50 years.

People were frothing at the mouth after the Chelsea game, where we set up defensively. "THATS NOT HOW MANCHESTER UNITED PLAY ITS A DISGRACE"

 

[Robbie Boy]

Carrick was interim for four games that season and that was the best football we seen that year. Carrick changed up the team and played players that deserved to play. Rangnick was let go because his tenure was a disaster. As if a new manager was going to come in and take advice from a guy with the worst win percentage at the club in 50 years.

Ralf was a disaster as a manager. But, it was a disastrous appointment by the club. The bloke had a poor managerial CV and done his best work as a DOF etc. He still made valid points, though.

 

[Dec9003]

Maybe ETH will be jammy af and go out in January, buy himself a new Bruno and fluke his way through the next 5 months with 100 penalties and kamikaze football.

His version of that will be signing a 35 year old Dusan Tadic.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

People were frothing at the mouth after the Chelsea game, where we set up defensively. "THATS NOT HOW MANCHESTER UNITED PLAY ITS A DISGRACE"

Tactically we set up perfectly in that Chelsea game. He even had the balls to drop Ronaldo for it.

We played some brilliant football against Arsenal at OT. Certainly better than anything Rangnick served up that season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

His version of that will be signing a 35 year old Dusan Tadic.

Well, he'll stick the penos and freekicks away. I'm in.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Ralf was a disaster as a manager. But, it was a disastrous appointment by the club. The bloke had a poor managerial CV and done his best work as a DOF etc. He still made valid points, though.

Yeah I don't disagree with a lot of what he said but for me the issue was him spilling his guts in press conferences. You tell everyone that you're desperate to overhaul the squad and smart clubs take advantage of that and bend you over. That's how we end up overpaying for players and wasting money. He didn't exactly set us up well for the transfer window and he also didn't help with the morale around the squad.

 

[TrueRed79]

How can a club that spends £400m to support a manager with players he 100% wanted not be geared towards winning trophies? We don't sign almost all the players he brought in unless he's our manager. Antony, Martinez, Malacia, Onana, Mount and Amrabat wouldn't have even been on our radar if it weren't for him.

Are you actually being serious? The club is happy to finish fourth. A manager will not get sacked for finishing in that position. That's a club not geared towards winning trophies. Don't bring money into this conversation. It's meaningless when you have under qualified people in positions spending or authorising the spending of it. Look at how much money has been wasted on players by several different managers. Im sure he 100% wanted Evans and Hojlund this summer for example, yeah sure. Take your head out of the ground will you.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah I don't disagree with a lot of what he said but for me the issue was him spilling his guts in press conferences. You tell everyone that you're desperate to overhaul the squad and smart clubs take advantage of that and bend you over. That's how we end up overpaying for players and wasting money. He didn't exactly set us up well for the transfer window and he also didn't help with the morale around the squad.

Aye, he probably should have done his assessments in private and kept it that way. As a manager, he was terrible and never should have been appointed in that role.

 

[sullydnl]

A key point to remember regarding the ETH appointment is that came with promises of an overhaul of our recruitment team, with our two most senior scouts having departed literally the month before ETH officially took over, accompanied by god knows how many articles detailing all the ways Murtough was streamlining and modernising the recruitment structure.

Three transfer windows later, I don't think anyone would argue we've seen a postive impact in terms of our recruitment. And you could very easily argue that if ETH is doomed, it's primarily because of that failure to get our approach to recruitment right (again) rather than him having been the wrong appointment as manager in himself.

There's a famous story of Liverpool's recruitment team convincing Klopp to opt for Salah over Julian Brandt. And this season Guardiola noted that the Doku was a signing driven by Txiki Begiristain rather than himself. Who was there at our club to save ETH from himself when it came to, say, spending €95m on Antony?

Saying the manager was well supported because the club gave him €400m to spend on players he wanted is like saying a child was well parented because they were given free reign to spend their parents' money on whatever they liked. Part of the actual support a manager should get is recruitment expertise and structure that saves him from the mistakes you will inevitably get if you ask the manager to do the job of a recruitment specialist. Rather than supporting him, we handed him an expensive shovel with which to dig himself into a hole.

 

[ash_86]

I still favour him but he's on thin ice. I don't know how he doesn't realise the state of midfield with Mct, it's just too open. Just play Koby and Amrobat and stabilize the midfield and leave the attacking to Bruno and front 3. We're cut open evey single game and horrible to watch.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I still favour him but he's on thin ice. I don't know how he doesn't realise the state of midfield with Mct, it's just too open. Just play Koby and Amrobat and stabilize the midfield and leave the attacking to Bruno and front 3. We're cut open evey single game and horrible to watch.

You think he is going to suddenly realize this?

 

[Skills]

A key point to remember regarding the ETH appointment is that came with promises of an overhaul of our recruitment team, with our two most senior scouts having departed literally the month before ETH officially took over, accompanied by god knows how many articles detailing all the ways Murtough was streamlining and modernising the recruitment structure.

Three transfer windows later, I don't think anyone would argue we've seen a postive impact in terms of our recruitment. And you could very easily argue that if ETH is doomed, it's primarily because of that failure to get our approach to recruitment right (again) rather than him having been the wrong appointment as manager in himself.

There's a famous story of Liverpool's recruitment team convincing Klopp to opt for Salah over Julian Brandt. And this season Guardiola noted that the Doku was a signing driven by Txiki Begiristain rather than himself. Who was there at our club to save ETH from himself when it came to, say, spending €95m on Antony?

Saying the manager was well supported because the club gave him €400m to spend on players he wanted is like saying a child was well parented because they were given free reign to spend their parents' money on whatever they liked. Part of the actual support a manager should get is recruitment expertise and structure that saves him from the mistakes you will inevitably get if you ask the manager to do the job of a recruitment specialist. Rather than supporting him, we handed him an expensive shovel with which to dig himself into a hole.

Save him from spending €95m on a player he spent the best part of 3 years coaching? None of those scenarios are in anyway shape or form comparable.

If he's that bad at evaluating talent how the feck can we trust with him anything coming through our own youth system? You can't save someone who can't seem to tell the between his arse crack and his mouth.

 

[ash_86]

You think he is going to suddenly realize this?

I certainly hope so if he would like to continue here atleast. My observation is, he usually goes for certain combinations and sticks to it for quite a few games irrespective of whether it works or not, before he moves onto the next. I don't know why he sticks with it for a while, maybe he doesn't want to accept the mistake or he would like to give it more time to see if it corrects itself. Eitherway, he dosen't have the liberty as the ship is sinking and he has to find a way.

 

[Leftback99]

A key point to remember regarding the ETH appointment is that came with promises of an overhaul of our recruitment team, with our two most senior scouts having departed literally the month before ETH officially took over, accompanied by god knows how many articles detailing all the ways Murtough was streamlining and modernising the recruitment structure.

Three transfer windows later, I don't think anyone would argue we've seen a postive impact in terms of our recruitment. And you could very easily argue that if ETH is doomed, it's primarily because of that failure to get our approach to recruitment right (again) rather than him having been the wrong appointment as manager in himself.

There's a famous story of Liverpool's recruitment team convincing Klopp to opt for Salah over Julian Brandt. And this season Guardiola noted that the Doku was a signing driven by Txiki Begiristain rather than himself. Who was there at our club to save ETH from himself when it came to, say, spending €95m on Antony?

Saying the manager was well supported because the club gave him €400m to spend on players he wanted is like saying a child was well parented because they were given free reign to spend their parents' money on whatever they liked. Part of the actual support a manager should get is recruitment expertise and structure that saves him from the mistakes you will inevitably get if you ask the manager to do the job of a recruitment specialist. Rather than supporting him, we handed him an expensive shovel with which to dig himself into a hole.

They were days when many on here were getting excited that Rangnick was responsible for the changes when he probably had nothing to do with it at all. I remember arguing at the time that not much would change while those at the top were still there. Shuffling deckchairs on the titanic.

 

[Bobcat]

Perhaps the reason why he went with those players is because his first choice targets weren't obtainable. So, he decided to go down the list and sign with players he felt he could trust because he knew them.

Not necessarily shafted by the owners for every choice, but maybe unobtainable for other reasons, like the Barca kid.

Still, his knowledge of players that did work for him previously, has been found wanting in the PL. Perhaps de Jong would have been found wanting too.

That might be, but he was still allowed a transfer budget that most other managers can only dream of, without really strengthening the first team in any meaningful way

 

[sullydnl]

Save him from spending €95m on a player he spent the best part of 3 years coaching? None of those scenarios are in anyway shape or form comparable.

If he's that bad at evaluating talent how the feck can we trust with him anything coming through our own youth system? You can't save someone who can't seem to tell the between his arse crack and his mouth.

It isn't just a question of evaluating talent, it's about the decision to spend that much money.

Thinking Antony was good enough for United is one thing. It may well be a mistake, but it's not a particularly damning one given ETH himself hadn't operated at our level before and managers mis-judge players all the time. SAF said he thought Tom Cleverley was as good as Thiago and Phil Jones could be our best ever player, shit happens.

But once it gets to the point where you're paying what pretty much everyone agreed was clearly above market odds for Antony, there needed to be an ability at the club to say no and point to a viable alternative the recruitment team (who by definition should be better than ETH at identifying talent) had identified.

Or to point to another example, when the De Jong deal didn't work out our recruitment team did put forward an alternative. But that alternative wasn't some young talent of the sort a side like City consistently sign, but rather 30 year old Real Madrid player Casemiro for £60m+. It's not exactly elite player identification.

 

[Member 123428]

Ralf was a disaster as a manager. But, it was a disastrous appointment by the club. The bloke had a poor managerial CV and done his best work as a DOF etc. He still made valid points, though.

The bloke was hired to come in, diagnose the issues with the team and move to a backstage role, whilst accepting he wasn’t the best manager for the role and that we were partially sacrificing the end of a nothing season for long term gain.

The club then ignored all of his findings. Ten Hag makes all the same mistakes, and surely they’ve finally come to the conclusion that Ragnick was on to something years later. Racknicks suggested signings are flying, whilst ours have been poor.

It all smacks of leadership which puts poor people into important positions, who then protect their own back and think short term to keep their jobs. The club hires players who aren’t suitable for the modern game mentally, physically or technically.

I think we probably play the third or fourth worst football in the division.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I have to agree with Roy Keane, this run is a disgrace and until Erik is sacked it is going to continue

 

[Robbie Boy]

The bloke was hired to come in, diagnose the issues with the team and move to a backstage role, whilst accepting he wasn’t the best manager for the role and that we were partially sacrificing the end of a nothing season for long term gain.

The club then ignored all of his findings. Ten Hag makes all the same mistakes, and surely they’ve finally come to the conclusion that Ragnick was on to something years later. Racknicks suggested signings are flying, whilst ours have been poor.

It all smacks of leadership which puts poor people into important positions, who then protect their own back and think short term to keep their jobs. The club hires players who aren’t suitable for the modern game mentally, physically or technically.

I think we probably play the third or fourth worst football in the division.

Yeah agreed. His assessments were bang on and honest. He wasn't a good manager, though. Then again, nothing from his past history suggested he was.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Ralf was a disaster as a manager. But, it was a disastrous appointment by the club. The bloke had a poor managerial CV and done his best work as a DOF etc. He still made valid points, though.

Ralf was brought in to implement a certain playing style but was given a squad that didnt have players that could play that style and the players he did have refused to adadpt and some of the them wouldnt respect him and his staff.

It also didnt help that he wasnt allowed to spend any money in the January window when he asked for a DM and a striker.

 

[edgecutter]

Hopefully Ten Hag makes big changes on Wednesday. He needs to put Amarbat into midfield as an anchor to help Manioo. Also drop the dross (Rashford and Martial), no more chances given to guys that aren't working hard enough.

 

[stefan92]

Ralf was brought in to implement a certain playing style but was given a squad that didnt have players that could play that style and the players he did have refused to adadpt and some of the them wouldnt respect him and his staff.

It also didnt help that he wasnt allowed to spend any money in the January window when he asked for a DM and a striker.

Not allowed to spend is one problem, essentially he wasn't allowed to make any changes to the squad and therefore everybody knew whatever he thought didn't matter in the long run. Which I believe also explains why he made public statements about stuff that probably should have stayed internally. He is a bit of an egomaniac and wanted to make sure that everybody knows that the club isn't acting like he would it to and that the problems are not on him.

 

[Marwood]

Are you actually being serious? The club is happy to finish fourth. A manager will not get sacked for finishing in that position. That's a club not geared towards winning trophies. Don't bring money into this conversation. It's meaningless when you have under qualified people in positions spending or authorising the spending of it. Look at how much money has been wasted on players by several different managers. Im sure he 100% wanted Evans and Hojlund this summer for example, yeah sure. Take your head out of the ground will you.

Why would owners spend like title winners if they had no ambiton to be title winners?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Ralf was brought in to implement a certain playing style but was given a squad that didnt have players that could play that style and the players he did have refused to adadpt and some of the them wouldnt respect him and his staff.

It also didnt help that he wasnt allowed to spend any money in the January window when he asked for a DM and a striker.

Which was why he was a disastrous appointment from the club's perspective. It's clear that very little planning went into appointing him.

 

[Skills]

It isn't just a question of evaluating talent, it's about the decision to spend that much money.

Thinking Antony was good enough for United is one thing. It may well be a mistake, but it's not a particularly damning one given ETH himself hadn't operated at our level before and managers mis-judge players all the time. SAF said he thought Tom Cleverley was as good as Thiago and Phil Jones could be our best ever player, shit happens.

But once it gets to the point where you're paying what pretty much everyone agreed was clearly above market odds for Antony, there needed to be an ability at the club to say no and point to a viable alternative the recruitment team (who by definition should be better than ETH at identifying talent) had identified.

Or to point to another example, when the De Jong deal didn't work out our recruitment team did put forward an alternative. But that alternative wasn't some young talent of the sort a side like City consistently sign, but rather 30 year old Real Madrid player Casemiro for £60m+. It's not exactly elite player identification.

It is a damning one. It was clear that Antony was a bog standard player - the fact that ETH thought he had anything close to star quality is damning as feck.

And also, it's actually okay just to not sign anyone. The market dictates what players are available so it's okay to carry a gap - something a lot of you guys seem to miss. City went the best part of 2 years without a striker because the right one wasn't on the market. Klopp carried a massive hole in his midfield last season because the right ones weren't available. Sometimes you just wait for the right player to be available, make do with the talent already the club (i.e. the £70m winger we brought the summer before, or the 2 prospects we brought before that) rather than spending stupid money for the sake of it.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Racknicks suggested signings are flying, whilst ours have been poor.

I dunno about that. Some of them. He said Gvardiol, Nkunku, Morata, Diaz, Vlahovic, Haaland (source). Of those, Nkunku hasn't played for Chelsea all season due to injury, Morata is doing OK, Dusan Vlahovic hasn't done particularly well at Juventus. Diaz I wouldn't say is 'flying.'

Making signings is hard.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I had a little peek at the Ole thread from this point in his second full season. Unsurprisingly, it's like groundhog day and is a mirror imagine of this. Though, that thread had way more excuses and a rabid wolfpack abusing anyone that questions the manager.

Funnily enough, he kept his head above water just enough, and ended up finishing 2nd and making it to the EL Final.

 

[Lay]

The tide has turned with United fans I know. They were all 100% behind him until this week. They’re fed up with his game management

 

[sglowrider]

Another one of those baffling decisions this club has become famous for in the last XI years. Ranks at top along with:

- Giving Ole a permanent contract after a few good games as an interim.
- Then giving him a contract extension when it was clear that he is not going to take us anywhere.
- Before that Jose got a contract extension too when he should have been let go.

We hired Rangnick, a previous Dof, to assess the squad for 6 months and then help the next manager build a squad for the future. But then, in typical United style we abandoned that and gave ETH a carte blanche to bring in his players, while also keeping on all the duds that Rangnick would have identified.

All perfect hindsight 20/20 observations.

In the height of their respective success points, most of us would not have come up with those points

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

I'm running out of patience too. He just seems completely incapable of making us look like anything resembling a well-organized team at the moment.

We give up this much space against Liverpool, and bring our usual limp-dick attitude, we're gonna get murdered again.

 

[Member 123428]

I dunno about that. Some of them. He said Gvardiol, Nkunku, Morata, Diaz, Vlahovic, Haaland (source). Of those, Nkunku hasn't played for Chelsea all season due to injury, Morata is doing OK, Dusan Vlahovic hasn't done particularly well at Juventus. Diaz I wouldn't say is 'flying.'

Making signings is hard.

Fair enough.

Let me rephrase. How many of them wouldn’t improve our starting 11?

 

[spiriticon]

I do not care how ETH does it, he has to sort the defence out for Liverpool. Pray to the gods if needs be.

If we lose by more than 3, he has to go. We can't be having an annual spanking at Anfield. It's ridiculous and no Utd manager worth their salt should allow it.