Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Andycoleno9 said:
The most worried part about him that after 16 months in charge and 400 mil spent, we play dire football, without clear plan and without established first 11.
And we pay the price for it in every bigger game.
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We do have clear plan. But just as you said, we play dire football. At the moment, it clearly doesn’t work. However, he always sticks to his plan and tried to change personnel based on availability. He has been doing this kind of experiment since the preseason.
I think at least he doesn’t abandon his idea so easily and that’s the good thing. It’s the most difficult procedure now. It might eventually work out, or get worse and worse. From my watch as outsider, it doesn’t get worse and just has been consistently poor instead, but again it doesn’t get worse
I would let him do what he wants to do until the situation is too bad to let him continue.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
The most worried part about him that after 16 months in charge and 400 mil spent, we play dire football, without clear plan and without established first 11.
And we pay the price for it in every bigger game.
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It's funny, but you could replace ETH with any other manager post Fergie, and your argument would be spot on.

The other thing I will say though is that it's hard to have an established first 11 when half your team is injured.

As a sidenote: it's funny how quickly the goal posts have shifted from "ETH is too stubborn/doesn't rotate/is going to run our players into the ground/plays his favorites" to "he has no established first XI/we need more consistency" :lol:
 
city-puma said:
We do have clear plan. But just as you said, we play dire football. At the moment, it clearly doesn’t work. However, he always sticks to his plan and tried to change personnel based on availability. He has been doing this kind of experiment since the preseason.
I think at least he doesn’t abandon his idea so easily and that’s the good thing. It’s the most difficult procedure now. It might eventually work out, or get worse and worse. From my watch as outsider, it doesn’t get worse and just has been consistently poor instead, but again it doesn’t get worse
I would let him do what he wants to do until the situation is too bad to let him continue.
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Sadly it is a plan that every football pundit, and even people who have maybe caught 1 or 2 games in their lifetime, has pointed out does not work and laid out very clear reasons why. Erik is the only man on the planet who seems to think it can work and has even claimed it is working despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Factor in the clear favoritism and the refusal to drop players who are not trying and it is clear we would be far better off with just about anyone else in the dugout. The emporer has no clothes and if you still refuse to see it then you truly have been fooled.
 
Judas said:
This is far less clear cut than Ole. You have the club right now in a total mess, injuries and a manager who at least has some sort of pedigree. Bless Ole, but comparing the two is laughable. Ole was out of his depth from the second he walked in the door but did very well given his ability. It was obvious, and painfully so that we needed to upgrade.

Ten Hag is done, unless something miraculous happens. But god I’m sad how we’re going to see so many players who aren’t even close to the level required play for yet another manager.
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And you just know that these same players will let down the next manager too. Ten Hag is absolutely done here but it's impossible to be excited about a new manager when we still have players who have got every manager they've ever played for sacked.
 
He will be sacked if he keeps persisting with this one DM and two CAMs thing. Just stupid, much like the Mount signing. We get opened up every time we lose the ball which is a fecking lot when you start Rashford, Scott and Dalot.
 
I have a feeling we're in a situation that everything has been discussed to death, but he/we will just keep doing the same things - partially because it's how he want us to play, but also because he has very few options to pick from. I don't expect anything new to happen anytime soon (until we get Casemiro/Mount/Eriksen/Martinez back), so that's probably a good time to take a break from the Caf. In the coming month, I fully expect a number of losses, a narrow win vs Bournemouth and Nottingham and if we can a result vs Villa then Ten Hag will probably manage to hang on by a thread but survive for another month or so.
 
AltiUn said:
And you just know that these same players will let down the next manager too. Ten Hag is absolutely done here but it's impossible to be excited about a new manager when we still have players who have got every manager they've ever played for sacked.
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How have these players let him down? They helped win him a trophy in his first season. He's the one who has implemented a disastrous "style of play" and system that has them completely clueless as to what to do and are shipping in goals and losing games they should win, and barely scraping games they should win comfortably. What have they done? Only the primadonnas in the squad could be accused of letting him down, but he keeps picking Rashford and has dropped the rest. Even then, they aren't downing tools rather being petulant in game. Blaming this entirely on the players has actually gone far enough, Rangnick really had a horrible toxic influence on the fanbase to make them this hostile to players. Not even in Liverpool's darkest days in their wilderness years did the scousers ever become so horrible towards the players. They may be way more cultish as a fanbase than we are, but they at least don't kick the team when they are down and try to encourage them regardless of how good the players are. I bet you when these players all retire we will hear more positives from the old Liverpool players pre-klopp about their fanbases, than the players post-fergie here about our own.
 
As things currently stand I predict we part ways with him a day or so after our visit to Anfield. Not exactly a very out there prediction I admit, but it certainly feels setup for that to be the killer blow.
 
STYLOISRED said:
I'm speaking of Fulham and Aston Villa
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What about them? Are you talking about the fact that fulham had a decent game at anfield? One off games arent a metric of any use. Regards villa, their improvement has been brilliant, and even in summer, people could admire their recruitment. Theyve been slowly building a very good team, and yes theyre not better than our squad on paper but they are very well balanced. I would wait 12-18 months before judging how much progress has been made though. Countless teams have looked to be excelling for a year or so and trailed off badly then.
 
Judas said:
As things currently stand I predict we part ways with him a day or so after our visit to Anfield. Not exactly a very out there prediction I admit, but it certainly feels setup for that to be the killer blow.
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I actually think we’ll get a draw or something against them, it’s the shite teams that get managers sacked.
 
crossy1686 said:
I actually think we’ll get a draw or something against them, it’s the shite teams that get managers sacked.
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Our under pressure managers have a habit of pulling results out of the bag, going all the way back to LvG.
 
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Sarni said:
3-0 against Palace B at home in the League Cup has been given as an example of a superb performance this season, one for the ages.
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What about those 20 minutes against Spurs :drool:

feck it, give him 4 more years
 
Part of management is amending your plans to suit your current players until you can play your ideal way with a squad you’ve built over time.

The excuse he can’t play the way he wants with this team may be true but in order to get to a point where he has his own team he needs to earn it. You can’t just give the man £400mil see very little then hope that one day it pays off.

What EtH is doing right now isn’t part of any bargain you’d make with a manager, here’s £400mil, question marks over each signing, football’s dire but let’s re-up for another 18 months because. . . Sir Alex. . . Time. . .

Based on post-League Cup Fibal performances he does not deserve to be this clubs manager.
 
saflegend said:
It's disheartening to see the calls for his dismissal and the constant demand for immediate success. Let's take a step back and appreciate the journey we're on with him.

Football is a process, and developing a winning team doesn't happen overnight. I believe we should be patient and enjoy the ride rather than succumb to the pressure of wanting instant results. Trusting the process is crucial, especially when it comes to the development of our players.

There seems to be this obsession with winning every game, but is that truly healthy for the growth of our players? We need to recognize that setbacks are a part of the journey, and the focus should be on improvement. Erik ten Hag is working on refining our playing style, and that takes time.

Let's not forget the values that make Manchester United special – a family-oriented club with a rich history. Ten Hag's approach aligns with our core principles, and it's important to maintain that identity. A knee-jerk reaction to every loss doesn't serve the club well.

In the grand scheme of things, success will come, but it's more meaningful when it's achieved through a sustainable and long-term approach. Trust in Erik ten Hag, support our players, and let's remain united in our journey.

Whether we win or lose the next 10 games, it's not the be-all and end-all. What matters most is the progress and development happening under Erik ten Hag.
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Quality wumming
 
Robbie Boy said:
Our under pressues managers have a habit of pulling results out of the bag, going all the way back to LvG.
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Which undermines the common claim over the years that the players have downed tools and are trying to get the manager sacked.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Which undermines the common claim over the years that the players have downed tools and are trying to get the manager sacked.
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Nah, the people who insist that say it’s because they have to try against a rival but they’ll be shit again next week against Fulham, and if we get battered they say ‘I told you they don’t care’.
 
I stopped believing that he’s a good tactician last season when we lost 6-3, 7-0 amongst many other heavy defeats. No great tactician lose in that manner in a single season. A manager who leaves a team gaping in the middle and doesn’t take the midfield seriously, i can’t take that manager seriously.
 
He said yesterday (after the game) that he prefers to dominate by having the ball.:confused:
I wish that he finally decides what exactly he wants, ffs. 2 months ago he said that he wants to play direct.

Also, he wants to dominate with possession with McTominay in the lineup? And investing in Mount who is not a player who will dictate tempo.
 
kaku06 said:
I stopped believing that he’s a good tactician last season when we lost 6-3, 7-0 amongst many other heavy defeats. No great tactician lose in that manner in a single season. A manager who leaves a team gaping in the middle and doesn’t take the midfield seriously, i can’t take that manager seriously.
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I mean Klopp lost 7-2 against Villa. These things obviously happen, but they've been far too frequent under ETH.
 
kaku06 said:
I stopped believing that he’s a good tactician last season when we lost 6-3, 7-0 amongst many other heavy defeats. No great tactician lose in that manner in a single season. A manager who leaves a team gaping in the middle and doesn’t take the midfield seriously, i can’t take that manager seriously.
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He’s a ‘principals’ guy, which means he has one way of playing and if you get hammered he just says the players didn’t do their jobs. It’s like all this nonsense about left and right footed CB’s, like that’s the only way you can play if you’re going to win things.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I mean Klopp lost 7-2 against Villa. These things obviously happen, but they've been far too frequent under ETH.
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I almost made this point earlier, whilst these things can happen it’s the frequency with EtH & this team that are the outlier.

Liverpool play high risk & have certainly lost heavy elsewhere but 6-3, 7-0 and a few 3s in one season just wouldn’t happen elsewhere.
 
crossy1686 said:
He’s a ‘principals’ guy, which means he has one way of playing and if you get hammered he just says the players didn’t do their jobs. It’s like all this nonsense about left and right footed CB’s, like that’s the only way you can play if you’re going to win things.
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If he’d have been in charge of United in 2013 we’d be playing Jones & Evra at CB.
 
kaku06 said:
I stopped believing that he’s a good tactician last season when we lost 6-3, 7-0 amongst many other heavy defeats. No great tactician lose in that manner in a single season. A manager who leaves a team gaping in the middle and doesn’t take the midfield seriously, i can’t take that manager seriously.
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He signed Casemiro, Eriksen, and Mount. So he does take the midfield seriously, the question is, what is he trying to do? He binned off Fred, despite Fred Casemiro being a fairly solid partnership and easily saw off Newcastle in the cup final.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I mean Klopp lost 7-2 against Villa. These things obviously happen, but they've been far too frequent under ETH.
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Every manager is susceptible to a one off but to happen multiple times over the course of a season is alarming for a manager coming with a reputation of being a good tactician.
 
kaku06 said:
Every manager is susceptible to a one off but to happen multiple times over the course of a season is alarming for a manager coming with a reputation of being a good tactician.
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Well yeah, that's what I said. But in isolation, heavy defeats happen to the very best.
 
kaku06 said:
Every manager is susceptible to a one off but to happen multiple times over the course of a season is alarming for a manager coming with a reputation of being a good tactician.
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Maybe that is more to do with the players having no mental strength ?

These players have shown time and time again when things start to go wrong they can totally unravel
 
crossy1686 said:
He’s a ‘principals’ guy, which means he has one way of playing and if you get hammered he just says the players didn’t do their jobs. It’s like all this nonsense about left and right footed CB’s, like that’s the only way you can play if you’re going to win things.
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That's exactly why he's a bid odd. In game he's a principals guy. But for how he sets up the team in training sessions for long periods of the season, he's pragmatic. I don't get the contradiction personally. How can he abandon a high line, change his tactics after the players didn't do well in preseason, but then once he's managing an actual game, he becomes a principals guy? Drives me nuts.
 
In a few instances I think he's been unlucky, and he doesn't appear to have any kind of decent support network around him such as a competent and far-reaching scouting network for example.

However, he isn't what I hoped he'd be (at least not yet). He doesn't seem to be the top drawer tactician I thought he was when he came here, and his in-game management doesn't seem to be very effective.

The players don't seem to be playing for him. His signings are mostly flailing. Partner this with the fact that Ratcliffe coming in may feel incentivized to change the manager and it seems like his days are numbered, particularly if he gives Jim no real reason not to make that change.

I don't think its going to work out.
 
mu4c_20le said:
He signed Casemiro, Eriksen, and Mount. So he does take the midfield seriously, the question is, what is he trying to do? He binned off Fred, despite Fred Casemiro being a fairly solid partnership and easily saw off Newcastle in the cup final.
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Signing some midfield players without having a clue how to use them isn’t taking a midfield seriously. Making a team function with those midfield players being at the heart of it is. If he was taking the midfield seriously we wouldn’t be having a gaping hole in the middle where every other team run through us like it’s an open field.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
He said yesterday (after the game) that he prefers to dominate by having the ball.:confused:
I wish that he finally decides what exactly he wants, ffs. 2 months ago he said that he wants to play direct.

Also, he wants to dominate with possession with McTominay in the lineup? And investing in Mount who is not a player who will dictate tempo.
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Ridiculous really. Comes out with some bull at times. But when he first came he had a reputation for knowing exactly what he wants and coming up with long detailed plans for specific games. I wonder how different things would be if we signed FDJ as that was who he originally wanted. He can dictate a game. We had to settle for Casemiro who is a complete different player. That’s probably the only player we didn’t sign him who he actually wanted but fair enough have a 2nd target but one that is a similar profile. How do you go from FDJ to Casemiro who have completely different styles of play which means the manager has to use them differently.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
Maybe that is more to do with the players having no mental strength ?

These players have shown time and time again when things start to go wrong they can totally unravel
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This is also part of the problem. A large number of these players have been involved in drubbings under a number of managers. Other teams can lose games gracefully, but with us, we generally get absolutely outplayed and/or get absolutely hammered.
 
DJ Jeff said:
There was that and a 5-0 loss to City when they were down to 10 after 15 minutes, in 8 years at the club as his only hammerings. Ten Hags already beaten that.
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He sure has. The frequency has been alarming. We don't just lose, we get destroyed.
 
I just dont rate most of our players. I didn't rate them 18 months ago and its for the same reasons they piss me off now. Theres a point of no return for every manager and were reaching that point I guess but i dont think it'll solve any problems or improve anything.
 
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